1984 Steve Jobs.Access Magazine Interview
No technological advance has more quickly captured the imagination and opened the pocket books of Americans than personal computers. Like the space program that initially nurtured computer research, these new information appliances have come to symbolize America’s return to technological superiority—a place seemingly lost in the past decade to imported televisions, cameras, digital watches and Walkmen.
没有任何一项技术进步能比个人电脑更快地激发美国人的想象力并打开他们的钱包。就像最初培育计算机研究的太空计划一样，这些新的信息设备已经成为美国回归技术优势的象征——在过去的十年里，美国似乎被进口电视、相机、数码手表和随身听所取代。
Mirroring this resurgence, a new lifestyle has grown up around the personal computer industry, nowhere more visible than in Silicon Valley, 45 miles south of San Francisco, where prune orchards have been transformed into a fertile crescent of research and development. The Valley is a strange blend of workaholism and conspicuous consumption, hot tubs and traffic jams. Technological vision and rivalry are so intertwined that local residents call the place Silicon Gulch.
与这种复苏相呼应的是，一种新的生活方式已经围绕个人计算机行业发展起来，在旧金山以南 45 英里处的硅谷最为明显，那里的李子果园已经变成了研究和开发的肥沃新月。硅谷是工作狂和炫耀性消费、热水浴缸和交通拥堵的奇怪混合体。技术愿景和竞争如此交织在一起，当地居民称这个地方为硅谷。
No individual has become more a symbol of this land of opportunity than Steven Paul Jobs, the 29-year-old cofounder and chairman of the board of Apple Computer. Jobs, adopted at birth by a middle-class couple in Mountain View, California, was raised on Little Richard, Bob Dylan and technology. In many ways he was a typical—albeit young—product of the counterculture of the ’60s. He experimented with drugs, dropped out of Reed College his freshman year, and only settled down to work after answering a help wanted ad for Atari that promised, “Have fun and make money.” Still in search of higher truths, Jobs quit Atari after a brief stay, journeyed to India and shaved his head. In 1975 he returned to the States and set about building home computers with the brilliant Stephen Wozniak, a friend who had been working as an engineer at Hewlett-Packard.
没有人比 29 岁的苹果电脑公司联合创始人兼董事会主席史蒂文·保罗·乔布斯更能成为这片机遇之地的象征。乔布斯出生时被加利福尼亚州山景城的一对中产阶级夫妇收养，在小理查德、鲍勃迪伦和技术的帮助下长大。在很多方面，他都是典型的60 年代反主流文化的代表人物。他尝试吸毒，大一时从里德学院退学，在回答了雅达利的一个求助广告后才安定下来工作，该广告承诺“玩得开心，赚钱”。乔布斯仍在寻找更高的真理，在短暂停留后离开了雅达利，前往印度并剃了光头。1975 年，他回到美国，开始与曾在惠普担任工程师的朋友斯蒂芬·沃兹尼亚克一起制造家用电脑。
In early 1977, they founded Apple Computer which quickly became one of the dominant forces in the personal-computer field. In 1981 IBM entered the market and the struggle between what Jobs calls “the innovators and the blue suits” was joined. So great was the competition that Apple’s stock plummeted almost 50 points last year, as IBM seemed to be defining the standard in the personal-computer marketplace.
1977年初，他们创立了苹果电脑，迅速成为个人电脑领域的主导力量之一。1981 年，IBM 进入市场，乔布斯称之为“创新者和蓝西装”之间的斗争开始了。竞争如此激烈，以至于去年苹果的股价暴跌近 50 点，因为 IBM 似乎正在定义个人电脑市场的标准。
In January, however, with the introduction of Macintosh, Apple began an aggressive counterattack, heralded by its “1984” TV commercial that portrayed a woman hurling a hammer through a screen image modeled after Orwell’s Big Brother. Jobs claims Apple will sell a half-billion dollars worth—250,000—of Macs this year, a number considerably less than demand, which has exceeded even Apple’s original hopes. Equally inspiring for Jobs is the fate of Apple II, the company’s tried-and-true product, which has walloped IBM’s PC jr. Two million Apple IIs have been sold in the company’s seven-year history, and last April, at a party with the theme “Apple II forever,” the company introduced its new IIc—a portable version of the Apple II that can be operated without a battery pack. Not to be outdone, IBM recently introduced a portable version of its own PC. Once again, the chips will fly.
然而，在 1 月份，随着 Macintosh 的推出，苹果公司开始了积极的反击，其“1984”电视广告预示着一名妇女在仿照奥威尔的老大哥的屏幕图像中投掷锤子。乔布斯声称，苹果今年将售出价值 5 亿美元（25 万台）的 Mac，这个数字远远低于需求，甚至超出了苹果最初的希望。
对乔布斯来说同样鼓舞人心的是 Apple II 的命运，这是该公司久经考验的产品，它已经重创了 IBM 的 PC jr。在公司七年的历史中，已售出 200 万台 Apple II，去年 4 月，在一个主题为“永远的 Apple II”的派对上，该公司推出了新的 IIc——Apple II 的便携式版本，无需操作即可操作 一个电池组。IBM 也不甘示弱，最近推出了自己的 PC 的便携式版本。再一次，筹码会飞起来。
Is the computer business as ruthless as it appears to be?
计算机行业是否像看起来那样无情？
No, not at this point. To me, the situation is like a river. When the river is moving swiftly there isn’t a lot of moss and algae in it, but when it slows down and becomes stagnant, a lot of stuff grows in the river and it gets very murky. I view the cutthroat political nature of things very much like that. And right now our business is moving very swiftly. The water’s pretty clear and there’s not a lot of ruthlessness. There’s a lot of room for innovation.
不，不是这样的。对我来说，计算机行业就像一条河流。当河流快速流动时，里面没有很多苔藓和藻类，但当它变慢并变得停滞时，河里会长出很多东西，而且变得很混浊。我认为这和政治的残酷性非常类似。现在我们的业务发展非常迅速。水还很清澈，没有那么多无情。这条河流中还有很大的创新空间。
Do you consider yourself the new astronaut, the new American hero?
你认为自己是新的宇航员，新的美国英雄吗？
No, no, no. I’m just a guy who probably should have been a semi-talented poet on the Left Bank. I sort of got sidetracked here. The space guys, the astronauts, were techies to start with. John Glenn didn’t read Rimbaud, you know; but you talk to some of the people in the computer business now and they’re very well grounded in the philosophical traditions of the last 100 years and the sociological traditions of the ’60s.
不不不。我本应该成为巴黎左岸一个才华横溢的诗人。但我后来有一些偏航。太空人和宇航员在开始的时候都是技术人员。约翰·格伦没有读过兰波，但假如你现在和一些计算机行业的人交谈，他们都非常了解过去 100 年的哲学传统和 60 年代的社会学传统。
There’s something going on here, there’s something that is changing the world and this is the epicenter. It’s probably closest to Washington during the Kennedy era or something like that. Now I start sounding like Gary Hart.
这个行业正在发生了一些事情，有些事情正在改变世界，这就是震中。在肯尼迪时代或类似的时期，它可能最接近华盛顿。现在我开始听起来像加里哈特。
You don’t like him?
你不喜欢他？
Hart? I don’t dislike him. I met him about a year ago and my impression was that there was not a great deal of substance there.
哈特？我不讨厌他。大约一年前我见过他，我的印象是他没有太多的实质内容。
So who do you want to see…
那你想见谁……
I’ve never voted for a presidential candidate. I’ve never voted in my whole life.
我从来没有给总统候选人投过票，我这辈子从来没有投过票。
Do you think it’s unfair that people out here in Silicon Valley are generally labeled nerds?
你认为硅谷的人通常被贴上书呆子的标签是不公平的吗？
Of course. I think it’s an antiquated notion. There were people in the ’60s who were like that and even in the early’70s, but now they’re not that way. Now they’re the people who would have been poets had they lived in the ’60s. And they’re looking at computers as their medium of expression rather than language, rather than being a mathematician and using mathematics, rather than, you know, writing social theories.
当然，我认为这是一个过时的概念。60 年代甚至 70 年代初可能是这样的，但现在不是那样了。现在，如果这群人生活在 60 年代，他们会成为诗人。他们将计算机视为表达媒介而不是单单一门计算机语言，他们不是只会运算的数学家，就是单单只会理论的那种。
What do people do for fun out here? I’ve noticed that an awful lot of those who work for you either play music or are extremely interested in it.
人们在这里玩什么？我注意到很多为你工作的人要么演奏音乐，要么对它非常感兴趣。
Oh yes. And most of them are also left-handed, whatever that means. Almost all of the really great technical people in computers that I’ve known are left-handed. Isn’t that odd?
哦，是的。而且他们大多数也是左撇子，不管这意味着什么，但我认识的几乎所有真正伟大的计算机技术人员都是左撇子。这不是很奇怪吗？
Are you left-handed?
你是左撇子吗？
I’m ambidextrous.
我左右开弓。
But why music?
但为什么是音乐？
When you want to understand something that’s never been understood before, what you have to do is construct conceptual scaffolding. And if you’re trying to design a computer you will literally immerse yourself in the thousands of details necessary; all of a sudden, as the scaffolding gets set up high enough, it will all become clearer and clearer and that’s when the breakthrough starts. It is a rhythmic experience, or it is an experience where everything’s related to everything else and it’s all intertwined. And it’s such a fragile, delicate experience that it’s very much like music. But you could never describe it to anyone.
当你想了解以前从未了解过的东西时，你要做的就是构建概念脚手架。如果你正在尝试设计一台计算机，你将真正沉浸在数以千计的必要细节中；突然间，当脚手架搭得够高时，一切都会变得越来越清晰，这就是突破的开始。 这是一种有节奏的体验，或者是一种一切都与其他一切相关并且相互交织的体验。这是一种如此脆弱、微妙的体验，就像音乐一样。但你永远无法向任何人描述它。
In 1977 you said that computers were answers in search of questions. Has that changed?
你在 1977 年说计算机是寻找问题的答案。现在这个观点改变了吗？
Well, the types of computers we have today are tools. They’re responders: you ask a computer to do something and it will do it. The next stage is going to be computers as “agents.” In other words, it will be as if there’s a little person inside that box who starts to anticipate what you want. Rather than help you, it will start to guide you through large amounts of information. It will almost be like you have a little friend inside that box. I think the computer as an agent will start to mature in the late ’80s, early’90s.
我们当下的这类计算机是一个工具。他们是响应者，你让它做什么事，它就会做。但下一阶段计算机将作为“代理人”存在。换句话说，就好像那个机箱中有一个小人，它开始预测你想要什么。它不会帮助你，而是会开始引导您浏览大量信息。这几乎就像你在那个计算机盒子里有一个小朋友一样。我认为计算机作为代理将在 80 年代末、90 年代初开始成熟。
You once talked about wanting to have a computer that could sit in a child’s playroom and be the child’s playmate.
您曾谈到想要拥有一台可以放在儿童游戏室中并成为孩子玩伴的电脑。
Forget about the child—I’d like one myself! I’ve always thought it would be really wonderful to have a little box, a sort of slate that you could carry along with you. You’d get one of these things maybe when you were 10 years old, and somehow you’d turn it on and it would say, you know, “Where am I?” And you’d somehow tell it you were in California and it would say, “Oh, who are you?”
忘掉孩子吧，我自己也想要一个！我一直认为拥有一个小盒子真的很棒，一种可以随身携带的石板。你可能会在 10 岁的时候得到这些东西之一，你可以问它“我在哪里？”你会以某种方式告诉它你在加利福尼亚，它会说，“哦，你是谁？”
“My name’s Steven.”“Really? How old are you?”“I’m 10.”“What are we doing here?”“Well, we’re in recess and we have to go back to class.”“What’s class?”
“我叫史蒂文。” “真的吗？你多大了？”“我 10 岁。”“我们在这里做什么？”“嗯，我们在课间休息，我们得回去上课了。”“什么课？”
You’d start to teach it about yourself. And it would just keep storing all this information about you and maybe it would recognize that every Friday afternoon you like to do something special, and maybe you’d like it to help you with this routine. So about the third time it asks you: “Well, would you like me to do this for you every Friday?” You say, “Yes,” and before long it becomes an incredibly powerful helper. It goes with you everywhere you go. It knows most of the raw information in your life that you’d like to keep, but then starts to make connections between things, and one day when you’re 18 and you’ve just split up with your girlfriend it says: “You know, Steve, the same thing has happened three times in a row.”
你会开始告诉它你自己的信息。它会继续存储关于你的所有信息，也许它会认识到每个星期五下午你喜欢做一些特别的事情，也许你希望它帮助你完成这个例行公事。 所以大约第三次它问你：“好吧，你希望我每周五为你做这件事吗？”你说，“是的”，不久它就会成为一个非常强大的帮手。无论你走到哪里，它都与您同在。 它知道你生活中想要保留的大部分原始信息，随后开始在事物之间建立联系，当你 18 岁时，你刚刚和你的女朋友分手了，它说：“你知道吗，史蒂夫，同样的事情已经连续发生了 3 次。”
You grew up in an odd place here, surrounded by all this technology.
你在这里一个奇怪的地方长大，被所有这些技术所包围。
Yes. The guy next door to my parents’ place was doing some of the foundation research on solar cells. Actually, I had a pretty normal childhood. It’s nice growing up here. I mean the air was very clean; it was a little like being out in the country.
是的。我父母家隔壁的那个人正在做一些关于太阳能电池的基础研究。其实，我有一个很正常的童年。在这里长大真好。空气很干净，有点像在乡下。
As a kid, were you already conscious of some sort of social structure forming, that there were people who were in the silicon business and there were people who weren’t?
小时候，你是否已经意识到某种社会结构的形成，有些人从事硅业务，有些人不从事？
Hmmm, no. See, there wasn’t such a thing as the silicon business back in the early ’60s when I was between the ages of 5 and 10. There was electronics. Silicon, as a distinct item from the whole of electronics, didn’t really occur until the’70s.
嗯，没有。看，在我 5 到 10 岁之间的 60 年代初，还没有硅业务这样的东西。这时候有电子产品。而硅作为与电子产品完全不同的项目，直到 70 年代才真正出现。
How did it affect the culture here?
它是如何影响这里的文化的？（硅谷）
Well, Silicon Valley has evolved into the heart of the electronics industry—which is the second largest industry in the world and will soon pass agriculture and become the largest. So Silicon Valley is destined to become a technological metropolis and there are pluses and minuses to that. It’s very sad in a way because this valley was probably the closest thing to the Garden of Eden at one point in time. No more.
硅谷已经发展成为电子产业的中心，电子产业是世界上第二大产业，很快就会超越农业成为最大的产业。所以硅谷注定要成为一个科技大都市，这有好处也有坏处的。从某种程度上说，这是非常可悲的，因为在某个时间点上，这个山谷可能是离伊甸园最近的地方。不会再有了。
Why?
Because now there are too many square miles of concrete and asphalt.
因为现在有太多平方英里的混凝土和沥青。
Does that have something to do with the ruthlessness of the business?
这与商业的残酷有关系吗？
No.不
Then was it because a lot of people realized they could make a fast buck here?
那是因为很多人意识到他们可以在这里快速赚钱吗？
First of all, things happen in increments, right? They don’t happen all at once. But people didn’t start these companies just to make a buck. I mean they started businesses with very romantic notions. It wasn’t just money. Nobody would say to himself, “Jesus, I think next Monday my friend and I are going to start a company so we can make lots of money.”
首先，事情是以增量发生的，对吗？它们不会同时发生。但人们创办这些公司并不只是为了赚钱。我的意思是，他们以非常浪漫的想法创业。不仅仅是钱。没有人会对自己说：“天哪，我想下周一我和我的朋友要开一家公司，这样我们就能赚大钱了。”
No, but you think you’d be the same person today if your aggregate wealth consisted of one Volkswagen van?
不，假如你的财富总和只有一辆大众汽车，你还是今天的你吗?
Obviously not. But that’s sort of a meaningless question.
显然不是。但这有点是一个毫无意义的问题
No, what I’m suggesting is that some people started companies because they were fascinated by the technology and a lot of other people started companies because they thought they could make a buck.
不，我的意思是，有些人创办公司是因为他们对技术着迷，而其他很多人创办公司是因为他们认为自己可以赚钱。
Not the really great ones.
这些人不是真正伟大的。
Then what, if not money, defines the social pecking order out there?
那么，如果不是金钱，那么是什么定义了那里的社会等级秩序呢？
A combination of having pioneered something significant, and having built a thriving organization. The right company, that’s very important. In other words, even though some people have come out with neat products, if their company is perceived as a sweatshop or a revolving door, it’s not considered much of a success. Remember, the role models were Hewlett and Packard. Their main achievement was that they built a company. Nobody remembers their first frequency-counter, their first audio oscillator, their first this or that. And they sell so many products now that no one person really symbolizes the company.But what does symbolize Hewlett-Packard is a revolutionary attitude toward people, a belief that people should be treated fairly, that the differentiation between labor and management should go away. And they built a company and they lived that philosophy for 35 or 40 years and that’s why they’re heroes. Hewlett and Packard started what became the Valley.
开创了一些重要的事业，建立了一个欣欣向荣的组织。对于一个正确的公司，这非常重要。换句话说，尽管有些人推出了好的产品，但如果他们的公司被视为血汗工厂或旋转门，那就不算什么成功。记住，榜样是Hewlett and Packard，他们的主要成就是建立了一家公司。没有人记得他们的第一个频率计数器，他们的第一个音频振荡器，他们的第一个这个或那个。他们现在销售的产品太多，以至于没有人真正代表这家公司。但惠普真正象征的是对人的革命性态度，一种认为人应该得到公平对待的信念，一种认为劳动和管理之间的区别应该消失的信念。他们建立了一家公司，并在35年或40年的时间里奉行这种理念，这就是为什么他们是英雄。Hewlett and Packard开创了后来的硅谷。
What skill do you think you have that allowed you to succeed?
你认为你有什么技能可以让你成功？
Well, you know, there were probably a lot of guys out there sitting in garages who thought, “Hmmm, let’s make a computer.” Why did we succeed? I think we were very good at what we did and we surrounded ourselves by very fine people. See, one of the things you have to remember is that we started off with a very idealistic perspective—that doing something with the highest quality, doing it right the first time, would really be cheaper than having to go back and do it again. Ideas like that.
嗯，你知道，可能有很多人坐在车库里想，“嗯，让我们做一台电脑吧。”我们为什么成功了？我认为我们做得很好，周围都是非常优秀的人。你要记住的一件事是，我们从一个非常理想化的角度出发，做一件最高质量的事情，第一次做对，比回去再做要便宜得多。
Can you be more specific?
你能说得更具体些吗？
No, because that’s as specific as you get. Just general feelings about things, without any experience to back them up.
不，因为这是最具体的。就是对事物的感觉，没有任何经验支持。
They’re not based on, say, “Gee, look what happened to Hewlett-Packard”?
他们不是基于，比如，“天哪，看看惠普发生了什么事”？
No, no, no. We just sort of had these feelings. We started to run the company our way and it turned out things we were doing worked. We never lost sight of how our idealism could translate into tangible results that were also acceptable in a more traditional sense.
不，不，不，我们只是有这种感觉。我们开始按自己的方式经营公司，结果证明我们所做的事情奏效了。我们从未忘记我们的理想是如何转化现实结果的，而这些结果在更传统的意义上也是可以接受的。
You seem to have postured Apple’s image as the last crusade against the IBM-ization of the world.
你似乎将苹果的形象定位为反对世界 IBM 化的最后一次十字军东征。
You know, that’s not quite right. If you froze technology today, it would be like freezing the automobile in 1915: you wouldn’t have automatic transmissions, you wouldn’t have electric starters. You don’t want to see IBM freeze the standards.But the flip side of that is that this industry has matured more rapidly than any other industry in the history of business and there are suddenly things that billion-dollar class companies can do that $100 million or $10 million class companies can’t do. For example, Apple will spend the better part of $100 million this year on research and development, and will spend the better part of $100 million on advertising. Now, IBM will spend that on personal computers alone. And if IBM and Apple invest that money wisely, it will be very difficult for the $10 million or even the $100 million class companies to keep up.
你知道，这是不太对的。如果你今天禁锢了技术，就像1915年禁锢了汽车，那么你就不会有自动变速器，你也不会有电启动器。你不想看到IBM禁锢这些标准。但另一方面，这个行业的成熟速度比商业史上任何其他行业都要快，突然间，十亿美元级公司可以做一些1亿美元或1000万美元级公司做不到的事情。例如，苹果今年将把1亿美元中的大部分用于研发，将把1亿美元中的大部分用于广告。现在，IBM仅在个人电脑上就花费这笔钱。如果IBM和苹果很明智地花费这些资金，1000万美元甚至1亿美元的公司将很难跟得上这样的投入。
Is there any company besides Apple and IBM that could keep up?
除了苹果和IBM，还有其他公司能跟上吗？
AT&T obviously could choose to invest $200 million. General Electric could obviously choose to invest $200 million. The question is will they? Will they take the risk? Do they see promise? Do they have the passion to innovate?
AT&T 显然可以选择投资 2 亿美元。通用电气显然也可以选择投资 2 亿美元。问题是他们会吗？他们会冒险吗？他们看到承诺了吗？他们有创新的热情吗？
Out here there are traffic jams at 7:30 in the morning, even though people in the Valley have this reputation of being laid back…
这里早上7:30会出现交通堵塞，尽管硅谷里的人们有着悠闲的名声…
Oh right, people work very hard here. And I think you have to differentiate between a true workaholic, and somebody who loves his work and wants to work because he gets true satisfaction and enjoyment out of it. The perfect example is the software people who don’t get in until noon but they work until two in the morning. And they like it.
嗯是的，这里的人工作很努力。我认为你必须区分一个真正的工作狂和一个热爱工作并想工作的人，因为他能从工作中获得真正的满足和享受。一个完美的例子是软件人员，他们中午才上班，但工作到凌晨两点。他们喜欢这样。
Don’t you ever wake up in the morning and say to yourself, “There’s no reason for me to work another day for the rest of my life. I’ve made enough money so that I can just have a good time, do anything I want…”
你永远不要在早上醒来后对自己说，“我没有理由在我的余生中再工作一天。我已经赚了足够的钱，所以我可以玩得很开心，做任何我想做的事……”
Well yeah, I suppose some people say that. But the question ignores all the reasons why people do things here. The money is literally a 25 percent factor, at most. The journey is the reward. It’s not just the accomplishment of something incredible. It’s the actual doing of something incredible, day in and day out, getting the chance to participate in something really incredible. I mean that’s the feeling we’ve had. I think everyone on the Mac team would have paid to come to work every day.
是的，我想有些人会这么说。但这个问题忽略了人们在这里做事的所有原因。钱实际上最多占25%。这段经历就是回报。这不仅仅是完成了一些不可思议的事情。这是一个日复一日地做一些令人难以置信的事情的过程，有机会参与一些真正令人难以置信的事情。我是说这就是我们的感觉。我认为Mac团队中的每个人每天都会来上班。
I don’t say this snidely, but that’s a very easy thing for somebody to say who owns 6.9 million shares of Apple stock.
我不会冷嘲热讽地说这些，但对于拥有690万股苹果股票的人来说，这是一件非常容易的事。
Then go ask the rest of them. Do you know how many places Burrell [Smith, Mac’s hardware designer] and Andy [Hertzfeld, the operating-system designer] could go to tomorrow if they wanted to? Sure, they have a lot of money, and they could go work anywhere else they wanted to.
那你就去问问其他人。你知道如果Burrell（Mac的硬件设计师Smith）和Andy（操作系统设计师Hertzfeld）愿意的话，他们明天可以去多少地方吗？当然，他们有很多钱，他们可以去任何他们想去的地方工作。
But here you have a guy like Andy who spends I don’t know how many thousands of dollars renovating his kitchen, and he never cooks a meal in it!
但这里有一个像安迪这样的人，他花了成千上万美元来装修他的厨房，但他从来不在里面做饭！
So what? What’s the point?
那又怎么样？重点是什么？
Well, I’m talking about quality of life. One of the things that strikes me about Silicon Valley is that nobody seems to do anything but work.我说的是生活质量。硅谷给我留下深刻印象的一点是，除了工作，似乎没有人做任何事情。
A lot of people will probably take this analogy wrong, but there are a good number of people who would have loved to have had even the most menial job on the Manhattan Project in Los Alamos and watch those brilliant people work together for that period of time.
很多人可能对这会有些误解，但也有很多人希望在洛斯阿拉莫斯的曼哈顿项目上有一份最卑微的工作，并看着这些杰出的人在这段时间里一起工作。
There are also a lot of people who want to join the Marines.
还有很多人想加入海军陆战队。
No, no. There are moments in history which are significant and to be a part of those moments is an incredible experience. In other words, there are more important things than cooking in your own kitchen.
不，不。历史上有一些重要的时刻，成为这些时刻的一部分是一种不可思议的体验。 换句话说，有比在自己的厨房做饭更重要的事情。
I’m simply suggesting there’s a very interesting relationship in this Valley between work, money and personal life.
我只是想说，在这个山谷里，工作、金钱和个人生活之间有一种非常有趣的关系。
Well, I don’t know what this Valley is. I work at Apple. I’m there so many hours a day and I don’t visit other places; I’m not an expert on Silicon Valley. What I do see is a small group of people who are artists and care more about their art than they do about almost anything else. It’s more important than finding a girlfriend, it’s more important… than cooking a meal, it’s more important than joining the Marines, it’s more important than whatever. Look at the way artists work. They’re not typically the most “balanced” people in the world. Now, yes, we have a few workaholics here who are trying to escape other things, of course. But the majority of people out here have made very conscious decisions; they really have.
我不知道这个山谷是什么。我在苹果工作。我每天在那里待上好几个小时，却不去别的地方；我不是硅谷的专家。我看到的是一小群艺术家，他们对自己的艺术比其他任何事情都更关心。这比找到女朋友更重要，比做饭更重要，比加入海军陆战队更重要，比任何事情都重要。看看艺术家的工作方式。他们通常不是世界上最“平衡”的人。现在，是的，我们这里有一些工作狂，他们当然在试图逃避其他事情。但这里的大多数人都做出了非常有意识的决定；他们真的有。
How quickly did you become a millionaire?
你多快成为百万富翁？
When I was 23, I had a net worth of over a million dollars. At 24, it was over $10 million, and at 25, it was over $100 million.
当我23岁时，我的净资产超过100万美元。24岁的时候超过1000万美元，25岁的时候超过1亿美元。
How did that affect the quality of your dates?
这对约会的质量有什么影响？
My dates? Nothing really changed, because I don’t think about it that much. The people who think about those things a lot I never meet.
我的约会对象？没有什么真正改变，因为我没怎么想。我从来没见过那些经常思考这些事情的人。
Sometimes it’s got to be overwhelming to you that about 10 years ago you were at some festival on the Ganges river and now you’re running a billion-dollar corporation.
有时，你会感到难以承受，大约10年前你在恒河上的某个节日上，现在你经营着一家价值10亿美元的公司。
Yeah, well, OK. What do you want me to say? Give me the possible responses, I’ll pick one.
好吧，好吧。你想让我说什么？给我可能的答案，我会选一个。
Well, I think there are an infinite number of responses. I’m simply suggesting that it somehow relates to Andy Hertzfeld never cooking a meal in his own kitchen.
嗯，我认为有无数的回应。我只是想说，这与安迪·赫茨菲尔德从不在自己的厨房做饭有关。
I don’t know what it relates to. Andy and I are roughly the same age, right? There’s a whole set of things that neither of us has ever done before, you know: neither of us has ever been married before; neither of us has come home at 5 o’clock and hung out by the pool. I mean, there’s a whole set of things. And we’ve chosen, at least in part, to spend a large number of hours and a large amount of our energy in a different way, making a computer.Now other people make things too. Other people put their energy into having a family, which I think is wonderful—I’d love to do it myself—or they put their energy into making a career or making this or making that. We’ve put our energy into making Macintosh over the last two years, which we thought would make a difference to a group of people that we wouldn’t ever really know, but we’ll walk into classrooms and see 50 Macintoshes and we’ll feel good.
我不知道这和什么有关。安迪和我年龄差不多，对吧？你知道，我们两人以前都没有做过一整套事情：我们两人以前都没有结过婚；我们俩都没有五点钟回家，在游泳池边闲逛。我的意思是，有一整套的事情。我们已经选择，至少部分地，以不同的方式花费大量的时间和精力，制造一台计算机。现在其他人也在制造东西。其他人把他们的精力投入到家庭生活中，我认为这很美妙——我很想自己去做，或者他们把他们的精力投入到事业或做这个或那个上。在过去的两年里，我们把精力投入到了制作Macintosh上，我们认为这会对一群我们从未真正认识的人产生影响，但我们走进教室，看到50台Macintosh，我们会感觉很好。
When Apple was starting up, were people always conscious of stock options?
当苹果刚刚起步时，人们是否总是意识到股票期权？
Oh sure. Well, not as much as they are now. Apple was the first company that gave stock options to almost everybody, every engineer, every middle-level marketing guy and so on.
哦，当然。嗯，没有现在那么多了。苹果是第一家向几乎所有人、所有工程师、所有中层营销人员等提供股票期权的公司。
It strikes me that very few people cash in their chips here.
让我吃惊的是，这里很少有人用筹码赚钱。
Some do and some don’t. One of the trends I’ve seen is that once things seem a little stable, once the company has made it over some critical hurdles, some of the people will sell enough of their stock to buy a house or do something which may not mean that much to them, but will mean something, let’s say, to their spouse or to their family, which hasn’t seen enough of them for the last two years. They’ll want to do something to sort of say, “Hey, you know, what I’ve been working on really has been valuable, it really has been worth it and besides my loving it, it has produced something for the family or for both of us.”
有人这样做，有人不这样做。我看到的趋势之一是，一旦事情看起来有点稳定，一旦公司克服了一些关键障碍，一些人就会卖出足够的股票来买房子，或者做一些对他们来说可能不太重要，但对他们的配偶或家人来说有意义的事情，在过去的两年里，他们看得还不够多。他们会想做点什么，比如说，“嘿，你知道，我一直在做的事情真的很有价值，真的很值得，除了我对它的热爱，它还为家庭或我们两人带来了一些东西。”
A lot of analysts and venture capitalists I’ve talked to think you’re absolutely crazy to still have as much Apple stock as you have. Is it a matter of pride?
与我交谈过的许多分析师和风险资本家认为，你仍然拥有如此多的苹果股票，这绝对是疯了。这是骄傲的问题吗？
Well, it’s a lot of things. Certainly, a year ago the stuff was worth, you know, more than twice as much as it’s worth now. Last year, it decreased by about $200 million. I’m the only person I know that’s lost a quarter of a billion dollars in one year.
嗯，这是很多事情。当然，一年前这些东西的价值，你知道，是现在价值的两倍多。去年，它减少了大约2亿美元。我是我所知道的唯一的一个人，在一年内损失了2.5亿美元。
How does that make you feel?
这让你感觉如何？
It’s very character building!
这很能培养一个人的个性！
Article Comments Update
热门标签
Related Articles
1995-04-20 Steve Jobs.Interview with Daniel Morrow
Excerpts from an Oral History Interview with Steve Jobs?Founder, NeXT Computer. 与 NeXT Computer 创始人史蒂夫-乔布斯的口述历史访谈摘录。 Interviewer: Daniel Morrow, Executive Director, The Computerworld Smithsonian Awards Program 采访者丹尼尔-莫罗（Daniel ...1977 Steve Jobs.Interview with The New Yorker
“It’s a domesticated computer.” "这是一台驯化的电脑" Steve’s first appearance in a national publication came in a 1977 issue of The New Yorker. The magazine sent a reporter to the First Annual Personal Computing Expo, held in the New York Coliseum. Most ...1985-09 Steve Jobs.Interview with Newsweek
Steve left Apple in September 1985, after losing a power struggle with CEO John Sculley. The departure was officially a resignation, but Steve considered it a betrayal. A few weeks later, he spoke to Newsweek. 史蒂夫在 1985 年 9 ...1984-05 Steve Jobs.Interview with Michael Moritz
Steve and Michael Moritz, a reporter who would soon switch careers and become a venture capitalist, spoke at Steve’s office at Apple in May 1984. They covered a wide range of topics, including Steve’s thoughts on product design. 史蒂夫和迈克尔·莫里茨（Michael ...2012-04 Walter Isaacson.The Real Leadership Lessons of Steve Jobs
Six months after Jobs’s death, the author of his best-selling biography identifies the practices that every CEO can try to emulate. by Walter Isaacson. 沃尔特·艾萨克森（Walter Isaacson）在乔布斯去世六个月后，作为他畅销传记的作者，确定了每位CEO都可以尝试效仿的做法。 Summary. The author, whose ...