Speaker 1:
Without further ado, let's bring out the Steve I think you all are here to see.
话不多说，让我们请出我想大家此行都是为了见到的那位 Steve。
Speaker 2:
Steve Jobs.
史蒂夫·乔布斯。
Speaker 1:
We are glad you're here.
很高兴你能到场。
Steve Jobs:
I like the Beatles.
我喜欢披头士。
Speaker 1:
Do you like that?
你喜欢那样吗？
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
喜欢。
Speaker 1:
I don't know. We heard you like them. We can pick between Dylan and the Beatles, but just to begin, we want to say, both Walt and I want to say, professionally and personally, we are thrilled you're here. Thank you. After all this time.
我不确定。我们听说你很喜欢他们。我们可以在迪伦和披头士之间二选一，但首先，沃尔特和我想代表职业层面也代表个人层面说，我们很激动你能来。谢谢你，等了这么久。
Steve Jobs:
I am too.
我也是。
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I can imagine.
是啊，我可以想象。
Speaker 2:
Thanks for being here.
感谢你到场。
Speaker 1:
So we're going to start off with kind of an easy one. Just this week, you surpassed Microsoft in market valuation, and we thought you might have a thought or two about that.
那么我们先来一个简单的问题。本周，你们的市值超过了微软，我们想知道你对此有什么看法。
Steve Jobs:
For those of us that have been in the industry a long time, it's surreal. But it doesn't matter very much. It's not what's important. It's not, you know, what makes you come to work in the morning.
对于那些在行业里待了很久的人来说，这一切都不真实。但这并不是很重要。这不是关键。它并不是，让你早晨起床去工作的理由，你懂的。
It's not why any of our customers buy our products. So I think it's, you know, good for us to keep that in mind and just Remember what we're doing and why we're doing it.
这也不是我们的客户购买产品的原因。所以我认为，我们最好铭记这一点，记住我们在做什么，以及为什么去做。
Speaker 2:
But I have to, I just have to ask.
但我必须，我只想问一句。
Steve Jobs:
But it is a little surreal.
但这确实有点超现实。
Speaker 2:
It is a little surreal. And I remember talking to you right when you were coming back to Apple. We talked a number of times. And if I remember correctly, the company was sort of on its way to oblivion.
确实有些超现实。我记得在你重返苹果时我们聊过好多次。如果我没记错，那时公司几乎走向消亡。
Steve Jobs:
Oh, it was on the rocks, yeah.
哦，确实岌岌可危，是的。
Speaker 2:
So, could you ever have imagined something like this? Even though I know market cap isn't why people buy our products or anything. It's just like, What did it feel like when it happened?
那么，你能想象会有今天吗？我知道市值并不是人们购买我们产品的理由。但当那一刻到来时，你的感觉如何？
Steve Jobs:
Well, Apple was about 90 days away from going bankrupt back then, in the early days. It was much worse than I thought when I went back initially, but there were people there who I'd expected all the good people would have left.
嗯，在那时候早期，苹果距离破产只有大约90天。我最初回去时发现情况比想象更糟，但那里仍有一些人——我原以为优秀的人都已经离开了。
And I found these miraculous people, these great people, and I said, why? I tried to ask this as tactfully as I could, but why are you still here? And, you know, a lot of them had this little phrase. They said, because I bleed in six colors.
我遇到了这些了不起的人，这些奇迹般的人，我问：为什么？我尽量委婉地问，为什么你们还在这里？很多人用一句话回答：因为我的血是六色的。
Which was the old six-color Apple logo. And that was code for, because I love what this place stands for, or at least stood for.
那指的是苹果早期的六色彩虹标志。这句话意味着：我热爱这个地方所代表的价值，或至少曾代表的价值。
And that just made all of us want to work that much harder to have it survive and have those values survive and bring it back.
这让我们所有人更加努力地工作，想让公司生存下来，让那些价值延续并重现。
Speaker 2:
So we want to spend most of this session talking about Your thoughts from your really interesting position because you know the conference is sort of about the juncture of technology and media and you're sitting there right at that juncture in a lot of ways.
接下来我们想花大部分时间讨论你在这一独特位置上的想法，因为此次会议聚焦科技与媒体的交汇，而在很多方面你正处于这一交汇点。
I want to spend most of the session talking about where you think things are going in the future. But there have been some controversies lately that we want to ask you about. And I guess I'd start with Flash and your sort of war with Adobe.
我想把这次对话的主要时间放在你对未来走势的看法上。不过最近有些争议我们想请教你。我想先谈谈Flash以及你与Adobe的交锋。
So you published a long Open letter, something like, what did you call it? Thoughts on Flash or something like that. So, you've clearly stated your case there.
你发表了一封长篇公开信，叫什么来着？《关于Flash的思考》之类。在那封信里你已经清楚地阐述了你的立场。
But even if, here's my question, even if everything you say in there is true about its inferiorities, its technology and other things being available to replace it and already replacing it,
但即便如此，我的问题是：即便你在信里说的它的缺陷、以及已有技术可替代它或正在替代它的说法都属实，
Is it really fair or the best thing for consumers who buy, say, an iPad or an iPhone to just be abrupt? In other words, if we're in a transition where there are better things than Flash, why be abrupt and cut off consumers?
对于购买iPad或iPhone等产品的消费者来说，突然间就被切断支持，真的公平或合适吗？换句话说，如果我们正处于有比Flash更好技术的过渡期，为什么要突然行动，让消费者被切断？
Steve Jobs:
Well, two things. Number one, I'll come back in a minute to what really happened there because what you said isn't exactly chronologically correct.
嗯，有两点。首先，我稍后会回到事情的真相，因为你刚才所说的在时间顺序上并不完全正确。
Apple is a company that doesn't have the most resources of everybody in the world and the way we've succeeded is by choosing what horses to ride really carefully, technically.
苹果并不是世界上资源最丰富的公司，而我们的成功之道在于在技术层面上非常谨慎地选择要骑的“战马”。
We try to look for these technical vectors that have a future and that are headed up and technology Different pieces of technology kind of go in cycles.
我们试图寻找那些有前景、正在上升的技术向量；各种技术都会经历周期。
They have their springs and summers and autumns and then they, you know, go to the graveyard of technology. So we try to pick things that are in their springs.
它们有自己的春天、夏天、秋天，然后就——你懂的——进入技术的坟场。所以我们努力挑选还处于春天阶段的事物。
And if you choose wisely, you can save yourself an enormous amount of work versus trying to do everything. And you can really put energy into making those new emerging technologies be great on your platform.
如果你选得明智，就能省去大量工作，而不必什么都做；你可以真正把精力投入到让这些新兴技术在你的平台上表现出色。
Rather than just okay because you're spreading yourself too thin. So we have a history of doing that. As an example, we went from the 5-inch floppy disk to the 3.5-inch floppy disk with the Mac.
而不是仅仅做到“还行”却让自己分身乏术。我们一贯如此。例如，我们把 Mac 的 5 英寸软盘换成了 3.5 英寸软盘。
Speaker 2:
Before other people, right?
比其他公司更早，对吗？
Steve Jobs:
We were the first to do that. We made the 3.5-inch floppy disk popular. Sony invented it and we put it in the first products. And there were some good reasons we did that. We got rid of the floppy disk altogether in 1998 with the first iMac.
是的，我们是首家这么做的。我们让 3.5 英寸软盘流行起来。它是索尼发明的，而我们把它放进了第一批产品里。这样做是有充分理由的。1998 年推出首款 iMac 时，我们彻底取消了软盘驱动器。
We also got rid of these things called serial and parallel ports. And we were the first to adopt USB, even though Intel had invented it. You first saw it in mass on iMacs. And so we have gotten rid of things.
我们还淘汰了所谓的串口和并口，并且率先采用 USB——尽管这是英特尔发明的。你第一次大规模看到 USB 是在 iMac 上。因此我们一直在淘汰旧东西。
We were one of the first to get rid of optical drives with the MacBook Air. And I think things are moving in that direction as well.
我们还是最早在 MacBook Air 上取消光驱的公司之一。我认为整个行业也正朝着这个方向发展。
And sometimes when we get rid of things like the floppy disk drive on the original iMac, people call us crazy.
有时当我们像在原版 iMac 上取消软驱那样去掉某些东西时，人们说我们疯了。
Speaker 2:
Or at least premature, maybe.
或者至少说我们为时过早？
Steve Jobs:
No, they call us crazy.
不，他们说我们疯了。
Speaker 2:
Oh, okay.
哦，好吧。
Steve Jobs:
But sometimes you just have to pick the things that look like they're going to be the right horses to ride going forward. And Flash looks like a technology that had its day, but is really on, is waning.
但有时你必须挑选那些看起来会成为未来正确“坐骑”的东西。Flash 看起来是曾经风光过的技术，但如今真的在衰落。
And HTML5 looks like the technology that's really on the ascendancy right now. And to incorporate Flash into systems is a lot of work. There's no smartphone shipping with Flash on it now, as you know.
而 HTML5 如今则明显处于上升期。把 Flash 整合进系统需要大量工作。正如你所知，目前还没有任何智能手机预装 Flash。
Speaker 2:
But you know that there will be, right?
但你知道总会有的，对吧？
Steve Jobs:
Well, you know, there's going to have been for the last two or three years, and every six months it gets updated. So I'm sure that eventually they will.
嗯，过去两三年里一直都说马上就会有，每隔六个月就会更新一次。所以我确信最终他们会做到的。
And there's a lot of issues with that in terms of battery life and, you know, security and other things. But more importantly, HTML5 is starting to emerge.
但那涉及许多问题，比如电池寿命、安全性等等。但更重要的是，HTML5 正开始崭露头角。
You know, there's been an avalanche of people that have said, we're doing HTML5 video. And the video looks better and it works better and you don't need a plug-in to run it.
你知道，已经有大量人表示“我们正在做 HTML5 视频”。而且这种视频看起来更好、运行更佳，而且无需插件即可播放。
And so while 75% of the video in the web may be in Flash, you know, 25% going to 50% very shortly is also available in HTML.
因此，虽然网络上 75% 的视频可能仍是 Flash，但很快就会有 25% 升至 50% 也能用 HTML 播放。
Speaker 1:
So do you say that to consumers? I mean, besides technology, to consumers.
那你会把这些说给消费者听吗？我是说，除了技术层面，还对消费者说？
Steve Jobs:
I think consumers Outside of the valley and our industry aren't having this issue.
我认为硅谷之外以及我们行业之外的消费者并没有遇到这个问题。
Speaker 2:
Except when they hole up their iPad and they go to a web page and there's like a hole there where a video would be.
除非他们举着 iPad 打开某个网页，结果原本该播放视频的地方却出现一个空洞。
They don't know, they may not know what Flash is.
他们不了解，他们可能根本不知道 Flash 是什么。
Steve Jobs:
Well, you know, there are.
嗯，你知道，确实如此。
Speaker 2:
They don't know, they may not know what Flash is.
他们不了解，他们可能根本不知道 Flash 是什么。
Steve Jobs:
There are holes in some websites, but those holes are getting plugged real fast. You know, the holes that exist now are ads. So I understand that's a problem for some people.
确实有些网站存在空白，不过这些空白正在迅速被填补。你知道，现在留下的主要空白是广告。所以我理解这对某些人来说是个问题。
Speaker 2:
Not entirely.
也不完全是。
Steve Jobs:
Not entirely, but that's the number one holes that are there.
的确不完全如此，但那仍是出现空白的主要原因。
Speaker 2:
And what about the other community that I think is impacted by this, and that's developers, because What I think a lot of the coverage of this Flash issue has overlooked is that yes,
那另一群受到影响的群体——开发者——又如何？因为我认为许多关于 Flash 争议的报道忽略了这样一个事实：是的，
Flash is a video container and there are other video containers that actually have a very rising share, H.264 and the native HTML5.
Flash 是一种视频容器，但还有其他视频容器的份额正在迅速上升，比如 H.264 和原生 HTML5。
It's also a development environment, and there are entire websites, some of them quite beautiful, written on a Flash platform.
Flash 同时也是一个开发环境，互联网上有整站点——其中一些非常精美——都是基于 Flash 平台构建的。
Steve Jobs:
You know, an even more popular development environment was HyperCard, and we were okay to axe that.
你知道，曾经更受欢迎的开发环境是 HyperCard，而我们当时也欣然砍掉了它。
Speaker 2:
It wasn't more popular than Flash, was it?
它不可能比 Flash 更受欢迎吧？
Steve Jobs:
In its day, sure it was.
在它当年确实更受欢迎。
Speaker 2:
On your platform, right?
在你们的平台上，对吧？
Steve Jobs:
No, no, no, no, no. HyperCard was huge in its day, because it was accessible to anybody. So, I mean, you could be a HyperCard developer.
不，不，不，完全不是。HyperCard 在当年非常火，因为任何人都能轻松上手。换句话说，你也可以成为 HyperCard 开发者。
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know about that.
嗯，我不太确定。我对此可存疑。
Steve Jobs:
But, you know, we have over 200,000 apps on the App Store. So something must be going right in terms of attracting developers to our platform.
不过，你知道，我们在 App Store 上已有超过 20 万款应用。因此在吸引开发者到我们平台这一点上，总得承认我们做对了些什么。
Speaker 1:
So your goal, just to finish this up, your ultimate goal is to get rid of Flash or just to move?
那么最后再确认一下，你们的最终目标是彻底摆脱 Flash，还是仅仅转移阵地？
Steve Jobs:
No, see, our goal is really easy. We didn't start off to have a war with Flash or anything else. We just made a technical decision that we weren't going to put the energy into getting Flash on our platform.
不，其实我们的目标非常简单。我们从没想过要与 Flash 或其他什么开战。我们只是出于技术考量决定，不再把精力投入到让 Flash 在我们的平台上运行。
We told Adobe, if you ever have this thing running fast, come back and show us, which they never did, but we think we're not going to use it. And that was it. And we shipped the iPhone and it doesn't use Flash.
我们告诉 Adobe，如果哪天你们能让 Flash 跑得足够快，就回来给我们看，但他们从未做到；于是我们决定不用它。就这样，iPhone 发布了，而它不支持 Flash。
And it wasn't until we shipped the iPad and it didn't use Flash that Adobe started to raise a stink about it. We didn't raise a stink about it. We never mentioned the word Adobe or Flash or anything else. We like Adobe.
直到我们推出 iPad、同样不支持 Flash，Adobe 才开始大张旗鼓地抱怨。可我们根本没有闹事，也从未公开提过 Adobe 或 Flash。我们其实很喜欢 Adobe。
We have a lot of common customers with CS, you know, their creative suite software and things like that. So we weren't trying to have a fight. We just decided not to use one of their products in our platform.
我们和 Adobe 的 Creative Suite 有大量共同客户。因此，我们并非要挑衅；只是决定不在自己的平台上使用他们的某款产品。
And so, you know, they started to say a lot of bad things about us in the press and this and that, and it went on for months.
然而，他们开始在媒体上对我们指指点点、说三道四，这种情况持续了好几个月。
And that's why I wrote thoughts on Flash, was because we were trying to be real professional about this and weren't talking to the press about it. We didn't think it was a matter for the press. And we finally just said, enough is enough.
这就是我撰写《关于 Flash 的思考》的原因。我们本想保持专业，不打算对媒体多言，也不认为此事需要媒体介入。但最终我们觉得不能再沉默了。
We're tired of these guys trashing us in the press over this. And so we wrote down the reasons why, technically, we didn't choose Flash.
我们厌倦了他们在媒体上对我们口诛笔伐，于是把不选择 Flash 的技术原因一一写了出来。
And they are just as true today as they were when we wrote it as they were six months or a year before that.
这些理由放到今天依然成立，和六个月、一年前完全一样。
Speaker 2:
And what would happen... I promise we're going to move on to the next thing you don't want to talk about but... On this Flash thing, it's an open market.
那如果——我保证马上切换话题，但在 Flash 这件事上——市场可是开放竞争的。
You do have competitors, particularly in the smartphone side, and you may have significant competitors in the tablet side. We have a couple of companies showing non-iPad tablets here this week.
你们确实有竞争对手，尤其在智能手机领域；在平板领域也可能面临强劲竞争。本周就有几家公司展示了非 iPad 的平板电脑。
Steve Jobs:
This is America.
这里是美国。
Speaker 2:
This is America, that's right. Well, it's L.A., but it's part of America. What if the market says, hey, you know, it's important enough to us to be able to run, not just these videos, but whole websites.
没错，这里是美国。准确说是洛杉矶，但也是美国。如果市场表示：嗨，对我们来说不仅要看视频，还要跑完整网站，这可太重要了——那怎么办？
You know, there's a great photo editing site, I don't know if you've ever used it, called Picnic. It's a lovely site. It really works like a smooth, slick, native client on your computer.
你知道有个很棒的在线修图网站，叫 Picnic，不知你用过没有？它体验出色，运行起来就像电脑上的原生应用一样流畅。
But it's written in, it's, you know, it's a flash site on the web. I mean, it probably uses other technologies too, but it doesn't work on the iPad. What if people say, You know, the iPad is crippled in this respect.
但它是用——你知道——Flash 写的网页，也许还混用其他技术，但在 iPad 上打不开。如果有人说：在这方面 iPad 功能残缺，那又如何？
Steve Jobs:
Well, you know, I'd say two things. Number one, things are packages of emphasis. Some things are emphasized in a product. Some things are not done as well in a product. Some things are chosen not to be done at all in a product.
嗯，你知道，我想说两点。第一，事物都是重点的组合。在一款产品中，有些功能会被重点突出，有些功能做得不够好，还有一些功能根本被选择不做。
And so different people make different choices. And if the market tells us we're making the wrong choices, we listen to the market. We're just people running this company. We're trying to make great products for people.
因此，不同的人会做出不同的选择。如果市场告诉我们做错了决策，我们就聆听市场的声音。我们只是经营这家公司的普通人，努力为大众打造出色的产品。
And so we have at least the courage of our convictions to say, we don't think this is part of what makes a great product. We're going to leave it out. Some people are going to not like that. They're going to call us names.
因此，我们至少有信念的勇气去说：我们认为这并不是伟大产品所需的一部分，所以我们决定舍弃它。有些人会不喜欢这种做法，还会对我们横加指责。
It's not going to be in certain companies' vested interests that we do that, but we're going to take the heat. Because we want to make the best product in the world for customers.
这么做势必会损害某些公司的既得利益，但我们愿意顶住压力，因为我们想为顾客打造全球最优秀的产品。
And we're going to instead focus our energy on these technologies, which we think are in their ascendancy, and we think are going to be the right technologies for customers. And you know what? They're paying us to make those choices.
相反，我们会把精力倾注在那些正处于上升期、我们认为最适合顾客的技术上。你知道吗？正是顾客为我们的这些选择买单。
That's what a lot of customers pay us to do, is to try to make the best products we can. And if we succeed, they'll buy them. And if we don't, they won't. it'll all work itself out.
许多顾客付钱给我们，就是要我们尽力做出最好的产品。如果我们成功了，他们就会购买；如果不成功，他们就不会，一切自会明朗。
So, you know, so far I'd have to say that People seem to be liking iPads. You know? I mean, we've sold one every three seconds since we launched it. So I don't know how it's going to turn out.
所以，到目前为止，我得说大家似乎挺喜欢 iPad 的。你知道吗？自发布以来，我们平均每三秒就能卖出一台。我也不知道未来会怎样。
Speaker 2:
Takes you three whole seconds to sell one?
卖出一台竟然要整整三秒？
Unknown Speaker:
Can't you do better?
你们就不能更快点？
Steve Jobs:
Right now I'm just worried that it's taken us three whole seconds to make one.
此刻我只担心的是我们制造一台都要整整三秒。
Speaker 1:
Obviously you have shy and retiring opinions about this. You've been emailing a lot lately. This is riveting to a lot of people. I know it sounds silly outside of Silicon Valley, but a lot of people are riveted.
显然你对这件事的看法并不含蓄。你最近频繁写邮件，很多人都觉得很有趣。我知道在硅谷之外听起来有点可笑，但还是吸引了不少人的注意。
What's happened in your communication style? Because you've been emailing people at Valleywag and stuff like that.
你的沟通方式发生了什么变化？因为你还给 Valleywag 等人发过邮件。
Steve Jobs:
He never identified himself as a journalist, but I was working late one night. It actually was like 2 in the morning, I think.
那个人从未表明自己是记者，不过那天我正加班，差不多凌晨两点。
Making a presentation next Monday and I was working on that presentation and this guy starts emailing me these obnoxious emails and I, you know, I'm just enough of a sucker that I want to like straighten this guy's thinking out.
我在准备下周一的演示，这时这家伙开始给我发很惹人厌的邮件。你知道，我就是有点傻，想把这家伙的想法掰正过来。
So I start to, you know, respond to him and he responds back. He's not, you know, he's no dummy and he's responding back and we got into this conversation. It was kind of entertaining.
于是我就回复他，他也回信。他并不笨，回的内容也挺有来头，我们就这样聊了起来，还挺有意思的。
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it was.
是的，确实如此。
Speaker Jobs:
And then he publishes it. So, you know.
然后他就把它发表了，你懂的。
Speaker 1:
Well, a lot of emails are getting published.
嗯，现在有很多邮件被公开。
Speaker Jobs:
Yeah, I know.
是的，我知道。
Speaker 1:
You just like to email now? What's happened?
你现在就是喜欢发邮件吗？发生什么事了？
Speaker 2:
But you are, you are like even just customers, not just that exchange. So they're very short a lot of times.
可是你甚至会这样回复普通客户，而不只是那次交流。你的邮件往往非常简短。
Speaker Jobs:
I've actually always done a bit of that.
事实上我一直都是这么做的。
Speaker 2:
Okay. All right. So you had a prototype of one of your products that was wound up in a bar and you've heard of, have you heard of, has this come to your attention?
好吧。那么你们有一款产品原型机最终出现在一家酒吧，你听说过吗？这件事有引起你的注意吗？
I don't know, because you're the CEO and I don't know whether, you know, lower levels are handling it, but it, and then there was a blog that paid somebody some money.
我不清楚，因为你是 CEO，不确定是不是下级在处理。但后来有一家博客向某人付了一笔钱。
We don't really know the whole story because the investigation, I guess, is underway with the police, but I just, I wanted to I ask you your reaction to sort of a duality about this,
事情的全貌我们并不清楚，因为警方的调查似乎仍在进行。我想请教你对这件事中出现的双重现象有何反应，
because I think there are people in the public and in journalism who don't approve of somebody, of sort of checkbook journalism, if you want to call it that, you know, the way that was done, if what we know is true.
因为我认为公众和新闻界有人不赞成那种“支票簿新闻”——如果可以这么称呼——也就是用钱买信息的做法，如果我们所知属实的话。
And I want to keep stressing that because I don't know that we know the whole thing yet. But on the other hand, then the police go and they don't issue a subpoena, which somebody's lawyers could fight in court about.
我得一再强调，因为我们可能还不了解全部情况。另一方面，警方并没有发出传票——要是有传票，律师可以在法庭上抗辩。
Take this guy's computers, but they go and get a search warrant and they grab them. And one presumes, and again, I don't know, but I know if they took my computer,
他们拿走了那个人的电脑，警方申请了搜查令并直接拿走了。而且有人假设——我也不确定——但我知道如果他们拿走我的电脑，
there's notes and things for many companies and many sources and stories and things that wouldn't necessarily be relevant to whatever the police are looking at.
里面有关于很多公司的笔记、消息来源和稿件，这些内容未必与警方要找的东西相关。
It was just like a giant grab of a journalist's sort of assets of all the background of what that guy was doing.
这就像一次对一名记者所有素材资产的大规模搜刮，把他的背景资料全都拿走了。
Speaker Jobs:
Or a guy's assets at least. You could debate what a journalist is.
或者至少说是那个人的资产。至于他是否算记者，可以讨论一下。
Speaker 2:
We could debate it, but I mean, we think bloggers are journalists, you know. We run a blog, so we think bloggers are journalists. The New York Times runs blogs. The Wall Street Journal runs blogs. I don't think that's much of a debate anymore.
我们可以讨论，但我的意思是，我们认为博客作者就是记者。我们自己也运营博客，所以我们认为博客作者是记者。《纽约时报》有博客，《华尔街日报》也有博客。我觉得这已经没什么可争论的了。
But anyway, the point is, so where do people come down on this? I mean, what do you think? Where do you come down?
但无论如何，关键是，人们会在这件事上站在哪一边？我的意思是，你怎么看？你持什么立场？
Steve Jobs:
Well, I can just tell you what, there is an ongoing investigation by the DA. And I'm not current on it. But I can tell you what I do know.
嗯，我只能告诉你，目前地方检察官正在进行调查。我没有掌握最新情况，但我可以说说我所知道的。
Speaker 2:
Okay.
好的。
Steve Jobs:
One of our employees, you know, to make a wireless product work well, you have to test it. And there's no way to test it in a lab completely. So you actually have to carry them and test them out. And one of our employees was carrying one.
我们的一个员工——你知道，要让无线产品运行良好，就得进行测试。实验室里无法完全测试，所以必须把设备带在身上外出测试。有位员工当时就在携带一部原型机。
And there is a debate as to whether it was left in a bar or stolen out of his bag, but I don't know the answer to that.
至于那部原型机是被落在酒吧，还是从他的包里被偷走，目前仍有争议，我也不知道答案。
And the person that ended up with the phone decided they would try to sell it to Somebody, so they called in gadget and they called Gizmodo.
拿到手机的人决定尝试把它卖给别人，于是联系了 Engadget，也联系了 Gizmodo。
It turned out that the person that got the phone tried to activate it by plugging it into his roommate's computer, a woman, and She saw him evidently destroying some evidence. And she's the one that called the police.
后来发现，那个拿到手机的人把手机插进他室友——一位女性——的电脑里试图激活设备，而她显然看到他在销毁某些证据。报案的人正是她。
And that's why they got the search warrant.
这就是警方获得搜查令的原因。
Speaker 2:
She called the police or she called Apple?
她报的是警还是联系了苹果？
Steve Jobs:
She called the police. And because she didn't want to get implicated, supposedly. I'm just telling you what I've been told. And so the police came and felt that they needed to grab some stuff before it was all Before it all disappeared.
她报了警，据说是因为她不想被牵连。我只是复述我听到的情况。于是警方赶到，认为需要在一切消失之前先扣押一些东西。
And so this is a story that's amazing. It's got theft. It's got buying stolen property. It's got extortion. I'm sure there's sex in there somewhere, you know. And so somebody should make a movie out of this.
所以这是一个精彩的故事：有失窃、有购买赃物、有敲诈勒索——我敢说里面某处肯定还有情色元素。简直该拍成电影。
Speaker 2:
Well, we've got some movie producers and directors here.
好啊，这里就有一些电影制片人和导演。
Steve Jobs:
It was reported that the police broke down somebody's door, which they, to the best of my knowledge, never did. So, it's just this whole thing is very colorful and the DA's investigating it and to my knowledge,
有人报道称警方破门而入，但据我所知他们从未这么做。整件事非常戏剧化，地方检察官正在调查，据我了解，
they have a Somebody from the courts that is making sure that they only see stuff that relates to this case and no other cases. I believe they're taking great pains to do that. And so I don't know where it will end up.
法院指派了专人确保警方只查看与本案相关的资料，不涉及其他案件。我相信他们在这方面非常谨慎。所以最终结果会怎样，我也不知道。
It's really up to the DA.
这一切都取决于地方检察官。
Speaker 1:
So the last question before we get to really easy stuff like Google and about platforms and bigger where things are going. Do you have any comments on what's going on at Foxconn because of all the press around?
在我们进入诸如谷歌、平台以及更宏观走向等较为轻松的话题之前，还有最后一个问题：最近媒体对富士康的报道很多，你对此有何评论？
Steve Jobs:
Oh sure, yeah. We're pretty on top of that. I actually think Apple does one of the best jobs of any companies in our industry and maybe in any industry. of understanding the working conditions in our supply chain.
当然，没问题。我们对此非常关注。实际上，我认为在了解供应链工作环境方面，苹果在本行业乃至所有行业都做得最出色之一。
We're extraordinarily diligent and extraordinarily transparent about it. You can go on our website and read our report that we publish once a year.
我们在这方面极其勤勉，也极其透明。你可以上我们官网查看每年发布的相关报告。
And we go into these suppliers, and we go into their secondary and tertiary suppliers, places where nobody's ever gone before and audited them before, and we're pretty rigorous about it. So I can tell you a few things that we know.
我们不仅走进这些一级供应商，还深入到二级、三级供应商——一些此前从没人审计过的地方——进行严格检查。我可以分享我们掌握的若干情况。
And we're all over this. Foxconn is not a sweatshop. I mean, you go to this place and it's a factory, but my gosh, I mean, they've got restaurants and movie theaters and hospitals and swimming pools and I mean,
我们对此全面跟进。富士康不是血汗工厂。你去那里看，它确实是工厂，但天哪，他们有餐厅、电影院、医院、游泳池，
it's a, for a factory, it's a pretty nice factory. But, They've had, if you count the attempted suicides, 13 so far this year.
就工厂而言，这是相当不错的工厂。不过，今年迄今为止，如果把未遂算上，他们发生了 13 起自杀事件。
And while that is still, they have 400,000 people at this place, so 13 out of 400,000 is 26 per year so far for 400,000 people, or let's say 7 per 100,000 people.
目前园区约有 40 万员工，13 起自杀相当于每 40 万人每年 26 起，或者说每 10 万人 7 起。
That's still under the US suicide rate of 11 per 100,000 people, but it's really troubling.
这个数字仍低于美国每 10 万人 11 起的自杀率，但依然令人深感不安。
Speaker 1:
Right, it's in one place too, it's in one...
没错，而且集中在同一个地方……
Steve Jobs:
Well, you measure it by numbers of people. So we had this in my hometown of Palo Alto. We've had some copycat suicides where high school kids have committed suicide by throwing themselves in front of Amtrak. And it's very troubling.
你得按人数比例来衡量。我家乡帕洛阿尔托也发生过类似的“连锁自杀”，有高中生模仿自杀，跳到美铁列车前，非常令人痛心。
So we're over there trying to understand what's happening and more importantly trying to understand how we can help. Because it's a difficult situation.
因此我们派人过去，既要了解发生了什么，更要找出我们能提供哪些帮助。局面确实很棘手。
They've got a lot of workers who are leaving very poor rural areas, coming to these factories, away from home for the first time, 19 years old.
那里有大量来自贫困农村的工人，第一次离家来到工厂工作，平均年龄 19 岁左右。
They're probably less prepared to leave home than your typical high school student going to college in this country. And so I think there's some real issues there.
他们甚至可能还不如美国普通高中生上大学时那样做好了离家的准备，所以我认为这里面确实存在一些根本性问题。
Speaker 1:
And you all are bringing in psychiatrists or any...
那你们会引入精神科医生或其他专业人士吗……
Steve Jobs:
We're trying to understand right now.
我们目前正处于调研阶段。
Speaker 1:
Okay.
好的。
Steve Jobs:
Before we go in and say we know the solution, we need to understand what the problem is.
在宣称“我们知道解决方案”之前，我们必须先充分了解问题本身。
Speaker 2:
So you have teams, but what kind of folks do you send over? I mean, they have to be some kind of social workers or what do you send over there to find out? Or just lawyers or what?
所以你们派出团队，但你们派过去的是什么人？他们应该是类似社会工作者的角色吗？还是别的什么人去那边做调查？还是说你们只派律师过去？
Steve Jobs:
No, not lawyers.
不是律师。
Speaker 2:
Not lawyers? Okay.
不是律师？好吧。
Steve Jobs:
We send over, first of all, our own people that have been going over there for a long time. And are very familiar with them. And we've hired some outside folks as well.
我们首先派遣的是自己公司长期负责那边事务、非常熟悉情况的员工。同时我们也聘请了一些外部人员。
Speaker 2:
Let's talk about where things are heading. You spent a good chunk of your career fighting a platform war with Microsoft in the early, you know, in the PC, the heyday of the PC era.
我们来谈谈未来的发展方向。你职业生涯中有很长一段时间都在与微软进行平台之争，那是在个人电脑时代的黄金时期。
They won that platform war pretty decisively in terms of operating systems. The Mac is, you know, making a nice comeback, but I mean, basically, they got a much huger share and they do dominate that platform.
在操作系统层面，他们相当彻底地赢得了那场平台之战。Mac 现在虽然重获不少青睐，但基本上，微软拿下了更大的市场份额，确实主导了那个平台。
But now there are new platforms out there. You've done really well on some of them. The really advanced smartphones and now the beginnings of this tablet thing using the same OS. You have other platforms. You have Google.
但如今又有了新的平台。你们在其中一些平台上表现相当出色，比如那些高级智能手机，以及现在用同一操作系统的平板电脑初见端倪。还有其他平台，比如谷歌。
A lot of people consider it to be building multiple platforms. Android, this forthcoming Chrome OS and of course their whole search ecosystem that they have and their app ecosystem around it through the browser.
很多人认为谷歌正在构建多重平台：Android、即将推出的 Chrome OS，以及他们围绕浏览器所打造的搜索生态系统和应用生态系统。
Everything through the browser and through search. And then the social graph, the social networks.
一切都通过浏览器、通过搜索来实现，然后还有社交图谱、社交网络。
Facebook is a platform and it's very big and it's very popular and it runs into controversy and we have Mark coming and we're going to talk to him about it. So, to Karen and I, there's a platform war going on that You're in.
Facebook 也是一个平台，它非常庞大、极为流行，同时也争议不断。马克（扎克伯格）会来，我们会和他讨论这些。所以在我和卡拉看来，你正身处一场平台之战。
You're a big player in it. Google's a player in it. Facebook's a player in it. Do you see it like that?
你是其中的重要参与者，谷歌也是，Facebook 也是。你怎么看？你也认为这是场平台之争吗？
Steve Jobs:
No.
不这么看。
Speaker 2:
Okay.
好吧。
Steve Jobs:
And I never have. I mean, we never saw ourselves in a platform war with Microsoft. I mean, maybe that's why we lost. We always saw ourselves trying to build the best computers we knew how to build for people.
我从来都不是那样看。我们从没认为自己在和微软打什么平台战——也许这就是我们输的原因。我们只是一直想着如何为人们造出我们能力范围内最好的电脑。
That's always what we were trying to do.
这始终是我们的目标。
Speaker 2:
And you never thought about Windows or Microsoft?
那你们从没考虑过 Windows 或微软吗？
Steve Jobs:
Sure we thought about Windows, but we never thought of ourselves in a platform war. We always thought about how can we build a much better product than them. And I think that's how we still think about it.
当然我们考虑过 Windows，但从来没把自己看成是在打平台战。我们想的只是如何造出远比他们更好的产品。我想我们至今仍是这么想的。
Speaker 2:
And how about Google? How do you think about it? Something has evolved and changed in the relationship between your company and Google. Say, compared to the day you introduced the iPhone now. What has happened?
那谷歌呢？你是怎么想的？苹果和谷歌之间的关系已经发生了变化——跟当初你发布 iPhone 的那一天相比，现在有什么不同？
Steve Jobs:
Where are you? Well, they decided to compete with us. And so they are.
你在哪儿？嗯，他们决定和我们竞争，于是他们就在竞争。
Speaker 2:
And in phones? In what? Operating systems?
那么是在手机领域？在什么方面？操作系统吗？
Steve Jobs:
In phones, sure.
在手机领域，当然。
Speaker 2:
And how about PC operating systems with this Chrome thing?
那这款 Chrome 的 PC 操作系统又如何？
Steve Jobs:
Well, again, Chrome is not really baked yet, so we'll see.
嗯，再说一次，Chrome 还没有真正成形，所以我们拭目以待。
Speaker 2:
And browsers? They're competing with you in a number of areas, right? It's not just Android.
那浏览器呢？他们在多个领域都在和你们竞争，对吧？不仅仅是 Android。
Steve Jobs:
Well, in browsers, I think we all contribute browsers to the mix, but IE still has the biggest share and Mozilla and IE together. Dwarf what Google and us do together.
嗯，在浏览器方面，我觉得我们大家都推出了自己的浏览器，但 IE 仍然占最大份额，而 Mozilla 和 IE 合计的规模远远超过谷歌和我们加起来的份额。
Speaker 1:
So talk a little bit about your relationship.
那就稍微谈谈你们之间的关系吧。
Steve Jobs:
And you know, as you know, I mean, Chrome is based on the work that we've done at Apple with WebKit.
你知道的，Chrome 是基于我们在 Apple 所做的 WebKit 工作。
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
是的。
Steve Jobs:
So we took a tiny little open source project and we created what's called WebKit out there.
我们把一个很小的开源项目发展成如今所称的 WebKit。
Speaker 2:
Right.
没错。
Steve Jobs:
And we did an interesting thing for Apple. We put it in open source.
然后我们为 Apple 做了件很有意思的事——我们把它开源了。
Speaker 2:
That is an interesting thing for Apple.
这对 Apple 来说确实有意思。
Steve Jobs:
And we've done a fair amount of it, but this is the thing that's been the most successful. Almost every, well every modern mobile browser is now based on WebKit. Google's in Android.
我们做了不少这类事情，但这是最成功的一例。几乎所有——准确说所有现代移动浏览器如今都基于 WebKit，包括谷歌 Android 的浏览器。
Nokia's, RIM is coming out with one, Palms, obviously as well as ours, and it's the heart of Safari, it's the heart of Chrome, and so WebKit has picked up substantial momentum, and now all websites are testing against it.
诺基亚的浏览器、RIM 即将推出的浏览器、Palm 的浏览器，显然还有我们的浏览器，Safari 的核心就是它，Chrome 的核心也是它，因此 WebKit 获得了强劲的发展势头，如今所有网站都在针对它进行测试。
Every mobile website, but even a ton of desktop websites now, because of Safari and Chrome being based on WebKit, are now testing against it, and it's turning out to have a lot of momentum.
每个移动网站都在测试它，甚至许多桌面网站也因 Safari 和 Chrome 基于 WebKit 而进行兼容测试，事实证明它发展势头十足。
to have much better browsers in the mobile space, I'm a competitor to IE in terms of momentum.
在移动领域拥有更好的浏览器，从发展势头来看，我们算是 IE 的竞争对手。
Speaker 2:
If you take all the WebKit stuff together.
如果把所有 WebKit 浏览器加在一起的话。
Steve Jobs:
Yes, if you take it all together. And in the mobile space, it's number one.
对，如果全部加在一起。在移动领域，它排第一。
Speaker 1:
So let's get back to the relationship with Google. So the basic competition is on these smartphones and these smartphone operating systems. How do you look at them as a competitor and how do you feel about the changing relationship?
好，让我们回到与 Google 的关系上来。你们之间的基本竞争是在智能手机及其操作系统上。你如何看待他们作为竞争对手，以及你对这种关系变化有何感受？
Because it was, you know, Eric was on your board, you had a very close relationship. Can you talk about how you felt happened there besides them competing?
因为当时，埃里克曾在你的董事会里，你们关系非常密切。除了他们开始竞争之外，你能谈谈你当时的感受吗？
Steve Jobs:
Well, they decided to compete with us.
嗯，他们决定要和我们竞争。
Speaker 1:
That's it.
就是这样。
Steve Jobs:
We didn't go into the search business.
我们并没有进入搜索业务。
Speaker 2:
Well, I want to ask you about that in a minute, but you just woke up one morning and discovered they were going to compete with you.
好吧，我待会儿想问你这件事，但你是某天早上醒来才发现他们要跟你们竞争的吗？
Steve Jobs:
Yeah.
是的。
Speaker 2:
Did he call you?
他有给你打电话吗？
Steve Jobs:
No, you know, they started competing with us and got more and more serious.
没有。他们开始与我们竞争，而且愈演愈烈。
Speaker 1:
So how do you look at the competition now? How do you look at the differences between Android and what you're doing?
那么你现在如何看待这种竞争？你怎么看 Android 与你们所做之事之间的差异？
Steve Jobs:
Well, right now, if you look at the smartphone market share, the way people define smartphones is a little funny, but Nokia is still number one.
嗯，如果你看看当前智能手机的市场份额，人们定义“智能手机”的方式有点可笑，但诺基亚仍然排第一。
Speaker 2:
Yeah, but...
是的，可是……
Steve Jobs:
But I know, it's...
但我知道，这……
Speaker 2:
Let's talk about, say, super smartphones.
我们来说说“超级智能手机”吧。
Steve Jobs:
Well, you know, again, everybody does this differently. RIM is number two, we're number three, Google's number four, and Other is number five. So, that's where it is right now.
嗯，你知道，每个人的划分都不同。RIM 排第二，我们排第三，谷歌排第四，“其他”排第五。目前就是这样的情况。
Speaker 2:
Where's Microsoft?
那微软呢？
Steve Jobs:
They're in Other.
他们归在“其他”。
Speaker 2:
Okay. All right. At the moment.
好的，明白。目前如此。
Steve Jobs:
At the moment.
截至目前是这样。
Speaker 2:
And things can change. They're doing a...
情况可能会改变。他们正在……
Speaker 1:
But do you consider...
但你是否认为……
Steve Jobs:
We were zero in, you know, three years ago.
你知道，三年前我们还一无所有。
Speaker 2:
Okay.
好。
Steve Jobs:
So things can change.
所以一切都可能改变。
Speaker 2:
Okay, so those are numbers, but I think what we're trying to get at is...
好的，那么这些只是数字，但我想我们真正想探讨的是……
Speaker 1:
Is there a...
那么有没有……
Speaker 2:
Do you feel betrayed, or what's your relationship with Google, or are you gonna...
你是否觉得被背叛，你和 Google 的关系如何，或者你打算……
Speaker 1:
And also...
还有……
Speaker 2:
No, seriously, I mean, are you gonna...
不，认真地说，我是指，你是否打算……
Steve Jobs:
My sex life is pretty good these days. How's yours?
我最近的性生活相当不错。你呢？
Speaker 2:
It's great. Thanks for asking. It's great.
很棒，谢谢关心，很棒。
Speaker 1:
Don't ask. What is the relationship? You have a lot of things you cooperate in, in maps, in search. Are you going to remove them from the iPhone, for example?
别问了。那关系到底如何？你们在地图、搜索等方面合作很多。例如，你会把他们从 iPhone 上移除吗？
Steve Jobs:
No.
不会。
Speaker 1:
So how do you look at them?
那你怎么看待他们？
Steve Jobs:
We want to make a better product than they do, and we do.
我们想做出比他们更好的产品，而且我们确实做到了。
Speaker 1:
Right.
对。
Steve Jobs:
So that's what we're about. We're about making better products. And what I love about the consumer market that I always hated about the enterprise market is that we come up with a product, we try to tell everybody about it, and every person votes for themselves. They go, yes or no. And if enough of them say yes, we get to come to work tomorrow. You know, that's how it works. It's really simple.
这就是我们的宗旨：打造更好的产品。我热爱消费市场，却一直不喜欢企业市场的原因在于：在消费市场，我们推出一款产品，尝试告诉所有人，然后每个人为自己做决定——他们会说“要”或“不要”。如果有足够多的人说“要”，我们第二天就能继续上班。事情就是这样运作，真的很简单。
As where the enterprise market It's not so simple. The people that use the products don't decide for themselves. And the people that make those decisions sometimes are confused. So...
而在企业市场就没那么简单。实际使用产品的人无法自行做决定，而那些做决定的人有时又很困惑。所以……
Speaker 1:
It's...
就是……
Steve Jobs:
We love just trying to make the best products in the world for people and having them tell us by how they vote with their wallets whether we're on track or not.
我们热衷于为人们打造世界上最好的产品，并通过他们用钱包投票的方式来告诉我们是否走在正确的轨道上。
Speaker 2:
So you're not going to remove Google from the iPhone and the iPad but are you going to give users more prominently displayed additional choices to it for instance now that because they are a competitor of yours now?
所以你不会把 Google 从 iPhone 和 iPad 上移除，但既然他们现在是你的竞争对手，你会否给用户提供更醒目的其他选择？
Steve Jobs:
We definitely compete with each other. You know, I noticed in their latest offering, they're allowing their customers to take their iTunes music on to an Android phone, which is fine. They're helping us maybe sell more music.
我们确实彼此竞争。比如我注意到他们最新的服务允许用户把 iTunes 音乐导入 Android 手机，这很好，可能还能帮我们卖出更多音乐。
You know, we have some Google properties on our phone. Just because we're competing with somebody doesn't mean we have to be rude.
你知道，我们的手机上也有一些 Google 的服务。和某人竞争，并不意味着必须对他无礼。
Speaker 2:
That's nice. Okay, so last year at our conference, we had a small search company called Siri.
那挺好。好的，去年在我们的大会上，我们请来了一家名叫 Siri 的小型搜索公司。
Speaker 2:
Steve Jobs.
史蒂夫·乔布斯。
Steve Jobs:
Yeah. Well, I don't know if I would describe Siri as a search company.
是的。不过我不确定我是否会把 Siri 描述成一家搜索公司。
Speaker 2:
Okay, but it's a search-related company and I'd like you to describe it. You now own them, right?
好吧，但它是一家与搜索相关的公司。我想请你描述一下。你们现在拥有它，对吗？
Steve Jobs:
Yeah, we bought them.
是的，我们收购了他们。
Speaker 2:
Why? And there was a lot of speculation. Well, this company is kind of in the search area.
为什么？外界对此有很多猜测。嗯，这家公司算是在搜索领域吧。
Steve Jobs:
No, they're not in the search area.
不，他们不在搜索领域。
Speaker 2:
What are they in? How would you describe it?
那他们属于什么领域？你会怎么描述？
Steve Jobs:
They're in the AI area.
他们属于人工智能领域。
Speaker 2:
So you bought them for their engineers and their patents and their knowledge about AI more broadly.
所以你们是为了他们的工程师、专利以及更广泛的 AI 知识而收购他们？
Steve Jobs:
We like what they do a lot.
我们非常喜欢他们所做的事情。
Speaker 2:
Okay.
好的。
Speaker 1:
What do you want them to do for you?
你希望他们为你们做什么？
Speaker 2:
So you're not going into the search business through them or anything like that?
所以你们不会通过他们涉足搜索业务之类的对吗？
Steve Jobs:
No, we have no plans to go into the search business. That's not something we know about. It's not something we care deeply about. Other people do it well.
不，我们没有进入搜索业务的计划。那不是我们擅长的，也不是我们非常关心的领域。别人做得很好。
See, what's hard for people to remember, and this is good, I think, is go back to pre-iPhone, only three years ago. There was no app market for apps on phones. Phones were sold in truly walled gardens, as you know. You railed against this.
你看，有件事人们很难记住，但我认为这很重要，回到 iPhone 之前，也就三年前。当时手机上没有应用市场。手机完全处在真正的“围墙花园”中，你也知道，你曾大加抨击这一点。
And the thought that a developer could make an app for a phone was unheard of.
那时，开发者能为手机开发应用的想法简直闻所未闻。
Speaker 2:
Well, there were apps for the Palm platform. There were some. Palm didn't operate a store, you're right, but there were apps and independent companies would sell them and you could download them.
嗯，Palm 平台上是有应用的。有一些。Palm 确实没有运营商店，你说得对，但确实有应用，独立公司会出售，你也可以下载。
Steve Jobs:
There were a few handfuls, but there wasn't anything.
数量其实屈指可数，根本算不上什么。
Speaker 2:
No, nothing like this.
不，完全不是这样。
Steve Jobs:
Even a percent of what there is now. It's huge now. And also, when you bought a phone, the carrier dictated what was on that phone.
现在的规模已经大得惊人，连以前的百分之一都比不上。而且，以前你买手机时，运营商会决定手机里装什么。
iPhone was the first phone where we had a new relationship with a carrier that said, carrier, you worry about the network, we'll worry about what's on the phone.
iPhone 是第一款与运营商建立新型合作关系的手机——运营商负责网络，我们负责手机里的内容。
Speaker 2:
How are they doing with that network thing here in the U.S.?
他们在美国的网络表现如何？
Steve Jobs:
Well, they're doing pretty well, actually, in some ways, and they have some work to do in other ways.
实际上，在某些方面他们做得相当不错，在其他方面还有改进空间。
Speaker 1:
And how do you pressure them when you get so many clients?
当你们拥有这么多用户时，如何向他们施压？
Steve Jobs:
We meet with them once a quarter, and they're doing a lot. I mean, remember, they're handling way more data traffic than all of their competitors combined. Way more.
我们每季度与他们会面一次，他们正在做大量工作。要知道，他们处理的数据流量远超所有竞争对手的总和，远远超过。
And so they're having troubles and they're having troubles their biggest trouble right now is getting equipment out of their suppliers. So they can beef up these networks.
因此，他们确实遇到一些困难，而当前最大的难题是从供应商那里获得设备，以便加强这些网络。
But they have the fastest 3G network and I think it's it's improving I wish I could say rapidly but I think it's. Moderate rate improving. And I think they're going to end up with a very good,
不过，他们拥有最快的 3G 网络，我认为它正在改善——我希望能说是快速改善，但我觉得是中等速度的改进。我相信最终他们会拥有非常出色、
very fast network that is actually the most robust for handling lots of data, simply because they got there first and they had the problems.
非常快速且能处理大量数据的网络，这正是因为他们率先建设并经历了这些问题。
I'm convinced that any other network, had you put this many iPhones on it, would have had the same problems. And so, but I do think they have some issues and they're working hard on it.
我相信，若把这么多 iPhone 放到任何其他网络上，也会遇到同样的问题。不过我确实认为他们还有一些问题，他们也在努力解决。
Speaker 2:
In the UK, you went to three carriers. It didn't seem to cannibalize your sales. In the US, would there be an advantage to be on more than one carrier? There might be.
在英国，你们选择了三家运营商，看起来并没有蚕食销量。在美国，使用多家运营商会有优势吗？也许有。
Steve Jobs:
Might be?
也许有？
Speaker 2:
So are you going to do it?
那你们会这么做吗？
Steve Jobs:
The future is long.
未来还长着呢。
Speaker 1:
How about this year?
那今年呢？
Speaker 2:
How about the short term?
短期内呢？
Steve Jobs:
Yeah, you know, I can't talk about that stuff. You know that.
是啊，你知道的，我不能谈这些事情。
Speaker 1:
Okay, let's talk about the other things you're making because you talk about you're not going to be in a search. What is your next...
好的，我们来谈谈你们正在做的其他东西，因为你说过你们不会进入搜索领域。那么你们接下来要……
We've been here at D, you talked about, I guess a couple years ago, not really doing a phone and not doing a tablet or the tablets. You were sort of...
在 D 大会上，你曾在几年前谈到过，其实并不会做手机，也不会做平板电脑。你当时有点……
Speaker 2:
Different of your... You gave reasons why tablet PC wasn't such a good idea.
你从不同角度……你当时列举了平板电脑不是好点子的理由。
And another time you talked about you weren't going to do a phone because you had to sell it through the, I think you called them the five orifices at the time, the carriers.
还有一次你说不会做手机，因为必须通过——我记得你当时称之为“五大孔道”——即运营商来销售。
I was calling them the Soviet ministries, but you had a more colorful phrase. And you're doing both of those.
我把他们叫做“苏联部委”，而你的说法更生动。但现在你们两样都在做。
Steve Jobs:
Well, you know, we found a way to change that. We found a way to sell the phone that we wanted to sell, and define it the way we wanted to define it,
嗯，你知道，我们找到了解决办法。我们找到了实现愿景的方式：按我们想要的方式销售手机，并按我们的方式来定义它，
have the control that we wanted to have over what was on the phone versus the carrier controlling that. So we were able to change the rules of the game. And that's what got us excited about getting into the phone business.
在手机内容上拥有我们想要的掌控，而不是由运营商控制。因此我们得以改变游戏规则。正是这点激发了我们进入手机业务的热情。
Speaker 2:
And when you were talking about it here, you didn't know that you could do that.
可当时你在这里谈论这一点时，并不知道可以做到。
Steve Jobs:
No, we absolutely didn't think we could. We had some discussions and we didn't think we could. But we were able to persuade AT\&T and they took a very big leap on us. I mean, we'd never been in the handset business before.
是的，我们当时确实认为不可能。我们进行过多次讨论，也觉得做不到。但我们最终说服了 AT\&T，他们在我们身上下了很大赌注。要知道，我们之前从未涉足手机业务。
We'd never been in the phone business in any way, shape or form. So they took a big leap on us and decided they were going to trust us to do the right thing on the phone. And it's worked out very well.
我们以前完全没有做过手机。所以他们大胆信任我们，让我们把手机做好。事实证明成效显著。
So we were able to change the rules of those games, the game, in the same way in the tablet. What I remember telling you on the tablet was that handwriting was probably the slowest input method ever invented.
于是我们在平板领域也以同样方式改变了游戏规则。我记得当时跟你说过，手写可能是人类发明的最慢的输入方式。
And that it was doomed to failure. Well, what we tried to do was re-imagine the tablet. In other words, I think Microsoft did a lot of interesting work on the tablet. What we've done is not compete with what they did.
而这注定要失败。我们尝试的是重新想象平板。换言之，我认为微软在平板上做了不少有趣的工作，而我们的做法并不是与他们竞争。
We reimagined it, and what we're doing is completely different than what they did. You know, they're completely stylus-based.
我们进行了重新构想，而我们所做的与他们完全不同。他们完全基于手写笔。
Speaker 2:
They're tablet PC that they have now.
他们现在的平板电脑就是如此。
Steve Jobs:
For 10 years.
做了十年。
Speaker 2:
Right.
没错。
Steve Jobs:
You know, and what we said at the very beginning was, if you need a stylus, you've already failed.
你知道，我们最早就说过：如果一定要手写笔，那就已经失败了。
Speaker 2:
So, let's talk about tablets.
那么，让我们谈谈平板电脑。
Steve Jobs:
And that drove everything. That drove everything. Their tablet PC was based on a PC.
这条理念驱动了一切，左右了所有决策。他们的平板 PC 是基于传统 PC 的。
Speaker 2:
Right.
对。
Speaker Jobs:
Had all the expense of a PC. Had the battery life of a PC. Had the weight of a PC. It used a PC operating system that really needed the precision of the tip of an arrow of a cursor.
成本与个人电脑相同，续航时间也与个人电脑一样，重量亦如个人电脑。它运行的是需要光标尖端精确度的 PC 操作系统。
Speaker 2:
Right.
对。
Speaker Jobs:
Well, the minute you throw A stylus out, you cannot get that precision. You have the precision of a finger, which is much cruder. Therefore, you need to have totally different software. So you can't use a PC operating system.
一旦抛弃手写笔，你就无法获得那种精确度，只剩手指这种粗糙得多的精度。因此，你需要完全不同的软件，所以不能使用 PC 操作系统。
And you have to bite the bullet and say, we're going to have to create this from scratch because all the PC apps won't work without being rewritten anyway. And so we built a very different animal.
你必须硬着头皮承认：我们得从零开始打造这一切，因为所有 PC 应用都得重写才能运行。于是我们创造出了一种完全不同的产品。
Speaker 2:
So when you built this OS, this multi-touch gestural OS for fingers, You didn't do it in a tablet right away. You did it in the phone. What was the...
当你们打造这个面向手指的多点触控操作系统时，并没有立刻用在平板电脑上，而是先用在手机上。这是为什么……
I mean, did you consider doing a tablet when you did the iPhone or was it just a natural progression? The iPhone came out. It was a big hit.
就是说，在做 iPhone 时你考虑过平板吗？还是说推出 iPhone 并大获成功后，自然而然地才想到平板？
Steve Jobs:
I'll actually tell you kind of a secret. Okay. Okay. I actually started on a tablet first. And I had this idea of being able to get rid of the keyboard, type on a multi-touch glass display.
其实我可以透露个小秘密。好吧。最初我先从平板着手。我当时的想法是去掉键盘，在多点触控玻璃屏上输入文字。
And I asked our folks, could we come up with a multi-touch display that we could type on, I could rest my hands on and actually type on. And about six months later, they called me in and showed me this prototype display. And it was amazing.
我问团队能否做出一块多点触控屏，让我可以把手放在上面真正打字。大约六个月后，他们叫我去看一块原型屏，非常惊艳。
And I gave it to one of our guys. This was in the early 90s. I mean early 2000s. And I gave it to one of our other really brilliant UI folks. And he called me back a few weeks later and he had inertial scrolling working and a few other things.
当时是上世纪九十年代早期——哦不，二十一世纪初。我把它交给另一位出色的 UI 同事。几周后他告诉我已经实现了惯性滚动等功能。
Now we were thinking about building a phone at that time. And when I saw the rubber band inertial scrolling and a few of the other things, I thought, my God, we can build a phone out of this.
那时我们正考虑造手机。当我看到橡皮筋式惯性滚动等功能时，我想：天哪，我们可以用它来造手机。
And I put the tablet project on the shelf because the phone was more important. And we went and took the next several years and did the iPhone. And when we got our wind back and thought we could take on something next,
于是我把平板项目搁置，因为手机更重要。接下来的几年里我们做了 iPhone。等我们缓过劲来，考虑下一步时，
I pulled the tablet off the shelf, took everything we learned from the phone, went back to work on a tablet.
我重新拿起平板项目，把从手机学到的一切用在平板上，继续开发。
Speaker 1:
So where does the tablet go from here? Now among the many things that people think it's going to do is save journalism.
那么平板接下来会怎样？人们认为它的诸多用途之一是拯救新闻业。
That was, you know, there was a big, there's a lot of stories about you going to visit publishers and talking about it being the hope of journalism.
有很多报道说你拜访出版商，称平板是新闻业的希望。
Do you consider that a goal of yours or anything that's important to you or is it just that magazines look real pretty on it?
这算是你的目标或你所重视的事吗？还是只是因为杂志在平板上看上去很漂亮？
Steve Jobs:
Well, we have a lot of goals with it, but one of my beliefs very strongly is that any democracy depends on a free, healthy press. And so, when I think of the most important journalistic endeavors in this country,
我们对平板抱有很多目标，但我坚信任何民主都依赖自由、健康的新闻业。所以当我想到美国最重要的新闻机构时，
I think of things like The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and publications like that and we all know what's happened to the economics of those businesses and some of them are in real trouble.
我会想到《华盛顿邮报》《纽约时报》《华尔街日报》等。我们都知道这些机构的经济状况发生了什么，有些真的陷入困境。
So even more than magazines I think Some of these newspapers are the news gathering and editorial organizations are really important. I don't want to see us descend into a nation of bloggers myself.
所以相比起杂志，我认为这些报纸的新闻采编机构更加重要。我不想看到我们沦为一个全是博主的国家。
I think we need editorial more than ever right now. Anything that we can do to help the New York Times and the Washington Post,
我认为现在比以往任何时候都更需要专业编辑。凡是能帮助《纽约时报》《华盛顿邮报》
the Wall Street Journal and other news gathering organizations find new ways of expression so that they can afford to get paid, so they can afford to keep their news gathering and editorial operations intact, I'm all for.
《华尔街日报》及其他新闻机构找到新的表达方式，让他们获得收入、维持新闻采编运作，我都全力支持。
Speaker 1:
Do you actually think it will work? I mean, is this something that you think people will move to reading? Have you moved yourself?
你真的认为这行得通吗？我的意思是，你觉得人们会转向这种阅读方式吗？你自己已经转向了吗？
Steve Jobs:
Well, we've all moved to reading our news on the web. That's why these newspapers are in dire straits. And what we have to do is figure out a way to get people to start paying for this hard-earned content.
我们大家都已经转到网上看新闻了，这正是那些报纸陷入困境的原因。我们必须想办法让人们开始为这些来之不易的内容付费。
And so, this provides us a potential opportunity to provide them even more value than just a webpage and to start to charge a little bit for that. Now, what I preach is that I don't know what's going to work,
因此，这为我们提供了一个机会，让我们能够提供比网页更高的价值，并开始为此收取一些费用。现在，我常说，我并不知道哪种方式一定有效，
but I can tell you as one of the largest sellers of content on the internet to date, the biggest lesson Apple's learned is price it aggressively and go for volume. And that's worked for us.
但作为迄今为止互联网上最大的内容销售商之一，我可以告诉你，苹果学到的最大经验就是：定价要有竞争力，然后靠销量取胜。这一直对我们奏效。
And every time we haven't done that as much, we've seen more attenuated success. So, I'm trying to get these folks to take more aggressive postures than what they charge traditionally for print,
而每当我们不那么激进定价时，成功就会打折扣。所以，我正努力让这些出版方比以往的纸媒定价更具进取心，
because they don't have the expenses of printing, they don't have the expenses of delivery, and to… …to charge a reasonable price and go for volume. Because I think people are willing to pay for content.
因为他们不再有印刷成本，也没有配送成本……要做的就是收取合理价格并追求销量。因为我认为，人们愿意为内容付费。
I've believed it in music, I believe it in media, and I believe it in news content.
我在音乐领域相信这一点，在媒体领域也相信，在新闻内容上同样相信。
Speaker 2:
But in books…
但在图书方面……
Steve Jobs:
Yes.
是的。
Speaker 2:
And I'm no expert on this agency model and all the stuff that's going on, although our colleagues at the Journal have certainly written about it very well.
我对代理模式及其背后的所有故事并非专家，尽管《华尔街日报》的同事们已经对此做了非常好的报道。
But it looks like your entry into the book thing actually forced the prices up other than for new like bestsellers where there's a lot of competition. So isn't that opposite of what you just said of trying to price more aggressively?
但看起来你们进入图书领域后，除了一些竞争激烈的新畅销书外，实际上把价格推高了。这不正与刚才“更具竞争力定价”的说法相反吗？
The typical book is up toward $14.99 and Amazon had been kind of holding it down to $9.99, right?
普通电子书价格涨到大约 14.99 美元，而亚马逊之前一直压在 9.99 美元，对吗？
Steve Jobs:
Yeah. The… It's complicated. The market right now is such that it is set up to be far more responsive to consumer demand for what the prices need to be than it was six months ago. Way more responsive. So we may see prices go up a little bit,
是的……情况很复杂。如今的市场结构比六个月前更能及时回应消费者对于价格的需求，反应快得多。所以价格也许会上涨一点，
but if consumers want the prices to be less, they will be far more responsive to those signals than they were going to be six months ago. Because the structure of how the publishers are approaching this has changed dramatically.
但如果消费者希望更低价，出版方对这些信号的反应速度也将远超六个月前。因为出版商处理此事的结构已经发生了巨大变化。
Speaker 2:
So let’s talk more broadly about tablets. A second ago, you said you have a lot of plans for tablets or thoughts about what tablets could be.
那我们更广泛地谈谈平板电脑。刚才你说你对平板有很多计划或想法，关于平板能成为什么。
And when you did your presentation on the iPad, you said it's like, you know, here's your phone, here's your laptop, here's this third category.
在你展示 iPad 时，你说它就像这样：这是手机，这是笔记本电脑，而这是第三个品类。
And if it's not better than a netbook, if it's not of value to people, it's not going to succeed. And in my own review, I liked it. I was favorable. I said it had a chance to really change things.
你还说，如果它不比上网本更好、不对人们有价值，就不会成功。在我的评测中，我很喜欢它，态度积极，我说它有机会真正改变局面。
But I also said people have to feel like it's not an extra thing to carry. They have to feel like it's enough of the time going to replace enough of the things they do on their laptop, not necessarily 100%.
但我也指出，人们必须觉得它不是额外要携带的东西；他们得觉得在足够多的时候，它能替代他们在笔记本上做的足够多的事情，不必百分之百替代。
Is the tablet going to be, eventually replace the laptop, do you think? There are a lot of people who say, well, you'll never do content creation on it, for instance. Talk about what you think, where it's going.
你认为平板最终会取代笔记本吗？很多人说，比如说，你永远不会在平板上进行内容创作。谈谈你怎么看，平板会走向何方。
Not just the iPad, but the tablet itself, as a form factor.
不仅仅是 iPad，而是平板电脑这一形态本身。
Steve Jobs:
I'm trying to think of a good analogy. When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks, because that's what you needed on the farm.
我试着想一个合适的类比。当我们还是一个农业国时，所有汽车都是卡车，因为农场需要它们。
But as vehicles started to be used in the urban centers, And America started to move into those urban and then suburban centers.
但随着车辆开始在城市中心使用，美国也开始向城市乃至郊区迁移。
Cars got more popular and innovations like automatic transmission and power steering and things that you didn't care about in a truck as much started to become paramount in cars.
轿车变得更受欢迎，自动变速箱、动力转向等你在卡车上不太在意的创新开始在轿车上变得至关重要。
And now, Probably, I don't know what the statistics are, maybe one out of every 25 vehicles, 30 vehicles is a truck. Where it used to be 100%. PCs are going to be like trucks. They're still going to be around.
而现在，大概——我不知道确切统计，也许每 25 辆、30 辆车里只有一辆是卡车，而过去则是百分之百。个人电脑会像卡车一样，它们仍会存在。
They're still going to have a lot of value, but they're going to be used by one out of X people.
它们仍将非常有价值，但只会被少数人使用。
Speaker 2:
And when you say PC, just so I'm clear, it's not PC versus Mac. You mean personal computers, and you're including laptops and desktops. Okay.
当你说 PC 时，为了明确起见，这不是 PC 对 Mac 的问题。你指的是个人电脑，包括笔记本和台式机，对吗？
Steve Jobs:
And this transformation is going to make some people uneasy. People from the PC world, like you and me, it's going to make us uneasy, because the PC's taken us a long ways. It's brilliant.
这种转变会让一些人感到不安。来自 PC 世界的人，比如你我，会觉得不安，因为 PC 带我们走了很远，它很出色。
And we like to talk about the post-PC era, but when it really starts to happen, I think it's uncomfortable. for a lot of people because it's changed and a lot of vested interests are going to change and it's going to be different.
我们喜欢谈论后 PC 时代，但当它真正到来时，我认为许多人会感到不舒服，因为变革发生，许多既得利益将改变，一切会不同。
So I think that we're embarked on that. Is it the iPad? Who knows? Will it happen next year or five years from now or seven years from now? Who knows? But I think we're heading in the right direction.
所以我认为我们已经踏上这条道路。是不是 iPad？谁知道呢？它会在明年发生，还是五年后、七年后发生？谁知道呢？但我认为我们正朝着正确的方向前进。
Speaker 2:
Well, you don't really think it's going to happen next year, right? I mean, it's a longer process than that, isn't it?
那么你并不真的认为它会在明年发生，对吧？我是说，这是一个更漫长的过程，不是吗？
Steve Jobs:
Sure.
当然。
Speaker 1:
And what do you imagine? When you talk about adding power transmission and windshield wipers, like intermittent windshield wipers, are there some things you're seeing now that you think will change from right now where the iPad started?
当你谈到添加动力传动系统和雨刷，比如间歇式雨刷时，你现在看到哪些东西会从 iPad 刚起步时的状态发生改变？
Do you see anything emerging as important?
你是否看到什么正在浮现为重要？
Steve Jobs:
People laugh at me because I have used the phrase magical to describe the iPad.
人们嘲笑我，因为我用“魔力”一词来形容 iPad。
Speaker 1:
Yes, they do.
是的，他们的确如此。
Steve Jobs:
But it's what I really think. And there is something magical about it. It's like you have a much more direct and intimate relationship with the internet and media, your apps, your content.
但这真的是我的想法。它确实有某种魔力。你与互联网和媒体、你的应用、你的内容之间的联系变得更直接、更亲密。
It's like something's Some intermediate thing has been removed and stripped away.
就好像某个中间层被去掉、被剥离了。
Speaker 1:
Well, the keyboard.
嗯，就是键盘。
Steve Jobs:
You know like that Claritin commercial where they strip away the film?
你知道那个 Claritin（开瑞坦）广告吗，他们把那层薄膜揭掉？
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
是的。
Steve Jobs:
It's like that.
就是那种感觉。
Speaker 1:
Okay.
好的。
Steve Jobs:
And it's, you know, is it the direct action? Is it the fact that you can move it all around? Is it the fact that you have no cables and 10-hour battery life? I don't know. It's all these things plus other things which I don't understand yet.
你知道，这到底是因为直接的操作？还是因为你可以随处移动？还是因为没有线缆、拥有 10 小时电池续航？我不知道。既是这些，又加上一些我尚未理解的其他因素。
But there's something about it that's magical and I think we are just scratching the surface on the kind of apps we can build for it. I think one can create a lot of content on a tablet.
但它有某种魔力，我认为我们目前只是在探索能为其开发的应用的冰山一角。我相信人们能在平板上创作大量内容。
Speaker 2:
Can we talk about that for a second?
我们能就此谈一下吗？
Steve Jobs:
Sure.
当然。
Speaker 2:
Shipped it. Coincidentally, or the day you shipped it, you also announced iWork redone for touch. Sure. \$10 a piece. Those are content creation. They are. At least editing, but you can create from scratch there.
你们发布 iPad 的同一天也宣布了重新为触控打造的 iWork，每款 10 美元。那就是内容创作软件，起码能编辑，也能从零开始创作。
There are a few other companies I noticed today. I got a press release that one of the documents to go, which has been around a long time on phones, is now out on the iPad.
我今天还注意到几家公司。我收到一份新闻稿，说在手机上存在已久的 Documents To Go 也登陆了 iPad。
It's about to be out on the iPad and it can do Word docs, Excel, PowerPoint, whatever. But there are a lot of people who don't believe that this class of devices, because of the typing and all that, is right for content creation.
它即将在 iPad 上发布，可处理 Word、Excel、PowerPoint 等文件。但很多人认为这类设备因输入方式等原因并不适合内容创作。
You obviously seem to disagree and I'd just love for you to talk about that a little bit.
显然你并不同意这一点，我想听听你的看法。
Steve Jobs:
Yeah, I guess why wouldn't they be is the question. You could say when I'm going to write that 35 page analyst report, you know, I want to use my Bluetooth keyboard. But that's 1% of the time I'm using it.
是的，问题应该是为什么它们不能。你可能会说，当我要写 35 页的分析报告时，我想用蓝牙键盘，但那只占我使用它时间的 1%。
So I still get the benefits the other 99% of the time. If you would say, well, the software is not powerful enough, that's just a matter of time. So it can't be that the software is not powerful enough because that can get fixed over time.
其余 99% 的时间我依然能享受它的优势。若你说软件不够强大，那只是时间问题；软件不足强大这一点并不成立，因为随着时间推移它会被完善。
So I think your vision would have to be fairly short to say that these things can't Over time grow into tools that can do many things.
因此，如果认为这些设备无法随着时间发展成为能做很多事情的工具，那未免目光短浅。
Speaker 1:
Such as give us an example of what you would imagine would be something.
比如说，你可以举例说明你设想的某些应用吗？
Steve Jobs:
Well, obviously the productivity stuff, but, you know, things like editing video, things like graphic arts, things like music. You can imagine all of these content creation things on such devices.
当然包括办公类应用，还比如视频剪辑、图形艺术、音乐制作等。你可以想象所有这些内容创作工作都能在这类设备上完成。
Speaker 2:
Does some of that depend on more powerful processors and so forth?
这些是否部分取决于更强大的处理器等硬件？
Steve Jobs:
Sure. Yeah. Time takes care of lots of this stuff.
当然。是的，时间会解决很多问题。
Speaker 1:
Do you imagine it being more flexible? Do you see yourself putting out an iPad that is not a hard glass surface?
你设想它会变得更灵活吗？你会推出不是硬质玻璃表面的 iPad 吗？
Steve Jobs:
We don't have the technology to do that and it's not on the horizon.
我们没有那样的技术，近期也看不到实现的可能。
Speaker 1:
Anytime.
随时。
Steve Jobs:
Well, horizon implies a finite amount of time.
嗯，“地平线”意味着有限的时间。
Speaker 1:
But do you ever, what is the problem there? Is it just not, what are the technical problems that would prevent that?
但你有没有想过，问题出在哪里？是不是技术上存在什么难题阻碍了这一点？
Steve Jobs:
I'm not an expert in what it takes to make flexible displays, but a lot of people have tried, a lot of people are trying, and maybe somebody will have a breakthrough. Flexible, printable displays are probably the...
我不是柔性显示研发方面的专家，但很多人已经尝试、正在尝试，也许有一天会有人取得突破。可打印的柔性显示大概还——
Speaker 1:
Pretty bad.
前景堪忧。
Steve Jobs:
Many years away.
还需要很多年。
Speaker 2:
Can I talk to you about a somewhat different subject, which is curation? So you are, as Rupert said in his opening talk, you know, there's been some blurring,
我能和你谈一个稍微不同的话题吗？就是“内容筛选”。正如鲁珀特在开场演讲中所说，现在科技公司和媒体公司的业务边界有些模糊，
some technology companies and media companies are in each other's businesses a little bit, and you obviously are I'm a retailer of a lot of content and of apps as well.
一些科技公司和媒体公司开始涉足彼此的业务领域，而你们显然也零售大量内容和应用。
And there's been a lot of, you know, there are these controversies that flare up periodically about your app store rejecting things. And in some cases you backtracked and changed your mind after there was an outcry and so forth.
围绕你们的 App Store 拒绝某些应用，时不时会爆发争议。有时在舆论哗然后，你们会撤回决定并改变想法，诸如此类。
You know, I don't know of any law that says that any merchant, whether it's you or Walmart or CBS or anyone, has to carry anything they don't want to carry. But isn't there, as you become more and more popular, you know,
我不知道哪条法律规定任何商家——无论是你们、沃尔玛、CBS 还是其他谁——必须上架他们不想卖的东西。但随着你们越来越受欢迎，难道不会出现这样的问题吗？
we started by talking about your market cap, which is kind of a symbol of that, let's say, and you're selling every three seconds an iPad, there's responsibility along with that, as you have pointed out.
我们一开始谈到你们的市值，这可以说是这种受欢迎程度的象征；再比如你们每三秒就能卖出一台 iPad，正如你所指出的，这也伴随着责任。
Steve Jobs:
As we become big, unlike Walmart, then what?
如果我们变得很大，但又不像沃尔玛，那又怎样？
Speaker 2:
CVS, they're big, you know. I'm like, right, but you become big, so you've got the most apps. My question to you is,
CVS 也很大，对吧？我的意思是，你们变得庞大，拥有最多的应用。我的问题是，
you've talked in some of the things you've written about the responsibility to protect your consumers from malware and from porn and stuff like that, but is there a downside of you guys acquiring...
你在一些文章中谈到保护消费者免受恶意软件、色情内容等影响的责任，但你们掌握这么大权力是否也有负面影响……
Steve Jobs:
Here's what we do.
让我来说说我们的做法。
Speaker 2:
Oh, wait a minute.
哦，等一下。
Speaker 2:
Is there a downside of you guys acquiring All this power and saying no to some political cartoonist or no to some political candidate and also doing it in a black box that at least a lot of people on the outside have trouble understanding what the rules are.
你们掌握了如此大的权力，可能拒绝某位政治漫画家或某位政治候选人的应用，而且整个过程像个黑箱——外界很难理解规则——这难道没有问题吗？
So don't you have a problem there?
那你们在这方面没有困扰吗？
Steve Jobs:
Well here's, let me tell you first of all, we have two platforms we support. One is completely open and uncontrolled and that's HTML5. HTML5 is a set of standards set by independent standards organizations that are widely respected.
首先让我说一下，我们支持两个平台。其中一个是完全开放、无人控制的平台，那就是 HTML5。HTML5 由独立且享有广泛尊重的标准组织制定。
So HTML5, CSS, you know, stuff like that.
所以包括 HTML5、CSS 等技术。
Speaker 2:
JavaScript.
JavaScript。
Speaker Jobs:
JavaScript would be a third one. So we support HTML5. We have the best support for HTML5 of anybody in the world in our browsers. And so I think we support this very completely open, uncontrolled platform. Standards-based.
JavaScript 可以算第三项。我们全面支持 HTML5，在我们的浏览器中拥有全球最好的 HTML5 支持。因此，我认为我们提供了一个完全开放、无管制、基于标准的平台。
We then support a curated platform, which is the App Store, which has over 200,000 apps in it. It's the most vital applications community on any platform in the world today. So, how do we curate this?
其次，我们还支持一个经过筛选的平台——App Store，目前已拥有超过 20 万款应用，是当今全球任何平台上最具活力的应用社区。那么，我们如何进行筛选？
It's a bunch of people, just like you and me, coming into work and doing their best every day. And we've got a few rules. Some of the rules are the app has to function as advertised, has to do what the developer advertises it's going to do,
就是一群和你我一样的员工每天上班尽最大努力。我们有几条规则：其一，应用必须如宣传那样运行，必须实现开发者宣称的功能；
can't crash, cannot use unsupported APIs, because if a bunch of customers buy the app and we upgrade the OS, and they're using unsupported APIs that break, then the apps will break, and we'll have a whole bunch of unhappy customers.
不能崩溃，不能调用未公开的 API，因为如果很多用户购买了该应用，而我们升级了系统、这些私有 API 失效，应用就会崩溃，我们就会面对大量不满的客户。
So they have to use public APIs only. And those turn out to be the three biggest reasons we reject apps. It's for those three things.
因此应用只能使用公开 API。这三条正是我们拒绝应用的三大主要原因。
But we approve 95% of the apps that are submitted every week, which is many, many, many, many thousands every week. We approve 95% of them within seven days.
不过，每周提交的海量应用中，我们会批准 95%，且在七天内完成审核。
Speaker 2:
So what happened in these cases like that political candidate was mad and...
那像之前那位政界候选人被拒而生气的事件，又是怎么回事？
Steve Jobs:
We had a rule that said you can't defame other people.
我们有条规定：不能诽谤他人。
Speaker 2:
That's in your terms of service?
这写在你们的服务条款里？
Steve Jobs:
Yeah, you can't defame people.
是的，不能诽谤他人。
Speaker 1:
Determined by the people that work at Apple, correct?
由苹果员工来判定，对吗？
Steve Jobs:
Yes, but I think it would be determined pretty much universally among rational people. Not some strange definition. You can't defame people. And the problem is, political cartoons got caught in that. Because by definition they defame people.
对，但我认为理性的人普遍都会这么判定，这并不是某种奇怪的标准。不能诽谤他人。而问题在于，政治漫画因此被波及，因为它们本质上就是在讽刺、诽谤人物。
So, we didn't think of that. That was an unintended consequence of a rule that said you can't defame people. So this guy submits his cartoon late last year, the rule's still in place, he gets rejected.
我们当时没想到这一点。这是“不得诽谤”规则的意外后果。去年底那位作者提交了他的漫画，规则仍然有效，于是被拒了。
For other reasons, we realized that this is an unintended consequence. We changed the rule, I think it was in January, except for political cartoons. The guy never puts his app back in again. He wins a Pulitzer Prize.
后来因其他原因我们意识到这是意外结果，于是大约在一月修改了规则，为政治漫画作了例外。但那位作者再也没重新提交，他还拿了普利策奖。
Somebody asks him, he doesn't actually run to the press, but somebody asks him, how come this isn't on the iPad? He goes, oh, I submitted it, they rejected it. He's a nice enough guy about it.
有人问起，他并未主动找媒体，只是被问到为什么没上 iPad，他回答：我提交了，他们拒了。他态度还不错。
And then these flurrious stories get written several months after we changed the rule because we found out about an unintended consequence. So, we are guilty as charged of making mistakes because nobody's ever done this before.
然而在我们改规则几个月后，仍有很多轰动报道出现。确实，我们犯了错误，因为此前从未有人做过这样的事。
Nobody's ever tried to set rules for 200,000 apps in two years. In the most vital app community on any platform before, we're doing the best we can, we're learning as fast as we can, we're changing the rules when it makes sense,
没人曾在两年里为 20 万款应用制定规则。我们处于全球最活跃的应用社区，只能尽最大努力、尽快学习，并在合适时调整规则。
but we think it made sense to have a rule that said, don't, you can't defame people. Because we didn't want these apps that did that. We didn't think that was right. So, we're doing the best we can. We're making mistakes.
但我们仍然认为“不得诽谤他人”是合理的，因为我们不想要那类应用，这样做不对。所以我们尽力而为，也会犯错。
We're fixing them as fast as we can. And what happens sometimes, though, is that some people lie. Some people use unpublished APIs and their apps get rejected.
我们正尽快修正。可有时一些人会撒谎：有人使用未公开 API，因而被拒。
Some people submit an app that they say does one thing but really does something else. They try to hide it from us. They get very clever about that. They try to hide it from us, and we find it, and we reject it,
有人声明应用做某事，实际却做别的，试图瞒过我们，他们花样百出，但被我们发现后仍会被拒。
and they run to the press, and they tell the press the story about oppression, and it gets written up, and they get their 15 minutes of fame because they hope it will convince us to change our minds,
然后他们跑去媒体，讲述被“压迫”的故事，被报道后获得十五分钟名声，希望借此迫使我们改变决定，
which it never does, but they keep trying to do that. And it's unfortunate, but we take it in the chin, that's part of what we do, and we don't run to the press and go, This guy's a son-of-a-bitch liar. And we move on.
但我们从未因此改变，而他们仍继续这样做。很遗憾，但我们只能咬牙承受，这就是我们的工作一部分；我们不会跑去媒体骂人是骗子，我们会继续前进。
Speaker 2:
Well, if you have a list you want to read out here.
好啊，如果你手上有名单想在这里念出来的话。
Speaker 1:
The government is looking into this, correct?
政府正在调查此事，对吗？
Steve Jobs:
Not that we know.
就我们所知，没有。
Speaker 1:
There's over the eye ads, is that correct?
这是关于 iAd 的问题，对吗？
Speaker 2:
That's a different story.
那是另外一回事。
Speaker 1:
We'll talk about that later. So in terms of publishing these rules more clearly, is there something that you all could do that is much more transparent to people?
我们稍后再谈那个。那么在更清晰地公布这些规定方面，你们能否做得更透明一些？
Speaker 2:
I mean, I talk to developers all the time, you know, who come and want me to write about their product. They all want to be on your platform, but they sometimes express to me that they're confused or they can't exactly predict.
我的意思是，我经常和开发者交流，他们想让我报道他们的产品。他们都想上你们的平台，但有时会对我表示困惑，说自己无法准确预见审核结果。
Steve Jobs:
95% of the apps that are submitted get approved within seven days.
提交的应用有 95% 会在七天内获批。
Speaker 2:
So you don't think there's any need to improve your transparency or expertise?
所以你认为不需要在透明度或专业度上再改进？
Steve Jobs:
I absolutely think we could do better. I just want to remind you, 95% of the 10 to 20,000 apps that get submitted every week get approved within seven days.
我当然觉得我们还能做得更好。只是想提醒一下，每周有一到两万个应用提交，其中 95% 会在七天内获批。
Speaker 1:
There's lots we want to talk about. I'm just curious. I'm just sitting here listening to you. What do you do all day? As I was sitting here, I was like, I wonder what he does all day.
我们还有很多话题要谈。我只是好奇，坐在这里听你说话时就在想，你整天都在做什么？
Steve Jobs:
Most people think not enough.
多数人觉得我做得还不够多。
Speaker 1:
I think you probably do more than most people.
我觉得你可能比大多数人都要忙。
Unknown Speaker:
But what is your day like? I would be curious how you go into the office. What is your role at Apple at this moment?
那你每天日程如何？我很好奇你进办公室后都做些什么。你目前在苹果的角色是什么？
Steve Jobs:
I have one of the best jobs in the world. I'm incredibly lucky. And I thank all of our customers and employees for letting me do what I do.
我拥有世界上最棒的工作之一，真的很幸运。感谢所有客户和员工让我能做自己想做的事。
I get to come into work every morning and hang by the way I do speed and I got to hang around some of the most wonderful, brightest, committed people I've ever met in my life.
每天早上我来到公司，以自己的节奏投入工作，和我遇到的最出色、最聪明、最投入的一群人共事。
And together we get to I play in the best sandbox I've ever seen and try to build great products for people.
我们齐心协力，在我见过的最佳“沙箱”里玩耍，为人们打造卓越产品。
Speaker 2:
What's your role? I could sit here and ask you to describe all the features of the new iPhone, but it's like a waste of time, right? You're not going to say anything. You could.
那你的角色是什么？我可以坐在这里让你讲新 iPhone 的所有功能，但那好像浪费时间，对吧？你也不会透露。
Steve Jobs:
They used to have this saying at Apple, isn't it funny, a ship that leaks from the top.
苹果以前有句玩笑话：有意思吧，一艘从顶部开始漏水的船。
Speaker 2:
They don't have that thing anymore.
他们现在可没那么干了。
Speaker 1:
You can do that though.
不过你可以那么做。
Speaker 2:
What's that?
什么？
Speaker 1:
You can send me an email about it.
你可以给我发封邮件聊聊。
Speaker 2:
But just use that as an example. So you have a new iPhone, we presume, that's coming out very shortly. You're going to announce it very shortly. There's going to be another iPad at some point. There's new Macs at various points in time.
不过就拿这个当例子。我们猜测你们很快就要发布一款新 iPhone，你们也很快就会宣布它。某个时候还会有下一代 iPad，新款 Mac 也会在不同时间推出。
What is your personal role in these things? People have different stories about it, ranging all the way from you design it personally to you kind of, to reuse this word, you kind of curate the suggestions of the people that work under you.
你在这些事情中扮演什么个人角色？关于这一点众说纷纭，有人说你亲自设计，也有人说——借用这个词——你是“策展人”，筛选下属的各种建议。
I mean, give us a sense of that without breaking any of your rules about, you know, product secrecy. What do you do?
你能在不违反产品保密规定的前提下，让我们了解一下吗？你都做些什么？
Steve Jobs:
Apple's an incredibly collaborative company. And so, you know how many committees we have at Apple?
苹果是一家极度注重协作的公司。那么你知道苹果有多少个委员会吗？
Speaker 2:
No.
不知道。
Steve Jobs:
Zero. We have no committees. We are organized like a startup. One person's in charge of iPhone OS software. One person's in charge of Mac hardware. One person's in charge of iPhone hardware engineering.
一个都没有。我们没有委员会。我们的组织像一家初创公司：一个人负责 iPhone OS 软件；一个人负责 Mac 硬件；一个人负责 iPhone 硬件工程。
Another person's in charge of worldwide marketing. Another person's in charge of operations. We're organized like a startup. We're the biggest startup on the planet.
还有一个人负责全球营销，另一个人负责运营。我们的架构就像一家创业公司——只不过是地球上最大的创业公司。
We all meet for three hours once a week and we talk about everything we're doing, the whole business. And there's tremendous teamwork at the top of the company which filters down to tremendous teamwork throughout the company.
我们每周聚在一起开三个小时的会，讨论所有正在做的事情、整个业务。公司高层的强大协作精神渗透到公司上下。
And teamwork is dependent on trusting the other folks to come through with their part without watching them all the time. But trusting that they're going to come through with their parts. And that's what we do really well.
团队合作依赖于信任他人能完成各自职责，而非时时盯着他们；要相信他们会做好自己的部分。这正是我们擅长的。
And we're great at figuring out how to divide things up into these great teams that we have and all work on the same thing, touch bases frequently and bring it all together into a product. We do that really well.
我们善于把任务分配给出色的团队，让大家围绕同一目标频繁对接，最终凝结为一款产品。这是我们的拿手好戏。
And so what I do all day is meet with teams of people. And work on ideas and solve problems to make new products, to make new marketing programs, whatever it is.
所以我整天都在和不同团队开会，打磨创意、解决问题，无论是做新产品还是制定新营销计划，都是如此。
Speaker 2:
And are people willing to tell you you're wrong?
那员工愿意告诉你你错了吗？
Steve Jobs:
Yeah.
当然。
Speaker 2:
I mean, other than snarky journalists. I mean, people that work for you.
我是说，除了尖刻的记者之外，你手下的人会吗？
Steve Jobs:
Oh, yeah. No, we have wonderful arguments.
哦，会的。我们经常进行精彩的辩论。
Speaker 2:
And do you win them all?
那你每次都赢吗？
Steve Jobs:
Oh no, I wish I did. See, you can't. If you want to hire great people and have them stay working for you, you have to let them... I make a lot of decisions and you have to be run by ideas, not hierarchy. The best ideas have to win.
哦不，我希望如此。你看，这是不可能的。如果你想招到优秀人才并让他们留下来，就必须让他们……我做很多决策，但公司必须依靠理念而非等级来运作，最好的想法必须获胜。
Otherwise, good people don't stay.
否则优秀的人就不会留下。
Speaker 2:
But you must be more than a facilitator who runs meetings. You obviously contribute your own ideas.
但你不只是主持会议的协调者吧？显然你也贡献自己的想法。
Steve Jobs:
I contribute ideas, sure. Why would I be there if I didn't?
当然，我会提出想法。如果不这样，我来这里干什么？
Speaker 2:
Because there are some companies run in a different way.
因为有些公司运行方式不同。
Speaker 1:
What do you imagine, this has been the past 10 years of bringing back Apple, 10, 12 years, what do you imagine the next 10 years of your life is going to be about?
过去十年、十二年你一直在复兴苹果，那么你想象中的未来十年会是怎样？
Steve Jobs:
You know, this is probably a bad example, but I'm going to use it. When this whole thing with Gizmodo happened, I got a lot of advice from people that said, you've got to just let it slide.
这可能不是个好例子，但我还是要说。当 Gizmodo 事件发生时，很多人建议我息事宁人。
You can't, you shouldn't, you shouldn't go after a journalist because they bought stolen property and they tried to extort you. You should let it slide. Apple's a big company now. You don't want the PR. You should let it slide.
他们说，你不能、也不该去追究记者，因为他们买了被盗财物、试图敲诈你；苹果现在是大公司，不想要负面公关，就该放手。
And I thought deeply about this. And I ended up concluding that the worst thing that could possibly happen as we get big and we get a little more influence in the world is if we change our core values and start letting it slide.
我对此深思熟虑后得出结论：随着公司壮大、影响力增大，最糟糕的事就是改变我们的核心价值观、开始睁一只眼闭一只眼。
I can't do that. I'd rather quit. You know, you go back five years ago, what would we have done if something like this happened?
我做不到那样，我宁愿辞职。你想想五年前，若发生这种事我们会怎么做？
You go back ten years ago, you know, what would you do if, without going into that, we had the same values now as we had then. We're maybe a little more experienced, certainly more beat up, but the core values are the same.
再往前十年，我们会怎么做？不必深究细节，现在我们的价值观与当时相同，也许经验更丰富、伤痕更多，但核心价值未变。
We come into work wanting to do the same thing today as we did five or ten years ago, which is build the best products for people. You know,
今天上班的愿望与五年前、十年前一样：为人们打造最好的产品。你知道，
there's nothing that makes my day more than getting an email from some random person in the universe who just bought an iPad over in the UK and tells me the story about how it's the coolest product they've ever brought home,
没有什么比收到一封来自英国某个陌生人的邮件更让我开心：他刚买了 iPad，告诉我这是他带回家的最酷产品。
you know, in their lives. That's what keeps me going. And it's what kept me going five years ago. It's what kept me going ten years ago, when the doors were almost closed.
这类经历支撑着我。五年前如此，十年前公司几乎关门时亦如此。
And it's what will keep me going five years from now, whatever happens. So, I don't see why you have to change if you get big.
五年后无论发生什么，这也会继续支撑我。所以我不明白公司变大为什么就必须改变。
Speaker 2:
Well, but it isn't about you changing, but are you going to be in different businesses? I mean, as you pointed out yourself, three years ago, you weren't in the phone business.
不过，这并不是说你改变，而是你们是否会涉足不同的业务？毕竟正如你自己指出，三年前你们还不做手机业务。
Steve Jobs:
Who knows?
谁知道呢？
Speaker 2:
You do.
你知道的。
Steve Jobs:
No, we don't know. You know\...
不，我们也不知道，你看……
Speaker 2:
Come on, Steve, you don't have any thoughts about whether there are other...
得了吧，Steve，你不会没想过是否还有别的领域吧……
Speaker Jobs:
Look at our...
看看我们的……
Speaker 2:
Like, you're going to be... Apparently, you're going into the ad business. You were never in the ad business. That's a new business for you, right?
比如说，你们显然正要进军广告业务。你们以前从没做过广告，这对你们来说是全新的业务，对吧？
Speaker Jobs:
Sure. We're going into the ad business because we want to help our developers make some money so that they can keep providing free or really low-cost apps to customers. That's why we're doing it.
没错。我们进入广告业务，是想帮助开发者赚钱，好让他们继续为用户提供免费或低价的应用。这就是我们这么做的原因。
We're not going to make much money in the ad business. We're doing it for our developers.
在广告业务上我们赚不了多少钱，我们这么做是为了开发者。
Speaker 2:
And why wouldn't you just allow, why wouldn't it be just okay for other people who are already in the mobile ad business or are moving into it to have done it rather than you go and buy this company?
那为什么不干脆让已经在移动广告领域、或正要进入该领域的其他公司来做这事，而是要你们去收购这家公司呢？
Speaker Jobs:
Oh, because we don't think they're going to be able to make our developers as much money because the way they're going about it sucks.
哦，因为我们认为他们做不到让开发者挣到同样多的钱，他们的做法糟透了。
Speaker 1:
Okay.
好吧。
Speaker Jobs:
You know, you get a mobile ad and you touch the banner. See, here's what, let me start at the beginning.
你知道，当你看到一个移动广告并点按横幅……这样吧，我从头开始说起。
Speaker 2:
Go ahead.
请讲。
Speaker Jobs:
Something really interesting is happening on mobile phones. They're not mirroring desktops or laptop PCs in that people are not spending their time searching. They're not doing searching anywhere near as much as they do on PCs.
手机上正发生非常有趣的事情：它们并没有复制台式机或笔记本电脑的模式——人们并没有把时间花在搜索上，搜索量远远低于在 PC 上的水平。
We've got all the data. We know this. They're spending their time in apps. So, for whatever reason, if people want to find out that restaurant to go to, they're not going to their search engine typing in Japanese and Palo Alto,
我们掌握了所有数据，十分清楚这一点——大家把时间花在应用里。举例来说，如果想查找餐厅，人们不会在搜索引擎里输入“日餐 Palo Alto”，
they're going to Yelp or whatever other app they want to go to to find out if their airplane's on time or this or that or this or that. And I don't know why it's different than on PCs. I think I do, but I'm not sure.
而是打开 Yelp 或其他应用；想查航班是否准点，或查其他事情，也都会进相应的应用。我不知道为什么这跟 PC 上的行为不同——我或许有些猜想，但也不十分确定。
I think it's because there never was one place with 200,000 apps where a ton of them were free and the rest of them were really inexpensive for PCs. I think this app thing is an entirely new phenomenon in my lifetime, in your lifetime.
我认为原因在于，PC 上从来没有一个地方能提供 20 万个应用，其中多数是免费的，剩下的也非常便宜。应用这件事，在你我有生之年都是全新的现象。
So I think people are using apps, what we know they are using apps way more than they're using search. So if you want to make developers money, you put ads in the apps, right?
因此，人们现在使用应用的频率显然远高于使用搜索。如果你想让开发者赚钱，就得把广告放进应用里，对吧？
The ads in apps now, our banners, and you touch them, and what is the first thing they do?
而如今应用里的广告——横幅广告——当你点它时会怎样？
Speaker 2:
They take you to a webpage.
它会把你带到网页。
Speaker Jobs:
Yeah, they rip you out of your app, send you to the browser, and all of a sudden, if you're not interested in that ad, you've got to figure out a way back to your app, and even if you can do that, you've got to figure out, in some cases,
没错，它会把你从应用里拽出去，跳到浏览器。如果你对广告不感兴趣，还得想办法回到应用；即使能回去，有时还得想办法
how to get back to the exact place in your app. If you're playing a game, you're probably not going to make it back to the same place. So, wouldn't it be great if mobile ads didn't take you out of the app,
回到应用里的确切位置。如果你在玩游戏，很可能回不到原来的那一关。所以，若移动广告不把你带离应用，岂不更好？
but rather took over the screen, gave you this great experience of an interactive ad, but also combining the emotion of television with video, and any time you wanted,
广告可以直接接管屏幕，提供优质的互动体验，同时结合视频带来的电视式情感；而且你想什么时候退出都行，
you could hit a little button, takes you right back to where you left off, right where you left off in your app. People would explore the...
轻点一个小按钮就能直接回到离开前在应用中的确切位置。人们就会去探索……
Speaker 2:
You don't have faith that anyone else can do it.
你不相信其他人也能做到吗？
Steve Jobs:
Sure, but nobody else is doing it. And so we could build it into the OS, so the apps don't have to do it. We can make it so that an app developer can add these interactive ads in their apps with 30 minutes worth of work.
当然可能有人能做到，但现在没人去做。因此我们可以把它内置到操作系统里，这样应用就无需自己处理。我们可以让开发者只花 30 分钟就能在他们的应用里加入这些交互式广告。
versus working with every advertiser to do some custom thing in their app, which is crazy. And because we own the OS, so we can put it right in the bowels of the system. Could somebody else figure out a way to do that?
相比之下，若让他们跟每家广告商合作，在应用里做定制，那就太疯狂了。而我们拥有操作系统，所以能把功能直接放进系统核心。其他人能不能想出办法做到这点？
Maybe they could, but they weren't, so we did.
也许他们能，但他们并没有去做，所以我们做了。
Speaker 2:
Okay, I think we need to wrap this up, but one theme that we want to ask everybody here And one speaker at great length is privacy. There seems to be this...
好，我想我们得收尾了，但这里有个主题——也是我们打算仔细问每位嘉宾的——就是隐私。似乎出现了这样一种……
Speaker 1:
Sorry, Mark.
抱歉，马克。
Speaker 2:
Sorry, I don't know if Mark's here. Hey, Mark. So... There seems to have been a spate of mistakes or, you know, false starts or things that have to do with privacy where companies have had to retreat,
抱歉，我不知道马克在不在。嗨，马克。那么……似乎最近出现了一连串隐私失误或者说试错风波，导致公司不得不撤回某些做法，
whether it's things with Facebook, things with Google Buzz.
无论是 Facebook 的事情，还是 Google Buzz 的事情。
Steve Jobs:
Or Google's Wi-Fi collection recently.
或者最近 Google 收集 Wi-Fi 数据的事件。
Speaker 2:
Yeah, that Wi-Fi collection inadvertent. Yeah. Talk to me about that. Is privacy looked at differently in Silicon Valley than in the rest of America?
对，就是那个意外收集 Wi-Fi 的事。谈谈这个吧。硅谷对隐私的看法跟美国其他地方不同吗？
Steve Jobs:
No, Silicon Valley is not monolithic. We've always had a very different view of privacy than some of our colleagues in the Valley. We take privacy extremely seriously. As an example, we worry a lot about location in phones.
不是的，硅谷并非铁板一块。与谷中某些同行相比，我们对隐私一直有着截然不同的观点。我们非常重视隐私。例如，我们非常在意手机中的定位功能。
And we worry that some, you know, 14 year old is going to get stalked and something terrible is going to happen because of our phone.
我们担心某个十四岁的孩子可能会被人跟踪，因我们的手机而遭遇可怕的事情。
And so as an example, before any app can get location data, we don't make it a rule that they have to put up a panel and ask because they might not follow that rule.
因此，例如在任何应用获取位置信息之前，我们并不仅仅规定它必须弹窗询问，因为它们可能不会遵守。
They call our location services and we put up the panel saying this app wants to use your location data. Is that okay with you? Every time they want to use it.
应用调用我们的定位服务，由我们弹出面板提醒：“此应用想使用你的位置信息，可以吗？”每次都要征得同意。
We do a lot of things like that to ensure that people understand what these apps are doing. That's one of the reasons we have the curated app store.
我们做了很多类似的事，确保用户明白这些应用在做什么。这也是我们坚持 App Store 审核的原因之一。
We have rejected a lot of apps that want to take a lot of your personal data and suck it up into the cloud. A lot. We're really old. A lot of people in the valley think we're really old-fashioned about this.
我们拒绝了大量试图获取你大量个人数据并上传云端的应用。真的很多。我们相当保守，硅谷不少人觉得我们在这方面很老派。
And maybe we are, but we worry about stuff like this.
或许是这样，但我们确实会为这些问题担忧。
Speaker 2:
But aren't you also going to be moving more into cloud-based things?
可你们不是也会更多转向云端服务吗？
Steve Jobs:
Are we going to be moving more into cloud-based things? Sure.
我们会不会更多转向云端？当然会。
Speaker 2:
And doesn't that inevitably get you? No.
那难道不会不可避免地……？不会吗？
Steve Jobs:
Privacy means people know what they're signing up for in plain English and repeatedly. That's what it means. I'm an optimist. I believe people are smart. And some people want to share more data than other people do. Ask them.
隐私的意义是：让人们用简单易懂的语言、并且反复地知道自己正在同意什么。我很乐观，相信人们是聪明的。有些人愿意分享的数据比别人多——那就去询问他们。
Ask them every time. Make them tell you to stop asking them if they get tired of you asking them. Let them know precisely what you're going to do with their data.
每次都要问。如果他们烦了，让他们告诉你“别再问了”。要让他们清楚了解你会如何处理他们的数据。
Speaker 2:
Okay.
好的。
Steve Jobs:
That's what we think.
这就是我们的想法。
Speaker 2:
Thank you.
谢谢。
Speaker 1:
Okay. Why don't we open up the...
好的。我们是不是该开始……
Speaker 2:
We're running a little late, but we certainly have time for some questions. I think actually you got there first, if I saw correctly.
我们的时间稍微超了，但肯定还能留下来回答一些问题。我记得刚才好像是你先举手的，如果我没看错的话。
Unknown Speaker:
Warren Lee with Kenan Partners. Steve, thanks for showing up. A few years ago, I was here watching you and Bill Gates speak, so I think that was a very historic moment, so very happy that you came back and came to speak with us again.
我是凯能合伙基金的 Warren Lee。Steve，非常感谢你到场。几年前我就在这里看过你和比尔·盖茨同台，那是一个非常具有历史意义的时刻，所以很高兴你今天再次回来与我们交流。
A few years ago, you gave a commencement speech at Stanford to the graduating class. Now, a few years later, a couple of years wiser, would you add anything else to that speech that you gave a couple of years ago?
几年前你在斯坦福大学的毕业典礼上发表过演讲。现在几年过去，你也更加睿智，对当时的演讲有什么补充想法吗？
Steve Jobs:
Oh, I have no idea. I have no idea. Probably I would just turn up the volume on it because the last few years have reminded me that life is fragile.
哦，我真想不出来。我也不确定。或许我只是会把音量调大一些吧，因为过去几年让我再次体会到生命的脆弱。
Speaker 2:
Thanks. Over there, yeah.
谢谢。那边的朋友，请。
Unknown Speaker:
Hi Steve, Chris Frelick from First Round Capital.
你好，Steve。我是 First Round Capital 的 Chris Frelick。
The question is around Apple's terms of services and there were some changes that were recently made around that made some of your developers think that Apple might want to exclusively own the analytics and the advertising business.
我的问题和苹果的服务条款有关。最近条款的一些调整让部分开发者觉得，苹果可能想要独占分析和广告业务。
And I just wondered if that is the case and if it's not, could you help clarify when we might...
我想知道是否真是如此，如果不是的话，你能否澄清一下……
Steve Jobs:
Yeah, sure. We found a really interesting thing. We're real naive about this stuff.
好，没问题。我们发现了一件非常有趣的事。说实话，在这方面我们确实有点天真。
So, one day we read in the paper that a company called Flurry Analytics has detected that we have some new iPhone and other tablet devices that we're using on our campus. We thought, what the hell?
有一天我们在报纸上看到，一家名为 Flurry Analytics 的公司侦测到我们园区里正在使用某些新的 iPhone 和其他平板设备。我们当时想，这怎么回事？
And the way that they detected this was they're getting developers to put their software in their apps and their software is sending out information about the device and about its geolocation and other things back to Flurry.
原来他们让开发者把他们的软件嵌入到 App 里，这些软件会把设备信息、地理位置等数据发回 Flurry。
No customer is ever asked about this. It's violating every rule in our privacy policy with our developers. And we went through the roof about this. So we said, no, we're not going to allow this.
这完全没有征求用户同意，违反了我们给开发者定下的所有隐私规则。对此我们非常愤怒，于是决定：不允许这种行为。
This is violating our privacy policies and it's pissing us off that they're publishing data about our new products.
他们不仅违反隐私政策，还公然公布我们新品的数据，这让我们非常不满。
So we said that we're only going to allow these analytics that don't give device information and therefore solely for the purposes of advertising. Solely for the purposes of advertising. In other words,
因此我们规定：只允许那些不会泄露设备信息、且仅用于广告目的的分析代码。仅限广告用途。换句话说，
if a developer needs to put some analytics in their app that sends some information out to an advertiser so that they can make some money, because we're not going to be the only advertiser, there's others,
如果开发者需要在 App 中加入分析代码，把一些信息发送给广告商，以便他们赚点钱，我们允许；毕竟广告商不止我们一家，
and we're not banning other advertisers from our platforms, they can do that.
我们并未禁止其他广告商进入我们的平台，他们可以这样做。
But they can't send data out to an analytics firm who's going to sell it to make money and publish it to tell everybody that we have devices in our campus that we don't want people to know about. That we don't need to do. Is that clear?
但他们不能把数据发送给某家分析公司，让其出售数据赚钱，并公开发布这些我们不想让外界知道的内部设备信息。这点我们绝不会允许。这样解释清楚了吗？
Unknown Speaker:
It is, but there's a valid use for an app developer wanting to know those things for their own, to make their own app better, to know where people use it, to know where it breaks, that they may not have.
的确如此，但应用开发者想获取这些信息也有合理用途——改进自己的应用、了解用户在哪里使用、知道哪里会崩溃——这些数据他们可能并没有。
Steve Jobs:
There's no excuse for them not asking the customer whether it's appropriate to send that personal private data to an analytics firm, which they were not doing.
他们没有理由不先询问用户是否同意把个人隐私数据发送给分析公司，而他们却没有这么做。
And secondly, after we calm down from being pissed off, then we're willing to talk to some of these analytics firms. But it's not today.
其次，在我们气消之后，我们才愿意与这些分析公司对话。但今天还不行。
Unknown Speaker:
Hi, Michael Lambert. I'm an owner of Village Roadshow Pictures, which is a film production company.
你好，我是迈克尔·兰伯特。我是电影制片公司 Village Roadshow Pictures 的所有者。
Steve Jobs:
I know you well. You guys make some great movies.
我很熟悉你们。你们拍了不少好电影。
Unknown Speaker:
And I also own movie theaters, a thousand screens around the country, the fifth largest circuit in the country.
我还拥有一家院线，在全国有一千块银幕，是美国第五大院线。
So I'd like you to put your Disney hat on for a moment, not that you have a Disney hat, but being influential in the Walt Disney Company.
所以我想请你暂时戴上迪士尼的帽子——虽然你并没有真正的迪士尼帽子，但你在华特迪士尼公司具有影响力。
Steve Jobs:
I'm a Disney cheerleader. I have a hat.
我是迪士尼的啦啦队队长，我有帽子。
Unknown Speaker:
So wearing that hat, My question is around the consumer coming to the content versus the content chasing the consumer. And this is something that troubles me a lot in the business because as a producer of films, I'm a copyright owner.
那么戴上那顶帽子之后，我的问题是：让消费者主动找内容，还是内容去追逐消费者？这点在行业中让我十分困扰，因为作为电影制片人，我是版权拥有者。
It seems to me we've made a very good business all these years of making the consumer come to us. Forcing him to sit on the couch and interrupting him with commercials was a very good business for the content creator.
这些年来，让消费者来到我们这边一直是门好生意。让他们坐在沙发上，被广告打断，对内容创作者来说是一门不错的买卖。
Maybe not so convenient for the consumer, but very good for us. The economics around interrupting the consumer with commercials was good for us. Making the consumer pay to go to a movie theater is good for the producer of the content.
对消费者来说可能不够便利，但对我们很有利。通过广告打断消费者的经济模式对我们有利。让观众花钱进影院也对内容制作者有利。
The technology which allows The consumer to get immediate access to this is it changes those economics and you wear both hats.
但现在的技术让消费者可以立即获得内容，这改变了原先的经济模型，而你同时扮演着两种角色。
So I wonder if you could speak a little bit about how we preserve the value of the content and still the convenience.
所以我想听听，你如何看待在保障内容价值的同时，又能兼顾便利性？
Speaker 2:
Thanks for asking that because frankly I was going to ask you about when will the media company.
谢谢你提出这个问题，因为说实话，我正打算询问媒体公司何时……
Steve Jobs:
You know it's really interesting that the opportunities of technology are huge for content owners in my opinion. They always have been and As an example, the way that we market movies is undergoing a radical shift.
在我看来，技术给内容拥有者带来的机遇非常巨大，这一点一直如此。举例来说，我们宣传电影的方式正在经历一场彻底的变革。
It used to be that you spent a fortune running advertising on TV to run your trailers. And now, we can reach that same audience much more effectively on the web.
过去，制片方要在电视上投入巨资播放预告片。而现在，我们可以通过网络更加高效地触达同样的观众群。
Through whether it's Facebook, through whether it's targeting, targeted communication with loyalty groups, whatever it might be. You know, when we went to the music companies, we said, who is your customer?
无论借助 Facebook 这样的社交平台，还是通过精准投放、与忠实用户群体进行定向沟通，都能做到。你知道，当我们去找唱片公司时，我们问他们：谁是你们的客户？
And they said, oh, it's Best Buy and Target. And what was the record company? Tower. Tower Records, that was it. Tower Records, they thought their distribution channel was their customer.
他们回答说：哦，是百思买、塔吉特。以及唱片零售商？Tower Records，对，就是 Tower Records。他们认为自己的分销渠道才是客户。
You know, in the same way that people making movies might think that your movie houses are their customer, but they're not. Their customer is the viewer, just as the music company's customer is the listener.
同样，电影制作方也可能把电影院视为客户，但事实并非如此。他们真正的客户是观众，就像唱片公司的客户是听众一样。
The music companies had no connection with their listeners whatsoever. And so, what changed in the music industry was not the back end of the business, the A&R, the seeking out and developing of artists and talent over, you know,
唱片公司与听众之间毫无直接联系。因此，音乐产业发生变化的地方并不是业务的后台——也就是 A&R（艺术家与曲目部门）、发现并培养艺术人才这一环节——
which is just as important now as it ever was. What changed was the front end of the business, the distribution and marketing became, was able to be done in a much more effective way,
这一环节如今依旧重要。真正发生改变的是业务的前端：发行和营销环节能够以更高效的方式来完成，
bypassing the distribution channel and going direct to the end user. And that's what's going to happen in visual media as well.
绕过传统分销渠道，直接面向终端用户。这同样会发生在视频媒体领域。
And the marketing is going to get a lot more interesting, more precise, cheaper, efficient, but the content is going to be just as valuable, if not more valuable in the future.
市场营销将变得更加有趣、更精准、更低成本、更高效率，而内容的价值在未来仍然会保持，甚至可能更加宝贵。
So what the studios need to do is to embrace this new front end of the business, to start knowing who their customers are, and to start building mechanisms to communicate with them and tell them when their new product is coming out.
因此，电影公司需要做的是拥抱这一新的业务前端，开始了解自己的客户是谁，并建立与他们沟通的机制，告知他们新作品的上线时间。
And also to let them watch it wherever they want, whenever they want.
同时还要让观众能够随时随地观看内容。
Speaker 2:
And when do you think that will happen? I'm just curious.
那么你认为这种情况什么时候会出现？我只是好奇。
Steve Jobs:
It's starting to happen now in television because people, the studios feel, same guys, right, that make movies and TV shows.
现在电视行业已经开始出现这种趋势，因为那些制作电影和电视节目的制片公司——他们对电视内容的保护性较弱，或者更愿意进行尝试。
They feel less protective or they're more willing to experiment with their television properties than they are their film properties. So you're starting to see it in television.
他们对电视作品的保护欲不那么强，或者说更愿意在电视资产上进行实验，所以你开始在电视行业看到这种变化。
You can get TV shows now, in some cases for free, the day after they're broadcast. In some cases, in our case, we sell them the day after they're broadcast. And you're starting to see it more and more with film too.
现在，观众可以在节目播出后的第二天免费观看某些电视剧；在我们的平台上，也可以在播出后的第二天付费购买。类似的模式在电影领域也越来越常见。
So I think that is changing a lot in the next 24 months.
因此，我认为接下来的 24 个月里，这一变化将十分显著。
Speaker 2:
Okay.
好的。
Speaker Jobs:
I even think there's going to be a way to watch a first run movie at home before it comes out on DVD if you're willing to spend a bunch of money.
我甚至认为，只要你愿意花一大笔钱，将来在家里观看首映电影会早于发行 DVD。
Speaker 2:
A bunch of money.
要花很多钱。
Speaker Jobs:
A bunch of money.
很多钱。
Speaker 2:
I guess over here.
我想这边有人要提问。
Unknown Speaker:
Hey, Steve. Don McCaskill from SmugMug. You may remember a couple of years ago we talked about this, but I think it's even more pressing. I love my iPad.
嗨，Steve。我是 SmugMug 的 Don McCaskill。你也许记得几年前我们讨论过这个问题，但现在更紧迫了。我很喜欢我的 iPad。
My two-year-old loves my iPad, and I buy the truck versus car analogy, but it seems like there's a sort of a gaping hole in that analogy right now. You have great syncing of contacts and mail and calendar,
我的两岁孩子也爱 iPad，我接受你“卡车 vs 轿车”的比喻，但现在似乎还有个巨大缺口：你的设备能很好地同步联系人、邮件和日历，
I can buy my apps and update them over the air, but I still have to tether to get what is arguably the birth of this platform, which is music and videos on my devices.
我可以空中购买并更新应用，可要把音乐和视频——这算是这个平台的起点——放进设备，却仍得用线缆连接。
Speaker Jobs:
Well, that's not exactly true. You can buy music and get it on your device over the air, and you can buy video and get it on your device over the air. iTunes Store is on all those devices and it does flow over the air.
其实不完全对。你可以空中购买音乐并下载到设备，也可以空中购买视频并下载到设备。所有这些设备都有 iTunes Store，内容都是通过无线传输的。
Unknown Speaker:
But I have a large iTunes library that I built up thanks to you over the last eight years.
可我这八年来在你的平台上累积了庞大的 iTunes 音乐库。
Speaker Jobs:
No, what you'd like to do is share your library of media amongst your various devices. Yeah, it's not buying it without a wire. Yeah, without a wire. It's not buying it on that device because you could buy it all on that device.
不，你想要的是在多台设备之间共享自己的媒体库。问题不是“无线上购买”，因为你在设备上本来就可以买；而是“无线共享”。
Speaker 2:
It's the tethering. No, it's thinking.
问题是线缆连接——不，是同步。
Speaker Jobs:
It's the sharing.
准确说是共享。
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
对。
Speaker Jobs:
You want to share your content that you've bought or somehow otherwise acquired amongst your various devices.
你想在多台设备之间共享你购买或以其他方式获得的内容。
Speaker 2:
And you can't do that today, right?
而现在还做不到，对吧？
Speaker Jobs:
You can do that today with a wire. You cannot do that today without a wire. We need to work harder on that.
有线可以，无线还不行。我们得在这方面再下功夫。
Speaker 2:
We do.
确实如此。
Speaker Jobs:
We do.
确实如此。
Unknown Speaker:
Thank you.
谢谢。
Speaker 2:
You really can't even do it with a wire because it'll blow away. It'll say, well, if you're going to sync with this PC or this Mac.
即便用线缆也不行，它会“跳掉”。它会提示：“要与这台 PC 或这台 Mac 同步吗？”
Steve Jobs:
No, no, but if it's your content, you can do it all real easy. It just takes a wire.
不，不，如果是你自己的内容，用根线就能轻松全部搞定。
Speaker 2:
So you're going to do better.
所以你们会改进。
Steve Jobs:
We need to do better.
我们确实需要做得更好。
Speaker 2:
OK. Anytime soon.
好的。会很快吗？
Steve Jobs:
We're working on it.
我们正在努力。
Unknown Speaker:
Hi Steve, David Roth. I love my iPhone. My wife loves her iPhone. And we have no concerns about the speed of the AT\&T network or the data robustness. Our concern is that we can't make a phone call on it.
嗨，Steve，我是 David Roth。我喜欢我的 iPhone，我妻子也喜欢她的 iPhone。我们对 AT\&T 网络速度和数据稳定性都不担心，担心的是它打不了电话。
We live in Houston, not San Francisco or New York, and the network has gotten so bad in the last year that we can't be on the phone for more than a minute without dropping a call,
我们住在休斯敦，不是在旧金山或纽约。过去一年里，网络差到打电话超过一分钟就会掉线，
and if we're on the phone for five minutes, the call drops three times every time. Is somebody from Apple working on that?
如果通话五分钟，每次都会掉线三次。苹果有人在处理这件事吗？
Steve Jobs:
Somebody from Apple's talking about that. I mean, we don't have people that, you know, climb up on poles and adjust antennas because we don't know anything about that. But yeah, you can bet we're doing everything we know how to do.
苹果内部有人在讨论这事。我们可没有能爬杆调天线的员工——那不是我们的专长。但你可以肯定，我们正在尽己所能解决。
Unknown Speaker:
Can I expect relief soon?
我很快能得到改善吗？
Steve Jobs:
I'll tell you what I'm told, and I'm told this by credible people who are extraordinarily open and honest with us about their problems, which makes me tend to believe people when they tell me things.
我告诉你我听到的消息——来自一些非常可信、对自身问题极其坦诚的人——这让我倾向于相信他们的话。
Unknown Speaker:
When...
什么时候……
Steve Jobs:
I know little about this stuff technically. This is not my area of expertise. To make things better, people reallocate spectrum. They take spectrum that they weren't using or were using for something else and allocate it to this problem.
在技术上我不太懂这些，这不是我的专长。要改善现状，运营商会重新分配频谱，把未使用或用于其他目的的频段腾出来解决这个问题。
And they do things like increase the backhaul. So they put in gigabit Ethernets instead of T1s that they had. And they put in more robust switches to switch the data.
他们还会增加回程带宽，用千兆以太网替换原本的 T1 线路，并安装更强大的交换机来转发数据。
Things, in general, when they start to fix them, get worse before they get better. That's what I'm told. And if you believe that, things should be getting a lot better soon.
通常情况是，刚开始修复时先变糟再变好——我是这么被告知的。如果这一点可信，那么状况很快就会大为改善。
Speaker 2:
So...
那么……
Steve Jobs:
A serious answer to your question, I am told that a lot of places are getting a lot better, you know, certainly by the end of the summer. And I believe the people that are telling me that truly believe it and are high competency people.
严肃地回答你的问题，有人告诉我很多地方的状况正大幅改善，至少到今年夏末一定会好转。我相信这些消息来源，他们确实相信这一点，而且专业能力很强。
Speaker 1:
And if they don't?
如果没改善呢？
Steve Jobs:
Then they won't. We'll see.
那就没改善。我们拭目以待吧。
Speaker 2:
Laura?
Laura？
Unknown Speaker:
Hi, my name is Laura Yeses. I'm the CEO of SugarSync. We're a cloud service that allows you to synchronize your data between all of your devices.
你好，我叫 Laura Yeses，是 SugarSync 的首席执行官。我们是一项云服务，可让你的所有设备之间同步数据。
Steve Jobs:
Yeah, I know you guys.
是的，我知道你们。
Unknown Speaker:
Great. My question is related to the one just a couple of questions ago.
很好。我的问题与前面几位提到的类似。
We're very excited about the possibilities of interacting with your content, with your cloud-based content on the device, really as a smoother way to get access to your data so you don't have to tether.
我们非常期待能在设备上与云端内容互动，这样可以更顺畅地访问数据，而不必用线缆连接。
And we do a pretty good job of that now, but I think we could do an even better job if we could have access to the file system. On the iPad or the iPhone to have a true round-trip syncing capability. Any plans to do that?
目前我们做得还不错，但如果能访问文件系统——在 iPad 或 iPhone 上实现真正的双向同步——就能做得更好。苹果有这方面计划吗？
Steve Jobs:
There's a lot of things we're working on. So, we should chat.
我们正在做很多相关的事情。有机会可以聊聊。
Speaker 1:
Okay, great. Okay, last three questions, very quick. Start here, here and that's it.
好的，太好了。再提三个简短问题，就这边，这边，然后结束。
Speaker 2:
Right there.
就那位。
Unknown Speaker:
Allison Sheridan from Raytheon. I bought the movie Up on Blu-ray DVD from Disney.
我是来自雷神公司的 Allison Sheridan。我买了迪士尼的《飞屋环游记》蓝光 DVD。
Steve Jobs:
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Unknown Speaker:
And it came with, you're welcome. It came with a digital download. That was great, so I could put it on my portable devices. So I bought my iPad, and I put it on there, and I bought the VGA adapter,
它附带了——不客气——一个数字下载。这太棒了，我可以把它放到我的便携设备上。所以我买了iPad，把它装上去，然后我又买了VGA转接器，
and I plugged it into my projector, and because I bought everything, I couldn't play it, because high-definition copy protection stopped me.
我把它插到投影仪上，然后因为我买了所有东西，结果却无法播放，因为高解析度拷贝保护（HDCP）阻止了我。
Had I ripped it to reverse copy protection, downloaded it from BitTorrent, I would have been able to play it. Can you talk at all about how HDCP is helping the anti-piracy effort?
如果我把它转录出来以绕过拷贝保护，或是从BitTorrent下载，我反倒能播放。你能谈谈HDCP是如何帮助反盗版的吗？
Steve Jobs:
We didn't invent this stuff. But you did deploy it. Well, the problem is the content owners, and in particular Hollywood, doesn't want the same thing to happen to them as they saw happen with Napster to the music industry.
我们并没有发明这些东西。——但你们确实部署了它。问题是内容所有者，尤其是好莱坞，他们不想看到和音乐行业当年被Napster冲击一样的事情再次发生在自己身上。
So they are desperately grasping at anything they can to try to keep that from happening. Can't blame them. And it's not their business. I mean, they're not in the business of copy protection. They're in the business of content creation.
所以他们拼命抓住一切能阻止这种情况发生的手段。我们不能怪他们。而且这本来也不是他们的专业，我是说，他们的业务不是拷贝保护，而是内容创作。
So, sometimes they grab the right straws and sometimes they grab the wrong straws. But if we want to host any of their content, if we want to sell any of their content, they are setting some of the rules about what we have to do.
所以有时候他们抓对了救命稻草，有时候则没抓对。但如果我们想要托管他们的内容，或是销售他们的内容，他们就会设定一些我们必须遵守的规则。
And if we don't want to do them, we try to persuade. But if we fail at persuasion, then we have a simple choice. I guess maybe explain the irony to them of their choice in that case. Yes, I understand, and I feel your pain. Thank you.
如果我们不想照做，我们会尝试说服他们。但如果说服失败，那我们就只有一个简单的选择。我想，在那种情况下，也许可以向他们解释他们选择中的讽刺意味。是的，我理解，也感同身受。谢谢。
Unknown Speaker:
Hi Steve, I'm Shervin Bishevar from Social Gaming Network. I wrote you a letter when I was in sixth grade with a new design of a Macintosh and I'm still waiting for my response. Seriously though, I think games are huge.
嗨，Steve，我是来自社交游戏网络的Shervin Bishevar。我六年级时给你写过一封信，附上了我设计的一款新的Macintosh，我还在等你的回复。不过认真地说，我觉得游戏的前景非常广阔。
I built my whole, on the iPhone and iPad, I built my whole company at Social Gaming Network on that vision. And I'd like to hear from you what your vision for gaming is on all of the new devices in the post PC era that you've talked about.
我整家公司都是基于这个愿景，在iPhone和iPad上建立起来的。我想听听你对在你提到的“后PC时代”新设备上，游戏发展的愿景是什么。
And I have a couple of suggestions very quickly. On the iAd platform and on The social gaming network that you're launching, one is a unified platform for currency for games and apps,
我也有两个快速建议：关于iAd平台和你们正在推出的社交游戏网络，第一是为游戏和应用建立一个统一的虚拟货币平台，
and two is similar types of offer platforms in iAd like OfferPal that have really helped take social gaming on Facebook to such big numbers.
第二是在iAd中加入类似OfferPal那样的奖励型广告平台，这类平台在Facebook上极大推动了社交游戏的发展。
Steve Jobs:
So, what's your question?
所以，你的问题是什么？
Speaker 1:
Your vision of social gaming.
你对社交游戏的愿景。
Steve Jobs:
Your vision of gaming.
你对游戏的愿景。
Speaker 2:
Social gaming.
社交游戏。
Steve Jobs:
Clearly, iPhone plus iPod Touch have created a new class of gaming. And it's a subset of casual gaming, but it's surprising how good some of the games are.
显然，iPhone加上iPod Touch创造了一种全新的游戏类别。它属于休闲游戏的一个子集，但一些游戏的质量令人惊讶地好。
And some of them are even approaching console gaming in their sophistication and graphics. And The typical console games, as you know, the software costs \$30 to \$40 a game.
其中一些游戏在复杂度和图形表现上甚至接近主机游戏。而你知道，普通主机游戏的软件售价通常是30到40美元一款。
On an iPhone or an iPod Touch, the games cost between free and, you know, \$3, \$4. So the markets exploded. And we think it's terrific.
而在iPhone或iPod Touch上，游戏价格从免费到三四美元不等。所以这个市场爆炸式增长。我们认为这非常棒。
We didn't set out to compete with Nintendo or Sony on their PSP, but we are now a significant part of that market. And it's not just the iPhone, it's the iPod Touch as well.
我们一开始并没有打算与任天堂或索尼的PSP竞争，但现在我们已经成为那个市场的重要一部分。而且不仅仅是iPhone，iPod Touch也是如此。
Which, as an example, last holiday season, we sold as many iPod Touches as we sold iPhones. It doubled our volume. So it's not an insignificant player in this as well. And now we have the iPad, a third product on that same platform.
举个例子，去年假期季我们卖出的iPod Touch数量和iPhone一样多。这让我们的出货量翻了一倍。所以iPod Touch在这个市场中也不是一个微不足道的角色。而现在我们还有iPad，这是这个平台上的第三款产品。
And so it's proving to be really exciting in the gaming area. And there are now over 50,000 game and entertainment titles on the App Store. Many, many of them for free. So we take it very seriously.
所以这一平台在游戏领域正在展现出极大的活力。目前App Store上已有超过五万个游戏和娱乐类应用。其中很多都是免费的。所以我们对此非常重视。
We were the first folks to get OpenGL ES 1.0 and 2.0 on a phone and all these kinds of things. If you have any other suggestions for us, I heard the two you made, let us know.
我们是第一批将OpenGL ES 1.0和2.0引入手机的厂商，还有其他类似技术。如果你对我们还有其他建议，我已经听到你提出的两个了，请随时告诉我们。
Because we're trying to do the right things to enable more gaming and a lot of stuff in the social gaming world.
因为我们正在努力做对的事情，以推动更多游戏的发展，尤其是在社交游戏领域。
Unknown Speaker:
The last one is the microtransactions.
最后一个建议是关于微交易。
Speaker 1:
I know, I know, Shervin.
我知道，我知道，Shervin。
Speaker 2:
Plenty.
太多了。
Speaker 1:
You can ask him yourself.
你可以亲自问他。
Speaker 2:
Dan?
Steve Jobs:
I got it.
我知道了。
Unknown Speaker:
Hi, I'm Dan Simkin, CEO of Hillcrest Labs. Steve, you know, what was a topic that was noticeably absent tonight in your talk was television.
你好，我是Hillcrest Labs的CEO Dan Simkin。Steve，你知道吗，在你今晚的演讲中，有一个明显缺席的话题，那就是电视。
And you talked about how to make the iPad and the iPhone, you need to throw out the human interface in order to really make those products interactive.
你谈到在打造iPad和iPhone时，必须摒弃传统的人机交互方式，才能真正实现产品的互动性。
Do you think it's time to throw out the interface for television, the classic up, down, left, right, and bring in a new human interface to make television truly interactive? And if so, when is Apple going to do something in that arena?
你是否认为是时候抛弃电视那种经典的“上下左右”操作界面，引入一种新的交互方式，让电视真正实现互动？如果你这么认为，Apple准备什么时候在这个领域有所行动？
Steve Jobs:
The problem with the television market, the problem with innovation in the television industry is the go-to-market strategy.
电视市场的问题，电视行业创新的问题，核心在于市场进入策略。
The television industry fundamentally has a subsidized business model that gives everybody a set-top box for free or for \$10 a month.
电视行业基本采用的是一种补贴模式，让每个人都能免费或每月10美元拿到一个机顶盒。
And that pretty much squashes any opportunity for innovation because nobody is willing to buy a set-top box. Ask TiVo, ask Replay TV, you know, ask Roku, ask Voodoo, ask us, ask Google in a few months.
而这几乎扼杀了任何创新的机会，因为没人愿意额外花钱买机顶盒。你可以去问TiVo、Replay TV、Roku、Voodoo、我们，或者几个月后的Google。
So, all you can do, Sony's tried as well. I mean, Panasonic's tried. A lot of people have tried. They've all failed. So, all you can do is add a box onto the TV system. You can say, well, gosh, I noticed my HDTV has a bunch of HDMI ports on it.
所以你所能做的，只是再加一个盒子进电视系统。索尼也尝试过，松下也试过，很多公司都试过，全失败了。你可能会说，“嘿，我的高清电视有一堆HDMI接口。”
One of them is coming from the set-top box. I'll just add another little box with another one. Well, you just end up with a table full of remotes. Cluster full of boxes, bunch of different UIs, and that's the situation we have today.
其中一个接的是机顶盒，那我就再接一个盒子吧。结果就是桌子上摆满了遥控器，一堆盒子，一堆不同的用户界面，这就是我们现在的处境。
The only way that's ever going to change is if you can really go back to square one and tear up the set-top box and redesign it from scratch with a consistent UI across all these different functions and get it to the consumer in a way that they're willing to pay for it.
要改变这一切，唯一的方式是彻底从零开始，废除现有的机顶盒，从头设计一个具有一致用户界面的新系统，并以消费者愿意付费的方式交付到他们手中。
And right now, there's no way to do that. So, that's the problem with the TV market. You know, we decided what product do we want the most? A better TV or a better phone?
而眼下，没有任何办法做到这一点。所以，这就是电视市场的问题。你看，我们当初决定，我们最想要做什么产品？一台更好的电视还是一部更好的手机？
Well, the phone won out, but there was no chance to do a better TV because there's no way to get it to market. What do we want more, a tablet or a better TV?
结果手机胜出了，但想做一台更好的电视根本没戏，因为根本无法将其推向市场。那我们更想做什么？一台平板电脑还是一台更好的电视？
Well, probably a tablet, but it doesn't matter because if we wanted a better TV, there's no way to get it to market. The TV is going to lose until there is a viable go-to-market strategy. Otherwise, you're just making another TiVo.
也许是平板，但这也无所谓了，因为就算我们想做更好的电视，也没有办法推向市场。在没有可行的市场进入策略之前，电视注定要失败。否则，你只是在造另一个TiVo。
Does that make sense to you? Yeah, absolutely. That's the fundamental problem. It's not a problem with technology. It's not a problem of vision. It's a fundamental go-to-market problem.
这对你来说讲得通吗？——完全讲得通。这是根本性的问题。这不是技术问题，不是愿景问题，是一个市场策略的根本问题。
Unknown Speaker:
But obviously, in the phone area, you were able to recreate that go-to-market strategy by working with a carrier. So does it make sense to partner with a cable operator?
但显然，在手机领域你们就通过与运营商合作，重新定义了市场进入策略。那么，与有线电视运营商合作是不是也说得通？
Steve Jobs:
Well, then you run into another problem, which is there isn't a cable operator that's national. There's a bunch of cable operators.
那你又会碰到另一个问题——没有哪家有线电视运营商是全国性的。只有一堆各自为政的有线运营商。
And then, it's not like there's a GSM standard where you build a phone for the U.S. and it also works in all these other countries. No, every single country has different standards, different government approvals. It's a... It's very...
而且这不像GSM标准那样，你做一部手机在美国能用，在其他国家也能用。不是这样的。每个国家都有不同的标准，不同的政府审批流程。这是个……这是个非常……
It's very... What's the right word? Tauribablish. You know? Or that's not the right word. Balkanized. It's very balkanized. So I'm sure smarter people than us will figure this out.
这是个非常……我找个词……“碎片化的”（tauribablish？）你懂的？不对，是“巴尔干化”（balkanized）。这是个非常巴尔干化的格局。所以我相信会有比我们更聪明的人能解决这个问题。
But that's why when we say Apple TV is a hobby, that's why we use that phrase.
这就是为什么我们说Apple TV只是个“爱好”的原因，这话不是随便说的。
Speaker 2:
Steve, thank you.
Steve，谢谢你。
Speaker 1:
Everybody, Steve Jobs.
大家掌声欢迎，Steve Jobs。
Steve Jobs:
Thank you.
谢谢大家。