2021-12-07 Thomas Peterffy.Goldman Sachs 2021 US Financial Services Conference

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

All right. So joining us today, we've got Thomas Peterffy, Chairman of Interactive Brokers. Thomas founded Interactive Brokers in 1977. It was one of the pioneers of the financial services industry and especially in its automation. Thomas, thanks for joining us at the conference for the sixth straight year. And today's presentation will be a fireside chat.

好的，今天我们很荣幸请到 Interactive Brokers 董事长 Thomas Peterffy。Thomas 于 1977 年创立了 Interactive Brokers，是金融服务业的先驱之一，特别是在自动化方面。Thomas，感谢你连续第六年参加本次大会。今天我们将以炉边对话的形式展开交流。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to speak to this huge crowd.

感谢邀请。能与这么多听众交流我感到很高兴。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

So your business has continued to grow at a much faster rate than a lot of your competitors. It took a nice step function in terms of account growth during the pandemic. And in recent months, if anything, it's gotten even stronger. I think you recently said you expect the business to grow sustainably in the 30% range. What do you attribute Interactive Brokers' success in seeing such a dramatic acceleration in account growth?

你们的业务增长速度一直远超多数竞争对手。疫情期间，账户增长实现了一个跳跃式的提升，而近几个月甚至变得更加强劲。我记得你最近表示，公司有望长期维持约 30% 的增长率。你认为是什么原因促成了 Interactive Brokers 账户增长如此迅猛的成功？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

We're very good at what we do. And we feel very confident about our strategy. We will keep on driving home our major selling points, which is we keep driving down the spread, the bid-offer spread when we execute our customers' trades by getting in institutional orders to save the other side.

我们在自己擅长的事情上做得非常好，并且对我们的战略充满信心。我们会持续强化我们的核心优势，比如在客户交易执行过程中，通过引入机构订单来撮合对手方，从而持续压低买卖价差。

Number two, we remain and we will continue to be the lowest -- offering the lowest margin rate, roughly about 1% over Fed funds, to people without having to negotiate and all that, that they have to do with all the other brokers.

其次，我们始终并将继续保持业内最低的融资利率——大约只比联邦基金利率高 1%。而且客户无需像在其他券商那样繁琐地谈判，直接就能享受这一低利率。

We continuously display our short availability and the accompanying rates. This is again where a lot of brokers gouge their customers by first charging -- we had a customer the other day who came in and was paying 16% to borrow Tesla. I mean it is -- these people should be in jail, sorry.

我们持续公开展示可做空的股票以及借券利率。而在这一点上，很多券商是严重坑害客户的。有位客户最近转到我们这来，之前在别家借 Tesla 股票做空，居然被收取了 16% 的借券利率。说实话，这种行为简直应该进监狱。

We lend out our fully paid shares to customers who want us to. We guarantee, obviously, the return, and we share the benefits 50-50.

我们还会将客户全额付款持有的股票出借给其他客户（前提是客户授权），我们保证回报，并与客户五五分成。

We provide the largest global product base, we hope, that is immediately available online. And we give out the best research and trading tools, and we keep on working at that and keep adding to it.

我们希望自己提供的是全球种类最全的线上可交易产品。同时我们也提供最优质的研究和交易工具，并持续在此基础上不断优化、不断扩展。

And all these factors are responsible for us having reached 7% market share in U.S. listed stocks and 10% market share in U.S. options in November. So we want to be the platform of choice for the hardest-working, most cost-conscious and most successful investors.

正是由于上述这些因素，我们在 11 月已达到美国上市股票市场 7% 的份额，在美股期权市场的份额达到 10%。我们的目标是成为最勤奋、最关注成本、最有成就的投资者首选的平台。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

And I guess we've been in just this really euphoric period for retail trading since the pandemic began. I guess pretty much every retail platform has seen much higher volumes and much higher kind of trading frequencies among their customers. What do you make of this trend? Are we at a new normal in terms of retail engagement? Or do you think we'll trend back to where we were in 2019 and prior over time?

自疫情开始以来，零售交易市场几乎处于一种狂热的状态。几乎每家零售平台都见证了交易量和客户交易频率的大幅上升。你如何看待这种趋势？你认为我们已经进入了零售投资者参与度的新常态，还是说最终会回落到 2019 年及以前的水平？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So I do not know the answer to that question, but I like what's going on and hope it will continue because it's not only good for us. It's also good for the industry and it's good for the country.

这个问题我也没有确切答案，但我喜欢当前的发展趋势，并希望它能够持续下去。因为这不仅对我们有利，对整个行业也是好事，对国家同样如此。

Because as people trade more and become aware of how companies are on and what they do for a living, they begin to understand that it is not the evil corporations who run the world, but it is the individual citizens who buy their -- consumer and investment choices are running the corporations. So I hope that the trend will continue.

当人们更多地参与交易，并逐渐了解公司是如何运作的、靠什么赚钱时，他们会明白，主导世界的不是所谓的“邪恶公司”，而是每一个消费者和投资者的选择——正是这些个人的消费与投资决策在推动企业的运行。所以我真心希望这种趋势能持续下去。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

Got it. And I guess one thing that doesn't always get as much attention is the growth in international accounts. Something like 3/4 of the growth is coming from international, pretty similar to the mix of your accounts. How much of the growth is coming from Interactive Brokers taking share from competitors in these markets versus just the natural expansion of the market over time?

明白了。我想有一点常常没有受到足够关注，那就是国际账户的增长。大约四分之三的增长来自国际市场，这与你们账户的分布相当接近。那么这些增长中有多少是因为Interactive Brokers从这些市场的竞争对手那里夺取了市场份额，又有多少是市场自然扩张的结果？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So we take share from our peers, both in the United States and outside. But outside, it is much easier because there is a much lesser established broker-dealer culture and technology that we have to compete with versus the United States. But I would say that more than 50% of the customers who come to us outside of the U.S., this is their first brokerage account.

我们在美国国内和国际市场都在从同行那里夺取市场份额。但在美国以外的市场，这一过程要容易得多，因为在这些地区，经纪交易商的文化和技术尚未充分建立，相较美国的竞争对手，我们面临的竞争压力要小得多。我可以说，在我们美国以外的客户中，有超过50%的人是第一次开设证券账户。

And so 47% of our U.S. clients -- sorry, the average age of our U.S. clients is 47 years old. The average age of our Chinese clients is 42. And the average age of clients from anywhere else in the rest of the world is 39. So it's understandable that as living standards are increasing rapidly in many parts of the world, our job is to educate these people about markets and how to invest in them. And so our goal is to attract the top 1% to 2% of the world's population as measured by financial education and know-how.

我们的美国客户平均年龄是47岁，中国客户的平均年龄是42岁，其它国家和地区的客户平均年龄是39岁。可以理解的是，随着世界许多地方生活水平的迅速提升，我们的工作就是向这些人普及市场知识和投资方法。因此，我们的目标是吸引全球在金融教育和知识方面排名前1%至2%的人群。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

I guess you hit on that, the top 1% to 2%. Interactive Brokers often called it a semi-professional trading platform. Your customer metrics suggest you're going after that much more sophisticated customer. Do you foresee a point where Interactive Brokers serves the more buy-and-hold retirement-focused investors?

我想你刚才提到的那1%至2%的人群很关键。Interactive Brokers经常被称为一个半专业的交易平台。从你们的客户数据来看，你们瞄准的是更精通投资的客户。那么你是否认为Interactive Brokers未来会开始服务那些更偏向买入持有、以退休为目标的投资者呢？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So our strategy has been the same for over 4 years. Automate, automate, automate. That -- we develop our platform for the most sophisticated of hedge funds, and then we know that anybody else can use it and it's going -- it has to be good enough for them. So we don't really go after the buy-and-hold customer, but we welcome them. If they come to us, we do not charge custodial fees, we do not charge ticket charges. So if they want to come to us, they are welcome. But we -- our target customers are the more sophisticated folks.

我们的战略在过去四年里始终如一：自动化，自动化，再自动化。我们开发平台是为了满足最复杂的对冲基金的需求，因此我们知道其他任何客户也都能用得上——平台对他们来说一定是够用的。所以我们并不主动去争取买入并持有型客户，但我们欢迎他们来。如果他们选择我们，我们不会收取托管费，也不会收取交易手续费。因此，只要他们愿意来，我们非常欢迎。但我们锁定的目标客户，始终是那些更为专业的投资者。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

And then maybe just to round out the discussion a little bit on the client base. Some of the other parts of your business don't get as much attention. So RIAs, hedge funds, proprietary traders, you really don't see a lot of these customer segments at most of the publicly traded peers. How do you think the value proposition that you bring to these customers kind of resonates? And then how do you think about the growth opportunity across these client segments?

我们再补充一下关于客户群的讨论。你们业务中的某些部分没有得到太多关注，比如RIA（注册投资顾问）、对冲基金、自营交易员等。在大多数上市同行中很少看到这些客户群。那么你们为这些客户提供的价值主张是如何与他们产生共鸣的？你们又如何看待这些客户群体的增长机会？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So these clients are very important, too. As I've just said, we basically create the software for the most financially sophisticated clients because, as I said earlier, best execution, the lowest cost -- lowest transaction cost to achieving that is very, very important for us. And many of our lesser -- less knowledgeable clients don't even realize it even though it enhances their return.

这些客户对我们也非常重要。正如我刚才所说，我们基本上是为金融最为专业的客户开发软件。因为正如我早前提到的，最佳执行、最低交易成本——实现这一点对我们来说至关重要。而我们的很多不那么专业的客户其实并没有意识到这一点，尽管这确实提高了他们的投资回报。

So these clients, the more professional ones, are obviously are more profitable to us because other than executing the trades, we also lend them money and we lend them stock and they use many other or maybe all the facets of our platform. And so that creates profit for us and it exercises our platform and new leads come up and that we are anxious to get client input about what it is that we could do to keep improving the platform.

这些更专业的客户显然为我们带来了更高的利润，因为除了帮助他们执行交易外，我们还向他们提供融资、出借股票，而且他们还会使用我们平台的许多功能，甚至可能是全部功能。这为我们带来了利润，也推动了平台的全面运转，促使我们不断获得新的业务线索，并迫切希望从客户那里获得反馈，以便持续改进平台。

So we have become known as the go-to prime broker for new hedge funds. As a matter of fact, Preqin, which is one of these publications that keeps track of these things, has listed us as the fastest-growing prime broker for 3 years in a row now for hedge funds with $20 million plus AUM, which is, of course, very small, but that's -- they keep track because that's how I think you have to report to the SEC.

我们现在已经被视为新兴对冲基金的首选主经纪商。事实上，Preqin——一家专门追踪这些信息的出版机构——已经连续三年将我们评为资产管理规模超过2000万美元的对冲基金中增长最快的主经纪商。当然，这个规模不算大，但我认为这是他们需要向SEC报告的分类口径。

Now investment advisers are another very important segment for us. We have created a lot of software for these people, where they can group their accounts in -- dynamically into different groups and allocate, trace to them, so they can run -- where one person can run hundreds or thousands of accounts very easily simultaneously. So that is a facility that many RIAs who come to us really appreciate very much.

注册投资顾问（RIAs）是我们另一个非常重要的客户群体。我们为这类客户开发了大量软件功能，使他们能够动态地对账户进行分组、分配和跟踪，使得一个人可以轻松地同时管理数百甚至数千个账户。这一功能深受前来使用我们平台的许多RIA客户的高度认可和赞赏。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

And you've mentioned several times about your focus on best execution. Your Smart Order Router is really a unique asset among your brokerage peers, most of which are out everything to market makers. Could you talk about the technology underlying the routing system and just how it benefits IBKR and its customers?

你多次提到你们对“最佳执行”的关注。你们的智能订单路由器（Smart Order Router）在同行中堪称独特，而大多数券商则将订单直接导向做市商。你能否谈谈这个路由系统背后的技术原理，以及它如何使IBKR和客户受益？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So many of you in the audience may not know that Interactive Brokers has come from a market-making background. We started as market makers in the late 70s. And by middle 80s, we were completely automated market makers. Although in the United States, all the exchanges were still open outcry. But as exchanges started to open automate -- electronic exchanges started to open in Europe and Asia and Australia and Canada, we connected to all of them, and we were pumping in bids and offers over the time in an automated manner. And we consume the trades in an automated manner and updated our prices, et cetera.

可能在场的很多人不知道，Interactive Brokers最初的业务是做市。我们从70年代末开始做市，到80年代中期我们已经是完全自动化的做市商。尽管当时美国的所有交易所仍然采用“喊价制”（open outcry），但随着欧洲、亚洲、澳大利亚和加拿大陆续出现电子交易所，我们也接入了这些市场，以自动化方式持续提供买卖报价，并自动撮合交易、更新价格等。

So obviously, the skeleton of this was our order routing system. So by the early 2000s, we were by far the largest automated market maker in the world, but we also had a little brokerage company growing up on the side because we figured that buying out that brokerage -- this big network that we already have. And then as other folks started to come into the business, they started to buy order flow. And we couldn't reconcile the idea of trading against our own customers that didn't pass the smell test.

显然，这一切的基础就是我们的订单路由系统。到2000年代初，我们已经是全球最大的自动化做市商。同时我们还发展出了一个小型经纪业务，我们当时的想法是利用我们已经建立起来的庞大交易网络把经纪业务买下来。但随着越来越多的竞争者进入这个行业，他们开始购买订单流（order flow）。而我们无法接受与自己客户对赌的做法——这种做法在我们看来道德上说不过去。

可能有更细节的、损害客户利益的做法。

So we sold the market maker, but we retained the order router. And ever since that time, we have a small group that is continuously working on that order router. As new exchanges come into existence and new trading rules come in, we continuously have to update that order router. But -- so our order router is basically the crown jewel of our platform. Other brokers, they may not even have an order routing system. Or if they have one, it must be very old because they haven't used it in many years. So if the SEC wants to do anything about this, I don't know what they will do.

所以我们出售了做市业务，但保留了订单路由器。从那以后，我们就有一个小团队专门负责持续优化这套路由系统。随着新交易所的诞生和新交易规则的出现，我们必须不断更新它。可以说，我们的订单路由系统是整个平台的“皇冠上的明珠”。其他券商可能压根没有自己的路由系统，或者就算有，也已经多年未更新，系统非常陈旧。所以如果SEC想要对这个问题做点什么，我不知道他们该怎么着手。

And so more recently, we have started to recruit institutional order flow to come and trade with our retail order flow or semi professional order flow. So we have 2.6 million orders coming in a day that we execute, where we're looking for an opposite side. So we have started to talk to BlackRock and Vanguard and others about taking the other side of these orders. And so far, they are very welcoming, but they move very, very slow.

最近，我们开始引入机构订单流，让他们与我们的散户订单或半专业客户订单进行对接。我们每天有260万笔订单需要撮合，所以我们已经开始与BlackRock、Vanguard等公司接洽，希望他们来作为这些订单的对手方。目前他们态度很积极，但推进速度非常缓慢。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

Makes a lot of sense. Could we talk a little bit about the marketing strategy? I mean IBKR has always had a much smaller marketing budget for a company of your size. And you recently commented you'd be stepping up the marketing investments. I want to get to the ESG product that you recently rolled out here in just a second. But I guess more high level about the marketing strategy, given the customer lifetime values are so high, how much would you be willing to invest in customer acquisition in order to lean into your growth opportunity?

听起来很有道理。我们能谈一谈你们的营销策略吗？IBKR作为一家规模如此之大的公司，营销预算一直相对较小。你最近提到会加大营销投入，我稍后想谈谈你们最近推出的ESG产品。但从更高层面来看，考虑到客户的生命周期价值很高，你们在客户获取方面会愿意投入多少资金以抓住增长机会？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So there is no limit to what we would invest only if we could find a really productive way to do that. We have developed the system that measures the return that we get on each marketing dollar or advertising dollar coming back from a channel. And what we find is that as we increase the spending, we very soon reach a limit where additional dollar spend becomes counterproductive because what happens is that as you spend more, you don't only increase the cost of the next account, but you will increase the cost of all the accounts coming from that channel. So you're paying a lot more for the accounts that you previously had gotten much cheaper when you were only getting a few.

我们在客户获取上的投入没有上限，只要能找到真正高效的方法。我们已经开发了一套系统，能够衡量从每一个营销渠道投入的每一美元所带来的回报。我们发现，当支出增加到一定程度时，很快就会出现“收益递减”的现象——不仅是新增账户的获取成本上升，甚至会导致原本成本较低的账户获取成本也同步上升。也就是说，当你少量投放时账户获取成本很低，但一旦放量，整个渠道的平均成本就都会被拉高。

So it is a very difficult situation. And the conclusion is that you, of course, have to have -- instead of increasing the spending in channels that you have, you have to keep on working on getting new channels. But there aren't too many of them that are -- where the spending is very productive. So it's a difficult situation, but I think we have found a way that works for us and -- but I'm not going to tell you the details.

这确实是一个非常棘手的问题。结论是：与其在现有渠道上不断加大投放，不如持续开发新的渠道。但问题是，可用的新渠道并不多，而且真正有效的就更少了。这是一个难题，但我认为我们已经找到一种适合我们的方式……不过我不会告诉你具体细节。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

So I guess you highlighted on the earnings call there was one upcoming product you were looking forward to accelerating marketing on the ESG IMPACT product. Could you talk a little bit more about the product and where you're seeing the demand from your customer base?

你在财报电话会上提到一个即将加大营销力度的新产品——ESG IMPACT应用。你能详细谈谈这个产品，以及你们从哪些客户群体中看到对它的需求吗？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So we're very proud of this new product that we call the IMPACT app. It's -- you can find it on -- in the App Store and download it in 30 seconds. It's called IBKR IMPACT. And if you have an account, you can trade in it instantaneously. If you don't, it's not too complicated to open and fund one.

我们对这款名为IMPACT的新产品感到非常自豪。它已经上线，你可以在App Store里搜索并在30秒内下载完成，名字是IBKR IMPACT。如果你已经有账户，可以立刻开始交易；如果还没有账户，开户和入金的流程也并不复杂。

The idea behind the app is that it prompts you to signify your values as far as environmental and social issues are concerned, and the app will help you pick stocks that are confirmative with your specific values and rate your holdings accordingly. If you don't like your ratings, it will suggest substitutions for you. And it also accepts charitable donations, and we are now connected to over 30,000 charities that you can donate to.

这款应用的核心理念是鼓励用户表达他们在环境和社会议题方面的价值观，然后应用会帮助你筛选与这些价值观相符的股票，并根据你的持仓为你打分。如果你对评分不满意，它会为你推荐替代股票。同时，它还支持慈善捐赠，目前已经接入了超过30,000家可供选择的慈善机构。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

That sounds exciting. I remember 3 years ago in 2018, the first time I hosted you at the conference, you talked for the first time about a slowdown in account acquisition out of Asia and some of the capital controls that China had put up at the time. More recently, I think you talked about 2 of your introducing broker clients, Tiger and Futu and some of the data privacy laws that have gone into effect in China. Can you maybe just give us the state of the union in Asia? What are some of the challenges and opportunities that you're kind of facing out of Mainland China?

听起来很令人振奋。我还记得三年前，也就是2018年第一次在大会上邀请你参加时，你首次提到来自亚洲的账户增长放缓，特别是当时中国实施的一些资本管控。最近，你也谈到过你们的两个引荐经纪商客户——老虎证券（Tiger）和富途证券（Futu）——受到中国实施的数据隐私法律影响。你能不能介绍一下你们目前在亚洲，特别是在中国大陆的整体情况？目前面临的一些挑战和机遇有哪些？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So about 1.5 years ago, our account growth was extremely high in China, and then it suddenly came to a stop. So that at that time, we had about 20% of our accounts in China. So if you do a little math, you realize that if you have your 20% of your return some place and say your growth rate is 50% and that 20% plummets to 0%, then your entire growth will go down by 20% to basically 40% from 50%. So whatever the percentage of your accounts are in any channel that suddenly goes to 0%, that's the same percentage by which your growth rate will shrink.

大约一年半以前，我们在中国的账户增长非常迅猛，然后突然戛然而止。当时我们大约有20%的账户来自中国。你稍微算一下就知道，如果你有20%的增长来自某个渠道，整体增长率是50%，而那20%的渠道增长突然变为0，那么你的总体增长率就会从50%降到40%。也就是说，任何一个渠道的占比是多少，一旦该渠道增长归零，你的整体增长率也会相应地减少这个比例。

Well, luckily enough, we were over the top segment. 1.5 years, we were able to replace those channels by other countries in the neighborhood and also in the rest of the world. So -- but the fact is that the growth from China is still not.

好在我们属于行业中的高端部分。在这过去一年半里，我们已经用周边国家及世界其他地区的增长渠道替代了中国的这部分增长。但事实是，来自中国的增长仍然停滞不前。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

Got it. Makes sense. And I guess it's a natural segue to talk about the introducing brokerage business. In general, there's been a lot of innovation in fintech over the past several years. So companies like SoFi and Square are offering stock trading services to their customers using an introducing broker model. How is Interactive Brokers positioned to serve the fintech space? And would you consider doing that through an introducing broker model? Would you consider other partnerships?

明白了。这也很自然地引出关于引荐经纪业务的讨论。过去几年，金融科技领域出现了很多创新，比如SoFi和Square这些公司开始通过引荐经纪模式为客户提供股票交易服务。请问Interactive Brokers如何定位自己在Fintech领域的角色？你们是否考虑通过引荐经纪商模式拓展合作？是否也在考虑其他类型的合作？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Well, we do have. We do have the introducing broker model, and then we are actively marketing it. But it basically depends on when you're talking about these folks who are adding stock trading to their general payment and offering. The question is how sophisticated a platform they want. Robinhood has succeeded in convincing the world that a very simple platform with 0 commissions is the recipe for a great business. And that -- maybe I will not argue with that because, as I said, I'm very happy with efforts that bring more folks into the investing area because the more people learn about and get involved in investing, the more stable our society will become, I think.

我们确实有引荐经纪商模式，而且我们也在积极推广。但关键在于，你提到这些将股票交易功能嵌入其支付或理财服务的平台，这就取决于他们到底需要多复杂的交易系统。Robinhood成功让世界相信，一个简单易用且零佣金的平台就是好生意的秘诀。对此我也不会反对，因为如我先前所说，任何能吸引更多人进入投资领域的努力我都欢迎——人们越了解投资、越参与其中，社会的稳定性就越高，这是我的观点。

But also, it is a fact that we get a steady stream of accounts from, for example, Robinhood. And while their average account size is about $40,000, the people that come to us have an average size of $75,000, which for us is still small, but for Robinhood, it is supposedly very large.

但事实也是，我们从像Robinhood这样的平台获得了稳定的客户流入。虽然Robinhood的账户平均规模大约为4万美元，但这些转投到我们平台的客户平均账户规模达到7.5万美元。对我们来说这仍属小额，但对Robinhood而言，这已经算是“大客户”了。

So if you want to add brokerage to your platform and -- you may as well pick Interactive Brokers. Otherwise, if you pick a simpler introducing broker, then some of your more valuable clients who become wealthier want a more sophisticated platform, they will leave you and they come to us anyway.

所以说，如果你打算在自己的平台上新增券商服务，选Interactive Brokers就是顺理成章的事。否则，如果你选的是一个更简单的引荐经纪商，当你的高净值客户变得更富有、想要更专业的平台时，他们终究还是会离开你，转而来到我们这里。

更高端、更专业的定位。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

So I guess this year has been a bit of a wild ride for crypto. Crypto prices seem to be ending the year towards the highs. You rolled out crypto trading over the summer with some very attractive pricing. What do you think about the crypto space? And how do you see the crypto opportunity for Interactive Brokers?

今年对加密货币来说可以说是一段颠簸之旅。现在看起来，加密货币价格年底正接近年内高点。你们在今年夏天推出了加密货币交易服务，且定价非常有吸引力。你对加密货币这个领域怎么看？你认为它对Interactive Brokers来说是怎样的一个机会？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So just like anyone else who is not convinced about crypto, I'm very confused. Because on the one hand, if the government cannot control certain illicit activities that use crypto as their vehicle, they may completely shut it down, in which case it will become worthless.

就像其他对加密货币仍持怀疑态度的人一样，我对此感到很困惑。一方面，如果政府无法控制利用加密货币进行的非法活动，他们可能会选择彻底封杀它，在那种情况下，加密货币将变得一文不值。

On the other hand, there is a very small chance that the U.S. dollar will become worse. So I have a very small portion of my net worth in crypto. And if anybody else wants to do that or your registered investment adviser wants to do that, tell them that at this time, Interactive Brokers is the only place where you can run an integrated securities portfolio that contains crypto.

但另一方面，美元变得更糟的概率虽小，也不是完全没有。因此，我把自己一小部分净资产投入了加密货币。如果其他人也想这么做，或者你们的注册投资顾问想这么做，可以告诉他们，目前Interactive Brokers是唯一可以持有包含加密货币的综合证券投资组合的平台。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

Got it. And I guess you've been pretty outspoken for a long time in the bet around payment for order flow. What do you think the SEC is focused on payment for order flow right now? And what do you see as the most likely outcomes?

明白了。我记得你长期以来都直言不讳地反对订单流支付（payment for order flow）。你认为SEC现在对订单流支付的监管关注点是什么？你觉得最有可能的结果会是什么？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Well, I think the most likely outcome will be more disclosure because they can't -- in the way I see it, they can ban payment for order flow because the same mechanism happens all the time and has happened for 200 years with large brokerage firms. Or the big investment banks who have a sales department -- a trading department, the sales department gets their accounts and sends the orders to their trading department. But since they are all one firm, the payment is not disclosed in the financial statements or maybe there isn't even an actual payment. But nevertheless, it's the same model.

我认为最可能的结果是加强信息披露。因为在我看来，SEC不太可能直接禁止订单流支付机制——这个模式在过去200年间一直广泛存在于大型券商中。大型投行往往设有销售部门和交易部门，销售部门负责获取客户并将订单发给交易部门。由于它们属于同一家公司，这种内部转移不会出现在财务报表中，甚至可能根本没有实际付款。但实质上，它与订单流支付是同一个模型。

So if they were to ban crypto, I think that the big market makers will all try to buy some of the brokers and become just like all the other investment banks. So if I'm right and the conclusion is more disclosure, that will benefit us because we finally could compare our execution as to that of other brokers.

所以如果他们真的禁止订单流支付，那些大型做市商很可能会收购一些券商，转型为传统投行的模式。但如果我的判断正确，监管最终要求的是更高程度的信息披露，那么这对我们反而是有利的——因为那样我们终于可以把自己的交易执行效果与其他券商作直接对比了。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

I guess one notable trend over the past few years has been the decline in your order execution costs, and your execution and clearing fees have been declining as a percentage of commissions over time. Could you talk a little bit about what's enabled you to achieve that improvement?

过去几年一个显著的趋势是你们的订单执行成本下降了，执行和清算费用在佣金中所占比例逐步下降。你能谈谈是什么促成了这种改善吗？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So well, it's 2 things. One, as I mentioned, we get institutional orders against which we cross our retail orders. We do that in our dark pool and there is no exchange cost. Second, exchanges are now paying instead of charging. There is basically a war for -- among exchanges for market share. So the exchange fees are going away it seems.

有两个原因。第一，如我之前提到的，我们会用机构订单与零售订单进行对冲，这是在我们的暗池（dark pool）中完成的，因此不涉及任何交易所费用。第二，现在交易所之间在进行市场份额的争夺战，它们开始给付而不是收费。所以交易所费用似乎正在消失。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

Got it. That makes sense. I guess one question on just options trading in general. Retail options trading has been incredibly strong since the start of the pandemic and has been continuing pretty strongly this year. Do you think retail investors are cognizant enough of the risks of trading options? And I guess maybe talk a little bit about what Interactive is doing on the investor education front.

明白了，合理。我有一个关于期权交易的问题。自疫情开始以来，散户期权交易非常火爆，并且今年仍在强劲增长。你认为散户投资者对期权交易的风险是否有足够的认知？另外，能不能谈谈Interactive Brokers在投资者教育方面做了哪些工作？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Well, yes, I do think that they are cognizant of the risks and especially -- I mean, I don't know, but I know that our customers are cognizant on the risk. And we actually give you a test when you want to trade options in our platform before we allow you to. And we have a large number of various educational materials and videos, et cetera, that help you in understanding how options work.

是的，我认为他们对风险是有认知的。特别是——我不能代表所有人说，但我知道我们的客户确实了解风险。实际上，当你想在我们的平台上交易期权时，我们会在允许你交易之前进行测试。我们也提供大量的教育材料、视频等资源，帮助用户了解期权是如何运作的。

Also, the large -- the large rise in options volumes, that is all about the war for market share among the exchanges because there is an exchange now that pays $0.80 for a contract if you write your orders to them.

此外，期权交易量的大幅上升，在很大程度上也是交易所之间为争夺市场份额所引发的竞争所致。现在有一家交易所，如果你将订单发送到他们那儿，他们会为每张合约支付$0.80。

Now we have some clients that go for cheap options, which are $0.10 commission per contract. The exchange pays you $0.80. So there are some clients here who are trading very cheap options that basically don't move the price back and forth and back and forth, and they pay us $0.10 and the exchange pays them the $0.80 and we pass that on to them. It's a fun game.

我们有些客户专门交易那些便宜的期权，每张合约佣金是$0.10，而交易所会支付他们$0.80。所以这些客户基本上在做的是不改变市场价格的来回交易——他们付我们$0.10，交易所给他们$0.80，我们再把这$0.80返还给他们。这成了一种“有趣的游戏”。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

Good business. The company has invested a lot in compliance and risk management over the past couple of years. Could you bring us up to speed on the investments that you've made in your BSA and AML platforms and maybe what the headcount trends have looked like more recently?

不错的业务。过去几年，公司在合规与风险管理方面投入了大量资源。你能否介绍一下你们在《银行保密法》（BSA）和反洗钱（AML）平台方面的投资进展？最近在人力资源方面有哪些变化？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Yes. So compliance is a difficult task because there is not a set of written rules that tell you exactly what you have to do. So what you have to do is you have to hire consultants who sort of figure out what you in your specific situation should do. And so we have to write an awful lot of programs and have to hire an awful lot of people. We hired some 300 people into compliance over the last 2 years. And we have a lot of software for them, and that's what we do. On the long run, I guess, that becomes a competitive advantage because it becomes a barrier for smaller firms to come into the business.

是的。合规是一项很棘手的任务，因为没有一套明确的书面规则告诉你该做什么。你必须雇佣顾问，帮助你在特定情况下判断应该怎么做。因此我们不得不编写大量程序，并招聘大量员工。过去两年，我们在合规团队中新增了大约300人。同时我们也为他们开发了很多软件工具。这就是我们正在做的事情。从长期看，这反而成了一种竞争优势，因为它构成了小型公司进入这个行业的门槛。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

Right. Makes sense. Maybe just one question about the stock itself. I mean IBKR still has a relatively low float relative to the overall size of the company. I think most people are aware you have a 10b-5 program to reduce your holdings over a very long time frame. What does the path towards a higher float look like over time? And are there any options that you would consider to accelerate that path?

明白了。有个关于股票本身的问题。相较于公司的整体规模，IBKR目前的自由流通股（float）占比仍然偏低。我想大家都知道你已经启动了一个10b5-1计划，打算在非常长的时间里逐步减持。那么，从长期来看，公司提高流通股比例的路径是什么？你是否会考虑加快这一进程的方式？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So Will, I really don't want to accelerate. For -- at this rate, I'd be out of the stock in 60 years. And for one thing, I cannot imagine a better investment for me at least than Interactive Brokers. And if people see that the Founder and Chairman keeps all his money in Interactive Brokers, maybe they will do, too.

Will，我确实不想加快这个过程。按目前的减持速度，我要60年后才能把持股全部出清。至少对我个人而言，我无法想象还有什么投资比Interactive Brokers更好。如果人们看到创始人兼董事长把所有的钱都投在IBKR身上，或许他们也会选择这么做。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

I guess one last question before we run out of time. You run a really extremely profitable business. The company has no debt, very high margins. You've been pretty consistent in the past that you're not interested in repurchasing shares. Could you just talk about the capital allocation strategy and how you think about putting some of the capital to work that the business generates?

我们还有最后一个问题。你运营的业务非常赚钱，公司没有债务，利润率极高。你过去一直明确表示对回购股票没有兴趣。你能否谈谈你们的资本配置策略，以及你是如何考虑运用公司所创造的资本的？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So we currently have over $10 billion of capital, but the large prime brokers have a lot more. And even though we do not take counterparty credit risk and as long as I have all my money in the company, we never will. But the capital is important for us because we have, right now, I think 11 offices that are independent, that are wholly owned subsidiaries around the world in different jurisdictions. And they each have their own capital requirements. And as we expand around the world, we are looking at having more and more of them and so capital is important for us from that point of view. So as we earn it, we deploy it, and that will go on for probably the next $10 billion.

目前我们拥有超过100亿美元的资本，但大型主经纪商的资本体量还要高得多。尽管我们不承担对手方信用风险，只要我还把所有的钱都投在公司里，我们永远也不会承担。但资本对我们来说依然非常重要。我们目前在全球多个司法辖区拥有大约11家独立的全资子公司，它们各自面临不同的资本要求。随着我们在全球的扩张，这类子公司将会越来越多，因此从这个角度来看，资本对我们来说至关重要。所以我们的策略是赚到的资本继续投入，这种情况预计还会持续到再增加100亿美元为止。

William Nance Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

Makes a lot of sense. Well, Thomas, we're out of time. I really appreciate you joining us today. It's been great as always speaking with you.

非常有道理。Thomas，我们时间到了。非常感谢你今天的参与。像往常一样，非常高兴与你对话。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Thank you very much. It's a real pleasure.

非常感谢。很高兴参加。

2021-12-07 Thomas Peterffy.Goldman Sachs 2021 US Financial Services Conference

2021-12-07 Thomas Peterffy.Goldman Sachs 2021 US Financial Services Conference

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