2022-06-08 Thomas Peterffy.Piper Sandler Global Exchange & FinTech Conference

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

Welcome, everybody, to Piper Sandler's Global Exchange and FinTech Conference. This is the 18th year that we've been having this conference. It's great to be back after a 2-year hiatus, and it's great to see New York City back and alive and rebounding. So we have a great lineup. I'm excited about our speakers today. We have 17 speaking sessions today. Overall, there's 22 company sessions, 19 of 22 are the CEOs representing their companies, including Thomas, which will give a more formal introduction here in one second. We also have 4 panels.

欢迎大家来到Piper Sandler全球交易所与金融科技大会。这是我们举办的第18届大会。经历两年中断后，很高兴能再次回归，也看到纽约市重新充满活力、正在复苏。今年的嘉宾阵容非常强大，我对今天的发言人们感到非常兴奋。今天将举行17场发言环节，总共有22家公司的发言场次，其中19位是公司CEO出席，包括Thomas，一会我会正式介绍他。此外还有4场小组讨论。

And of course, I think a lot of you've heard right now about our keynote speakers, Chair Gensler of the SEC; Bob Greifeld, formerly of Nasdaq and the Chairman of Virtu; and finally, Glenn Hutchins of North Island will be the keynote speaker tomorrow. So with that, we'll get started. And again, it's great to be back. I want to introduce our first speaker, Thomas Peterffy. He founded Interactive Brokers. I mean, well, first, you went public in 2007, and it was founded many years ago. But Thomas is really known for being the pioneer of electronic trading. He brought -- we still talk about the computer that he had, a box that he brought to the CBOE floor that was -- he was able to calculate the price of options. And I don't know how they calculate it.

当然，我想大家都已经听说了我们的主题演讲嘉宾，包括SEC主席Gensler、前纳斯达克CEO兼Virtu董事长Bob Greifeld，以及来自North Island的Glenn Hutchins，他将在明天发表主题演讲。好了，我们现在开始。再次强调，很高兴能回到现场。我想介绍我们的第一位演讲嘉宾，Thomas Peterffy。他是Interactive Brokers（盈透证券）的创始人。其实，2007年公司才上市，但创立的时间要早得多。Thomas真正为人所知的是他是电子交易的先驱。我们至今还在谈论他当年带到CBOE交易大厅的那台电脑——一个“盒子”，他用它来计算期权价格。我不知道他当时是怎么计算的。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

'83.

1983年。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

1983\. Okay. So he passed over the CEO reins in June of 2019, but he's still very involved with the leadership of Interactive Brokers so Thomas first, great to see you again and to be back live.

1983年。好。那么Thomas在2019年6月卸任了CEO职务，但他仍然深度参与Interactive Brokers的管理事务。所以首先，Thomas，很高兴再次见到你，也很高兴能重回现场。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Thank you.

谢谢你。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

So first question is, well, we have our fire back too. So that made it have to -- still going after -- so the big thing I think I'm going to ask every CEO is this current environment. There's uncertainty about inflation, interest rates, the geopolitical risks. And I guess the question is, you're an experienced market veteran. Is there anything that compares to this and how is Interactive performing with -- given this macro environment, this unique macro environment we're in today?

第一个问题是，我想问每一位CEO的核心问题：当前的宏观环境充满不确定性——包括通胀、利率、地缘政治风险等。作为一位经验丰富的市场老兵，你认为历史上有哪个时期可以与当下相比较？在这种独特的宏观环境下，Interactive Brokers的表现如何？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So maybe it's somewhat similar to the 70s, the Carter years in many ways. But here, I'm talking to a sophisticated audience, so you probably know better than I do. Bottom line is I expect the market to go down to the 3,500, 3,600 range because I do not believe that the Fed will be able to raise interest rates above the inflation rate, so they will be stuck under the inflation rate, so I expect inflation to continue at 5% to 6% and the Fed funds rate the part at 4%. That's my view, but it's just a guess.

也许在很多方面，现在的情况有点类似于70年代卡特执政时期。但我面对的是一群非常专业的听众，或许你们比我还清楚。归根结底，我预计市场将下探至3500至3600点区间，因为我不认为美联储能把利率提高到高于通胀率的水平，他们最终会被卡在通胀率之下。所以我预计通胀将持续在5%到6%之间，而联邦基金利率可能停在4%左右。这只是我的看法，不过也只是猜测。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

It's going to be interesting to see how things turn out here. I know internally, the Piper Sandler people feel that are a little bit gloomy on the future here -- the near-term future of the market. But besides the macro uncertainty, we've seen big upticks overall. Since the time we sat physically together in '19, we've seen big upticks in retail activity. And just wanted to get your view, there has been a pullback with tech valuations here more recently and a semi pullback, but if you still compare the levels we're at today to 2019, we're elevated. So I guess, what do you feel like is the driver because your clients -- it's not about zero commissions with the majority of your clients. So what do you believe is the retail -- driving the retail activity? And then sort of what's the outlook given this uncertainty we have in the markets overall?

我们很期待接下来市场会如何发展。我们Piper Sandler内部其实对市场的短期前景有点悲观。但撇开宏观不确定性不谈，自2019年我们上次面对面见面以来，整体散户交易活动显著增加。尽管近期科技股估值出现了回调，算是部分修正，但与2019年相比，目前的交易活跃度仍处于高位。我想问的是，你怎么看这种驱动力？因为你们的客户大多数并不是靠“零佣金”驱动的。那么你认为目前是什么在推动散户的交易活跃？而在当前这种不确定的市场环境下，你对未来的展望如何？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Well, the activity is much higher, especially in options. It has a great deal to do with investor education. And here I have to pay a compliment to the likes of Robinhood who brought in millions of young people who are not familiar with the market. And so that's a huge thing that they've done in that way. As far as our customer activity is concerned -- the softening began in the Far East, around the end of the year, then starting at the end of February in Europe, the account openings have slowed down and trading volume and in anything from Europe also slowed down.

的确，交易活动明显提升，尤其是在期权领域。这与投资者教育关系很大。我必须表扬一下Robinhood这样的公司，他们吸引了数百万原本对市场不熟悉的年轻人参与进来，这是非常了不起的事情。就我们自己客户的活跃度而言，交易活动的放缓最早出现在远东地区，大约是在去年年底；随后从2月底开始，欧洲市场也出现开户减少、交易量下降的情况。

But the U.S. and Americas were not affected up until May when the tech stocks kind of collapsed and that has impacted those folks. But if the market really comes down to the level where I think it will come down to retail activity certainly will decrease. We will not suffer as much as many of our peers because many of our customers are professionals who will continue trading during those times. But whatever goes on here, the rising interest rates will make up for the diminution of trading volumes. So I don't expect a real hit from that. I would expect that the smaller, newer brokers who have many, many small accounts with the interest income is negligible will have hard times.

但在美国和其他美洲市场，情况在今年5月前基本没有受到影响，直到科技股开始大幅回调，这对那部分投资者造成了冲击。如果市场真的跌到我预测的水平，散户的交易活动肯定会下降。但我们受到的冲击不会像同行那么大，因为我们的客户中有很多是专业投资者，即使市场低迷他们仍会持续交易。而无论市场如何变化，利率上升所带来的利息收入将能够弥补交易量下降的影响，所以我并不担心会遭遇真正的打击。相反，那些规模较小、新成立的券商，他们客户多数是小账户，利息收入微乎其微，在这种环境下会面临较大困难。

韧性。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

It appears there's some segmentation going on where it's the newer, smaller retail investors that might be getting shaken out of the market given the valuation. Your traders are more driven by volatility, which is still elevated. But you grew your accounts by 56% year-over-year in the first quarter, a very strong number. And I guess given the reset that you just talked about in not only in Asia but in Europe as well, is your outlook still that you can grow accounts? How do you feel about account growth going forward given?

看来市场上正在出现某种“分层”现象——那些新入场的小型散户可能因为估值下跌而被迫退出市场。而你们的交易者更多是受到波动率驱动，而当前波动率依然处于高位。另外你们今年一季度的账户数量同比增长了56%，这是非常强劲的表现。但考虑到你刚才提到的亚洲和欧洲市场的放缓，你对未来的开户增长是否仍然保持乐观？你现在对开户增长的预期如何？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So for the last 12 months, our accounts are up 36%. I don't know about the 56%, but maybe you're right, per quarter, right? But over the last 12 months, it's up 36%. So our most affluent source of new accounts are word of mouth. We continuously have to come up with new products and new features to keep our clients engaged and to entice them to go and talk to other potential clients, and that's been working for us. But we have to bicycle very hard -- have to peddle our bicycle all the time. I can't let up. And it is true that the new accounts are not as profitable as the old ones because as I said earlier, we started with recruiting market makers from the floors.

过去12个月，我们的账户增长了36%。我不太确定你说的56%是怎么来的，也许你指的是季度同比？但按过去12个月来看是36%。我们最主要的新客户来源其实是“口碑传播”。我们必须不断推出新产品和新功能，让客户保持粘性，同时也吸引他们向潜在客户推荐我们，这一直对我们很有效。但我们得一直“猛蹬自行车”，不能松劲。而且确实，新账户的盈利能力没有老账户强。正如我之前说的，我们最初的客户主要是从交易所场内招募的做市商。

And so they were our customers. And to the extent they are still alive. We like our customers and they trade all day long because that's what they do. And so the new customers are different. They are retail. Basically most of them are retail customers who don't trade so often so while our accounts have been up 36% for the last 12 months, our trading volume. And here, I would correct for the first 3 months of last year, which was crazy. But correcting for that, our trading volume is still up only 15%. So which meaning that the new clients don't trade as often as the old ones.

这些做市商是我们的核心客户，他们至今仍在交易，他们就是全天都在交易的人。而现在新增的客户大多是散户，基本上都不那么频繁交易。所以，虽然我们账户总数在过去一年增长了36%，但我们的交易量，尤其是扣除掉去年前三个月的“非理性高峰”后，增长幅度仅为15%。这说明新客户的交易频率明显低于老客户。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

You talked about, again -- well, first, I hope Milan is actually pedaling the bike like you. You can give the bicycle to him a little bit.

你刚刚说的很好——不过首先我希望Milan也像你一样在“蹬车”，你可以把这辆“自行车”稍微交给他蹬一会。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Milan is our CEO.

Milan是我们的CEO。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

Yes. And so you talked about how growth has slowed in certain segments of the world, namely Asia. We've gotten a lot of questions because you were getting accounts and activity from Eastern Europe. So the impact of the Russia-Ukraine, both on accounts and I guess -- but it also increased volatility as well so a double-edged sword.

对，你刚才提到某些地区的增长放缓，比如亚洲。我们也收到很多问题，因为你们过去从东欧地区获得了很多开户和交易量。那么俄乌冲突对账户和交易量有什么影响？当然它也带来了波动率的提升，这是不是一个“双刃剑”？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So, not really. I mean the fact is that the impact on new accounts and trading volume from Europe is huge, namely there are much fewer new accounts and the trading volume is much, much less. And so I think the war will sooner or later settle out or if it doesn't, we'll get used to it and the trading will be back, but the sanctions will remain. And the sanctions, they cause very, very high energy prices and the energy prices suck away resources from the people that otherwise would go into savings and investments that will not. So as a result, I think that this is not going to have a positive impact on our business or generally the financial sector.

实际上不是那样。说实话，俄乌战争对我们在欧洲的新开户数和交易量影响非常大，开户数大幅下降，交易量也减少得很多。我认为这场战争迟早会结束，或者即使不结束，我们也会慢慢适应，交易活动也会回来。但制裁措施会持续存在。而制裁导致能源价格高企，这会吞噬原本可以用于储蓄和投资的资金。所以我认为，从整体来看，这不会对我们的业务，甚至整个金融行业产生正面影响。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

So we started the talk discussing the macro environment, the uncertainty and you have a trading model, but still higher rates with the strong likelihood of multiple, whether it be 7 or 8 rate hikes, Interactive Brokers is still positively impacted.

我们最开始谈到宏观环境和不确定性。尽管你们的业务模式以交易为主，但在当前利率上行周期中，不管是7次还是8次加息，Interactive Brokers仍然会从中受益，对吧？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Overall, yes.

总体上，是的。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

I guess whereas some of the firms that are concerned about people, they call it cash sorting and moving cash out. That's not really the case within Interactive programs.

我想有些公司很担心所谓的“现金搬家”（cash sorting）问题——客户把现金从账户中转出。但这似乎不是Interactive Brokers的问题，对吧？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So what we do is we pay interest to our customers on cash over the first $10,000, 1% to -- I mean, 0.5% under the Fed funds rate. So say, Fed funds goes to 2.5% we'll pay them 2% on all the cash in the account, except the first $10,000. And this goes for all accounts that have a volume of $100,000 or more when the volume of a total volume when account liquidating volume when account is only, say, $50,000, then we pay half as much. If it's $75,000 we pay 3 quarters as much. But over $100,000, we pay everybody 0.5% on the Fed fund rate for whatever, even if they just have a $2.50 in the account, it doesn't matter.

我们对客户账户中的现金支付利息，超过前$10,000部分，我们支付的利息是联邦基金利率减去50个基点。比如说，如果联邦基金利率是2.5%，我们就向客户支付2%的利息（超出$10,000的部分）。这个规则适用于总资产达到$100,000或以上的账户。对于低于这个金额的账户，比如$50,000，我们支付一半利息；$75,000的账户支付75%；但只要超过$100,000，无论账户里只有$2.50还是更多，我们都会按联邦基金利率减50个基点来支付利息。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

You've made a point I think Interactive has made it a point to be the most competitive, not only on commissions, but also on the interest rates on the margin loan rates as well and that.

我觉得Interactive Brokers一直在努力保持在各方面的高度竞争力，不仅在佣金方面，在保证金贷款利率方面也是如此。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Margin, margin loans, we -- our margin loan rates go from 0.5% above Fed funds rate to 1.5%. For very large loans, we charge 0.5%; for very small loans, 1.5% over and in between, we charge in between.

我们的保证金贷款利率是联邦基金利率加50到150个基点。大额贷款我们收取加50个基点，小额贷款加150个基点，中间规模的贷款就介于两者之间。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

Your advertising shows that your offering is highly competitive and put it that way. The one thing you've been -- I think Interactive Brokers is conservative overall, but one area that, that comes out is in your investment strategy with the cash. You've been short-term treasuries. And I asked you on the last call, was there any contemplation of change in that strategy?

你们的广告一直强调你们的产品极具竞争力。整体来说，我认为Interactive Brokers在经营上是相当保守的，其中很典型的一点就是你们的现金投资策略——你们一直投资短期国债。我在上一次电话会上问过你，有没有考虑改变这个策略？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

And there isn't -- I have made one mistake. I made an investment 2 years forward. I bought a treasury bond when it went up to -- suddenly it went up to 70 basis points. And I would -- that 2-year note and I shouldn't have, of course, because -- but -- so I will just stick to very, very short term within 3 months maturities.

并没有改变——我确实犯过一个错误。当时我买入了一笔两年期的国债，那时候收益率突然涨到了70个基点，我就买了。但事后看来不应该买。所以我现在坚持只投资非常短期的债券，限于3个月以内的到期日。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

And at some point, well, I know you reevaluate constantly. But is there some likelihood a year from now when the interest rate outlook is more stable, but you would consider something different in the investment strategy.

当然你一直在动态评估。但假如一年后利率走势更加明朗，你是否可能会考虑调整投资策略？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So no because, look, the way I feel about it is that I don't think we'll be able to tackle inflation, that we'll not be able to tackle inflation, and the inflation will continue to be rising, why, because as the Fed raise interest rates, the refinancing of the debt, the $30-plus-trillion of debt is going to become very expensive. So say if interest rate is 6.5%, the refinancing of the debt would cost $2 trillion a year, and that is extra deficit. And in my view, inflation comes from deficit spending, namely more money in circulation creates inflation. It's an old Austro-Hungarian view of money tree system. But it works.

所以，不会（改变投资策略）。我的看法是，我们根本无法有效控制通胀，通胀会持续上升。为什么呢？因为随着美联储加息，联邦政府要为那30多万亿美元的债务进行再融资，这会变得非常昂贵。假设利率升到6.5%，光利息一年就要花掉2万亿美元，这会进一步加剧财政赤字。而在我看来，通胀的根源就是财政赤字，也就是货币投放过多所致。这是奥匈帝国时期关于货币体系的经典观点，但它确实是有效的。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

You've proven your conservatism pays out in the long run, and is well capitalized as Interactive Brokers and the other strategies as well. So one thing, and I started off introducing you about it, but you've been -- the pioneer who brought automation to the options market, a market that -- I don't know, again, I said this, how you calculate a price of an option without a computer or something automated. So I guess the question is and I know you're still enthusiastic about the potential for options continually expanding even above this elevated level. And just so options right now are -- overall volumes are 2x-plus of what they were pre-pandemic. But you still feel bullish about the proliferation of options.

你已经证明了你的保守策略在长期中是成功的，而Interactive Brokers也拥有充足的资本和明确的战略方向。还有一点，我在开场时也提到过，你是将自动化引入期权市场的先驱。说实话，我很难想象没有电脑或自动化系统，人们要怎么计算期权价格。所以我想问的是，你现在仍对期权市场的持续增长感到兴奋，对吧？目前期权整体交易量已经是疫情前的两倍多，但你依然看好其进一步普及？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Yes. So I think that -- which -- and it's not I think, I know that options volumes have been gradually increasing since the first trade I done on the floor of the American Stock Exchange 45 years ago, first option trade, right? Over the last 45 years, the volumes have been gradually increasing. Now we are facing a situation where there is more and more education about options and that gets more and more people interested in the product. And we have 9% of the -- our customers have 9% of the U.S. options volume. And due to our special way of executing our option trades, I think we are going to have more and more of that market share. And I will explain how we execute our options, and it's a little bit complicated, so please pay attention.

是的。其实我不只是“认为”，我“知道”期权交易量一直在稳步增长。我45年前在美国证券交易所做了我的第一笔期权交易。从那时起，期权市场的成交量就一直在增长。现在的情况是，关于期权的教育越来越普及，这让越来越多的人对这种产品产生兴趣。目前我们客户的交易量大约占美国期权市场的9%。凭借我们在执行期权交易方面的独特方式，我相信我们会进一步扩大市场份额。接下来我会解释我们是如何执行期权交易的，这部分内容稍微有点复杂，请大家认真听。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

It's a sophisticated audience here.

我们在座都是专业人士，请放心讲。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Yes, sophisticated audience but for you to understand this, I first have to explain to you what the market maker does. So Timber Hill—we used to be called that—was our predecessor company, who was the largest global automated market maker from 1984 to 2015, 31 years. So this is the one topic that I really understand what I'm talking about. Otherwise, I don't really. So what does the market maker do? A market maker makes a bid and offer, right? And the highest bid and the lowest offer prevailing on all the exchanges constitutes the national best bid and the national best offer—or the NBBO, it's called, right?

是的，这是一群专业观众。但为了让你们理解我接下来要说的内容，我得先解释一下“做市商”是做什么的。Timber Hill 是我们公司早年的名称，我们是全球最大的自动化做市商，从1984年一直做到2015年，整整31年。所以这是我非常熟悉的话题，其他的我可能没那么有把握。做市商是干嘛的呢？做市商会同时报出买价和卖价（bid 和 offer）。所有交易所上最高的买价和最低的卖价就构成了所谓的“国家最佳买卖报价”（NBBO）。

So market makers make a bid and offer, and the highest bidder and the lowest offer generally gets to trade on the exchanges. And now what they do is they buy—some of the market makers buy order flow from the retail firms and they execute them at or slightly better than the NBBO. So in other words, they buy at their bid, which is lower than the offer, which they make where they sell. So they trade back and forth and that's how they make their money. And that sounds very easy, but it is not. What happens is that as they buy and sell, they get into a huge position. While we were market makers, our position was usually equal to 7%, more or less, of the open interest.

做市商会报出买价和卖价，出价最高、要价最低的那一方通常能在交易所成交。而现在，有些做市商会从零售券商那里购买订单流，然后以NBBO价格或稍优于NBBO的价格执行这些订单。换句话说，他们以自己的买价买入，以自己的卖价卖出，从中赚取差价。这听起来很简单，但实际上并不容易。因为在反复买卖过程中，他们会积累大量头寸。我们做做市商的时候，持有的头寸通常相当于总未平仓量的7%左右。

Keeping such a big position hedged is a very difficult task. So you need sophisticated algorithms that evaluate for each option whether one more of that—if you had one more of that option—would that reduce the risk in your position or would it increase the risk in your position? And accordingly, you decide whether you would like to buy this option or you would sell this option. But you don’t want to do both.

要维持这么大的头寸并进行对冲是非常困难的。所以你必须依赖高度复杂的算法，来判断你是否应该再增加一个某个期权头寸——即再多一个这个期权，是会降低你的整体风险，还是增加风险？然后你据此决定是买入还是卖出。但你绝不会想同时买又卖。

But while they buy this order flow, they have to do both because they are not in control of which side they do. They get the order, they have to execute it, right? So now we take advantage of the situation for our executions. And the way we do that is that we have made agreements with the 16 top market makers and liquidity providers. And the agreement says that when we get an option order, we show you how many of these options we have to buy or sell.

但对于做市商来说，他们买入了订单流（order flow），就必须同时做买和卖，因为他们无法控制订单的方向。他们接到什么订单就必须执行。而我们在执行客户订单时，就利用了这个结构性机会。我们与16家顶级做市商和流动性提供者达成了协议。协议规定，当我们收到一个期权订单时，我们会告诉这些做市商我们需要买入或卖出多少合约。

We don’t tell you which side we are on. And they give us a bid or an offer or both. And we take the best bid or offer depending upon which side we are on. And they also tell us at what exchange they would like to cross the trade. And if you take the best one, and we put up that contract for an exchange option, and on the exchange option, the market maker that we agreed with will, again, make the same bid or offer that he made us for our internal option.

我们不会告诉他们我们是买还是卖。他们报给我们买价或卖价，或者两者都有。然后我们根据自己的方向选择其中最优的一个。他们还会告诉我们希望在哪个交易所成交。我们选择最优报价后，会把这张合约提交到指定交易所进行交易。在交易所上，我们之前选定的那家做市商会再次以相同的价格挂出买卖盘。

And if there is no interference in the exchange option auction, he gets the trade. If there is interference and the customer gets a better execution. So in other words, we have 2 auctions. We have a private auction first with the 16 liquidity providers, and then we have a public auction on the exchanges. Now this sounds like it takes a long time, but all this gets done in about 300 milliseconds, the whole thing, right? So this enables us to give a much better execution than other people get. I think, although I cannot prove it, but it would stand to reason, right?

如果交易所竞价过程中没有其他人“插手”，那家做市商就成交了。如果有人参与报价，客户就会获得更好的成交价格。换句话说，我们会先进行一轮“私下拍卖”，在16家流动性提供者之间进行；然后再进行一轮公开拍卖，在交易所完成。这听起来好像很复杂，但整个过程只需大约300毫秒就能完成。正是这个机制让我们的执行效果远优于其他券商。我不能完全证明这一点，但按道理推断应当如此，对吧？

为期权交易做了底层算法的改进。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

But your active customers continue to pay you a commission.

但你们的活跃客户依然愿意为此支付佣金，对吧？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

That's right. That's right. So—but of course, for options, everybody charges the same commission because we all charge $0.65 and then—at least I don't know what others do—but we go down with volume. So the more options you create, the lower the commission becomes. But as far as stock executions are concerned, we do the same—not exactly the same, but similar. We also pledge the orders and see who is bidding or offering for the stock.

没错，没错。不过对于期权，所有券商的佣金基本是一样的，我们都是收每张$0.65。当然我不知道其他券商有没有不同的安排，但我们是会根据交易量下调佣金的。交易越多，佣金越低。至于股票的执行方式，我们也做类似的操作，虽然不是完全一样，但原理相似。我们也会竞标这些订单，看看谁的买卖报价最优。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

I joked and said our audience was sophisticated. I hope they absorbed that because a lot of the rest of the day is going to be talking about auctions. So Thomas just previewed what goes on in the options market in these mini auctions. It sounds like it takes a long time.

我刚才开玩笑说我们的观众都很专业，但我还是希望大家能理解这些内容，因为我们今天接下来的会议也会大量讨论“拍卖”这个话题。Thomas 刚刚提前向大家展示了期权市场中这些“小型拍卖”的运作机制，听上去好像很复杂、很耗时。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

I think we're the only ones who do this. I'm not sure, but I believe that we are the only ones. And the reason we know—we came up with this idea—is because having been an automated market maker, we know how it works. But I don't think other brokers do. So I believe that we may be the only ones doing this. That's why other brokers sell their orders. And if there is any truth to what the rumors are about prohibiting payment for order flow, the fact is that maybe they will not get paid, but they still have to send their orders to liquidity providers because they don't know what else to do. They don't have the software.

我想我们可能是唯一这么做的公司，虽然不能百分之百确定，但我相信的确如此。我们之所以能想到这种机制，是因为我们曾是自动化做市商，我们非常了解市场是怎么运作的。而我不认为其他券商知道这些操作。所以可能我们是唯一一家真正这么做的公司。这也就是为什么其他券商会把订单卖给做市商。如果未来真的禁止“订单流付费”（PFOF），那么这些券商可能不能再收钱了，但他们仍然得把订单发给流动性提供者，因为他们不知道该怎么自己执行，他们也没有这个系统。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

I mean, there's obviously—you're doing something right, again, have customers continue to pay. And I know options are a little bit different. But the idea that you attract these active traders and it's known throughout the industry that you have the best execution in options. So 2 last things I want to cover is probably—I mean, this is a highlight of my day, right, but another highlight will be Chair Gensler's speech at noon. And he's going to talk about options. And we suspect he'll talk about options. You gave a preview of what goes on in the options market, which has historically been an options market. Again, this has happened in milliseconds. This isn't a thing where you get the option collar or anything like that. But I guess my point is, what are your thoughts—just quick initial thoughts—on applying an option-type model to equities?

很显然你们做得非常成功，你们依然能吸引客户持续付费。我知道期权市场和股票市场不一样，但大家都知道你们的期权执行效率是业内最好的之一。我今天最兴奋的一件事就是这次对话，当然另一件值得期待的是中午 SEC 主席 Gensler 的讲话，我们怀疑他会谈到期权。而你刚刚已经向大家介绍了期权市场的内部机制，这些都发生在几百毫秒之内，不像“保护性期权领口”那类复杂结构。我的问题是，你如何看待将期权市场的拍卖机制应用到股票市场的设想？可以先分享你的一些初步想法。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

So since the exchanges have the—all the exchanges, I believe, have—there are 16 of them, I think—the option auction. All the options exchanges have them, and all the stock exchanges basically are options exchanges because they all have options, right? So that means that they all have the options auction infrastructure. So running the same software for stock is no different than running it for options. So I don't think the exchanges would have to do any programming other than configuration work.

目前所有交易所——我记得大概有16家左右——都设有期权拍卖机制。所有的期权交易所都具备这种机制，而这些交易所本身也都可以算作股票交易所，因为它们也交易股票。换句话说，它们都已经具备期权拍卖的技术架构。所以，如果要把这种机制应用到股票交易上，只需要配置参数，不需要重新开发软件。

I have something that I don't understand about this entire proposal, namely that—look at a firm like UBS or Citibank or J.P. Morgan, what do they do? They have a sales department and they have a trading department. Now, the sales department gets the orders, they send it over to the trading department, the trading department executes it, sends it back to the sales department. It is exactly the same as [Schwab] trade gets an order, sends it to Citadel, Citadel executes it, internalizing it, sends it back to Schwab and the trade is done.

但有件事我一直不太理解。看看像 UBS、花旗银行或摩根大通这样的公司，他们的架构是怎样的？他们有销售部门和交易部门。销售部门接到客户订单后会转给交易部门，然后交易部门完成交易再反馈回销售。这和比如 Schwab 把订单发给 Citadel，Citadel 内部成交后再发回 Schwab，实际上是一样的模式。

So I do not understand what goes on in the minds of the people who do this at the SEC, how they could make this discrimination that Schwab together with Citadel cannot internalize, while UBS or Goldman Sachs or any of the large investment banks can do it. And whilst it basically has worked that way forever, internalization has been the rule—certainly before the exchanges started, but even after exchanges, the exchanges only get the refused—the part where, as I said, they have to hedge themselves somehow every now and then.

所以我不明白 SEC 相关人士的思路到底是怎样的，为什么他们可以区别对待，让 Schwab 和 Citadel 不得进行内部撮合，而像 UBS 或高盛这样的投行却可以。这种“内部成交”的模式其实由来已久，甚至可以说早于交易所的出现；即使在交易所建立之后，大多数交易还是在内部完成的，交易所只处理那些被拒绝或者需要对冲的订单部分。

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

It's a great question. And I think you're going to join us for lunch till—hopefully, we'll maybe get some clarity at lunchtime. I want to wrap up last question and to see how fast Milan Galik can ride that bicycle is when we first met, you had a goal of being the largest broker in the world. You've certainly have had the fastest growth, the most growth, but being the largest broker in the world and obtaining 80 million accounts over time. And I know you truly believe it that you have the competitive pricing, the product, the technology, etcetera. So I guess is the goal—given that all the growth you've seen—is that goal still in sight?

这是个非常好的问题。我想你会和我们一起吃午饭——希望午餐时我们能得到更多答案。我想以最后一个问题来收尾，看看 Milan Galik 骑那辆“自行车”的速度如何。我们初次见面时，你的目标是成为全球最大的券商。你们确实实现了最快、最多的增长。成为全球最大券商、拿下8000万个账户——我知道你是真心相信你们拥有最具竞争力的定价、产品、技术等等。所以，我想问的是：考虑到你们迄今为止取得的增长，这个目标还在眼前吗？

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Absolutely. Absolutely. So we have tremendous advantages relative to our competitors, right? Because firstly, we charge interest rates on margin loans much, much lower than the other, as I said, we charge 0.5% to 1.5% over Fed funds, other folks charge 3%, 4%, 5% over. So it's a huge difference if you're a serious player. And [Traube Ameritrade] still has $80 billion, over $80 billion of margin loans, and we only have $41 billion or $42 billion. So there is still a lot of accounts to get from there.

当然，当然还在。我们相较于竞争对手拥有巨大的优势。首先，我们的保证金贷款利率远低于其他券商。正如我刚才说的，我们的利率是联邦基金利率加0.5%到1.5%，而其他券商通常是加3%、4%、甚至5%。如果你是一个真正有规模的交易者，这个差距非常大。Traube Ameritrade 现在仍有超过800亿美元的保证金贷款，而我们目前只有大约410亿到420亿美元，所以我们还有大量客户可以争取。

Our executions are better because as I just explained, how we execute options, it's very different and we don't sell our order flow. And our stock executions are very similar to our options executions. We do not charge custody fees. Now we hear more and more that more and more online brokers—I think by now, everybody charges custody fees. I don't—they range anywhere from 5 basis points to 25 basis points. It's a lot of money. We don't charge any of that.

我们的执行也更好。正如我刚才解释的，我们的期权执行方式非常特别，我们不出售订单流。我们的股票执行方式也与期权类似。而且我们不收取任何托管费。现在我们越来越多地听说，几乎所有在线券商都开始收托管费了，通常在5个基点到25个基点之间，这其实是很多钱。我们完全不收这笔费用。

We lend out your fully paid stock and we share the interest that we get 50-50 and we guarantee you against any losses.

我们会出借客户的全额持股，并将所获得的利息五五分成，同时我们为客户提供完全的损失保障。

We show our stock lending availability online, along with the lending rates. So you can make a decision immediately whether you're going to a short stock or not. Other places you have to call the broker and then you have to negotiate the rate.

我们在线展示股票出借的可用情况和借贷利率，因此客户可以立刻决定是否要做空某只股票。而在其他券商那里，你还得打电话联系经纪人，然后谈判利率。

We have 150 trading venues in 33 countries in 27 different currencies, and we keep on working on that, and we will have more and more and more in the years to come because we want to be all over the globe.

我们目前覆盖33个国家、150个交易场所，支持27种不同货币的交易，而且我们还在不断拓展。未来我们将接入更多更多，因为我们的目标是遍布全球。

And we offer hundreds of research analytics and trading tools, including [Agos] and Interactive tools and the platform is entirely free for any of our customers even if you—they only have $1 in the account. How can you beat that?

我们还提供数以百计的研究分析和交易工具，包括 Agos、Interactive 等等，而且我们的平台对所有客户完全免费，即便你账户里只有1美元也一样。这还有谁能比得上？

Richard Repetto Piper Sandler & Co.

Thomas, you've created a great firm. Thank you for being with us. What—your vision back of automating options, whether 30 to 40 years ago, is still play—the acceleration is still happening. The vision is still looking forward. And so it will be interesting to watch. So thank you.

Thomas，你创建了一家伟大的公司。感谢你今天的到来。从三四十年前你推动期权自动化开始，这个愿景至今仍在演进中，甚至还在加速发展。你始终怀有前瞻性眼光，这值得我们持续关注。谢谢你。

Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman

Thank you very much, Rich. Thank you.

非常感谢你，Rich，谢谢。

2022-06-08 Thomas Peterffy.Piper Sandler Global Exchange & FinTech Conference

2022-06-08 Thomas Peterffy.Piper Sandler Global Exchange & FinTech Conference

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