2025-01-21 Interactive Brokers Group, Inc. (IBKR) Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript
Interactive Brokers Group, Inc. (NASDAQ:IBKR) Q4 2024 Results Conference Call January 21, 2025 4:30 PM ET
Company Participants
Nancy Stuebe - Director of Investor Relations
Paul Brody - Chief Financial Officer
Milan Galik - President and Chief Executive Officer
Thomas Peterffy - Founder and Chairman
Conference Call Participants
Craig Siegenthaler - Bank of America
Benjamin Budish - Barclays
James Yaro - Goldman Sachs
Brennan Hawken - UBS
Dan Fannon - Jefferies
Patrick Moley - Piper Sandler
Chris Allen - Citi
Kyle Voigt - KBW
Operator
Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Interactive Brokers Group Fourth Quarter 2024 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants on the listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there'll be a question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] Please be advised, that today's conference is being recorded.
操作员
大家好，谢谢耐心等待。欢迎参加Interactive Brokers Group 2024年第四季度收益电话会议。目前，所有与会者均处于仅收听模式。在发言人发表讲话后，将有一个问答环节。[操作员指示] 请注意，今天的会议正在录音。
I will now like to turn the conference over to your speaker for today, Nancy Stuebe, please go ahead.
现在，我将会议交给今天的发言人Nancy Stuebe，请开始。
Nancy Stuebe
Thank you. Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us for our fourth quarter 2024 earnings call. Joining us today are Thomas Peterffy, our Founder and Chairman; Milan Galik, our President and CEO; and Paul Brody, our CFO. I will be presenting Milan’s comments on the business, and all three will be available at our Q&A.
南希·斯图贝
谢谢。下午好，感谢您参加我们的2024年第四季度收益电话会议。今天与我们一起的是Thomas Peterffy，我们的创始人兼董事长；Milan Galik，我们的总裁兼首席执行官；以及Paul Brody，我们的首席财务官。我将介绍Milan对业务的评论，他们三位将在问答环节回答问题。
As a reminder, today's call may include forward-looking statements, which represent the company's belief regarding future events, which by their nature, are not certain and are outside of the company's control. Our actual results and financial condition may differ, possibly materially, from what is indicated in these forward-looking statements. We ask that you refer to the disclaimers in our press release. You should also review a description of risk factors contained in our financial reports filed with the SEC.
提醒大家，今天的电话会议可能包含前瞻性声明，这些声明代表公司对未来事件的看法，但由于其性质的不确定性和公司无法控制的因素，实际结果和财务状况可能与这些前瞻性声明中提及的情况有实质性差异。我们请您参考新闻稿中的免责声明，并审阅提交给SEC的财务报告中所包含的风险因素描述。
In the fourth quarter, Interactive Brokers clearly demonstrated the power and leverage of a diversified fully automated global platform. The international interest in securities markets continues. We added 775,000 accounts in 2024, a record number of annual ads, 217,000 came on board in the fourth quarter alone. Our client equity was up 33% to $568 billion, an increase of $142 billion from last year and the first time we finished a year with over $0.5 trillion.
在第四季度，Interactive Brokers清晰地展示了多元化、全自动全球平台的实力和杠杆作用。国际市场对证券的兴趣持续增长。2024年，我们新增了77.5万个账户，创下年度新增账户数量的纪录，仅第四季度就新增了21.7万个账户。我们的客户权益增长了33%，达到5680亿美元，比去年增加了1420亿美元，这也是我们首次在年终时客户权益超过0.5万亿美元。
Rising markets and the anticipation of lower rates led clients to actively trade securities and to be comfortable with taking on risk. In addition to increasing their exposure to various markets, they chose to take on more leverage using margin loans and to take on more assertive positions, which increased our exposure fee revenue. This translated into strengthen our financials.
市场上涨和对利率下调的预期促使客户积极交易证券，并乐于承担风险。除了增加在各种市场的敞口外，他们还选择使用保证金贷款加杠杆并采取更激进的头寸，这增加了我们的敞口费用收入。这直接体现在我们财务状况的加强上。
Our quarterly pre-tax income was a record reaching over $1 billion for the time, while our GAAP pre-tax margin rose to 75% for the quarter. For the full year, we earned over $5 billion in net revenues for the first time and achieved a 71% pre-tax margin by far the highest in the brokerage industry. Over the past several quarters, we have added multiple new products and enhancements worldwide. We have spent a great deal of time to understand the needs of our various client types.
我们的季度税前收入创下新高，首次超过10亿美元，而本季度的GAAP税前利润率上升至75%。全年，我们的净收入首次超过50亿美元，税前利润率达到71%，是经纪行业迄今为止的最高水平。在过去几个季度中，我们在全球范围内推出了多种新产品和改进功能，并花费大量时间了解不同类型客户的需求。
For financial advisor clients, we enhanced our advisor portal with features that improve portfolio management and client communication. We added a multi-stock tax loss harvesting tool that helps reduce clients' tax burdens. We added models and model rebalanced tools that simplify applying consistent strategies across multiple accounts.
对于金融顾问客户，我们改进了顾问门户，新增了有助于改善投资组合管理和客户沟通的功能。我们新增了多股票税损收割工具，帮助降低客户的税务负担。我们还添加了模型和模型再平衡工具，简化了在多个账户上应用一致策略的操作。
We integrated a generative AI-powered commentary builder feature, which automates the creation of personalized performance summaries and is integrated with our portfolio analyst tool, allowing FAs to generate reports showing clear detailed portfolio data and commentary. To date, thousands of our users have generated commentaries. There will be more to come here in 2025.
我们集成了一项由生成式人工智能驱动的评论生成器功能，可以自动创建个性化的业绩总结，并与我们的投资组合分析工具集成，允许金融顾问生成显示清晰详细的投资组合数据和评论的报告。截至目前，已有数千名用户生成了评论。2025年将有更多改进。
For our clients who trade options, we have added four new liquidity providers to our options ATS, increasing its steps and capability to achieve better pricing. For after-hours traders, our stock scanners now support price movement in the overnight trading session, so our clients can see top gainers and losers and other groupings during the session.
对于交易期权的客户，我们在期权ATS中新增了四家流动性提供商，提升了定价能力和竞争力。对于盘后交易者，我们的股票扫描器现已支持隔夜交易时段的价格变动，客户可以在该时段查看涨幅和跌幅最大的股票及其他分组信息。
For international individual accounts, we have previously introduced an alphabet soup of popular savings products like ISA accounts in the UK and TPSC accounts in Hungary. And this year, we added PEA accounts in France, and we are the first non-French brokers to do so. More will be coming.
对于国际个人账户，我们之前已经推出了一系列受欢迎的储蓄产品，例如英国的ISA账户和匈牙利的TPSC账户。今年，我们新增了法国的PEA账户，成为首家提供此服务的非法国经纪商。未来还会有更多产品推出。
Broken down by geography, the majority of our accounts are based outside of the United States. To make it easier for prospective clients to come on board, we have translated our account application into more languages, including French, Italian, Arabic, Hebrew, and Hungarian, opening doors for investors who may not be as comfortable with English. Our application is now available in 13 languages, facilitating global outreach for potential customers.
从地域上看，我们的大部分账户位于美国以外。为了让潜在客户更容易开户，我们将账户申请翻译成更多语言，包括法语、意大利语、阿拉伯语、希伯来语和匈牙利语，为不熟悉英语的投资者提供便利。我们的申请表现在支持13种语言，促进了全球客户的拓展。
By client geography, in the fourth quarter, our accounts and client equity once again grew fastest in Asia, followed by Europe, as growing numbers of investors worldwide want access to international and in particular U.S. markets. Of our five client segments, the fastest account growth was again seen with individuals with introducing brokers a close second.
按客户地域划分，第四季度我们的账户和客户权益增长最快的地区再次是亚洲，其次是欧洲，因为全球越来越多的投资者希望进入国际市场，尤其是美国市场。在我们的五个客户细分中，账户增长最快的仍然是个人客户，紧随其后的是引荐经纪商。
On the client equity side, individuals again grew the fastest, followed by financial advisors and i-Brokers. Commission growth was fastest for our proprietary traders, while net interest income growth was led by individuals followed by financial advisors.
在客户权益方面，个人客户再次增长最快，其次是金融顾问和引荐经纪商。佣金收入增长最快的是自营交易员，而净利息收入的增长则由个人客户领跑，其次是金融顾问。
Overall, we experienced another productive quarter. We launched trading on the Saudi Exchange, which follows our launch in Malaysia last quarter. We added IB algorithms for Hong Kong Exchange options. As a note, we began offering cryptocurrencies in Hong Kong also this year back in May.
总体而言，我们又经历了一个富有成效的季度。我们启动了沙特交易所的交易，这是在上一季度推出马来西亚交易之后进行的。我们为香港交易所的期权增加了IB算法。另外值得注意的是，今年5月我们开始在香港提供加密货币交易服务。
We are focused on making it easier for clients to fund accounts. And this quarter began to offer eDDA for Hong Kong dollars and offshore Chinese yuan deposits, Open Banking for euro deposits, and Plaid for euro and British pound account funding. Our clients around the world, particularly younger ones, are used to the convenience of trading crypto 24/7, and will expect the same from other asset classes.
我们致力于让客户更方便地为账户注资。本季度，我们开始为港元和离岸人民币存款提供电子直接扣账授权（eDDA），为欧元存款提供开放银行服务，并通过Plaid支持欧元和英镑的账户注资。全球客户，尤其是年轻客户，已经习惯了全天候24/7加密货币交易的便利，并希望其他资产类别也能提供相同的便利。
We consider meeting these expectations vital. We already offer over 10,000 U.S. stocks and ETFs during overnight hours. And in 2024, we expanded ours to 24’ for corporate and government bonds in U.S. dollar, euro, British pound, and Swiss franc denominations and expanded them for U.S. stock contracts for difference. This quarter, we also expanded our order types and introduced a new one called Overnight Plus Smart to specifically cover overnight trading hours.
我们认为满足这些期望至关重要。目前我们已在隔夜时段提供超过10,000只美国股票和ETF的交易服务。在2024年，我们将交易时段扩展到24小时，包括美元、欧元、英镑和瑞士法郎计价的企业和政府债券，并扩展至美国股票差价合约。本季度，我们还扩展了订单类型，并推出了一种名为“Overnight Plus Smart”的新订单类型，专门覆盖隔夜交易时段。
For other products like Options and Futures, which trade only on exchanges we await only the willingness of the exchanges to extend trading hours. We'll be ready when they are.
对于期权和期货等仅在交易所交易的产品，我们只需等待交易所愿意延长交易时间。一旦他们准备好，我们也将随时准备。
There are at least eight different regulatory projects we are programming for around the world as the many numerous jurisdictions we operate in create, add to, and update the regulations. We are on time or more often while ahead of schedule on all of them.
我们正在为全球范围内至少八个不同的监管项目进行编程，因为我们运营的众多司法管辖区在制定、增加和更新法规方面不断变化。我们在所有项目中都按时完成，甚至经常提前完成。
Our close ties to over 20 very different regulatory regimes in multiple languages and our ability to react to and program or reprogram our systems to comply on a continuous basis is one of our advantages that we take extremely seriously, with employees on the ground and programmers dedicated to these tasks.
我们与超过20个不同的多语言监管体系保持紧密联系，并具备持续响应和编程或重新编程系统以实现合规的能力。这是我们非常重视的优势之一，并且我们有专门负责这些任务的本地员工和程序员。
And finally, a special note on ForecastEx. We created this exchange which is regulated by the CFTC and allows trading on predictions that have measurable third-party verified outcomes. This is an entirely new asset class, one that provides a market driven way to quantify real-world expectations on measures like economic, political, and climate outcomes.
最后，关于ForecastEx的特别说明。我们创建了这个受CFTC监管的交易所，允许对具有可测量的第三方验证结果的预测进行交易。这是一种全新的资产类别，为经济、政治和气候等结果提供了一种由市场驱动的量化方式。
Another significant broker now offers access to our exchange. We were ready with election trading when it became permissible, we believe the greater ambition ForecastEx becoming the most accurate marketplace for predicting significant events will occur over time.
另一家重要经纪商现在也为其客户提供了访问我们的交易所的渠道。当选举交易被允许时，我们已经准备就绪。我们相信，ForecastEx成为预测重大事件的最准确市场的雄心将在未来逐步实现。
保险业务的发展方向？
Our pipeline of new business and new initiatives remains as strong as ever and our products that clearly have resonated with people around the globe. We are not stopping here to rest on our achievements. We have many projects to work on, goals to achieve, and together with the Interactive Brokers team, we look forward to executing on them in 2025. We are eager to share our new products and enhancements as we introduce them.
我们的新业务和新计划的储备仍然一如既往地强大，我们的产品显然已经引起了全球用户的共鸣。我们不会就此止步于现有的成就。我们还有许多项目要完成、目标要实现，并期待与Interactive Brokers团队一起在2025年落实这些计划。我们迫不及待地想要与大家分享我们即将推出的新产品和改进功能。
With that, I will turn the call over to our CFO, Paul Brody. Paul?
接下来，我将把电话交给我们的首席财务官Paul Brody。Paul，请。
Paul Brody
Thanks very much, Nancy. Thank you everybody for joining the call. We are going to start with our revenue items on Page 3 of the release. We're pleased with our financial results this quarter as we again produced record net revenues and pretax income for the quarter and also for the year. Commission revenues rose to a record $477 million of this quarter. For the full year, commissions were $1.7 billion, up 25% from last year.
保罗·布罗迪
非常感谢你，Nancy，也感谢各位参与此次电话会议。我们将从新闻稿第3页的收入项目开始。本季度的财务业绩让我们感到满意，因为我们再次创造了季度和全年净收入及税前收入的纪录。本季度的佣金收入达到创纪录的4.77亿美元。全年佣金收入为17亿美元，同比增长25%。
In 2024, we saw higher trading volumes across the major product categories, as well as 24% higher DARTs per account. Net interest income also reached a quarterly record of $807 million and a yearly record of $3.1 billion despite multiple rate cuts in nearly all the major currencies.
2024年，我们在主要产品类别中看到了更高的交易量，每账户平均日交易量（DARTs）同比增长24%。尽管几乎所有主要货币均出现多次降息，净利息收入仍达到季度纪录8.07亿美元和全年纪录31亿美元。
A continued risk on environment in the quarter led to a significant increase in margin borrowing and strong net customer deposits led to higher segregated funds balances.
本季度持续的风险偏好环境导致保证金借款显著增加，同时强劲的客户净存款推动了隔离资金余额的增长。
These revenues were partially offset by the interest paid to our customers on their cash balances. Other fees and services generated $81 million for the quarter and $280 million for the year, up 47% and 42% respectively.
这些收入被我们向客户现金余额支付的利息部分抵消。其他费用和服务本季度产生了8100万美元收入，全年为2.8亿美元，分别同比增长47%和42%。
This was primarily driven by the continued risk on positioning of customers, which has been reflected in rising risk exposure fees over the course of 2024, and to a lesser extent by both higher FDIC sweep fees and by higher payments for order flow from options exchange mandated programs.
主要驱动力来自客户持续的风险敞口定位，这在2024年期间反映为风险敞口费用的增加。此外，较高的FDIC资金清算费用以及期权交易所强制计划中的更高订单流支付也在一定程度上推动了收入增长。
Other income includes gains and losses on our investments, our currency diversification strategy and principal transactions. The primary factor here was our previously reported October sale of a portion of our interest in Tiger Brokers, which led to a one-time realized gain of $34 million. Together with a $10 million mark-to-market unrealized loss for the quarter, the Tiger investment contributed a net gain of $24 million to other income.
其他收入包括投资收益和损失、货币多元化策略以及主交易的收益。本季度的主要因素是我们此前报告的10月份出售部分老虎证券股份，这笔交易带来了3400万美元的一次性实现收益。加上本季度的1000万美元按市值计价的未实现损失，老虎证券投资为其他收入贡献了2400万美元的净收益。
10月份从3.X跳涨到1x，反应能力不错，也说明不看好老虎证券的发展。
Several of the items in this line are considered non-core and therefore excluded in our adjusted earnings. Without these excluded items, other income was a $59 million gain for the quarter and $132 million for the year.
此类收入中有几项被认为是非核心的，因此在调整后的收益中被排除。如果不包括这些被排除的项目，其他收入本季度为5900万美元，全年为1.32亿美元。
Turning to expenses, execution clearing and distribution costs were $115 million in the quarter and $447 million for the year, up versus last year due to higher trade volumes in stocks and options. Overall, commissions rose faster than execution costs, however, thanks to higher rebates earned from the exchanges that pay for liquidity-enhancing orders.
接下来是费用，本季度执行、清算和分销成本为1.15亿美元，全年为4.47亿美元，较去年有所上升，原因是股票和期权的交易量增加。总体而言，佣金增长速度快于执行成本，这得益于因流动性增强订单从交易所获得的更高返利。
Execution and clearing costs were 19% of commission revenues in the fourth quarter for a gross transactional profit margin of 81%. We calculate this by excluding from execution clearing and distribution $21 million of non-transaction based costs, mainly market data fees, which do not have a direct commission revenue component.
第四季度的执行和清算成本占佣金收入的19%，毛交易利润率为81%。我们通过从执行、清算和分销成本中扣除2100万美元的非交易相关成本（主要是市场数据费用，这些费用与佣金收入没有直接关联）来计算这一数据。
Compensation and benefits expense was $138 million for the quarter, up slightly from the year-ago quarter. Due to the capitalization rather than expensing under GAAP of some software development this quarter, compensation expense is about $5 million lower than usual. Adjustments of this nature may be made periodically.
本季度薪酬和福利费用为1.38亿美元，较去年同期略有上升。由于本季度根据GAAP对部分软件开发费用进行了资本化处理，而非费用化处理，薪酬费用比平时减少了约500万美元。这类调整可能会定期进行。
For the quarter, the ratio of compensation expense to net revenues was 10% and would have been 10.3% had that $5 million of capitalized software been included as comp expense. For the year, this ratio was 11%, down from 12% in 2023.
本季度，薪酬费用占净收入的比率为10%，如果将那500万美元资本化的软件计为薪酬费用，这一比率将为10.3%。全年这一比率为11%，低于2023年的12%。
Our headcount at December 31 was 2,998, up 2% for the year. G&A expenses were $59 million, up from the year-ago quarter. For the full year, G&A was $314 million, up 49%, primarily due to a one-time litigation expense in the third quarter. Excluding this, G&A for the year was $236 million, up 12%, primarily on higher advertising expense.
截至12月31日，我们的员工人数为2,998人，较去年增长2%。一般及行政费用（G&A）本季度为5900万美元，高于去年同期。全年G&A为3.14亿美元，同比增长49%，主要由于第三季度的一次性诉讼费用。若不包括这一费用，全年G&A为2.36亿美元，同比增长12%，主要原因是广告费用增加。
Our pretax margin was a record 75% for the quarter as reported and 76% as adjusted. Income taxes of $71 million reflects the sum of the public company's $34 million and the operating company's $37 million. Public company's effective tax rate was 14%, below its typical range, primarily due to a benefit from the annual revaluation of our deferred tax asset.
本季度税前利润率创下纪录，为报告的75%和调整后的76%。所得税为7100万美元，包括上市公司的3400万美元和运营公司的3700万美元。上市公司的有效税率为14%，低于其通常范围，主要得益于递延税资产的年度重估收益。
Moving to our balance sheet on Page 5 of the release. Our total assets ended the year 17% higher than last year at $150 billion driven by strong growth in margin lending. New account growth also helped propel our customer credit balances by 14% to a new record level. We believe that our strong financial standing and competitive interest rates provide customers with an attractive place to hold their uninvested cash.
转到新闻稿第5页的资产负债表部分。受保证金贷款强劲增长的推动，我们的总资产年末达到1500亿美元，比去年增长17%。新账户的增长也使客户信用余额增长14%，创下新纪录。我们相信，我们强劲的财务状况和具有竞争力的利率为客户提供了一个有吸引力的未投资现金持有场所。
We continue to have no long-term debt and healthy profitability drove our firm equity up 18% to $16.6 billion. In recognition of this growth, we allocated capital to a dividend increase in the second quarter of 2024. We maintain a balance sheet geared towards supporting growth in our existing business and helping us win new business by demonstrating our strength to prospective clients and partners.
我们继续保持无长期债务的状态，健康的盈利能力使我们的公司股本增长18%，达到166亿美元。鉴于这一增长，我们在2024年第二季度增加了股息分配。我们保持了一种面向支持现有业务增长的资产负债表，同时通过展示我们的实力吸引潜在客户和合作伙伴来赢得新业务。
In our operating data, on Pages 6 and 7, we had record customer volume in options with our contract volumes up 32% over the prior year, and also up 32% for the full year, well ahead of industry volumes. Futures contract volumes declined 3% for the quarter but rose 4% for the full year, while stock share volumes rose 65% for the quarter and 22% for the full year.
在我们的运营数据中（第6页和第7页），期权的客户交易量创下新高，合约量较去年同期增长32%，全年也增长32%，远高于行业水平。期货合约量本季度下降3%，但全年增长4%，而股票交易量本季度增长65%，全年增长22%。
Stock share volume generally increased versus last year as clients gravitated to larger, higher-quality names and traded relatively less in pink sheet and some other very low-price stocks. Growth in the notional dollar value of shares traded in the quarter was about even with the growth in our share volumes overall.
股票交易量总体较去年增长，因为客户更多地转向交易更大市值和更高质量的股票，而相对减少了在粉单市场和其他一些超低价股票中的交易。本季度交易股票名义金额的增长与整体交易量的增长基本一致。
On Page 7, you can see that total customer DARTs were 3.1 million trades per day in the quarter, up 61% from the prior year, and the cleared commissionable order per trade of $2.72 was down from last year, primarily due to smaller average order sizes across all product classes and a shift to proportionally more trading in stocks versus options and futures from last year.
在第7页，您可以看到，本季度客户的日均交易量（DARTs）为310万笔，比去年同期增长61%。清算后的可佣订单平均每笔收入为2.72美元，低于去年，这主要是由于所有产品类别的平均订单规模缩小，以及与去年相比，股票交易占比相对增加，而期权和期货交易占比减少。
Page 8 shows our net interest margin numbers. Total GAAP net interest income was $807 million for the quarter, up $77 million or 11% from the prior year, while our net interest margin, net interest income was $830 million or $91 million higher.
第8页显示了我们的净息差数据。本季度，GAAP净利息收入为8.07亿美元，比去年同期增长7700万美元，增幅为11%。净息差调整后的净利息收入为8.3亿美元，比去年增加9100万美元。
In the NIM computation, we include some income that is classified as other fees or other income on our income statement but we believe is more appropriately considered interest. Our net interest income reflects strength in margin loan interest, partially offset by lower segregated cash interest and higher interest expense on customer cash balances.
在净息差计算中，我们包括了一些在损益表中归类为其他费用或其他收入的项目，但我们认为这些更适合作为利息收入。我们的净利息收入反映了保证金贷款利息的强劲增长，这部分被较低的隔离现金利息和较高的客户现金余额利息支出部分抵消。
Many central banks made cuts to their benchmark rates this quarter, including the U.S., Europe, the U.K., Switzerland, Canada, and Hong Kong, reflecting multiple rate cuts in most benchmark rates this year. Our overall segregated cash interest income declined at 2% despite a 10% increase in average balances, while margin loan interest rose by 26% on a 41% increase in average balances.
本季度，许多央行下调了基准利率，包括美国、欧洲、英国、瑞士、加拿大和香港，反映了今年多数基准利率的多次下调。尽管平均余额增长了10%，我们的总体隔离现金利息收入下降了2%，而保证金贷款利息则因平均余额增长41%而增长了26%。
The average duration of our U.S. treasury portfolio remains at under 30 days. With the U.S. dollar yield curve continuing to be inverted during the first part of the quarter, though flattening somewhat in the medium term by quarter end, we continue to maximize what we earn by focusing on higher short-term yields rather than accepting the lower yields and added risk of longer maturities. This strategy allows us to maintain a relatively tight maturity match between our assets and liabilities.
我们的美国国债投资组合的平均期限仍然低于30天。本季度初，美元收益率曲线仍然是倒挂的，尽管到季度末在中期有所趋平。我们继续专注于较高的短期收益率，而不是接受较低的长期收益率及其附加的风险，以最大化收益。这一策略使我们能够在资产和负债之间保持相对紧密的到期匹配。
Securities lending net interest does not appear as strong as in prior years for three main reasons. First, as benchmark interest rates rose from near zero beginning in 2022, more of what we earned from securities lending became classified as interest on segregated cash. We estimate that, if the additional interest earned and paid on cash collateral were included under securities borrowed and loaned, then securities lending net revenue would have been about $182 million this quarter versus $156 million in last year's fourth quarter on the same basis.
证券借贷的净利息似乎不像往年那样强劲，主要有三个原因。第一，自2022年基准利率从接近零的水平上升以来，我们从证券借贷中获得的部分收入被归类为隔离现金的利息。我们估计，如果将现金抵押品上获得并支付的额外利息计入证券借贷收入，那么本季度证券借贷净收入将约为1.82亿美元，而去年第四季度在相同基础上为1.56亿美元。
Second, we've seen strong stock market performance with the S&P up over 20% in each of the past two years, which tends to reflect a smaller proportion of clients looking to put on shorts. Third, there are fewer hard-to-borrow names industry wide. Both because the overall market is rising sharply and due to weakness in some of the typical drivers of securities lending, including IPOs, market volatility, and merger and acquisition activity. Despite this trend, we were successful in raising the total notional value of what we loaned out.
第二，我们看到股市表现强劲，过去两年标普500指数每年上涨超过20%，这往往导致希望做空的客户比例减少。第三，行业内难以借贷的股票数量减少。这既是因为整体市场大幅上涨，也是由于一些典型证券借贷驱动因素的疲软，包括IPO、市场波动性以及并购活动。尽管如此，我们成功提高了借出的名义总价值。
Interest on customer credit balances, the interest we pay to our customers on the cash in their accounts rose on higher balances from new account growth. As we have noted in the past, the high interest rates we pay on customer cash, currently 3.83% on qualified U.S. dollar balances, is a significant attraction to new customers. Fully rate-sensitive customer balances ended the current quarter at $19.1 billion versus $17.8 billion in the year-ago quarter.
客户信用余额的利息，即我们向客户账户中的现金支付的利息，随着新账户增长推动的较高余额而上升。正如我们过去提到的，我们在客户现金上支付的高利率（目前符合条件的美元余额为3.83%）对新客户具有重要吸引力。本季度末完全利率敏感的客户余额为191亿美元，而去年同期为178亿美元。
相当于少了8亿美元的税前利润。
Now for our estimates of the impact of changes in rates. Given market expectations of further rate cuts in the future, we estimate the effect of a 25 basis point decrease in the benchmark Fed funds rate to be a $64 million reduction in annual net interest income.
现在谈谈我们对利率变化影响的估计。鉴于市场预期未来会进一步降息，我们估计基准联邦基金利率每下降25个基点，将导致年度净利息收入减少6400万美元。
Note that our starting point for this estimate is December 31, with the Fed funds effective rate at 4.33% and balances as of that date. Any growth in our balance sheet and interest-earning assets would reduce this impact. About 25% of our customer cash balances is not in US dollars. So, estimates of the U.S. rate change exclude those currencies.
请注意，我们的估算起点为12月31日，当时联邦基金有效利率为4.33%，基于该日期的余额。任何资产负债表和生息资产的增长都会减少这种影响。大约25%的客户现金余额不是以美元计价，因此对美国利率变化的估算不包括这些货币。
We estimate the effect of decreases in all the relevant non-USD benchmark rates would reduce annual net interest income by about $22 billion for each 25 basis point decrease in those benchmarks. At a high level, a full 1% decrease in all benchmark rates would decrease our annual net interest income by about $339 billion. This takes into account rate-sensitive customer balances and also firm equity.
我们估计，所有相关非美元基准利率的每次25个基点的降幅将导致年度净利息收入减少约2200万美元。总体来看，所有基准利率全面下降1%将使我们的年度净利息收入减少约3.39亿美元。这一估算考虑了利率敏感的客户余额以及公司股本。
In conclusion, we posted another financially strong quarter in net revenues and pretax margin leading to a record year. This reflects our continued ability to grow our customer base and deliver on our core value proposition to customers, while simultaneously scaling the business.
总之，我们在净收入和税前利润率方面又创造了一个财务强劲的季度，成就了创纪录的一年。这反映了我们持续增长客户群的能力，以及在扩大业务规模的同时向客户兑现核心价值主张的能力。
Our business strategy continues to be effective. Automating as much of the brokerage business as possible, continuously improving and expanding on what we offer, while minimizing what we charge.
我们的业务战略仍然行之有效。尽可能实现经纪业务的自动化，持续改进和扩展我们的服务，同时尽量减少收费。
And with that, we will open up the line for questions.
接下来，我们将开放提问环节。
Question-and-Answer Session
问答环节
Operator
[Operator Instructions] Our first question for the day will be coming from Craig Siegenthaler of Bank of America.
操作员
[操作说明] 我们今天的第一个问题来自美国银行的Craig Siegenthaler。
Craig Siegenthaler
Hope you're all doing well. First one, I have a modeling one on expenses. So execution clearing and distribution fees. As you pointed out in your prepared remarks, they did grow a lot slower than DARTs and commissions.
In the press release, you kind of called out, would look like a few negatives. In the prepared remarks, you called out rebates. But how should we think about this line item heading into 1Q and then any high-level thoughts on modeling it, because a lot of us model it relative to commissions or DARTs.
克雷格·西根萨勒
希望大家一切都好。第一个问题是关于费用建模的。执行、清算和分销费用，正如你们在准备好的发言中指出的，增长速度远低于DARTs和佣金。
在新闻稿中，你们提到了一些看似负面的因素。在发言中，你们提到返利。那么我们应该如何看待这一项目在第一季度的变化？以及在建模时有什么高层次的想法？因为我们很多人都是基于佣金或DARTs来建模的。
Paul Brody
Yes, so I'll take that one. Generally, yes, it's driven by volume. Obviously, those are all the variable costs. They're per share or per contract. But within that, there are things like order routing changes so that our systems that provide smart routing of say stock orders can have many different venues to route in order to, to get the best price for the customer. And it can do that while maximizing the rebates, which are provided by some of the venues on liquidity-enhancing orders.
保罗·布罗迪
好的，我来回答这个问题。一般来说，这确实由交易量驱动。显然，这些都是可变成本，按每股或每份合约计算。但在这其中，有一些像订单路由的变化，例如我们的系统在智能路由股票订单时，可以利用许多不同的平台以为客户获得最佳价格。同时，它还能在某些平台提供的流动性增强订单返利中实现最大化。
And then we generally pass those rebates through to the customers, and that would show up in reducing commission revenue. So they're somewhat paired. But therefore, if you only look at the expense side, it doesn't tell you the whole picture.
然后，我们通常会将这些返利传递给客户，这会体现在降低佣金收入上。所以两者是有一定关联的。因此，如果仅查看费用方面的数据，是无法完整了解全貌的。
Craig Siegenthaler
Got it. And then just for my follow-up, we keep watching equity build. It's almost at $17 billion now. I just wanted your thoughts on how fast we should expect this capital balance into new building? And is this really helping your hedge fund prime marketing efforts given the size? And any updated thoughts on share repurchases in the future?
克雷格·西根萨勒
明白了。接着，我有一个后续问题。我们一直在关注股本增长，目前已经接近170亿美元了。我想听听你们对这些资本余额用于新建设的预期速度的看法？此外，考虑到规模，这是否真的帮助了你们对对冲基金的主要营销工作？以及未来是否有关于股票回购的最新计划？
Milan Galik
Well, there is no plan to do any type of share repurchasing. We will, in the future, consider increasing the dividend, but that, of course, assumes that the stock price will be about $200,000, it will remain there.
米兰·加利克
目前没有进行任何类型股票回购的计划。未来我们可能会考虑增加股息，但这当然假设股价会在大约200美元左右并维持在这个水平。
As far as the strong capital, we like it that way for a couple of different reasons. For hedge fund clients, for institutional clients to compete with large banks that have been in business for more than 100 years. They obviously have an established reputation. And by many managers, they're considered to be a safe choice. They will never be blamed if something were to go wrong with a barge bracket competing bank.
至于强劲的资本，我们喜欢保持这种状态，原因有几个。对于对冲基金客户和机构客户来说，与经营超过100年的大型银行竞争显然需要建立声誉。对于许多经理人而言，大型银行被视为安全的选择。如果某些投资出问题，他们不会因此受到指责。
We have to work hard to earn our reputation. We have been consistently growing the company and our capital base. It’s visible. Our balance sheet is strong. That is one way where we signal to the marketplace that we are a serious player and they should consider us for custodying their assets.
我们需要努力建立声誉。我们一直在持续增长公司和资本基础。这是显而易见的。我们的资产负债表很强劲，这是一种向市场传递信号的方式，表明我们是一个严肃的参与者，值得被考虑作为资产托管方。
The other way, the very high capital base is benefiting us is that unlike in the United States, where we can fund the margin loans using other customers' uninvested cash. All the banks are able to do so outside of the United States. So, we fund a large portion of those loans by our own capital. Those are the two reasons why we like the number to be ever growing.
其他方面，非常高的资本基础有益于我们的地方在于，与美国不同，在美国，我们可以利用其他客户未投资的现金为保证金贷款提供资金。所有银行在美国以外都可以这样做。因此，我们使用我们自己的资本为这些贷款的大部分提供资金。这是我们喜欢这个数字不断增长的两个原因。
Operator
And our next question will be coming from the line of Benjamin Budish of Barclays.
操作员
接下来，我们的问题来自巴克莱的Benjamin Budish。
Benjamin Budish
Hi, good evening, and thanks for taking the question. Maybe first, just, I was curious to get your thoughts on what account growth could look like in 2025. I know you tend not to kind of give guidance on a per-year basis. But it's just kind of remarkable the momentum we've seen over the course of the year and kind of accelerating as you're growing larger.
So, just curious what do you think of the key factors in 25'? Can you maybe talk about the word-of-mouth momentum you're seeing? And can you maybe unpack a little bit of kind of where you're leaning? And I think you in the prepared remarks and in the press, where you called out a bit of a pickup in advertising spend. So just curious, what your thoughts there are, on what account growth could look like this year.
本杰明·布迪什
你好，晚上好，谢谢回答我的问题。首先，我想了解一下你们对2025年账户增长的看法。我知道你们通常不按年度提供具体指导，但今年的增长势头非常显著，甚至在规模扩大后仍在加速。
所以，我好奇你们对2025年的关键因素怎么看？能否谈谈你们在口碑传播方面的观察？另外，能否详细说明一下你们在哪些领域发力？我注意到在发言和新闻稿中提到广告支出的增加。对此，你们怎么看2025年的账户增长？
Milan Galik
Well, our marketing spend will be slowly increasing. Obviously, it's necessary to attract the individual accounts. So, that's why it's going to go up. We expect a steady growth in the number of accounts.
米兰·加利克
我们的市场营销支出将会缓慢增加。这显然是吸引个人账户的必要条件，所以支出会上升。我们预计账户数量将保持稳定增长。
As you could see this past quarter, we really enjoyed a high number. There is a lot of enthusiasm in the market, partially related to the ever-increasing prices in the market, stock prices in the market, partially related to the change of the administration that is largely considered to be pro-business, and the U.S. markets as a result are expected to continue to do well.
正如你在上个季度看到的，我们的账户增长数量非常高。市场中充满了热情，部分原因是市场价格，尤其是股票价格不断上涨，部分原因是政府更替，新政府被普遍认为是支持商业发展的，因此预计美国市场将继续表现良好。
So, there are a lot of accounts, new accounts being opened. Some investors who were sitting on the sidelines decided to open an account and start investing. So, we are bullish on the continued growth of the accounts.
因此，有许多账户正在开立。一些以前观望的投资者决定开设账户并开始投资。因此，我们对账户数量的持续增长持乐观态度。
Benjamin Budish
Maybe one quick modeling follow-up for Paul. I think for the employee comp and benefits line, you called out a capitalized expense. Just curious in Q1 and kind of going into the year, should we think about the level in kind of the first couple of quarters of 2024 as the starting point, or does it kind of reset lower? Just any guidance you could give there would be helpful.
本杰明·布迪什
或许我有一个快速的建模相关问题给Paul。关于员工薪酬和福利支出，你提到了一项资本化的费用。我想知道在2024年第一季度及全年初期，我们是否应该将前几个季度的水平作为起点，还是会有所下降？任何相关指导都会有所帮助。
Paul Brody
Right, well, it does go along with our hiring, which was only 2% higher than prior year. I think the best way to look at it is on the full year because the capitalization is measured only periodically and can be added in a given quarter. Our average for all of 2024 was $143 million a quarter, and that's probably your best starting point for going forward.
保罗·布罗迪
好的，这与我们的招聘情况有关，而招聘增长率仅比去年高出2%。我认为最好的方法是从全年来看，因为资本化的费用是按周期衡量的，可能会在某个季度增加。2024年的季度平均薪酬费用为1.43亿美元，这可能是未来的最佳起点。
Operator
And our next question will be coming from the line of James Yaro of Goldman Sachs.
操作员
接下来，我们的问题来自高盛的James Yaro。
James Yaro
Thanks, Milan and Paul for taking the questions here. Maybe just starting on aspirations in the high touch part of the prime brokerage offering, which you've obviously expanded in 2024. If there's deregulation of the bulge bracket prime brokers, which the market clearly expects, could this present a more meaningful threat to growth of the business? And then just, what are you is on the product roadmap for this business in 2025?
詹姆斯·亚罗
谢谢Milan和Paul回答问题。我想先谈谈关于高端定制服务部分的主经纪业务，你们显然在2024年进行了扩展。如果对大投行主经纪商的监管放松——这是市场显然预期的——这是否会对业务增长构成更大的威胁？另外，这项业务在2025年的产品路线图是什么？
Milan Galik
I would not expect the regulation to really have an impact. As I explained a bit earlier, the -- what we're dealing with is competing with very large established banks, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley. I cannot see how a small newcomer would really be able to make a significant dent in our business. So the regulation, I do not think would impact our business that way. As far as the product, did you mean within this white glove offering for the hedge funds?
米兰·加利克
我不认为监管会真正产生影响。正如我刚才提到的，我们正在与高盛、摩根士丹利等大型老牌银行竞争。我无法想象一个小型新进入者能够对我们的业务产生重大冲击。因此，我不认为监管会以那种方式影响我们的业务。至于产品，你是指对对冲基金的高端定制服务吗？
James Yaro
That's right.
詹姆斯·亚罗
是的。
Milan Galik
Well, I can tell you that one of the things that we have done is we have revamped the way we do the capital introduction events in the past quarter. We do those events approximately 13 months. We changed the name of the event. We changed the way it's organized, we advertise in that. And the result of that was that the last event we had doubled the number of participants, instead of 120, we had 240 accredited investors participating in the capital introduction event.
米兰·加利克
我可以告诉你，我们做的一件事情是，在过去一个季度里，我们重新设计了资本引介活动的方式。我们大约每13个月举办一次这样的活动。我们更改了活动的名称和组织方式，并进行了宣传。结果是，我们最近一次活动的参与者人数翻了一倍，从120人增加到240名合格投资者。
Otherwise, we are pleased with how the white glove offering is going. We have hedge funds onboarded with the average assets of $160 million. The goal here is to provide them with better service. They all appreciate direct access to the subject matter experts. They like talking to us. We handle approximately 50 different issues on a particular week.
此外，我们对高端定制服务的进展感到满意。目前已有对冲基金加入，平均资产为1.6亿美元。我们的目标是为他们提供更好的服务。他们非常认可可以直接接触专业人士的机会，他们喜欢与我们交流。我们每周大约处理50个不同的问题。
And as we talk to them more, we make adjustments. For example, just recently, we have started offering algorithms. VWAP and similar algorithms for stocks in APAC region, and that was directly due to the fact that the hedge funds that are now more openly talking to us, we're requesting that feature. We're pleased with the way it's going so far.
随着我们与他们的交流增多，我们也在做出调整。例如，最近我们开始为亚太地区股票提供VWAP和类似算法的服务，这直接是由于对冲基金与我们的交流更加开放，他们提出了这一需求。到目前为止，我们对这一进展感到满意。
James Yaro
Excellent. That's very clear. Maybe just turning to the margins. Your adjusted margin did rise to best-in-class 75.6%. Can it continue to rise off of these levels? Is there an efficient horizon that you see for the margin?
詹姆斯·亚罗
非常好，这很清楚。接着谈谈利润率。你们调整后的利润率达到行业领先的75.6%。它能否继续从这一水平上升？对于利润率，你们是否看到一个有效的上限？
Milan Galik
Well, I would not expect that number to go up. That is not the number that we're optimizing for. What we're trying to do is delivering value to our clients. We obviously have to pay attention to not just automating everything we can so that we can offer our services at the lowest prices. But we also have to make sure that when our clients need help, we have sufficient personnel to answer their questions to help them on the customer service line.
米兰·加利克
我不认为这个数字会继续上升。这并不是我们正在优化的目标。我们要做的是为客户提供价值。显然，我们不仅要专注于尽可能实现自动化以最低的价格提供服务，还需要确保在客户需要帮助时，有足够的人员来回答他们的问题并在客户服务线上帮助他们。
这个回答是清晰的，做好产品是关键，收益是自然的结果。
And they are obviously the ongoing costs of the compliance, which are ever increasing, given the very large number of jurisdictions where we operate. So I would not expect that number to go higher.
此外，合规的持续成本显然也在不断增加，尤其是考虑到我们在众多司法管辖区运营的情况。所以我不认为这一数字会进一步上升。
Operator
And our next question will be coming from the line of Brennan Hawken of UBS.
操作员
接下来，我们的问题来自瑞银的Brennan Hawken。
Brennan Hawken
Margin balances have really shown very, very solid growth despite the volatility in the market. So how should we be thinking about that on a go-forward basis? What trends have you seen quarter-to-date? And maybe taking a step back, when you think about how your customer base has changed in recent years. How should we be thinking about margin penetration for you versus history?
布伦南·霍肯
尽管市场波动，保证金余额仍表现出非常强劲的增长。那么我们应该如何看待未来的发展？截至目前，你们观察到哪些趋势？另外，从更长远的角度看，当你们考虑客户群近年来的变化时，我们应该如何看待你们的保证金渗透率与历史相比的变化？
Milan Galik
Margin balances have been increasing. That's due to the risk-on appetite of our clients. Their positions have been more assertive, not only by trading stocks on margin, but by putting on aggressive positions in the derivatives.
米兰·加利克
保证金余额一直在增长，这归因于客户的风险偏好。他们的头寸更为积极，不仅通过保证金交易股票，还通过衍生品建立了更具进取性的头寸。
We feel -- remember back in August of last year that there was a rather sharp sell-off and we quickly saw our clients reducing their risk positions, but as the stock market turned and things calmed down, they quickly came back home.
我们感到，当去年8月出现较大幅度的抛售时，我们迅速看到客户减少了风险头寸，但随着股市回暖，市场平静下来后，他们又迅速回归。
So, I would expect some amount of correlation with what the stock market is doing. But for now, we seem to be in the risk-on mode because of the change over the administration, for example. So, margin balance on all things being equal, I think will be maintained at this level or slightly go higher.
因此，我预计保证金余额与股市表现会有一定的相关性。但目前，由于政府更替等因素，我们似乎处于风险偏好模式。因此，假设其他条件不变，我认为保证金余额将维持在这一水平或略有上升。
Brennan Hawken
And when you think about some of the different cohorts of your customer base, advisors are a larger portion. When we think about penetration versus prior cycles, and we compare margin balances maybe to client equity, what impact do you expect that could have on those metrics?
布伦南·霍肯
当您考虑客户群中的不同群体时，顾问占的比例较大。如果我们比较当前周期与之前周期的渗透率，比如保证金余额与客户权益的对比，您预计这些指标会受到怎样的影响？
Milan Galik
Well, financial advisors, some of them obviously trade on margin, majority of them do not. We have the prop traders. I would expect them to continue to trade aggressively. We have all sorts of individual accounts, small ones, large ones, more sophisticated ones, less sophisticated ones. So, obviously the more sophisticated ones, I would expect to continue to deploy leverage. And then you have the hedge funds, which again, I would expect to continue addressing.
米兰·加利克
金融顾问中，有些显然会使用保证金交易，但大多数不会。我们还有自营交易者，我预计他们会继续进行积极交易。我们有各种类型的个人账户，小账户、大账户、成熟的账户、不太成熟的账户。显然，我预计更成熟的账户会继续使用杠杆。此外，还有对冲基金，我同样预计它们会继续采取积极策略。
Operator
And our next question will be coming from the line of Dan Fannon of Jefferies.
操作员
接下来，我们的问题来自Jefferies的Dan Fannon。
Dan Fannon
Thanks. Good evening. So, just following up on areas of investment and product development as you think about 2025. You've talked a bit about the prime brokerage as well as some of the things that were in that you've come to market with here in the fourth quarter. So, curious to just about the areas of investment and really on that product development side for the individual that you see or focused on into 2025.
丹·范农
谢谢，晚上好。我想跟进一下关于2025年的投资和产品开发领域。您之前提到了一些关于主经纪业务以及在第四季度推出的产品。我好奇，在投资领域和个人客户的产品开发方面，您在2025年关注的重点是什么？
Milan Galik
Well, all the time we look at all the segments that we – all the client segments that we service. We carefully listen to the feedback we're receiving from them. What is it that they're looking for, and we continuously pass that feedback and ask ourselves the question: How is it that we can improve our offering? So, that is what really a bulk of the work goes into when we are discussing the client-facing investments.
米兰·加利克
我们一直在审视我们服务的所有客户群体。我们会认真听取他们的反馈，了解他们的需求，并不断将这些反馈传递给内部，同时问自己：我们如何改进服务？当我们讨论面向客户的投资时，大部分工作都集中在这方面。
And then there is obviously a lot of work that we're doing on the back end. The number of accounts is increasing fast. The trading activity is going up fast. We have to make sure that our systems can handle the load, especially during spikes, which can occur very often. You can have a normal day and all of a sudden, you get a really busy day, when all the computers are running hot, so to speak.
此外，显然我们在后台也有很多工作在进行。账户数量快速增加，交易活动快速上升。我们必须确保系统能够应对负载，尤其是在交易激增期间，这种情况经常发生。你可能会经历一个普通的日子，然后突然遇到一个非常忙碌的日子，所有的计算机都处于高负荷运行状态，可以这么说。
We have to pay attention to making sure that our systems are reliable, that we have no outages, and that we have very significant backups. And then we have to work on systems that our operators – this is more for the client service and our compliance departments. A significant number of employees work in those departments. And so, to avoid having to hire as many of them as less automated competitors, we have to give them the right tools. So that is sort of where the attention is being paid to all these different reactions.
我们必须确保系统的可靠性，防止宕机，并拥有足够的备份。此外，我们还需要为运营人员（主要是客户服务和合规部门的员工）开发系统。这些部门有大量员工，我们需要通过提供合适的工具来减少对人员的依赖，而不是像自动化程度较低的竞争对手那样雇佣大量员工。这些就是我们关注的重点领域。
Dan Fannon
And then as a follow-up on, you've talked at previous periods about M&A and kind of inorganic growth. Can you give us an update on your thoughts today? And maybe kind of the current market opportunity for inorganic potential combinations?
丹·范农
然后，关于之前提到的并购（M&A）和非有机增长的问题，您能否更新一下当前的想法？以及当前市场中非有机潜在组合的机会？
Milan Galik
We remain open to M&A so far. As you know, we have not been really successful. There was one significant competitor we were looking at in the last quarter of last year. We did not succeed in completing a transaction, but we remain open to it, we will consider any opportunity that comes our way.
米兰·加利克
我们目前仍然对并购持开放态度。如您所知，我们尚未真正取得成功。去年第四季度，我们曾关注过一个重要竞争对手，但未能成功完成交易。不过，我们依然持开放态度，会考虑任何出现的机会。
Operator
And our next question will be coming from the line of Patrick Moley of Piper Sandler.
操作员
接下来，我们的问题来自Piper Sandler的Patrick Moley。
Patrick Moley
So I had one on the just prediction markets and the ForecastEx platform. It seemed like the election brought a lot of people into the prediction market. So I just was hoping you could give us an update on kind of the traction that you're seeing there, your outlook for next year and whether there's any kind of milestones or things we should be looking out for on the product roadmap there?
帕特里克·莫利
我有一个关于预测市场和ForecastEx平台的问题。选举似乎吸引了很多人进入预测市场。所以我想听听您能否提供一些关于这一领域的进展更新、对明年的展望，以及产品路线图中我们应该关注的里程碑或其他重要事项？
Thomas Peterffy
Well, the prediction markets are going slowly. We are being very careful not to step on their own foot. And we believe that this is going to be a huge market, but we want to do it slowly and carefully and build out our personnel and our systems so that we can do it in a really, really big way. And that's what we are. That's what I'm devoting my time to.
托马斯·彼得菲
预测市场发展缓慢。我们非常小心，以免出现问题。我们相信这将是一个巨大的市场，但我们希望慢慢来，谨慎行事，同时扩展我们的团队和系统，以便我们能够以非常大的规模来开展工作。这正是我们正在做的事情，也是我目前投入时间的重点。
Patrick Moley
All right. Great. And then maybe just a follow-up on Crypto. There's a lot of excitement around crypto here. It seems like the incoming administration, the change in leadership in the SEC is going to foster a new kind of era more favorable to the crypto trading firms, I guess, if you will. Your offering right now is relatively robust compared to some of the others. How are you feeling right now about that offering? And if there was to be more comprehensive legislation, what areas, if at all, would you look to expand the offering?
帕特里克·莫利
好的，太好了。我想跟进一个关于加密货币的问题。现在加密货币领域非常令人兴奋。看起来即将上任的政府以及美国证券交易委员会（SEC）领导层的更替，似乎会推动一个对加密货币交易公司更加有利的新时期。目前你们的产品相比其他公司已经相当强大。你们对这一产品的现状有何看法？如果有更全面的立法，你们是否会考虑扩展某些领域的产品？
Milan Galik
Well, what our immediate plan is to offer a cryptocurrency trading to the customers in the European Union, but that's obviously not affected by the changes in the administration. I'm cautiously optimistic about what's going to happen next. I think the regulations in this area need to be firmed up. And the task force was announced today. And I think they will work hard to make sure that the rules are clear, and that will obviously improve the area for the investors as well as the companies that service them like ours.
米兰·加利克
我们目前的直接计划是向欧盟客户提供加密货币交易服务，但这显然不受美国政府更替的影响。我对接下来的发展持谨慎乐观态度。我认为这个领域的法规需要得到巩固。今天已经宣布成立了一个工作组，我认为他们会努力确保规则明确。这显然会改善投资者的环境，同时也改善像我们这样的服务公司所处的环境。
There are obviously things that are somewhat concerning. There are these meme coins, for example. There have been two of them issued just last few days, I'm not really pleased with that development. I think it looks under strange. It may give the cryptocurrency industry somewhat of a bad name, if in fact that continues to happen. But overall, I'm optimistic about the regulation that is going to be clarified and firmed up.
显然，有些事情让人担忧。例如，这些“迷因币”（meme coins）。就在过去几天内，又发行了两个，我对这一发展并不满意。我认为这显得有些奇怪。如果这种情况持续下去，可能会损害加密货币行业的声誉。但总的来说，我对即将明确和巩固的法规持乐观态度。
Operator
And our next question will be coming from the line of Chris Allen from Citi.
操作员
接下来，我们的问题来自花旗的Chris Allen。
Chris Allen
Maybe I can just follow up on the crypto question. Any color you could provide in terms of your customer base, how like any percent -- rough percentage that are actually trading crypto on your platform currently? And if there was a regulation, where would be the opportunity set to expand in the U.S., maybe from a product offering perspective?
克里斯·艾伦
或许我可以就加密货币的问题再跟进一下。能否提供一些关于你们客户群的信息，比如目前在你们平台上实际交易加密货币的客户大致占比是多少？如果有相关法规出台，从产品供应的角度来看，美国市场有哪些扩展机会？
Milan Galik
At the moment, they are for clients that are really heavily traded on our platform, if I can call it heavily. It's the Bitcoin, Ethereum and Stablecoins and Bitcoin Cash. I would expect us to increase the number of tokens we would make available on the platform, which would make our platform more attractive to the run-of-the-mill cryptocurrency traders.
米兰·加利克
目前，在我们平台上活跃交易的客户主要交易比特币、以太坊、稳定币和比特币现金。如果可以这么说的话，我预计我们将增加平台上可供交易的代币数量，这将使我们的平台对普通加密货币交易者更具吸引力。
They have interest in trading, for example, Solana, which we are currently not able to offer because there wasn't sufficient regulatory clarity as to whether that would be considered a security or not. So those kinds of questions will be -- will get clarified.
例如，他们对交易Solana很感兴趣，但由于目前缺乏足够的监管明确性，尚不清楚这是否会被视为证券，我们目前无法提供此交易。这类问题将会得到澄清。
So as a result, I expect us to be able to list more tokens in the future and attract cryptocurrency traders who really focus on trading cryptocurrencies. Another thing that I would expect is for us to be able to increase the percentage of assets we allow a single account to invest in the crypto assets. At the moment, that number is set to 1%. It's a very conservative figure. But as the crypto assets become more widely accepted, we would raise that number higher.
因此，我预计未来我们将能够上线更多的代币，吸引真正专注于加密货币交易的交易者。另一件我预期会发生的事情是，我们可能会提高允许单个账户投资于加密资产的比例。目前，这一比例设置为1%，这是一个非常保守的数字。但随着加密资产被更广泛地接受，我们会将这一比例提高。
这是负责任的态度。
Chris Allen
And then just as a follow-up, on sec lending, recognized the headwinds from lower levels of IPO and M&A activity. Just kind of curious, how is your capacity to lend -- for securities lending compare now versus the end of '23 and in '22? Has it expanded with the account growth? I'm just trying to think about what the potential could look like in a better environment, which many expect as we move through 2025 and into '26?
克里斯·艾伦
接着问一个关于证券借贷的问题。我们注意到IPO和并购活动减少带来的阻力。我想知道你们目前的证券借贷能力与2023年底和2022年相比有何变化？随着账户增长，这种能力是否有所扩大？我只是试图了解在一个更好的环境中（许多人预计会在2025年和2026年到来），潜力会是什么样子？
Paul Brody
Yes. It absolutely expands with our account growth and simply more participation in the markets by our clients who tend to go long and hold the stocks that are attractive for lending out, primarily to other broker-dealers and banks. And yes, we would expect that to continue to rise because our customer base is simply going to hold more of those positions.
保罗·布罗迪
是的。这绝对会随着账户的增长而扩大，同时也因为我们的客户在市场中的参与度增加，他们倾向于做多并持有适合借出的股票，主要是借给其他经纪商和银行。是的，我们预计这一趋势将继续上升，因为我们的客户基础显然会持有更多此类头寸。
Operator
And our next question will be coming from the line of Kyle Voigt of KBW.
操作员
接下来，我们的问题来自KBW的Kyle Voigt。
Kyle Voigt
So I know you gave some commentary on pretax margin and investments for 2025. But maybe if I could just ask a question specifically on fixed expense growth. If we exclude some of the one-time items that you had in the third quarter and even the $5 million of 4Q comp that you noted earlier in the call, we're kind of calculating fixed expense growth of roughly 12% for the full year 2024.
So I think that's generally in line with that low double-digit expense growth rate you posted historically. I guess relative to that bogey, is there any way to frame whether core fixed expense growth should accelerate or decelerate versus that low double-digit level as we look out into 2025?
凯尔·沃伊特
我知道你们对2025年的税前利润率和投资作了一些评论。但我想具体问一下固定费用的增长。如果排除第三季度的一些一次性项目，甚至包括你们在电话中提到的第四季度的500万美元薪酬，我们计算出2024年全年的固定费用增长率约为12%。
我认为这大致符合你们历史上公布的低两位数费用增长率。那么，相对于这个基准，当我们展望2025年时，核心固定费用的增长率是否会加速或放缓？
Milan Galik
I would not expect it to accelerate. I think if you are likely to see in next year, what you have just seen. That obviously assumes that the inflation doesn't kick in and we will have to pay more for the human resources than before, we will obviously remain competitive.
米兰·加利克
我不认为会加速。我认为你在明年看到的可能会与今年类似。当然，这是假设通胀不会显著增加，我们不需要为人力资源支付比以前更多的费用。我们显然会保持竞争力。
It is our job to attract the best talent that we can. We pay attention to the market rates, and we either pay market rates or above. We attract the best talent, and we will continue to do that. Given our focus on automation, we do not have a choice just to do that.
吸引最优秀的人才是我们的责任。我们关注市场薪资水平，支付的薪酬要么与市场水平持平，要么高于市场水平。我们吸引最优秀的人才，并将继续这样做。鉴于我们专注于自动化，这是我们必须采取的措施。
Paul Brody
I might just add to that, that advertising is a component of that. And so to the extent that we expect to do more, that will be somewhat of a driver.
保罗·布罗迪
我想补充一点，广告也是其中的一部分。如果我们计划做更多的广告投入，这将成为某种推动因素。
Kyle Voigt
And for my follow-up, and I know this was asked last quarter as well, but the stock continues to perform very strongly even since then. But for Thomas, just curious as to whether you would consider any stock sales to help increase the public float. And if so, would that still only be in blocks and not in open market transactions?
凯尔·沃伊特
作为我的跟进问题，我知道上个季度也问过这个问题，但自那以来，股票表现依然非常强劲。对于托马斯，我想问一下，您是否会考虑出售部分股票以增加公众流通股？如果是的话，是否仍然只会通过大宗交易，而非公开市场交易？
Milan Galik
I do not see. Thomas --
米兰·加利克
我不认为。托马斯——
Thomas Peterffy
It would be in blocks, and I will do that when the price reaches what I believe is the right price.
托马斯·彼得菲
这将是通过大宗交易进行的，我会在股价达到我认为合适的水平时进行。
Operator
Thank you. And that does conclude today's question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the call back over to Nancy for closing remarks. Please go ahead.
操作员
谢谢。这就结束了今天的问答环节。我将把电话交给Nancy进行总结发言。请继续。
Nancy Stuebe
Thank you, everyone, for participating today. As a reminder, this call will be available for replay on our website, and we will also be posting a clean version of our transcript on the site tomorrow. Thank you again, and we will talk to you next quarter end.
南希·斯图比
谢谢大家今天的参与。提醒一下，这次电话会议的回放将可以在我们的网站上收听，我们也将在明天发布整理过的会议记录版本。再次感谢大家，我们将在下季度末再与大家沟通。
Operator
Thank you for joining today's conference call. You may now disconnect. Have a good evening.
操作员
感谢您参加今天的电话会议。现在可以挂断电话了。祝您晚上愉快。
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Interactive Brokers Group, Inc. (NASDAQ:IBKR) Q3 2024 Results Conference Call October 15, 2024 4:30 PM ET 盈透证券集团公司（纳斯达克:IBKR）2024 年第三季度业绩电话会议 2024 年 10 月 15 日 美国东部时间下午 4:30 Company Participants 公司参与者 Nancy Stuebe - Director of Investor Relations ...