W. R. Berkley Corporation (NYSE:WRB) Q2 2025 Earnings Conference Call July 21, 2025 5:00 PM ET
Company Participants
Richard Mark Baio - Executive VP & CFO
William Robert Berkley - Executive Chairman of the Board
William Robert Berkley - President, CEO & Director
Conference Call Participants
Andrew E. Andersen - Jefferies LLC, Research Division
Andrew Scott Kligerman - TD Cowen, Research Division
Brian Robert Meredith - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division
David Kenneth Motemaden - Evercore ISI Institutional Equities, Research Division
Elyse Beth Greenspan - Wells Fargo Securities, LLC, Research Division
James E. Inglis - Philo Smith & Co.
Joshua David Shanker - BofA Securities, Research Division
Mark Douglas Hughes - Truist Securities, Inc., Research Division
Meyer Shields - Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division
Michael David Zaremski - BMO Capital Markets Equity Research
Robert Cox - Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., Research Division
Taylor Alexander Scott - Barclays Bank PLC, Research Division
Wesley Collin Carmichael - Autonomous Research US LP
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to W. R. Berkley Corporation's Second Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded.
各位女士们、先生们，大家好，欢迎参加W. R. Berkley公司2025年第二季度财报电话会议。今天的会议正在录音中。
The speaker's remarks may contain forward-looking statements. Some of the forward-looking statements can be identified by the use of forward-looking words including, without limitation, believes, expects or estimates. We caution you that such forward-looking statements should not be regarded as a representation by us that the future plans, estimates or expectations contemplated by us will, in fact, be achieved.
发言者的言论可能包含前瞻性声明。一些前瞻性声明可以通过所使用的词语来识别，例如“相信”、“预期”或“估计”等。我们提醒您，这类前瞻性声明不应被视为我们对于未来计划、估计或预期将一定实现的承诺。
Please refer to our annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2024, and our other filings made with the SEC for a description of the business environment in which we operate and the important factors that may materially affect our results. W. R. Berkley Corporation is not under any obligation and expressly disclaims any such obligation to update or alter its forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.
有关我们所处的商业环境以及可能对我们业绩产生重大影响的重要因素，请参阅我们截至2024年12月31日的年度报告Form 10-K，以及我们向美国证券交易委员会提交的其他文件。W. R. Berkley公司没有义务，并明确否认对其前瞻性声明进行更新或更改的任何义务，无论是由于新信息、未来事件还是其他原因所致。
I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Rob Berkley. Please go ahead, sir.
现在，我将电话转交给Rob Berkley先生。请您继续发言。
William Robert Berkley
Abby, thank you very much, and thank you to all participants for your time today and your interest in the company.
谢谢你，Abby。也感谢各位今天的参与和对本公司的关注。
In addition to myself, you also have our Executive Chairman, Bill Berkley, on the call; as well as Rich Baio, our Chief Financial Officer. We're going to follow our typical agenda where momentarily, I'll be handing it over to Rich. He'll run us through some highlights from the quarter. He'll then pass it back to me. I'll offer a few more sound bites and then we look forward to taking people's questions and for that matter, taking the conversation and any direction participants wish to take it.
除了我本人外，我们还有公司执行董事长Bill Berkley先生以及首席财务官Rich Baio先生一同出席本次电话会议。我们将按惯例进行，稍后我会把话筒交给Rich，他会带大家回顾本季度的重点内容。之后我会再发言，补充一些要点，然后我们将进入问答环节，欢迎各位就感兴趣的话题展开讨论。
Before I do hand it over to Rich, perhaps just stating the obvious, it is very much an interesting moment in the property and casualty space. We are reminded of the complications of this industry, an industry where you make a sale before you ultimately truly know your cost of goods sold. We have been grappling with this reality as an industry forever. But there are moments in time when it comes into sharper focus than others. We certainly, over the past several years, have had to grapple with financial or economic inflation and that was combined with social inflation, which we have talked about, and I suspect we'll continue to talk about.
在交给Rich之前，我想说一句显而易见的话：当前的财产与意外保险市场是一个非常有意思的时期。这个行业的复杂性再次显现——这是一个在你真正了解商品成本之前就已完成销售的行业。我们这个行业长期以来一直在与这一现实作斗争。但有些时刻，这个问题会格外清晰。过去几年里，我们必须应对经济通胀，这还叠加了我们多次提及的“社会通胀”问题，我相信这也是我们今后仍会讨论的话题。
But while on the heels of COVID, financial or economic inflation seems to be brought far more under control, there are some real threats to that. Certainly, tariffs are top of mind for all of us. In addition to that, one should not lose sight of what's going on in the labor market and what that may mean for wage inflation over time, particularly around some of the administration policies that they are in the process of putting into place. And finally, there is the big question around deficits and what that will ultimately mean for the economy. And lastly, to what extent can we expect the U.S. consumers continue to be the driver and allow the economy to remain as resilient as it's been. These are amongst some of the macro questions that we are grappling with. Obviously, there's applicability to both our underwriting activities and how we think about selecting and pricing risk. And furthermore, I think it goes without saying there's meaningful applicability to the investment portfolio and how we think about positioning that.
尽管疫情过后经济通胀似乎得到了更好的控制，但也存在一些现实威胁。首先，关税问题成为我们所有人关注的焦点。此外，我们也不能忽视劳动力市场的动向，以及这对未来工资通胀可能带来的影响，尤其是考虑到当前政府正在推进的一些政策。还有一个更大的问题是财政赤字，以及它最终将对经济产生怎样的影响。最后，我们还要思考，美国消费者能否持续发挥其作为经济驱动力的作用，令经济保持目前的韧性。这些都是我们当前正在应对的一些宏观问题。这些问题显然会影响我们的承保活动、风险选择和定价思路，同时我认为不言而喻，它们也会对我们的投资组合以及我们如何进行资产配置产生重大影响。
So as always, lots of moving pieces trying to not just interpret what they all mean for today, but also how we think about positioning the business going forward. So let me pause there and hand it over to Rich, and I will follow him with a few more sound bites. Rich, over to you, please.
所以，像往常一样，我们要面对很多不断变化的因素，不仅要理解它们对当下的意义，还要思考如何在未来进行战略定位。我先讲到这里，把时间交给Rich，稍后我会再补充一些内容。Rich，请您继续。
Richard Mark Baio
Great. Thanks, Rob.
太好了，谢谢你，Rob。
The second quarter marked a continuation of strong performance in both underwriting income and net investment income. Net income per diluted share increased 8.7% over the prior year to \$1 per share or \$401 million with an annualized return on beginning of year equity of 19.1%. The definition of operating earnings commencing with this quarter has been changed to exclude after-tax foreign currency gains and losses. And accordingly, operating earnings were \$420 million or \$1.05 per share yielding an annualized return on beginning of year equity of 20%.
第二季度公司在承保收入和净投资收益方面继续保持强劲表现。稀释后每股净收益同比增长8.7%，达到每股1美元，合计4.01亿美元，年化年初股本回报率为19.1%。从本季度开始，运营收益的定义已调整，不再包含税后外汇损益。因此，本季度运营收益为4.2亿美元，即每股1.05美元，对应年初股本的年化回报率为20%。
Starting with underwriting performance. Our current accident year combined ratio before cat losses of 3.2 loss ratio points was 88.4%, comprised of an accident year loss ratio excluding cats of 59.9% and an expense ratio of 28.5%. The calendar year combined ratio was 91.6%, resulting in \$261 million of underwriting income. Cat losses were \$99 million in the second quarter of 2025 compared with \$90 million or 3.2 loss ratio points in the prior year's quarter. While the industry saw an above-average frequency of severe storms, the point impact of cat losses on our combined ratio remained flat even as the dollar amount of losses marginally increased with the growth in our property book of business over the prior year.
首先来看承保表现。本事故年度的综合赔付率（在扣除3.2个百分点的灾难损失前）为88.4%，其中不含灾难的事故年度赔付率为59.9%，费用率为28.5%。历年基础的综合赔付率为91.6%，对应承保利润为2.61亿美元。2025年第二季度的灾难损失为9,900万美元，高于去年同期的9,000万美元或3.2个百分点。尽管行业经历了高于平均水平的强烈风暴频率，但灾难损失对我们的综合赔付率的影响维持不变，主要得益于我们财产险业务规模的增长对冲了损失金额的轻微上升。
Drilling down further, the Insurance segment's quarterly accident year loss ratio ex cat was relatively flat year-over-year and sequentially at 60.7%, bringing the accident year combined ratio before cats to 89%. The Reinsurance & Monoline Excess segment's accident year loss ratio ex cat increased to 54.1% with a strong accident year combined ratio before cats of 83.8%. The expense ratio overall was flat at 28.5% and continue to benefit from the growth in net premiums earned, which was a quarterly record of \$3.1 billion.
进一步来看，保险业务板块的季度事故年度赔付率（不含灾难）同比和环比基本持平，为60.7%，对应的事故年度综合赔付率（不含灾难）为89%。再保险与单一险种超额业务板块的事故年度赔付率（不含灾难）上升至54.1%，但事故年度综合赔付率仍保持强劲，为83.8%。整体费用率维持在28.5%的水平，继续受益于净已赚保费的增长，本季度创下31亿美元的新高。
In addition, net premiums written increased to a record \$3.4 billion in the quarter with growth in all lines of business in both segments. Record net investment income of \$379 million benefited from the ongoing growth in the invested assets from strong operating cash flow and new money rates on fixed maturity securities that remain comfortably above our average book yield. Investment income from fixed maturity securities, excluding Argentine inflation linked securities improved 16.5% year-over-year with an increase in book yield of 20 basis points to 4.7%.
此外，本季度净承保保费增长至创纪录的34亿美元，两大业务板块的所有险种均实现增长。净投资收益创下3.79亿美元的纪录，得益于运营现金流的持续强劲推动资产投资规模扩大，以及新购入固定收益证券的利率持续高于账面平均收益率。剔除阿根廷通胀挂钩证券后，固定收益证券的投资收益同比增长16.5%，账面收益率提高20个基点，至4.7%。
Our investment funds performed above our expected quarterly range of \$10 million to \$20 million with strong results of \$27 million, driven by transportation, infrastructure and financial services sectors. The quality of our portfolio remains very strong at AA- with the duration on our fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash equivalents, increasing from the fourth quarter of 2.6 years to the current quarter of 2.8 years. Foreign currency losses in the quarter of \$55 million related to the weakening U.S. dollar relative to most other currencies.
我们的投资基金本季度表现强于预期区间（1,000万至2,000万美元），录得2,700万美元的强劲收益，主要得益于交通、基建和金融服务领域的表现。我们的投资组合质量仍维持在AA-的较高水平，固定收益投资（包括现金及现金等价物）的平均久期从第四季度的2.6年上升至本季度的2.8年。本季度外汇损失为5,500万美元，主要由于美元兑多数其他货币走弱。
Offsetting this income statement loss is an improvement in the currency translation loss and stockholders' equity of \$69 million. The effective tax rate was 23.2% in the quarter, which is in line with our expectations for the full year of 2025. The rate exceeds the U.S. statutory rate of 21% due to taxes on foreign earnings at higher rates and state income taxes. Stockholders' equity increased by more than \$380 million or 4.3% over the first quarter of 2025 to a record \$9.3 billion. After-tax unrealized investment losses improved by \$120 million to a balance of \$249 million as of June 30, 2025.
这项损益表上的外汇损失被6,900万美元的汇兑损失和股东权益改善所抵消。本季度的有效税率为23.2%，符合我们对2025年全年预期，税率高于美国法定税率21%，主要由于对海外收益适用更高税率以及州所得税的影响。股东权益较2025年第一季度增长超3.8亿美元，即增长4.3%，达到创纪录的93亿美元。截至2025年6月30日，税后未实现投资损失减少1.2亿美元，余额为2.49亿美元。
From a capital management perspective, we paid ordinary and special dividends of \$224 million in the quarter, bringing our growth in book value per share before dividends to 6.8% in the quarter and 14.3% on a year-to-date basis. Our balance sheet remains strong with cash and cash equivalents of more than \$2 billion and historically low financial leverage of 23.4%.
在资本管理方面，本季度我们支付了2.24亿美元的普通及特别股息，本季度每股账面价值在未计入分红前增长6.8%，年初至今增长14.3%。我们的资产负债表依然稳健，现金及现金等价物超过20亿美元，财务杠杆维持在历史低位的23.4%。
So in summary, another great quarter with exceptional risk-adjusted returns and excellent underwriting and investment performance. Rob, with that, I'll turn it back to you.
总的来说，这是又一个出色的季度，具备卓越的风险调整后回报，以及优异的承保和投资表现。Rob，我把话筒交还给你。
William Robert Berkley
Great. Rich, thank you very much.
太好了，谢谢你，Rich。
So maybe just to follow on Rich's comments, a couple of additional thoughts. First, I think as everyone on the call is acutely aware, this is still very much a cyclical industry. As we have discussed in the past, though, one of the changes that has happened over the past, I don't know, sort of 5 to 10 years is a decoupling of product lines as to where they are in the cycle. So the cyclical nature still exists, but where different major product lines are in the cycle, they are certainly no longer in lockstep.
接下来我想在Rich的发言基础上补充几点。首先，我相信在座各位都非常清楚，这仍然是一个高度周期性的行业。不过，正如我们过去所讨论的，在过去大约五到十年间，行业发生了一个变化——各类主要产品线的周期位置已经开始“脱钩”。换句话说，虽然行业整体仍具周期性，但不同产品线的周期位置已经不再同步。
To that end, a couple of thoughts on the insurance marketplace. One, the property market. Clearly, that marketplace is becoming more competitive as we have discussed for a couple of quarters now. Probably 2 drivers there: one would be a reinsurance marketplace that is becoming more competitive and is willing to provide capacity at a lower rate; and the second piece is as discussed by some of the MGA market, which is becoming clearly more active. And I'll offer a few thoughts on the MGA market a little bit later in my comments. I would tell you that the property market there is a notable bifurcation while the general direction is more competitive. The larger accounts, particularly shared and layered, as we've discussed in the past couple of quarters is where greater competition is the smaller accounts, it's not that there isn't competition, but it pales in comparison to the larger end of town.
因此，我想谈谈保险市场的一些看法。首先是财产保险市场。显然，正如我们过去几个季度所提到的，该市场正变得越来越具竞争性。背后可能有两个主要驱动因素：第一是再保险市场竞争加剧，愿意以更低的价格提供承保能力；第二是MGA（Managing General Agent）市场活跃度显著提高。稍后我会就MGA市场再补充几点看法。就财产险市场而言，存在明显的分化趋势：整体上竞争在加剧，但大额账户——尤其是那种分层共保结构的——竞争更为激烈。相比之下，小额账户虽然也有竞争，但程度远不及大额端。
As far as commercial transportation, again, another product line where there is a fair amount of activity coming from MGAs. That marketplace, we continue to and others seem to be pushing for rate, but without a doubt, the MGA participants are creating at least a short-term headwind for that market truly going hard. My expectation is that, that's a bit of a kink in the hose, if you will, and consequently, it is going to build up pressure and ultimately, we'll inure to the benefit of responsible long-term participates when that snaps and the market shifts.
至于商业运输险，这又是一个MGA参与活跃的业务线。该市场中，我们以及其他一些公司仍在努力推动费率上调，但毫无疑问，MGA的介入在短期内形成了阻力，抑制了市场进入真正“硬市场”的进程。我认为这更像是水管中的一个弯折，随着压力积聚，终有一天会突然释放，届时市场将出现转向，而那些负责任、长期参与的公司将从中受益。
Professional liability, again, a bit of mix -- of a mixed bag as we all have a shared appreciation, a very broad space. Just a couple of highlights on D&O. It would seem as though the public D&O market is beginning to find some sense of bottom private and non-for- profit D&O remains particularly competitive as some of, what I would, define as miscellaneous there is, again, an MGA component to it since people seem to be very fixated on the topic. I thought I'd flag that as well.
至于职业责任险，情况则略显复杂——正如大家所了解的，这个领域非常广泛。我想简单点一下董事与高管责任险（D&O）的几个要点。公开公司的D&O市场似乎正在筑底，而私人公司和非营利组织的D&O市场依然竞争激烈。这个领域里也存在一定比例的“杂项”业务，其中同样有MGA的身影。既然大家对MGA话题很关注，我就把这一点也标出来。
As far as the casualty lines, clearly, there is opportunity to get the rate that the product line needs. It is pronounced both in the primary casualty as well as the umbrella and Excess.
至于责任险产品线，目前显然仍有机会实现所需的费率调整，这一点在基础责任险、伞状险以及超额责任险等方面都表现得相当明显。
And finally, as far as workers' compensation goes, presumably all had an opportunity to take note of the action coming out of California. I think some time ago, we had flagged for those that were willing to listen that it seemed as though California as opposed to in the more distant past, this time around is out in front of the rest of the market as far as firming. I think the action taken by the commissioner approving 8.7% effective 09/01 is certainly a strong message that was well received by us, and we look forward to more coming behind that.
最后，就工伤赔偿险而言，我想大家可能已经注意到加州最近的动态。早在一段时间之前，我们曾经提醒过愿意倾听的人，这一次与以往不同，加州在市场硬化方面走在了全国前列。我们非常欢迎加州保险监管机构批准自9月1日起上调8.7%的这一决定，这传递了一个强烈而积极的信号，我们也期待后续会有更多类似举措。
I think one other comment I would make would be around the consumer space, particularly P&C personal lines. As you all know, we have a meaningful participation in the private client space, which is a very different business from what I would define as mass market. It is a part of the market that is built or driven by knowledge and expertise. And we have a business that is really coming into its own in that space and has been a great contributor, not just to the top line but to the bottom line as well. And those market conditions remain ripe and we are pleased to have that opportunity.
我还想补充一点，关于个人消费者领域，尤其是产险个人业务。正如大家所知，我们在高净值私人客户市场上有相当重要的布局，这是一类与大众市场截然不同的业务。这一市场的基础在于专业知识与经验的积累。我们在该领域的业务目前正进入成熟期，不仅在营收上有所贡献，在利润方面也表现出色。目前市场环境仍非常有利，我们也很高兴能把握住这个机会。
I mentioned reinsurance earlier as far as the reinsurance marketplace, providing capacity within the property lines, perhaps the discipline, I think, eroding. I think we've talked about that in the past. It continues to erode. We'll have to see how quickly it remains, and what -- how steep the trajectory is, I should say.
我之前也提到了再保险市场，尤其是在为财产险业务提供承保能力方面，我认为市场的纪律性正在削弱。我们过去就谈论过这个问题，现在这种削弱趋势还在持续。我们还需要观察其速度会有多快，这个趋势的“坡度”究竟有多陡。
And finally, we've expressed our disappointment with the discipline, particularly on the casualty lines within the reinsurance space. I offered a couple of sound bites about MGAs just as a broad category earlier. And within the industry, people tend to oftentimes use some terminology, perhaps somewhat casually and almost interchangeably, around MGA, MGU and ultimately really falls under the category, if you like, of delegated authority. There is no doubt that inherently in many of the delegated authority models, there is a mismatch or a lack of alignment of interest between those with the pen and those with the capital. It is not that all of these relationships are bad, some of them are quite good, one just needs to have their eyes wide open and understand that it is not a perfect alignment of interest and make sure that it is controlled appropriately.
最后，我要重申我们对再保险领域，尤其是责任险业务纪律性缺失的失望。我之前简单提及过MGA作为一个大类的现象。在业内，人们常常混用MGA、MGU等术语，实际上它们都可以归为“授权承保”模式的一种。毫无疑问，在很多授权承保模式中，持笔承保者与资本出资方之间的利益往往存在不匹配或对齐不足的问题。当然，并不是所有这种关系都是坏的，有些是非常好的。关键在于我们要睁大眼睛，充分认识到这些关系并非天生就利益一致，并确保对其进行妥善监管。
That having been said, there has been extraordinary growth in the MGA space. A lot of it has been generated by new entrants that lack expertise. A lot of it has been supported by reinsurance capacity that seems to have an unquenchable thirst for growth without necessarily their finger fully on the pulse. We'll have to see how this plays out. I think for many of us that have been around for at least a little while, and those that have been -- particularly those that have been around for a long while, have seen some version of this movie.
话虽如此，MGA市场的增长确实非常迅猛。其中相当一部分增长来自缺乏经验的新进入者；而支撑这一增长的，是再保险公司提供的承保能力，而这些公司似乎对增长有着难以满足的渴望，却未必对市场的真实动态有清晰认知。我们还需拭目以待这场博弈如何收场。对我们这些在行业中摸爬滚打了一段时间，尤其是那些经历丰富的从业者来说，这样的“剧情”其实已经不是第一次上演了。
In some ways, it's the same and other ways, it's different. Perhaps the only difference is that it's a different test of characters. One final anecdote on the MGA front, I would tell you that over the last 60 to 90 days, it's been a startling number of inbound calls that we have gotten from investment bankers suggesting that MGAs that they have to sell, would we be interested in buying them. And typically, they are capitalized or owned by private equity.
在某些方面，这一切和过去如出一辙；但在另一些方面，又不尽相同。也许唯一的区别是，这次考验的是不同的人。关于MGA的最后一个小插曲：在过去60至90天里，我们接到了令人震惊的大量来自投行的电话，他们建议我们收购一些正在出售的MGA。这些MGA通常是由私募股权公司出资或控股的。
So oftentimes, perhaps a leading indicator that the music is slowing and we'll see who has a seat at the end, though oftentimes, that does take some time. Rich, as always, did a really thorough job as it relates to the quarter and the numbers, I would just call out the rate at the 7.6% ex comp continues to be meaningful and puts us in a comfortable place. Rich talked about the loss ratio. Again, I'm not going to go into a chapter and [indiscernible]. The 3.2 points of cat was really frequency by industry standards, modest severity.
这通常可能是一个领先指标，表明“音乐”即将停止，等到最后就能看出谁还有座位，尽管这往往需要一点时间。Rich像往常一样，对季度财务和数据做了非常扎实的讲解。我只想强调一点：在不包括工伤险的情况下，我们取得了7.6%的费率增幅，这一结果非常有意义，使我们处在一个令人安心的位置。Rich也提到了赔付率，我就不再展开讲述。关于那3.2个百分点的灾难损失，主要是发生频率偏高，但就行业标准而言，严重程度算是温和。
And then lastly, you would have -- it's worth noting the duration of the investment portfolio edging out to 2.8 years. Again, I think this is exactly what we suggested we would be doing if the story unfolded the way it has. We continue to believe that our strategy is the right one, making sure that we are getting an appropriate risk-adjusted return.
最后值得注意的是，我们投资组合的平均久期已经延长至2.8年。再次说明，正如我们所预期并计划的，事情的发展路径确实促使我们采取这样的行动。我们仍然相信，我们的策略是正确的，确保公司获得合理的风险调整后回报。
I think as Rich alluded to, the cash flow of the organization remains very healthy. The growth in the investment portfolio remains quite significant. And if you think about a new money rate for us today is running about, give or take, 5.25 and the book yield on the portfolio ex Argentina is 4.7%. That certainly bodes well for where investment income is going for the foreseeable.
正如Rich所提到的，公司整体的现金流依旧非常健康，投资资产组合仍在稳健增长。目前我们新增投资的利率大约在5.25%左右，而剔除阿根廷资产后的投资组合账面收益率为4.7%。这无疑为我们未来一段时间内的投资收益指明了良好的前景。
So long story short, we can't control the environment, but we can control our actions. We remain very focused on making good risk-adjusted returns, the decoupling of product lines and how they make their way through the cycle, combined with the breadth of our
总的来说，我们无法控制宏观环境，但可以控制自己的行动。我们始终专注于获取优质的风险调整后收益。产品线的周期“脱钩”现象以及各自的发展节奏，加上我们业务布局的广度，
offering allows us to continue to grow when others perhaps are experiencing more of a headwind. In our opinion, you certainly are seeing different product lines at different points of transition. We have historically and continue to be more of a liability market, and we think that much of the liability market is where the opportunity will likely be over the next 12 to 36 months.
使我们在其他公司面临逆风时，依然能够实现增长。在我们看来，不同产品线正处于不同的周期过渡阶段。我们过去一直是、现在仍是一个以责任险为核心的公司，而我们认为在未来12至36个月里，责任险市场将蕴含大量机会。
So again, we think we're well positioned on the underwriting side. We think we're well positioned on the investment side, and it is our expectation that we will be able to continue to grow earnings in a very thoughtful and controlled manner. So with that, Abby, I will take a pause, and we're very pleased to open it up for questions. Thank you.
因此，我们认为自己在承保方面布局得当，在投资方面同样也已就位。我们预计能够在高度审慎且可控的前提下，继续实现盈利增长。好了，Abby，我先暂停一下，我们很高兴现在进入问答环节。谢谢大家。
Question-and-Answer Session
问答环节
Operator
[Operator Instructions]
[操作员指引省略]
And our first question comes from the line of Rob Cox with Goldman Sachs.
我们的第一个提问来自高盛的Rob Cox。
Robert Cox
Just first question on growth, just thinking about the growth potential here. I know it was a tougher quarter with the property pricing deceleration, but just curious if you all still view this as sort of a 10% to 15% growth environment? Or has the last few quarters changed that?
第一个问题是关于增长的。考虑到本季度财产险定价有所放缓，我想请问你们是否仍然将当前视为一个10%至15%的增长环境？还是说最近几个季度的情况改变了你们的看法？
William Robert Berkley
Look, I think we had come out with that band, if you will, probably, I don't know, call it, 18 months ago, maybe 24 months ago, if you're asking my best guesstimate at this stage in spite of the number that we saw in this quarter, my view is that it's probably somewhere between 8% and 12% would be my guess as opposed to 10% to 15%.
我记得我们最初提出10%至15%这个增长区间，大概是在18个月、也许24个月之前吧。如果你问我现在的最新判断，尽管本季度的数据略低，我会认为目前更合理的增长区间是在8%到12%之间，而不是原先的10%到15%。
Robert Cox
Okay. Got it. That's helpful. And then just curious on the underlying loss ratio. I think last quarter, you all mentioned that the impact of the outward reinsurance program was a business mix related headwind. This quarter, the underlying loss ratio, at least in insurance seems pretty flat. Anything else unusual to call out there? Or is that just normal dynamics?
明白了，谢谢解答。接下来关于基本赔付率的问题。上个季度你们曾提到，外部再保险计划对赔付率构成了一些不利影响，是由业务组合结构变化导致的。本季度保险板块的基本赔付率看起来比较平稳，这当中有没有什么特别需要指出的变化，还是说只是正常的业务动态？
William Robert Berkley
I think it continues to primarily be mixed as far as the loss ratio.
我认为目前赔付率的主要变化仍然归因于业务组合结构的影响。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Alex Scott with Barclays.
下一位提问者是来自Barclays的Alex Scott。
Taylor Alexander Scott
You mentioned tariffs and labor costs in your opening remarks. And I just wanted to understand if you're actually seeing anything coming through if that's more of like a forward-looking statement. And obviously, it's the wider range out?
您在开场时提到了关税和劳动力成本。我想了解一下，这是否是您目前已经观察到的情况，还是更偏向于前瞻性陈述？显然这属于时间跨度更大的议题，对吗？
William Robert Berkley
It is a forward-looking statement. We are not seeing it in any noteworthy way in our loss activity right now. At the same time, we are conscious of the fact that, that concept of timing that I referenced in conjunction with the point that you're flagging. And we want to make sure that we're not caught flat-footed. I think at this stage, given the -- what we're seeing coming out of the administration, it's hard to imagine that tariffs are going to prove this to be something that goes away, but we'll see.
这确实是前瞻性的陈述。目前在我们的损失活动中还没有以任何显著的方式体现出来。与此同时，我们也很清楚您指出的问题所涉及的时机因素。我们希望确保自己不会措手不及。我认为，在目前我们看到政府所采取的行动下，很难想象关税问题会就此消失，但我们拭目以待。
And as far as the labor piece goes from our perspective, ultimately when the day is all done, just given the position around immigration and related activities and the actions that the administration are putting into place, there is no doubt that there are certain jobs that are going to need to be filled at a different payroll point than they have been. And ultimately, that presumably will drive labor costs.
至于劳动力方面，从我们的角度来看，最终鉴于目前关于移民的政策立场和政府所采取的相关行动，毫无疑问，有些岗位将不得不以不同于以往的工资水平来填补。最终，这预计将推动劳动力成本上升。
Taylor Alexander Scott
That makes sense. Second one I have is on the trajectory of margins from here. I mean pricing still remaining pretty firm. It seems like you guys have been disciplined and still getting pretty good rate in there. But just wanted to understand, is it still about loss cost trend, can margins still improve from here or remain flat? And would you expect sort of mix shift with casualty being the bigger opportunity maybe to affect it one way or the other?
这说得通。我的第二个问题是关于利润率的走向。目前价格依然相当坚挺，看起来你们一直很有纪律，定价也拿得不错。但我想了解一下，现在的关注点还是在损失成本趋势上吗？利润率是否还有提升空间，或者会保持稳定？另外，您是否预计险种组合的变化，比如责任险成为更大的增长机会，会在某种程度上影响利润率？
William Robert Berkley
I think when the day is all done, we feel comfortable that the rate that we are achieving is positioning us well, not just for today but for tomorrow as well. So can things improve here? Yes, I think things can improve from here. But at the same time, we are all regularly reminded that there is no reward for declaring victory prematurely. And in addition to that, we are also regularly reminded of all of the significantly leveraged variables that one should not reach a conclusion about prematurely.
我认为最终而言，我们对当前实现的费率感到满意，它不仅为今天也为未来奠定了良好基础。所以说情况是否还能改善？我认为是可以的。但同时我们也经常被提醒，不要过早宣布胜利是非常重要的。此外，还有许多高度杠杆化的变量，我们也被不断提醒不能过早下结论。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Elyse Greenspan with Wells Fargo.
下一位提问者是来自富国银行的Elyse Greenspan。
Elyse Beth Greenspan
My first question is actually on capital. You guys didn't buy back any shares in the quarter. Just wondering what drove that decision?
我的第一个问题是关于资本管理的。本季度你们没有回购任何股票，我想知道这一决策背后的原因是什么？
William Robert Berkley
Look, ultimately, Elyse, when the day is all done, as we've shared with you and others in the past, we have a view as to how much capital we have and what type of surplus we have at any moment in time. We have a view as to what we see is opportunities potentially before us and want to make sure that we have a surplus of gas in the tank. And in addition to that, ultimately, there's a judgment made around to the extent there's above and beyond what is the most efficient way to return that to shareholders.
Elyse，说到底，就像我们过去和你们以及其他人分享过的，我们对自身所拥有的资本总量以及当前时点上的盈余状况有清晰的判断。我们也会评估面前可能出现的机会，并确保“油箱”里有足够的余量。此外，我们也会判断如果有超出部分，该如何以最有效率的方式返还给股东。
As Rich flagged in his notes, it's not that we weren't returning capital to shareholders, we returned a few hundred million dollars to shareholders. It just seemed at that moment in time, the most efficient and effective way to return the money to the people that belong was through a special dividend. I would strongly encourage you and others not to lead to the assumption that we are out of the repurchase market because that is not the case. We evaluate that tool, along with other tools every day.
正如Rich在他的话中指出的，并不是说我们没有向股东返还资本，我们实际上向股东返还了数亿美元。只是当时看来，通过特别股息是最有效、最具效率的方式。我强烈建议你以及其他人不要认为我们已经退出了回购市场，因为事实并非如此。我们每天都会把股票回购和其他工具一起作为评估对象。
And again, what we think is the most practical answer to the surplus of capital question. Obviously, we can do our own math as others can do their math as to what we believe real book value is as opposed to this cockamamie accountant version of math. And we also have a view on the earnings power of the business going forward, which I would add, we are quite optimistic about. So again, I would encourage you not to count the \[indiscernible] of the repurchase activity.
归根结底，我们会寻找对多余资本的最实际回应。显然，我们会做自己的计算，别人也会做他们的计算，关于我们认为的“真实账面价值”——而不是那些荒谬的会计版本。此外，我们对公司未来的盈利能力也有自己的判断，我想强调的是，我们对此非常乐观。所以再次强调，不要认为我们已经排除了回购的可能性。
Elyse Beth Greenspan
And then my second question, you guys gave the underlying loss ratios right by segment. So back into around, I guess, \$6 million adverse insurance and I think just around \$8 million favorable in reinsurance. Within that \$6 million in insurance, is there anything -- obviously, a large amount of reserves, but anything to call out that particularly moved relative to your reserves in the quarter?
我的第二个问题是，你们公布了各个板块的基础赔付率。如果回推，大概是600万美元的不利保险端影响，以及800万美元的再保端利好。在这600万美元的保险端部分，是否有任何特别值得指出的事项，导致本季度的准备金出现了显著变化？
William Robert Berkley
Nothing particularly noteworthy. Just us -- as we've shared with you and others in the past, we look at it every 90 days -- we'll we're looking at it every day, but every 90 days, we're looking at it at a pretty granular level and a couple of bits and pieces moving around. That's all.
没有特别值得一提的事情。就像我们过去跟你们以及其他人说的，我们每90天会做一次深入分析——当然我们每天都在看，但每90天我们会以更细致的方式审查，只是一些小的项目有些波动，仅此而已。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Mike Zaremski with BMO Capital Markets.
下一位提问者是来自BMO Capital Markets的Mike Zaremski。
Michael David Zaremski
Rob, on the 15% Mitsui stake, any update on the timeframe and timeline there?
Rob，关于三井所持15%股权的事，有没有最新的时间表或进展可以分享？
William Robert Berkley
I know no more than anybody else or at least anybody else who bothered to read the SEC filings. Again, I think as we -- I don't know if we share it or not, if we didn't, I said that we, by design, have not been privy to sort of where they stand in their process because in no way, shape or form, perhaps back to one of Elyse's points, we don't want to be encumbered or restricted in any way and our ability to repurchase stock. So the short answer is I have no idea.
我知道的信息和其他人一样，或者说和那些认真读过SEC文件的人一样多。再强调一次，我们（我不记得我们是否说过这点）是刻意不参与他们的相关进程的，因为我们不希望在任何形式上受到限制——这可能也回应了Elyse刚才的问题——尤其是不希望影响我们回购股票的能力。所以简单回答就是：我不知道。
Michael David Zaremski
Understood. But we'll -- we should see disclosure once it gets -- it's over \[indiscernible], is that correct?
明白了。但一旦他们的持股超过\[听不清]，我们应该就能看到披露，对吗？
William Robert Berkley
I have a high degree of confidence that they will fully comply with any regulation from the SEC from a filing perspective. My understanding is that I think to comply with the SEC, they're going to need to do a filing once they reach 4.99% or call it 5%. And as far as I'm aware, they have not done that yet.
我高度相信他们在申报方面会完全遵守SEC的相关规定。据我了解，为了遵守SEC规则，一旦他们的持股比例达到4.99%或者说5%，他们就需要进行申报。截至目前，据我所知，他们还没有这么做。
Michael David Zaremski
Got it. Understood. Maybe pivoting, Rob, to the medical inflation environment as it pertains to your work comp and I believe, also stop loss portfolio. We are obviously seeing all the headlines that you've been seeing. Any updates that -- I know you mentioned California as well, obviously, earlier. But any kind of updates on the macro level to Berkley's views on medical inflation potentially making their way into the comp and/or A\&H arena?
明白了。我们换个话题，Rob，关于医疗通胀的问题，特别是它对你们的工伤险和我认为也包括stop loss业务的影响。我们都看到了那些新闻头条。有没有什么最新情况？我知道你之前也提到过加州的情况，但从宏观层面看，Berkley对于医疗通胀可能传导到工伤险或意健险领域的看法有没有新变化？
William Robert Berkley
Well, I think it has been and continues to be something that our colleagues and by extension, Rich, the Chairman and I are focused on. And as we've discussed, it's a very leveraged assumption. Maybe the only other wildcard that I would layer on top, Mike, is the commentary that has come out of the administration regarding its desire to onshore pharmaceutical in particular, manufacturing. And I think it was just a couple of weeks ago that there was a comment that came from the President that suggested he was entertaining the possibility of a 200% tariff on all pharmaceuticals that are imported.
我认为，这件事过去和现在都一直是我们团队关注的重点之一，也包括我和董事长Rich。如我们之前讨论的，这是一项杠杆非常高的假设。也许我想补充的另一个不确定因素，Mike，就是目前政府方面有一些言论，表达了希望把医药制造，尤其是制药业，迁回本土的意愿。我记得就在几周前，总统还提到过他正在考虑对所有进口药品征收200%的关税。
That having been said, I just read earlier today that the discussions with the EU would suggest there would be no tariffs on pharmaceuticals or medical devices. So I think for all of us, the message perhaps is just stay tuned. But without a doubt, if we saw a levy to the tune of 200% on pharmaceuticals that's something that would have an impact and perhaps to jump ahead and anticipate your question.
不过今天早些时候我又读到，有关与欧盟的谈判中显示，药品和医疗设备将不会被征收关税。所以我认为，对我们所有人来说，目前的态度可能就是“继续观望”。但毫无疑问，如果真的对药品征收200%的关税，那将会产生影响，也许我可以提前回答你可能要问的问题：
Yes, we have done quite a bit of sensitivity analysis as to what that would mean for us. And at the moment, we feel comfortable that we can manage through that.
是的，我们确实做了大量关于这种情境的敏感性分析。目前来看，我们有信心可以应对这样的情况。
Michael David Zaremski
Okay. That's helpful. And lastly, Rich, I believe I heard you talk about the new operating earnings, non-GAAP definition. Any -- just we'll go back and check, but does that change historicals by like very low single digits? And any reason we should be aware of and why the change?
明白了，这很有帮助。最后一个问题，Rich，我刚才听到你提到新的非GAAP运营利润定义。我们会回头再去核查一下，但请问这个调整对历史数据的影响是不是只有很小的个位数变化？另外，有什么特别的原因我们应该注意，为什么要做这个调整？
Richard Mark Baio
I think it's really a couple of things. One, what we've noticed and we've had some conversations with some of the equity analysts over the last few quarters in terms of some of the volatility that's been coming about as a result of some of the changes that Rob has alluded to since the new administration. And with the equity analysts not really including it because it's not modeled in, you felt it was a more straightforward approach with regards to having foreign currency gains and losses excluded. And you would see if you were to go back over time, there has been some volatility from period to period, but in particular, over the last couple of quarters, we've seen quite a bit.
我认为主要有几个方面的考虑。第一，我们注意到，并且在过去几个季度也与一些股票分析师有过沟通，发现一些波动来自于Rob提到的新政府上任以来的一些政策变化。而这些项目往往没有被分析师纳入模型中，因此我们认为将外汇的盈亏排除在外，是一种更简洁、清晰的处理方式。如果你回顾过去的数据，会发现各期之间的确存在一些波动，尤其是在过去几个季度，这种波动相对更明显。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Andrew Kligerman with TD Cowen.
下一位提问者是来自TD Cowen的Andrew Kligerman。
Andrew Scott Kligerman
Rob, you mentioned in the write-up rate increases were 7.6% ex workers' comp. And I know that you're kind of writing a more specialized, higher risk line. So I was just kind of curious, how is the workers' comp pricing doing in that arena? And any other color on the workers' comp in addition to your prepared remarks you might call out?
Rob，您在材料中提到剔除工伤险后的费率增长是7.6%。我知道你们承保的是一些更专业、风险更高的险种，所以我好奇在这个领域里，工伤险的定价情况如何？除了您刚才准备的发言外，关于工伤险还有没有其他值得一提的看法？
William Robert Berkley
Well, thanks for the question, Andrew. The answer is that I think what you perhaps are referring to is some of the higher hazard stuff where we see growth opportunities from time to time, we saw, particularly in the first quarter. It was still there in the second quarter, but perhaps not to the same \[rate]. That having been said, we do like the pricing there, and that's why we're leaning into it. And while we maintain a little bit more of a defensive posture with the Main Street stuff. What I would define as the higher hazard, more specialty in nature. We're very pleased with the opportunities that we see there.
谢谢你的问题，Andrew。我想你可能在说的是那些高风险类别，我们会在其中不时看到增长机会，尤其在第一季度表现突出，第二季度仍有一些，但可能不如第一季度那么明显。话虽如此，我们对该领域的定价感到满意，这也是我们持续投入的原因。同时，我们在传统“Main Street”业务上保持相对防守的姿态。我所说的那些更高风险、专业性更强的业务板块，我们对目前看到的机会感到非常满意。
Andrew Scott Kligerman
Got it. And Rob, you mentioned in your remarks some disappointment with commercial auto. As I look at the numbers in your release, net written premium looked up. It looked like it was up roughly 10%. So is that all just raised? And you're just -- are you feeling confident in the book that you have?
明白了。Rob，您在发言中提到对商用车险有些失望。但我看你们发布的数据，净承保保费大概增长了10%。这是不是纯粹靠提价实现的？您是否对你们目前的商用车险账面感到有信心？
William Robert Berkley
Yes, we're confident in the book. And is it raised? The answer is yes, and then some.
是的，我们对这部分业务账面是有信心的。至于是否靠提价？答案是，是的，而且不止于此。
Andrew Scott Kligerman
I see.
明白了。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Mark Hughes with Truist.
下一位提问者是来自Truist的Mark Hughes。
Mark Douglas Hughes
On the other liability line, the growth was just a little bit slower this quarter, you expressed some of kind of continuing optimism about Primary and Excess. At the same time, you kind of bound back your growth outlook just a little bit. Are you seeing any kind of inflection in that core GL or Excess market? Or is that still consistent with prior couple of quarters?
本季度你们在其他责任险这一块的增长略显放缓，不过你们对主险和超额责任险依然表现出持续的乐观态度。与此同时，你们又稍微下调了一点增长预期。请问在核心的普通责任险或超额险市场上，你们是否看到了某种拐点？还是说这些趋势和前几个季度保持一致？
William Robert Berkley
Yes, we're still encouraged by the opportunity that we see there. So my recalibrating, if you will, as far as the growth opportunity is really a couple of fold. One, on the commercial property opportunity, I think that there's going to be a bit more of a headwind. I think the -- I think the casualty piece that you just referred to, I think that opportunity very much remains there. I also think just going back to the commercial auto piece, I think that, that will prove to be a terrific opportunity, but it's going to take a little bit longer to get there.
是的，我们对那一领域的机会仍然感到鼓舞。至于我对增长预期的“重新校准”，主要有几个方面的考虑。第一，商用财产险那边，我认为将面临更多阻力。第二，关于你刚提到的意外责任险部分，我认为机会依然存在。第三，回到商用车险上，我相信它最终会成为一个非常不错的机会，但可能需要更长一点的时间才能兑现。
On the other hand, I think that on the reinsurance front property, in particular, has probably seen its best day for some time. And for the life of me, I don't understand why the casualty marketplace \[isn't] getting a little more backbone.
另一方面，就再保险尤其是财产险方面来说，我认为可能已经度过了这波行情的高点。而老实说，我实在不明白为什么意外责任险市场到现在还没表现得更有底气一些。
Mark Douglas Hughes
Yes. On the MGAs that are knocking on your door, is that always a hard no? Or is that something you might consider if the valuation was right? Or are they just -- their expectations are above and beyond what you'd ever consider paying?
关于那些来敲你们门的MGA（授权承保机构），你们的态度是否总是坚决拒绝？还是说如果估值合适你们也会考虑？或者说，他们的期望值根本远远高于你们愿意支付的价格？
William Robert Berkley
Ultimately when the day is all done, we evaluate every opportunity as you'd expect on its own merit. That having been said, we take the expertise and the responsibility to capital vary both of those things very seriously. So while we're always open to conversations, it's a pretty high hurdle to truly get us to want to engage.
最终，说到底，我们会像你所期待的一样，基于每个项目自身的优劣来评估每一个机会。话虽如此，我们对专业能力和资本责任这两点都极其重视。所以，虽然我们始终愿意听听市场的声音，但要让我们真正愿意参与其中，门槛是相当高的。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of David Motemaden Madden with Evercore ISI.
下一位提问者是来自Evercore ISI的David Motemaden。
David Kenneth Motemaden
Rob, just follow-up question maybe there to Mark's question. You had mentioned the bifurcated property market between large and small or large and middle, maybe we'll call it SMID, do you see that dynamic going in the opposite direction in some of the other markets, like casualty or maybe large accounts are seeing some rate increase acceleration and that's yet to really seep down and play out in the small to middle market or just hoping to get some color there in terms of how you're thinking about the opportunity.
Rob，我想就Mark的问题再做一个跟进。你刚才提到财产险市场在大企业与小型/中型企业之间出现了分化，我们姑且称为SMID。在其他领域，比如责任险，你是否也看到相反的趋势？比如大型账户的费率正在加速上升，而这种趋势尚未渗透到中小企业市场？希望能听听你对这些机会的看法。
William Robert Berkley
Look, I think taking half a step back, focusing on the casualty stuff, both Primary and Excess. I think the reality is that social inflation impacts the full spectrum. That having been said, without a doubt, plaintiff attorneys, tend to view limits as candy. And so the bigger the limits that are available, the more focus they get. That has been the case for some number of years at this stage. Do I think that we have seen an effort amongst the plaintiff attorney to go a little bit down market, yes, I do, but not dramatically. So when the day is all done, I think my expectation is that you're going to continue to see opportunities of the larger end of town, and that will continue to really waterfall through the whole casualty marketplace.
我们稍微退一步，专注于责任险领域，无论是主险还是超额责任险。现实是，社会通胀对整个风险谱系都有影响。毫无疑问，原告律师通常把保额当作糖果，保额越高，他们的关注度就越高。这种情况已经持续多年。我认为这些律师确实已经在尝试向中小市场渗透一些，但并没有大规模发生。因此，总体来看，我的判断是，大型账户仍将是机会所在，这种趋势将持续向整个责任险市场传导。
The good news is for the smaller accounts, they tend to be a little bit more insulated and the rate environment tends to be a little bit more sticky. So similar to perhaps one of the points you were making, the property market, the larger accounts are the ones that get targeted and you get the greatest feeding frenzy around early on. Well, that applies to casualty, too. So the rates are going up on the larger accounts and casualty. But the smaller and middle market is following and it tends to be stickier.
好消息是，中小客户在这方面通常受影响较小，费率也相对更“黏”，更稳定。就像你刚才提到财产险市场那样，最初涨价压力主要集中在大型账户上，引发“抢食”效应。这在责任险领域也是如此：大型账户的费率率先上涨，而中小市场随后跟进，且调整通常更为持久。
David Kenneth Motemaden
Got it. And then maybe just a follow-up here just on the tariffs. At least on the insurance side, didn't really look like there was anything going on in terms of the loss pick reinsurance, the underlying loss ratio did tick up. It doesn't look like you guys have embedded that into your view of loss trend, maybe just how are you thinking about that? And is that something you guys are considering doing?
明白了。接下来关于关税这块再追问一下。至少在保险端，目前看不出来在损失假设或再保安排上有什么变动，虽然基础赔付率确实略有上升。看起来你们还没有把这一因素纳入对损失趋势的判断。你们是怎么思考这个问题的？是否正在考虑把它纳入定价假设？
William Robert Berkley
It's certainly something that we're grappling with. We are paying close attention to it. We are already factoring it into how we think about required rate or rate need, and we're going to see how it unfolds from here. Obviously, the impact of tariffs while it may have applied to a broader cross-section of product, it is heavily weighted towards the shorter tail lines, so APD or property. At least that's how it would appear today barring pharma, et cetera, that we referred to earlier. So that's where we're focused, and we'll see how it unfolds. But yes, it is top of mind and action is being taken from a pricing perspective.
这确实是我们正在认真应对的问题，我们正在密切关注。我们已经将其纳入对“所需费率”的评估中，并将继续观察它的演变。显然，尽管关税可能适用于更广泛的产品类别，但其影响主要集中在短尾险种，比如APD（汽车物损）和财产险上。至少目前看是这样，除非未来药品等领域的关税如我们先前提到的发生变化。因此，我们当前的关注重点就在这些领域。可以肯定地说，这问题我们非常重视，并已在定价层面采取相应行动。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Wes Carmichael with Autonomous Research.
下一位提问者是来自Autonomous Research的Wes Carmichael。
Wesley Collin Carmichael
On the investment portfolio, I think, Rob, in your prepared remarks, you mentioned some moving pieces in terms of what you may do going forward. And \[indiscernible] I heard you had extended duration a little bit, but is there anything else that you might be thinking about in terms of potential repositioning or other actions on the portfolio?
关于投资组合的问题，Rob，我记得你在准备稿中提到你们可能会进行一些调整。我听到你们已经略微延长了久期，但除此之外，在投资组合的重新配置或其他操作方面，你们是否还有其他打算？
William Robert Berkley
I think we generally are of the view that the fixed income portfolio is particularly well positioned. I think that our expectation is certainly, given what you hear coming out of Washington, the yield curve may steepen a little bit from here, and that may be a catalyst or an opportunity where we'll choose to take the duration out a little bit further.
我们总体认为目前的固定收益投资组合配置得非常好。我们预计，鉴于来自华盛顿的政策信号，收益率曲线可能会从当前的位置进一步变陡，这可能会成为我们进一步延长久期的一个催化剂或机会。
Perhaps answering the question with a slightly different bent consistent with messaging in the past, while we have not completely turned our back to the alternative space going forward from a new money perspective, given the opportunities in the fixed income market, it's a pretty high hurdle. So we're pretty pleased with how things are positioned today, and we think we have a lot of flexibility regardless of what tomorrow will bring.
换个角度来说，延续我们过去传达的信息，尽管我们并未完全放弃在另类投资领域配置新资金的可能性，但在当前固定收益市场机会如此良好的背景下，想要投入到另类资产的门槛变得非常高。因此，我们对目前的投资组合配置感到相当满意，并认为无论未来市场如何变化，我们都具备充足的灵活性。
Wesley Collin Carmichael
Got it. Understood. And maybe my follow-up, just to come back to property and Rob, you talked about larger share and layered property being more competitive, but when you kind of look at the market today, obviously, there's a little bit more rate pressure there in property, but any color you can share on your view of rate adequacy of the market at this point?
明白了。我的追问是关于财产险的，Rob，你提到大额共保和分层财产险竞争加剧。现在市场上的费率确实面临一定下行压力，你能否分享一下你目前对财产险市场费率充足性的看法？
William Robert Berkley
I think, generally speaking, it really took off to the moon. And I think it's still in a good place, and we're happy to write it, but we are being forced to be very, very selective and careful. And I think it's not just about where it is today, it's also where you see it going tomorrow. And our colleagues are yes writing business today, but they're also trying to position the portfolio in anticipation of what tomorrow's conditions will be.
总体而言，过去一段时间的费率涨势确实非常强劲。目前的定价依然处于不错的水平，我们乐于承保，但我们也被迫必须非常谨慎和选择性地承保。我认为问题不仅仅在于今天的定价，更在于你对明天市场走势的预判。我们的同事们虽然现在还在承保新业务，但他们也在为未来的市场环境提前做组合上的布局。
So yes, I think the larger accounts, the shared and layered accounts, you're seeing more competition there. You're seeing a bit more of a feeding frenzy. By and large, we're still happy with the pricing, but that will not be indefinite. And we have no problem when we don't think that the rate is adequate to walk away. And we will be there when the opportunity presents itself again as we have been in the past.
是的，目前在大额账户、共保和分层账户方面，竞争确实在加剧，有点“抢食”的感觉。总体上我们对当前的定价还算满意，但我们知道这种状态不会无限持续下去。如果我们认为定价不够合理，我们完全可以选择退出；而一旦机会重新出现，我们也会像以往一样及时回归。
I should add those comments around market conditions, again, are very much focused on the commercial lines marketplace and the private client stuff. We continue to be pleased with, by and large, the opportunities before us.
我还想补充一点，这些关于市场状况的评论，主要是针对商业险市场和私人客户业务的。总体而言，我们对当前面前的机会仍感到满意。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Ryan Tunis with \[Cantor Fitzgerald].
下一位提问者是来自\[Cantor Fitzgerald]的Ryan Tunis。
Unidentified Analyst
I guess just keeping it on the property discussion, Rob, is kind of a broad question, but why are we still seeing better growth in the property lines and the other liability given your assessment of things?
继续聊财产险的话题，Rob，这可能是个比较宽泛的问题，但考虑到你之前的评估，为什么我们仍然看到财产险的增长好于其他责任险？
William Robert Berkley
I think a lot of the property growth is really coming from -- well, a, as I said a moment ago, we still think that there's opportunity there. So just because rates are down doesn't mean you don't want to write the business. I think the other piece that is worth noting is our private client business that I referred to before or said differently, our net worth personal lines business, and that is a contributor there as well.
我认为财产险增长主要来自几个方面。首先，正如我刚才提到的，我们认为这个领域仍有机会。费率下调并不意味着你就不愿意承保这类业务。另一个值得注意的因素是我们的私人客户业务，换句话说，我们的高净值个人险业务，这部分对增长也有明显贡献。
Unidentified Analyst
Got it. And then just, I guess, a little -- maybe more detailed one, maybe for Rich, but the corporate costs or the -- I don't know what you guys call them other costs and expenses, that ticked up this quarter. Are we in a new type of run rate there? Or were there some new launches? Or just curious what's going on with that.
明白了。接下来一个更具体的问题，可能是给Rich的。本季度你们的公司成本或者说“其他费用”有所上升。请问这是进入了新的运行基准吗？还是说你们有新的项目启动？能否解释一下这个变动的原因？
Richard Mark Baio
Yes. It's up really, Ryan, for a couple of reasons. One is with regards to the special dividend that we paid in the second quarter. As it relates to the dividend, it comes through on vested mandatorily deferred RSUs. So effectively, it characterizes compensation. And so that is a meaningful contributor in the current quarter. So that would obviously move around depending on future timing of special dividends or not.
是的，Ryan，成本上升主要有几个原因。第一是我们在第二季度支付了特别股息。根据相关规则，这部分股息需要计入已经归属的强制递延限制性股票（RSUs），因此它在账面上体现为薪酬成本，这对本季度的成本上升构成了重要影响。未来是否再次出现类似变动，将取决于是否还有特别股息的发放。
And then the second is you might have seen that we had announced a few quarters ago, 2 new operations, our embedded solutions and our India branch, similar to what we've done in the past, those expenses when they're in the incubation stage are reflected in our corporate expenses. And then when they get to some relative size in terms of generation of premium, we'll move that out of corporate expense on a prospective basis, and that would be reflected in our underwriting results.
第二个原因是，你可能记得我们几个季度前宣布了两个新业务项目，一个是嵌入式解决方案，一个是印度分支机构。按照我们以往的做法，在孵化阶段，这些项目的支出会计入公司整体费用。等到它们未来在保费收入上达到一定规模后，我们会将这部分支出从公司费用中转出，并在承保结果中进行体现。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Josh Shanker with Bank of America.
下一位提问者是来自美国银行的Josh Shanker。
Joshua David Shanker
So Rob, in your prepared remarks, it was almost like a throwaway. The last thing you mentioned was being really just pleased with the direction of trend in casualty reinsurance markets. And from my perspective, a lot of cash reinsurance is just quota share that the underlying risk sets the pricing and then you have some question about what's going to be the \[seeding] commission. But obviously, there's so well in some facultative and other types of business that obviously have a set price. Can you go a little into what you meant about being disappointed in the trends on the cash reinsurance direction?
Rob，在你刚才的发言中，最后提到你对责任再保险市场的走势感到满意，听起来几乎像是顺带提了一句。但在我看来，很多责任再保险只是分保合约，底层风险决定了定价，然后再谈分出佣金的水平。当然，也有一些临分或其他类型业务是有固定价格的。你能否详细解释一下你说对责任再保市场走势“感到失望”的含义？
William Robert Berkley
Yes, absolutely, Josh. Thanks for flagging that. So long story short, and I should have been more specific about it, the thorn in the side is primarily the seeding commissions where we just think that the reinsurance marketplace when we're playing the assumed game, should be looking for better terms. Obviously, we have a different view when we're seeding the business, but that is what I was referring to.
当然可以，Josh，谢谢你提出这个问题。简单来说，我本来应该更明确一点，我们感到不满的地方主要是在分出佣金方面。我们认为，在我们作为承保方（即接受再保）参与市场时，再保险市场应该争取更优的条件。当然，当我们是分出方时，我们的立场会有所不同，但我说的正是这个意思。
In addition to that, just less consequential as far as percent of the marketplace or for that matter, percent of our portfolio, we found that the \[indiscernible] market is one where we would have hoped to have seen a bit more discipline at this stage. By the way, mapping back to some of the other comments, particularly around the commercial auto space.
另外，虽然这部分在整个市场或者我们自家组合中的占比不大，但我们发现\[indiscernible]市场在目前阶段还缺乏我们希望看到的那种定价纪律。顺便提一句，这也与我们之前在商用车险领域的一些评论相呼应。
Joshua David Shanker
And on the seeding commissions that you're talking about — the seeding commissions are too low in your primary book when you're trying to seed or they're too high in the reinsurance \[indiscernible].
你提到的分出佣金，是指你们在原保险业务中作为分出方给的佣金太低，还是你们在再保险业务中作为承保方拿到的佣金太高？
William Robert Berkley
The seeding commissions are too low when we're assuming the business, and I'm saying from a self-serving perspective, we'd like them to be lower when we're seeding the business or an insurer.
我们作为再保接受方时，分出佣金太低了——当然这是从我们自身利益的角度来说。相反，当我们作为分出方（原保险公司）时，我们当然是希望佣金越低越好。
Joshua David Shanker
Yes. Okay. Does that make sense.
好的，我明白了。
William Robert Berkley
And then we would like our cake and to get it too, Josh.
我们当然是想“既吃蛋糕又留蛋糕”，Josh。
Joshua David Shanker
Yes, I get it. And then trying to -- if I go back 3 years ago when the 10-year was sub-2%. And now we're at like one where it's trying to get about 5%. And there may be some \[indiscernible] about where prices are in various markets. But I assume in an efficient market, the price of yield on investments should have some impact on the underwriters' ability to make money on the underwriting. When we say we don't like the direction of pricing, is pricing much worse because it's definitely for the market and certainly you as well. You're making a whole lot more money on the investment income. Is it reflective of just a different investment paradigm?
我明白了。回顾三年前，10年期国债收益率还不到2%，而现在几乎到5%了。虽然各个市场的定价可能存在一些杂音或不一致，但我理解在一个有效市场中，投资收益率的变化应该会对承保人赚取承保利润的能力产生影响。那么当我们说“不喜欢当前的定价趋势”时，是不是意味着现在的定价确实更差了？毕竟整个市场，包括你们自己，在投资收益方面现在都赚得多了。这是否反映出一个不同的投资环境或范式？
William Robert Berkley
So Josh, I very much appreciate the point that have -- and clearly, there is an economic model here and there is a relationship between investment income and underwriting profit and how it all comes together to deliver an outcome. That having been said, let's understand that perhaps the most competitive part of the market is in some of the shorter tail lines, i.e., property, where investment income is making the most modest contribution. So do I think that there is an impact? Yes. Do I think that, that is going to take us fast to the world of cash flow underwriting? No, sir, I do not.
Josh，我非常认同你的观点。显然，这里确实存在一个经济模型——投资收益与承保利润之间存在联系，两者共同决定最终的经营结果。话虽如此，我们也要意识到，市场上竞争最激烈的部分往往是短尾业务，例如财产险，而这些险种的投资收益贡献其实是最有限的。所以我认为投资收益确实有一定影响，但我并不认为这会迅速把我们带回“现金流承保”（即靠投资收益弥补承保亏损）的时代。绝对不会。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Brian Meredith with UBS.
下一位提问者是来自瑞银的Brian Meredith。
Brian Robert Meredith
So Rob, I wondered if you could talk a little bit about what the competitive dynamics are like right now in the private client business. Are there more opportunities there because maybe some players are pulling back? Or are we seeing any more competition in that marketplace?
Rob，我想请你谈谈目前私人客户业务的竞争态势。是否因为有些参与者正在收缩，所以出现了更多机会？还是说我们在这个市场上看到了更多竞争者？
William Robert Berkley
I think that certainly, there are some -- the obvious names participating in the space. I think each organization or a competitor has their own approach to the business. I think there are some that are primarily riding the coattails of a brand that they have. And I think there are others like ourselves that are really through the expertise of people and our team bringing value that's very visible to both distribution and insured. So when the day is all done, why are we getting the traction we are because we certainly are not the cheapest, but I would argue we're the best value.
我认为目前确实有一些耳熟能详的公司在这个领域活跃。每家公司、每个竞争者都有自己的经营方式。有些公司主要靠着自身品牌的光环延续业务，而像我们这样的公司，则是凭借团队的专业能力和人才优势，真正为渠道和被保险人创造了可见的价值。归根到底，我们之所以能获得市场的青睐，尽管我们肯定不是最便宜的，但我认为我们是性价比最高的。
Brian Robert Meredith
Makes sense. And then second question, just curious, the underlying combined ratio mentioned in the reinsurance, it looked like it's kind of elevated relative to where it's been the last couple of years. Is there anything unusual going on in the quarter — catch up or something that happened?
说得通。我的第二个问题是关于再保险的基础综合赔付率。我注意到这个比率相比过去几年有些上升。这季度有没有什么特殊事项，比如补提或一次性事件？
William Robert Berkley
Not particular. I think it's really 2 things, just tying in to the comments earlier, partly, it ties in with my \[indiscernible] about seeding commissions and also ties in with the comments around property rates and where they are. And the fact is the reinsurance market is not charging as much for property or for that matter, property cat, in particular, today as it did yesterday. So on both of those fronts, when we think about the changes, our colleagues are reacting to that and what we believe is a very thoughtful manner.
没有特别的异常。我认为主要有两个原因，前面其实已经提到过：一方面和我早前提到的分出佣金有关；另一方面则是关于财产险，尤其是巨灾险的定价问题。事实上，再保险市场如今在财产险和财产巨灾险方面的定价水平，低于过去。因此，在这两个方面的变化下，我们的同事们正在以一种非常审慎、理性的方式进行应对。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Meyer Shields with KBW.
下一位提问者是来自KBW的Meyer Shields。
Meyer Shields
Two, I think, quick questions. First of all, on your clients, are you seeing increasing demand for higher limits on the various casualty line policies?
我有两个简短的问题。首先，从你们的客户来看，他们是否在责任险产品上对更高的保额有越来越多的需求？
William Robert Berkley
Are we seeing increasing demand from our clients? I think that ultimate -- are we talking about larger or smaller accounts, just to make sure I'm following there, sorry.
我们的客户对更高保额的需求是否在增加？我想确认一下，你是指大客户还是小客户？
Meyer Shields
I was thinking of the smaller ones.
我是指小型客户。
William Robert Berkley
You were thinking of the smaller ones. Not consequentially. They are still looking to buy the typical primary and oftentimes, if they're looking to buy the same umbrella. So said differently, I'm not sure that the insureds or for that matter, their distribution, is directing them to think about their exposure in a materially different manner than they did yesterday in spite of social inflation.
你说的是小客户，那在这方面并没有出现显著变化。他们仍然倾向于购买传统的主险保障，有时也会继续买同样的超额险。换句话说，尽管存在社会通胀，我并不认为被保险人，或者说他们的经纪渠道，有在引导他们用一种与过去明显不同的方式来重新评估自身的风险暴露。
It's just not something that the smaller accounts are thinking about as much as the larger accounts are. I think for -- given the rate increases that have come about in response to social inflation amongst other things, I think you have a lot of insurers out there trying to think about not just what do they need, but also what can they afford? And I know you're talking about this sort of main street casualty, but I would suggest to you that, that is perhaps particularly visible in the commercial auto space where a product line where you're seeing perhaps or arguably the greatest level of social inflation, consequently, significant rate need being pushed and more probably to come, and you have insurers sitting there saying, I don't know if I can afford this. I don't know how I make my economic model work.
小型客户在这方面的考虑确实不如大型客户那么多。考虑到包括社会通胀在内带来的费率上涨，很多客户不仅在思考他们需要什么保障，也在考虑他们负担得起什么保障。我知道你是在说main street类型的责任险业务，但我认为这个现象在商用车险领域尤为明显，这是一个社会通胀最严重的险种之一。因此，该领域的费率提升压力最大，未来还可能进一步上升。你会看到很多投保人坐在那里想：“我负担得起吗？我该怎么让我的经济模型成立？”
And sometimes, you have insurers that are sitting there saying, I'll buy the Primary, but the Excess that I used to buy, maybe I'll buy less or maybe I'll have to fix self-insure, which sadly is a big rolling of the dice.
有时你会看到一些客户说：“我还是买主险，但原本买的超额险，可能要少买一点，或者干脆自己承担。”但遗憾的是，这其实是在豪赌。
Meyer Shields
Okay. Yes, that's very helpful. I just wanted to get a sense of that. Second question, you talked about the loss cost increase that was approved in California. When you look at California workers' compensation market, is that a good proxy or a leading indicator for the rest of the country?
好的，非常有帮助，我只是想了解一下整体趋势。第二个问题是，你提到加州已经批准了工伤险的损失成本上调。那么从你的角度看，加州的工伤险市场是否可以作为全美其他地区的有效参照或领先指标？
William Robert Berkley
Historically, if you look back over cycles, California has been a laggard as opposed to a leader. As we've suggested, I think we're probably a while now. Our view was that California was out in front as far as a firming market. Do I think it is a perfect proxy for the rest of the country? No, sir, I don't.
从历史周期来看，加州通常是一个“落后者”，而不是“引领者”。不过正如我们最近一段时间所指出的，我们认为这一次加州在市场趋紧的过程中是走在前面的。但我是否认为它可以作为全美其他地区的完美参照？不，我不这么认为。
I think California is definitely a unique animal. That having been said, I would offer the observation that if you've got a product line's rate low enough eventually, it ends badly.
我认为加州绝对是一个特殊的存在。话虽如此，我想强调一个普遍规律：如果某个险种的定价长期过低，最终结果往往不会好。
In addition to that, as some colleagues were flagging earlier, and I think we all have an appreciation for, is that medical trend is not working in the workers' comp market's favor. And I think also, as we've discussed in our opinion, there's a pinch point or it's been artificially held back or suppressed because of how it prices off of Medicare, I believe it is, in many states.
此外，正如之前有些同事提到的，我相信大家也都意识到，目前的医疗趋势对工伤险市场并不有利。而且正如我们之前讨论过的，我们认为这个市场存在一个“瓶颈”或说是被人为压抑的现象——在很多州，工伤险的定价是参照Medicare（医保）的支付水平制定的。
So what do I think? I think that the California response is warranted and then some. And I don't think it's a perfect indicator for the rest of the country, but it is an indicator that ultimately, if you take enough rate out of it, eventually, it ends badly and response is required.
所以我的看法是，加州这次的反应是合理的，甚至还不够充分。我不认为它能作为全国市场的完美指标，但它确实说明了一个道理：如果长期压低费率，最终一定会出现问题，市场也终将被迫作出调整。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Andrew Andersen with Jefferies.
下一位提问者是来自Jefferies的Andrew Andersen。
Andrew E. Andersen
Maybe just on the D\&O market, can you remind us, do you guys focus more on the public or the private and I guess where I'm going with this is, does kind of a rebounding M\&A and IPO market provide some upside for premium growth here?
关于D\&O（董事与高管责任险）市场，能否提醒一下你们更专注于公开公司还是私营公司？我想问的是，如果并购和IPO市场出现反弹，是否能为这块业务带来保费增长的上行空间？
William Robert Berkley
So the answer is all of the above. And certainly, IPO activity would be well-received. And I guess all we need to do is get the SPAC market going again and then we can have a party.
我们的答案是：两者都有。IPO活动当然是非常受欢迎的。如果SPAC市场也能重新活跃起来，那我们就真的可以开派对了。
Andrew E. Andersen
Fair enough. Okay. And then short tail lines within insurance, I heard your comments on the high net worth homeowners, but would be interested because there's a few other lines in there kind of what you're seeing within A\&H or Inland Marine.
明白了。那再问一个关于保险业务中短尾险种的问题。我听到了你对高净值房主险的评论，但我也对其他几个短尾险种感兴趣，比如意健险（A\&H）或内陆运输险（Inland Marine），你们目前在这些领域观察到的情况如何？
William Robert Berkley
From our perspective, A\&H continues to be an attractive part of our business. We participate in that marketplace in a couple of different ways, and I don't want to bore everyone on the call with it. But if you have interest, we're happy to follow up offline. As far as the inland marine piece, by and large, that tends to run semi— I wouldn't say in perfect lockstep, but is on a similar course to the broader property market.
从我们的角度来看，A\&H仍然是我们业务中很有吸引力的一部分。我们通过几种不同的方式参与这个市场，这里就不在电话会上详细讲了，以免冗长。如果你有兴趣，我们很乐意会后再进一步交流。至于内陆运输险，大体上它的表现与整体财产险市场趋同——虽然不能说是完全同步，但整体趋势是相近的。
Operator
And our next question comes from the line of Jamie Inglis with Philo Smith.
下一位提问者是来自Philo Smith的Jamie Inglis。
James E. Inglis
Bob, I was curious about your thoughts about risk-adjusted return. You mentioned it a couple of times, you always do. But the question is, how often and when and how do you change your view about risk as -- by line. And therefore, how does that affect the return? You know what I mean — is it a monthly, daily, annual thing because the world is changing fairly rapidly today. And therefore, I would assume that the underlying risks are changing as well.
Bob，我很好奇你对风险调整后回报（risk-adjusted return）的看法。你刚才提到过几次，其实你一直都强调这个概念。但我想问的是，你们在评估各个险种的风险时，会以怎样的频率来更新你们的观点？这又如何影响你们对回报的判断？换句话说，这是按月、按日还是按年进行的？毕竟现在世界变化得很快，我想这也意味着底层风险在不断变化。
William Robert Berkley
The way I would articulate it, and then others on my end of the phone might have a view because this is -- well, Rich may have a thought, but -- my boss might have a thought as well because this is very much a philosophical thing that goes back to day 1 when we got two sticks together to make fire. But long story short is that we are very preoccupied with this and colleagues throughout the organization are talking about it daily. We have a fair amount of visibility every 30 days, and we have a painfully granular discussion about it by business, by product line every 90 days. Now just because we have the formality of monthly and quarterly, that in no way, shape or form inhibits the discussion. And if appropriate, the taking action between those mile markers. Did you want to add to that?
我这样说吧，当然电话这端其他人可能也有看法，比如Rich，甚至我老板也可能有想法，因为这个问题其实已经上升到哲学层面——可以追溯到我们用两根木棒取火的那一天（笑）。但简单来说，我们对风险调整后回报极为关注，公司内部几乎每天都在讨论这个问题。我们每30天会获得相当透明的数据视图，每90天会按业务线、按产品线进行非常细致的深入讨论。当然，这种每月和每季度的“正式周期”并不会限制我们之间的交流或实际行动。如果有必要，我们会在这两个时间节点之间采取行动。你还想补充什么吗？
William Robert Berkley
I would only have one case that goes in a way you never imagined could make you change your mind about a line of business. It's a continuous process for watching how things are going and seeing, is there something you didn't expect. Is there something that causes you to reevaluate? Otherwise, it's a continuous process of examining the risks you see in the courtroom in the underwriting, whatever, but there was a bad malpractice case in Philadelphia that was decided last week — an obstetrician had a terribly bad decision.
我只想再举一个例子，有时候只需要一个你完全想不到的案例，就足以让你对某个业务板块的判断发生转变。整个过程是持续的——我们不断观察形势的变化，寻找是否出现了某些意料之外的事件，是否有需要重新评估的信号。我们会持续审视承保、司法判例等相关风险。比如，上周在费城就发生了一起严重的医疗事故诉讼案，产科医生的判决结果非常糟糕。
Well, that makes you think about what happens about malpractice and obstetrics and all those things. Just — it brings it to your attention. So I think it's a continuous process of staying on top of what's happening and how our decision is going. And you're looking at those things on a continuous basis.
这类事件会迫使你重新思考医疗事故险、产科风险等相关领域。这些案例会直接唤起你的警觉。所以我认为，这本质上是一个持续性的过程，要求我们时刻掌握市场动态并检视自身的判断。我们对这些事情的关注从未间断。
William Robert Berkley
Rich, anything you want to add?
Rich，你有没有什么想补充的？
Richard Mark Baio
No, I'm okay.
没有，我没什么要补充的。
William Robert Berkley
Abby, anybody else out there?
Abby，或者其他人有要补充的吗？
Operator
No. That will conclude our question-and-answer session. So I would like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Rob Berkley for closing remarks.
好的。问答环节到此结束。接下来我们将会议交还给Rob Berkley先生作结语。
William Robert Berkley
Ami, thanks for the help and hosting us. And again, thank you to all the participants. I think that it was a very solid quarter, and again, sort of the story continuing to unfold as promised. I think it's a reminder of the stability of the earnings of the business, whether it's a quarter like 1 or quarter like 2, we're able to continually and consistently create value for shareholders.
Ami，谢谢你的协助和主持。再次感谢所有参会者。我认为这是一个非常扎实的季度，也如我们一直所说，公司发展的故事正在持续兑现。这再次说明我们的盈利能力具有稳定性——无论是第一季度还是第二季度，我们都能够持续稳定地为股东创造价值。
Beyond that, I think there's a fair amount of visibility at this stage, not just for the balance of this year, but beyond as to it is likely that this organization will continue for the foreseeable to be able to generate high teens, low 20s returns and we are very optimistic and confident in our ability to achieve that.
此外，我认为目前不仅对今年剩余时间有较高的可见度，甚至更远的未来也如此。我们有理由相信，在可预见的未来，公司仍有能力实现高十几到二十出头百分比的投资回报。我们对此充满信心，也非常乐观。
So again, our thanks to all for tuning in, and we will look forward to catching up with you in about 90 days. Thank you very much. Good night.
再次感谢大家的参与，我们期待大约90天后再与各位相会。非常感谢，晚安。
Operator
And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call, and we thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.
各位女士们、先生们，本次电话会议到此结束，感谢大家的参与。您现在可以挂断电话了。