2000-01-24 Steve Jobs.Apple's One-Dollar-a-Year Man
(FORTUNE Magazine) – Now that Steve Jobs has showed his hand on Apple's Internet and system software strategies and dropped the "interim" from his title, other questions loom. He's always denied it, but isn't it true that his old company, Next, did wind up taking over Apple? Will there ever be an encore to the 15-year-old Macintosh? Short of that, does Apple have any plans to jump into the "Internet appliance" fray? Will Apple ever build computers for business people again? And what, pray tell, does Steve think of all these young Internet zillionaires? Let's ask.
（《财富》杂志）——现在史蒂夫·乔布斯已经公开了苹果的互联网和系统软件战略，并去掉了“临时”这个头衔，其他问题也随之而来。他一直否认，但难道不是真的，他的老公司 NeXT 最终接管了苹果吗？15 年前的麦金塔会有续集吗？除此之外，苹果是否有计划进入“互联网设备”的竞争？苹果会再次为商界人士制造电脑吗？那么，史蒂夫对这些年轻的互联网亿万富翁有什么看法呢？让我们来问问。
1.Practically every technology that your old company, Next, possessed when Apple acquired it in 1997 is now being used by Apple in some strategic way. This must seem like sweet vindication.
几乎你旧公司NeXT在1997年被苹果收购时所拥有的每一项技术，现在都以某种战略方式被苹果使用。这一定让你感到甜蜜的复仇。
The thing about Next was that we produced something that was truly brilliant for an audience that our heart really wasn't into selling to--namely, the enterprise.
NeXT的事情在于，我们为一个我们并不真正想要销售的受众——即企业——生产了真正出色的产品。
I suppose if you were writing a book, this would be a great plot line, because the whole thing circles back. All of a sudden, it's coming out for the market that we would've liked to create it for in the first place--i.e., consumers. So it's a good ending.
我想如果你在写一本书，这将是一个很好的情节，因为整个事情又回到了起点。突然间，它要面向我们一开始就想为之创造的市场——也就是说，消费者。所以这是一个好的结局。
2.So now you're at the beginning of something else. How did Apple's Internet services come together? It seems like it happened quickly.
所以现在你处于另一个开始。苹果的互联网服务是如何形成的？看起来这一切发生得很快。
We entered 1999 with a feeling of having had tremendous success in 1998, what with the introduction of the iMac and all. And I was getting suggestions from people inside and outside Apple that we needed to think about starting an ISP [Internet service provider] business, just like Compaq and Gateway and Dell.
我们在 1999 年开始时感到 1998 年取得了巨大的成功，毕竟推出了 iMac。我收到了来自苹果内部和外部的人们的建议，认为我们需要考虑开始一家ISP（互联网服务提供商）业务，就像康柏、Gateway和戴尔一样。
I was dragging my feet because it just didn't feel right. The more I thought about it, the more I saw that you can separate services from Internet access, and use those unique services to create incredible competitive differentiation, regardless of who provides the access. We didn't have to be an access provider ourselves to get most of the benefits.
我拖延不前，因为这感觉不对。我越想越觉得，服务与互联网接入是可以分开的，并且可以利用这些独特的服务创造令人难以置信的竞争差异，而不管谁提供接入。我们不必自己成为接入提供商就能获得大部分好处。
Remember, we have a lot of market power in that we own an extremely popular Internet-access device. If you look at most ISPs, their No. 1 expense by a mile is customer acquisition. Well, we're acquiring new customers all the time; one third of all iMac customers are first-time computer owners. We can help those hundreds of thousands of newbies--who also happen to have incredible demographics--find an ISP. So we've made Earthlink our exclusive ISP; we'll get paid a bounty and they'll get new customers.
请记住，我们拥有很大的市场影响力，因为我们拥有一种极受欢迎的互联网接入设备。如果你看看大多数互联网服务提供商，他们的第一大开支就是客户获取。我们一直在不断获取新客户；所有 iMac 客户中有三分之一是首次拥有电脑的用户。我们可以帮助那些拥有惊人用户特征的成千上万的新手找到互联网服务提供商。所以我们让Earthlink成为我们的独家ISP；我们将获得一笔奖励，他们也会得到新客户。
I'd say the big light bulb on services came on about nine months ago. The big light bulb being: "Wait a minute. We own a major operating system. Why don't we build some services that work uniquely with it to give us unfair competitive advantage?" Everything fell into place this fall. Our secret weapon to be able to build these services so quickly is OS X and the set of programmers' development tools that goes with it, WebObjects. We really do eat our own dog food around here.
我想说，关于服务的重大启示大约是在九个月前出现的。这个重大启示是：“等一下。我们拥有一个主要的操作系统。为什么不构建一些与之独特配合的服务，以赋予我们不公平的竞争优势呢？”这一切在这个秋天都变得明朗。我们能够如此快速地构建这些服务的秘密武器是OS X和与之相关的程序开发工具WebObjects。我们确实在这里实践我们自己的产品。
3.Given that you're emphasizing Mac OS X and iTools, and not even introducing new hardware at a time of year when you customarily do, should Apple's new slogan be something like "It's the software, stupid"?
鉴于你们强调Mac OS X和iTools，而在通常推出新硬件的季节却没有推出新产品，苹果的新口号是否应该是“软件才是关键，傻瓜”？
We're still heavily into the box. We love the box. We have amazing computers today, and amazing hardware in the pipeline. I still spend a lot of my time working on new computers, and it will always be a primal thing for Apple. But the user experience is what we care about most, and we're expanding that experience beyond the box by making better use of the Internet. The user experience now entails four things: the hardware, the operating system, the applications, and the Net. We want to do all four uniquely well for our customers.
我们仍然非常专注于盒子。我们热爱这个盒子。我们今天有出色的电脑，还有令人惊叹的硬件在开发中。我仍然花很多时间在新电脑的研发上，这将始终是苹果的核心。但用户体验是我们最关心的，我们正在通过更好地利用互联网来扩展这种体验。现在的用户体验包括四个方面：硬件、操作系统、应用程序和网络。我们希望为我们的客户在这四个方面都做到独特而出色。
4.You seem more focused than ever on the consumer market. Why do you think it holds so much promise?
您似乎比以往更加专注于消费市场。您认为它为什么如此有前景？
A lot of people can't get past the fact that we're not going after the enterprise market. But that's like saying, "How can the Gap be successful not making suits?" Well, we don't make wingtips here either.
很多人无法接受我们不追求企业市场的事实。但这就像说，“Gap 怎么能在不做西装的情况下成功？”好吧，我们在这里也不做正装鞋。
Then again, big companies are beginning to buy a lot from us simply because they like our jellybeans. If you want to have your employee up and on your intranet in seven minutes and if you want to have lower maintenance costs than you would running Windows, iMacs are great. But we make zero effort to sell to big companies.
不过，大公司开始从我们这里购买很多产品，因为他们喜欢我们的产品。如果你想在七分钟内让你的员工上线并在你的内部网中工作，并且如果你想要比运行 Windows 更低的维护成本，iMac 是很棒的。但我们对向大公司销售几乎没有任何努力。
We think that a lot more big businesses will eventually come back to us, because FORTUNE 500 companies use a lot of consumer products. If you want a minivan for your corporation, you don't have one custom made; you go to the Chrysler dealer and buy one. They make great minivans, even though they don't make them for Corporate America. Even so, a lot of big companies--including ours--buy them.
我们认为，更多的大型企业最终会回到我们这里，因为《财富》500 强公司使用大量消费品。如果你想为你的公司购买一辆厢式车，你不会定制一辆；你会去克莱斯勒经销商那里购买一辆。他们生产出色的厢式车，尽管他们并不是为美国企业生产的。即便如此，许多大公司——包括我们公司——还是会购买它们。
It's really hard to serve multiple masters--different sets of customers with completely different points of view, requirements, and ways of approaching computing. I think Microsoft is experiencing this.
为多个客户服务真的很难——不同的客户群体有着完全不同的观点、需求和计算方式。我认为微软正在经历这样的困境。
I've always believed that the biggest market for PCs is consumers. The Mac was originally intended to be a consumer PC. One of the big arguments I had with [former Apple CEO] John Sculley was that the Mac was designed to sell for $1,000. Yes, we overshot a little and it cost too much to make to sell for that, but even so, I thought it should have sold for between $1,500 and $1,799. John wanted to bump it up to $2,499. His vision was to keep on going all the way up and have Macs selling for $5,000 or $10,000. After I left, that's exactly what Apple did.
我一直相信，个人电脑最大的市场是消费者。Mac 最初是为了成为一款消费型个人电脑。与[前苹果首席执行官]约翰·斯卡利的一个重大争论是，Mac 的设计是为了以 1000 美元的价格出售。是的，我们确实超出了预期，生产成本太高，无法以这个价格出售，但即便如此，我认为它应该以 1500 到 1799 美元之间的价格出售。约翰想把价格提高到 2499 美元。他的愿景是继续往上走，让 Mac 的售价达到 5000 美元或 10000 美元。在我离开后，苹果确实这样做了。
By some measures, it worked. Apple made a fortune, although not as much as we're making today. What they didn't understand was that they had thrown away one of the greatest chances they'd ever get to win market share. They went for $1 billion in extra profits over four or five years when what they really should have done was tell everybody they would make 'normal' profits and go for market share.
从某些方面来看，这是成功的。苹果赚了很多钱，尽管没有我们今天赚得多。他们没有意识到，他们放弃了一个赢得市场份额的巨大机会。他们追求在四五年内额外获得 10 亿美元的利润，而他们真正应该做的是告诉大家他们会获得“正常”的利润，并争取市场份额。
5.Just about every other computer maker is exploring new digital devices that can tap into the Internet, but you're still focused on personal computers. Why?
几乎所有其他电脑制造商都在探索可以连接互联网的新数字设备，但你们仍然专注于个人电脑。为什么？
Everyone's talking about "information appliances" and other "post-PC" devices. So far, there have only been two or three that have succeeded--the Palm and game machines like the Sony PlayStation and possibly the cell phone. None of the others have succeeded. Why is that?
每个人都在谈论“信息家电”和其他“后 PC”设备。到目前为止，只有两三种成功了——Palm 和像索尼 PlayStation 这样的游戏机，以及可能的手机。其他的都没有成功。为什么会这样呢？
Well, if you look at the Internet, you can see it is absolutely optimized for PCs. All the pages are laid out to be viewed on a PC. That's one reason WebTV--a device that displays Websites on a normal TV--has failed. Beyond that, the Web is rich with things like Java and QuickTime and RealPlayer and MP3 sound files. By the time you build a device that [can handle those things], you've got something that is like a PC without the disk drives and is only about $50 cheaper than a PC or an iMac.
好吧，如果你看看互联网，你会发现它绝对是为个人电脑优化的。所有页面的布局都是为了在个人电脑上查看。这就是 WebTV——一种在普通电视上显示网站的设备——失败的原因之一。除此之外，网络上充满了 Java、QuickTime、RealPlayer 和 MP3 音频文件等内容。当你制造出一种能够处理这些内容的设备时，你得到的东西就像是一台没有磁盘驱动器的个人电脑，价格仅比个人电脑或 iMac 便宜大约 50 美元。
Then you ask your user if they care about storing anything. Do you care about storing MP3 files, or would you rather wait a few minutes to download them every time you want to hear them? Do you care about storing the photos you take with your digital camera? The answer is almost always yes. It's not that expensive to add a disk drive to let you do these things, and once you do, you're back to a PC. The only way to make it any cheaper is to start giving up things.
然后你问你的用户是否在乎存储任何东西。你在乎存储 MP3 文件吗，还是宁愿每次想听的时候等几分钟下载它们？你在乎存储你用数码相机拍的照片吗？答案几乎总是肯定的。增加一个磁盘驱动器来让你做这些事情并不那么昂贵，一旦你这样做了，你就回到了个人电脑。让它变得更便宜的唯一方法就是开始放弃一些东西。
Apple is very much weighted toward the consumer-electronics space right now, because we're selling to a lot of consumers and we want to help them get more benefits from hooking up various things to computers and to each other. The perfect example is the digital camcorder and the iMac. It's amazing what you can do when you plug these things together--we call it iMovies.
苹果目前非常偏向于消费电子领域，因为我们正在向大量消费者销售产品，并希望帮助他们从将各种设备连接到计算机和彼此之间获得更多好处。完美的例子就是数码摄像机和 iMac。当你将这些设备连接在一起时，真是令人惊叹——我们称之为 iMovies。
I won't lie, we're working on other digital devices like everybody else. But I'm not convinced that customers won't pay a little bit more for a device that's not going to be obsolete in a year and that's going to give them the full Internet experience, not an "Internet Jr." experience.
我不会撒谎，我们正在像其他人一样开发其他数字设备。但我不相信顾客会不愿意多花一点钱买一个不会在一年内过时并能提供完整互联网体验，而不是“互联网初级版”体验的设备。
6.What has always distinguished the products of the companies you've led is the design aesthetic. Is your obsession with design an inborn instinct or what?
一直以来，您所领导公司的产品所独特之处在于设计美学。您对设计的痴迷是与生俱来的本能，还是其他原因？
We don't have good language to talk about this kind of thing. In most people's vocabularies, design means veneer. It's interior decorating. It's the fabric of the curtains and the sofa. But to me, nothing could be further from the meaning of design. Design is the fundamental soul of a man-made creation that ends up expressing itself in successive outer layers of the product or service. The iMac is not just the color or translucence or the shape of the shell. The essence of the iMac is to be the finest possible consumer computer in which each element plays together.
我们没有好的语言来谈论这种事情。在大多数人的词汇中，设计意味着表面装饰。它是室内装潢，是窗帘和沙发的面料。但对我来说，这与设计的真正含义相去甚远。设计是人造创作的基本灵魂，最终在产品或服务的外层中表现出来。iMac 不仅仅是外壳的颜色、透明度或形状。iMac 的本质是成为尽可能最好的消费电脑，其中每个元素都相互配合。
On our latest iMac, I was adamant that we get rid of the fan, because it is much more pleasant to work on a computer that doesn't drone all the time. That was not just "Steve's decision" to pull out the fan; it required an enormous engineering effort to figure out how to manage power better and do a better job of thermal conduction through the machine. That is the furthest thing from veneer. It was at the core of the product the day we started.
在我们最新的 iMac 上，我坚决要求去掉风扇，因为在没有风扇嗡嗡声的电脑上工作要愉快得多。这不仅仅是“史蒂夫的决定”要去掉风扇；这需要巨大的工程努力来弄清楚如何更好地管理电源，并在机器内部更好地进行热传导。这与表面装饰相去甚远。它是我们开始时产品的核心。
This is what customers pay us for--to sweat all these details so it's easy and pleasant for them to use our computers. We're supposed to be really good at this. That doesn't mean we don't listen to customers, but it's hard for them to tell you what they want when they've never seen anything remotely like it. Take desktop video editing. I never got one request from someone who wanted to edit movies on his computer. Yet now that people see it, they say, "Oh my God, that's great!"
这就是客户支付我们费用的原因——为了处理所有这些细节，让他们使用我们的电脑变得简单愉快。我们应该在这方面非常出色。这并不意味着我们不倾听客户的意见，但当客户从未见过类似的东西时，他们很难告诉你他们想要什么。以桌面视频编辑为例。我从来没有收到过有人想在电脑上编辑电影的请求。然而，现在人们看到它时，他们会说：“天哪，这太棒了！”
I don't see enough innovation like that in our industry. My position coming back to Apple was that our industry was in a coma. It reminded me of Detroit in the '70s, when American cars were boats on wheels. That's why we have a really good chance to be a serious player again.
我在我们的行业中没有看到足够的创新。我回到苹果时的立场是，我们的行业处于昏迷状态。这让我想起了 70 年代的底特律，当时美国汽车就像轮子上的船。这就是为什么我们有很好的机会再次成为一个重要的参与者。
7.You and Apple have been responsible for popularizing the personal computer. What will be the next big breakthrough?
你和苹果一直负责推广个人电脑。下一个重大突破将是什么？
People are always asking, "What will be the next Macintosh?" My answer still is "I don't know and I don't care." Everybody at Apple has been working really hard the last two and a half years to reinvent this company. We've made tremendous progress. My goal has been to get Apple healthy enough so that if we do figure out the next big thing, we can seize the moment. Getting a company healthy doesn't happen overnight. You have to rebuild some organizations, clean up others that don't make sense, and build up new engineering capabilities.
人们总是问：“下一个 Macintosh 会是什么？”我的回答仍然是：“我不知道，也不在乎。”在过去两年半的时间里，苹果的每个人都在努力工作，以重塑这家公司。我们取得了巨大的进展。我的目标是让苹果变得足够健康，这样如果我们找到了下一个重大事物，我们就能抓住机会。让一家公司变得健康不是一朝一夕的事情。你必须重建一些组织，清理一些没有意义的组织，并建立新的工程能力。
Another priority was to make Apple more entrepreneurial and startup-like. So we immediately reorganized, drastically narrowed the product line, and changed compensation for senior managers so they get a lot of stock but no cash bonuses. The upshot is that the place feels more like a young company.
另一个优先事项是让苹果变得更加具有创业精神和初创公司风格。因此，我们立即进行了重组，大幅缩减了产品线，并改变了高级管理人员的薪酬，使他们获得大量股票但没有现金奖金。结果是，这个地方感觉更像是一家年轻的公司。
We're trying to use the swiftness and creativity in a younger-style company, and yet bring to bear the tremendous resources of a company the size of Apple to do large projects that you could never handle at a startup. A startup could never do the new iMac. Literally 2,000 people worked on it. A startup could never do Mac OS X. It's not easy at a big company either, but Apple now has the management and systems in place to get things like that done. I can't emphasize how rare that is. That's what makes Sony and Disney so special.
我们试图利用年轻公司中的敏捷性和创造力，同时又利用像苹果这样的大公司的巨大资源来完成一些初创公司无法处理的大型项目。初创公司根本无法完成新的 iMac。实际上，有 2000 人参与了这个项目。初创公司也无法完成 Mac OS X。在大公司中做到这一点也并不容易，但苹果现在拥有管理和系统来完成这样的事情。我无法强调这有多么罕见。这就是索尼和迪士尼如此特别的原因。
Now when we see new things or opportunities, we can seize them. In fact, we have already seized a few, like desktop movies, wireless networking, and iTools. A creative period like this lasts only maybe a decade, but it can be a golden decade if we manage it properly.
现在，当我们看到新事物或机会时，我们可以抓住它们。事实上，我们已经抓住了一些，比如桌面电影、无线网络和 iTools。像这样的创造性时期可能只持续十年，但如果我们妥善管理，它可以是一个黄金十年。
8.You've finally done away with the word "interim" in your title. But you still only let Apple pay you $1 a year. Why don't you take any salary or stock yet?
你终于在你的头衔中去掉了“临时”这个词。但你仍然只让苹果每年支付你 1 美元。为什么你还不领取任何薪水或股票呢？
The board has made several incredibly generous offers. I have turned them all down for a few reasons. For the first year I did not want the shareholders and employees of Pixar to think their CEO was going on a camping trip over to Apple never to return. After two and a half years, I think that the management teams at Pixar and at Apple have demonstrated that we can handle this situation. That's why I dropped the "interim" from my title. I'm still called iCEO, though, because I think it's cool.
董事会提出了几项非常慷慨的报价。我出于几个原因拒绝了它们。在第一年，我不想让皮克斯的股东和员工认为他们的首席执行官去苹果公司露营再也不回来了。经过两年半的时间，我认为皮克斯和苹果的管理团队已经证明我们能够处理这种情况。这就是我从我的头衔中去掉“临时”的原因。不过，我仍然被称为 iCEO，因为我觉得这很酷。
Bottom line is, I didn't return to Apple to make a fortune. I've been very lucky in my life and already have one. When I was 25, my net worth was $100 million or so. I decided then that I wasn't going to let it ruin my life. There's no way you could ever spend it all, and I don't view wealth as something that validates my intelligence. I just wanted to see if we could work together to turn this thing around when the company was literally on the verge of bankruptcy. The decision to go without pay has served me well.
底线是，我回到苹果并不是为了发财。我在生活中非常幸运，已经拥有了一笔财富。当我 25 岁时，我的净资产大约是 1 亿美元。我当时决定不让它毁了我的生活。你根本不可能花完所有的钱，我也不把财富视为证明我智力的东西。我只是想看看我们能否合作扭转局面，当时公司几乎濒临破产。选择无薪工作对我来说是个明智的决定。
9.Do you ever look around and think that a younger generation is driving this industry now?
你有没有环顾四周，觉得现在是年轻一代在推动这个行业的发展？
I had dinner in Seattle at Bill Gates' house a couple of weeks ago. We were both remarking how at one time we were the youngest guys in this business, and now we're the graybeards.
几周前，我在西雅图比尔·盖茨的家里吃了晚餐。我们都在感慨曾经我们是这个行业里最年轻的人，而现在我们成了老前辈。
When I got started I was 20 or 21, and my role models were the semiconductor guys like Robert Noyce and Andy Grove of Intel, and of course Bill Hewlett and David Packard. They were out not so much to make money as to change the world and to build companies that could keep growing and changing. They left incredible legacies.
我开始的时候大约 20 或 21 岁，我的榜样是半导体行业的人，比如英特尔的罗伯特·诺伊斯和安迪·格罗夫，当然还有比尔·休利特和大卫·帕卡德。他们的目标并不是单纯赚钱，而是改变世界，建立能够不断成长和变化的公司。他们留下了令人难以置信的遗产。
It's hard to tell with these Internet startups if they're really interested in building companies or if they're just interested in the money. I can tell you, though: If they don't really want to build a company, they won't luck into it. That's because it's so hard that if you don't have a passion, you'll give up. There were times in the first two years when we could have given up and sold Apple, and it probably would've died.
很难判断这些互联网初创公司是否真的对建立公司感兴趣，还是只是对钱感兴趣。不过我可以告诉你：如果他们不是真的想建立一家公司，他们是不会侥幸成功的。这是因为这件事太难了，如果没有激情，你就会放弃。在头两年里，我们曾有过几次可以放弃并出售苹果的机会，那样它可能就会死掉。
But then, the rewarding thing isn't merely to start a company or to take it public. It's like when you're a parent. Although the birth experience is a miracle, what's truly rewarding is living with your child and helping him grow up.
但随之而来的回报不仅仅是创办一家公司或将其上市。这就像当你成为父母一样。尽管分娩的经历是一个奇迹，但真正的回报是和你的孩子一起生活，帮助他成长。
The problem with the Internet startup craze isn't that too many people are starting companies; it's that too many people aren't sticking with it. That's somewhat understandable, because there are many moments that are filled with despair and agony, when you have to fire people and cancel things and deal with very difficult situations. That's when you find out who you are and what your values are.
互联网创业热潮的问题不在于太多人在创办公司，而在于太多人没有坚持下去。这在某种程度上是可以理解的，因为有很多时刻充满了绝望和痛苦，当你不得不解雇员工、取消项目并处理非常困难的情况时。那时你会发现你是谁以及你的价值观是什么。
So when these people sell out, even though they get fabulously rich, they're gypping themselves out of one of the potentially most rewarding experiences of their unfolding lives. Without it, they may never know their values or how to keep their newfound wealth in perspective.
所以当这些人出卖自己时，尽管他们变得非常富有，但他们却剥夺了自己体验人生中最有可能带来回报的经历之一。没有这种经历，他们可能永远无法了解自己的价值观或如何看待新获得的财富。
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