2018-05-07 Satya Nadella.MSFT.Interview with CNBC
CNBC’s Jon Fortt sat down with Microsoft
CNBC 的乔恩·福特与微软坐下来交谈 CEO Satya Nadella in advance of the company’s annual Build conference.
首席执行官萨蒂亚·纳德拉在公司年度 Build 大会之前。
The tech company reported higher than expected third-quarter earnings last month with strong guidance for the upcoming fiscal year.
该科技公司上个月报告称，第三季度收益高于预期，并对即将到来的财政年度提供了强劲的指引。
Microsoft plans to continue driving revenue growth through its cloud services. Its Intelligent Cloud segment contains the Azure public cloud, which competes with Amazon Web Services.
微软计划通过其云服务继续推动收入增长。其智能云部门包括与亚马逊网络服务竞争的 Azure 公共云。
Nadella discussed the future of Microsoft and its cloud service, rivals Google and Amazon, artificial intelligence, and what to expect at this year’s Build.
纳德拉讨论了微软及其云服务的未来，竞争对手谷歌和亚马逊，人工智能，以及今年 Build 大会的预期。
Read the full transcript here.
在这里阅读完整的文字记录。
Jon Fortt: Great. I think it’s been seven years or so since we first sat down.
乔恩·福特：太好了。我想我们第一次坐下来已经有七年左右了。
Satya Nadella: That’s right. And I guess that was before I was CEO. That’s right.
萨蒂亚·纳德拉：是的。我想那是在我成为首席执行官之前。是的。
Fortt: Yes, before you were CEO. We go way back, you know.
福特：是的，在你成为首席执行官之前。我们的历史很久远，你知道的。
Nadella: That’s right. 纳德拉：没错。
Fortt: And you’re famous now.
福特：现在你很出名。
Nadella: What happened? 纳德拉：发生了什么？
Fortt: You wrote a book. I think I saw you in Better Homes and Gardens even. [EDITOR’S NOTE: Nadella appeared in Good Housekeeping, not Better Homes and Gardens.]
福特：你写了一本书。我觉得我甚至在《Better Homes and Gardens》杂志上看到过你。【编辑注：纳德拉出现在《Good Housekeeping》杂志上，而不是《Better Homes and Gardens》。】
Nadella: That’s right. 纳德拉：没错。
Fortt: I’ve never seen, that I can recall, an executive go from “Who’s he?” to now, “This guy knows what’s going on, and he is at the center of the zeitgeist,” quite the way I’ve seen you do it. Is it weird?
福特：我从未见过，至少我记得不曾见过，一个高管从“他是谁？”到现在“这家伙知道发生了什么，他处于时代精神的中心”，像我见到你这样的转变。这是不是很奇怪？
Nadella: If you say so. I don’t find any difference, but it’s been a fantastic ride. I think what’s been humbling for me is — I don’t get confused — this is all because of the platform I’ve been given, which is Microsoft and the work we do. It’s not me, but it’s the opportunity I’ve been given.
纳德拉：如果你这么说的话。我没有发现任何区别，但这是一次奇妙的旅程。我认为让我感到谦卑的是——我不会感到困惑——这一切都是因为我所拥有的平台，那就是微软和我们所做的工作。这不是因为我，而是因为我所获得的机会。
Fortt: At what point do you say, and I know this isn’t a turnaround, this is hitting refresh, and there’s still work to do — as you said in the book — but Microsoft’s stock is near all-time highs, in the mid 90s, recently. At what point can you say, “Yeah, we’ve got that part behind us. The turnaround, or the refresh, or whatever you want to call it, there’s still more to do, but yeah, good job, team. Now it’s time to take the next hill.”
福特：在什么时候你会说，我知道这不是一个扭转局面，而是在进行刷新，还有工作要做——就像你在书中所说的那样——但微软的股价近期接近历史高位，大约在 90 美元左右。在什么时候你可以说，“是的，我们已经度过了那一阶段。扭转局面，或者刷新，或者无论你想怎么称呼它，还有更多要做，但是，是的，团队干得不错。现在是时候去攻克下一个难关了。”
Nadella: I mean, I think that’s the fundamental posture that we have to have. And quite frankly, any company that needs to continue to renew itself needs to have. Because if you think about it, what’s going to happen next, and the day after, is what you have to anticipate. So what has happened in the past is just the past.
纳德拉：我的意思是，我认为这是我们必须采取的基本立场。坦率地说，任何需要继续自我更新的公司都需要这样做。因为如果你考虑一下，接下来会发生什么，以及之后的日子，就是你必须预料的。所以过去发生的事情只是过去。
跟Earnings Call里面看到完全一致，Nadella的基本立场是“忘记过去，活在当下，自我更新”。
Fortt: Is Phase One done? Can you kind of say, “Hey, I’ve been CEO for four-ish years now, and yeah, we got that part done, pretty good job.”
福特：第一阶段完成了吗？你能不能说，“嘿，我已经担任 CEO 大约四年了，是的，我们完成了那部分，做得相当不错。”
Nadella: Yeah I think to me it is very important to start with two things — a very clear sense of purpose and identity, and a clear understanding of how to express that sense of purpose and identity in a changing world. I feel like in the the last four and a half years, we were able to do a good job of that.
纳德拉：是的，我认为对我来说，从两个方面开始非常重要——一个非常明确的目标和身份感，以及如何在不断变化的世界中表达这种目标和身份感的清晰理解。我觉得在过去的四年半里，我们能够做得很好。
But I tell you, I only think of what are we going to do next. Because that sense of purpose will have to remain constant. And our culture that allows us to move forward has to remain constant. But there’s going to be a lot of churn about how the world’s going to change, and we will have to change with it and, in fact, ahead of it.
但我告诉你，我只考虑接下来我们要做什么。因为那种目的感必须保持不变。我们的文化允许我们前进的态度也必须保持不变。但世界将会发生很多变化，我们必须跟随变化，实际上要领先于变化。
活在当下，面对现实，做好当下可以做的事。
Fortt: Speaking of a sense of purpose, you said something interesting recently, you said, “That’s what I want my legacy to be, that anyone who joins our company is able to connect their personal passion, and use Microsoft as a platform to realize it.” What’s your personal passion?
福特：说到使命感，你最近说了一些有趣的话，你说，“这就是我希望留下的遗产，任何加入我们公司的人都能够连接他们的个人激情，并利用微软作为一个平台来实现它。”你的个人激情是什么？
Nadella: That’s a great question. In fact the way I got to this was I used to work for a gentleman by the name of Doug Burgum, who is actually the governor of North Dakota now. He had said this to me, I was probably in my mid-30s, he says, “Wow, we spend far too much time at work for it not to have meaning.”
纳德拉：这是一个很棒的问题。事实上，我之所以能够走到今天这一步，是因为我曾经为一位名叫道格·伯格姆（Doug Burgum）的绅士工作过，他现在实际上是北达科他州州长。他曾经对我说过，那时我大概三十多岁，“哇，我们在工作上花费的时间太多了，如果没有意义的话就太不值得了。”
And that’s when I said, “Why am I at Microsoft? What is it that gives me the energy at Microsoft, day in and day after?” And it is mostly because of the platform it creates for me, to be able to connect with what I’m passionate about. Take accessibility. It’s something that I personally am super passionate about. But Microsoft’s given me an amazing opportunity to be able to take that passion, connect it to real work and see its impact in the world. And I think that’s true for 100,000 people here. It’s the local communities, the countries we work in, the sectors of the economy, education, health. That broad spectrum impact that Microsoft has is the opportunity that it creates for every one of our employees. But what defines me, I think, is curiosity, love of ideas and the ability to translate that into impact.
那时我说，“我为什么在微软？是什么让我在微软拥有动力，日复一日？” 这主要是因为微软为我创造了一个平台，让我能够与自己热爱的事物联系在一起。 比如可访问性。 这是我个人非常热衷的事情。 但微软给了我一个绝佳的机会，让我能够将这种激情与实际工作联系起来，并看到它在世界上的影响。 我认为这对这里的 10 万人都是如此。 这是我们工作的当地社区，国家，经济部门，教育，健康。 微软产生的广泛影响是它为我们每一位员工创造的机会。 但我认为定义我的是好奇心，对思想的热爱以及将其转化为影响的能力。
对照乔布斯：“I think great artists and great engineers are similar, in that they both have a desire to express themselves.”，两者所表达的意思是一样的，Nadella的表达能力看着也不错。
Fortt: Some of what you just shared about accessibility is a good segue way into Build and some of the announcements that you’re making at the Developer Conference. I was looking at what you said four years ago, when we sat down here, in Redmond, about why Microsoft is leading with mobile and cloud.
福特：你刚刚分享的一些关于可访问性的内容，很好地过渡到了 Build 以及你在开发者大会上发布的一些公告。我回顾了四年前我们在这里，也就是在雷德蒙德坐下时你说的话，关于为什么微软在移动和云领域处于领先地位。
And it sounds exactly right in terms of what is important in the space. Do the same for me, if you will, with artificial intelligence. What are the necessary ingredients for a company to excel in AI and be a mega-scale player? How many mega-scale players are there going to be, and why is it essential?
在这个领域中，这听起来确实是正确的。如果可能的话，也请为我解释一下人工智能。一家公司要在人工智能领域取得成功并成为巨头，需要哪些必要条件？未来会有多少巨头公司出现，为什么这是至关重要的？
Nadella: First of all, the world that we are entering and, in fact, we’re in the midst of this massive transformation, is what I describe as an intelligent cloud and an intelligent edge. I mean, think about it, the computing fabric is getting more distributed and more ubiquitous.
纳德拉：首先，我们正在进入的世界，事实上，我们正处于这一巨大转变之中，我所描述的是智能云和智能边缘。我的意思是，想想看，计算基础设施正变得更加分布式和普遍存在。
You have now more computing power. Take GPU power in a car, [there’s more] than perhaps even in a data center a few years ago. You have a microcontroller with this Azure Sphere that we just recently announced. Every microcontroller out there, in your fridge, in any drill, is going to have compute power. Every factory is going to have millions and millions of sensors.
您现在拥有更多的计算能力。拿汽车中的 GPU 算力来说，甚至可能比几年前的数据中心还要强大。您拥有一个微控制器，配备了我们最近宣布的 Azure Sphere。每个微控制器，无论是在您的冰箱里，还是在任何电钻中，都将具备计算能力。每个工厂都将拥有数以百万计的传感器。
当时还没有想到AI会以chatGPT的方式出现，可能谁也没有想到，反过来，未来是不可预测的。
Fortt: Your neighbor Amazon is buying intelligent doorbells, video cameras recognizing faces…
福特：你的邻居亚马逊正在购买智能门铃、识别人脸的视频摄像头…
Nadella: That’s right. In fact, one of the announcements at Build is going to be a Qualcomm camera that’s capable of running an image classified in a container. So that means in the wild, you could start recognizing objects, or a DJI drone.
纳德拉：是的。事实上，在 Build 大会上的一个公告将是一款能够在容器中运行图像分类的高通相机。这意味着在野外，你可以开始识别物体，或者一架大疆无人机。
In fact, that’s going to be capable of running the Azure Edge so that you can detect any faults in an oil pipeline. So computing is becoming ubiquitous. And that means data is getting generated in large amounts. Once you have that, then what you do is, you do AI on it, which is your reason over large amounts of data, using all this computer power to give yourself, in whatever app, in whatever field, that predictive power, that analytical power, that capability to automate things.
事实上，这将能够运行 Azure Edge，以便您可以检测油管道中的任何故障。因此，计算正变得无处不在。这意味着数据正在大量生成。一旦您拥有了这些数据，接下来要做的就是对其进行人工智能处理，这是您在大量数据上进行推理的过程，利用所有这些计算能力为自己提供在任何应用程序、任何领域中的预测能力、分析能力和自动化能力。
Fortt: So do you have to be a mega-scale player in either cloud infrastructure or in data, to really be able to play in that then?
福特：那么，要想在那个领域发挥作用，是不是必须成为云基础设施或数据方面的巨头？
Nadella: I think that in our business, there is absolutely scale. If you think about Azure, we have 50 data centers, more than anybody else in terms of data center regions. We also have the capability of putting Azure Stack wherever you want it. If you have the ability to even embed things like Azure Sphere. So yes, you have to have to have some scale around the capability, whether it’s the AI capability or the cloud capability. I sort of view it as this next phase is not about celebrating just the mega-scale players, it’s who can really translate their scale into mass impact, where every business is becoming an AI business.
纳德拉：我认为在我们的业务中，绝对存在规模。如果你考虑 Azure，我们拥有 50 个数据中心，比任何其他数据中心地区都多。我们还有能力将 Azure Stack 放在任何你想要的地方。如果你有能力甚至嵌入像 Azure Sphere 这样的东西。所以是的，你必须在能力周围有一些规模，无论是 AI 能力还是云能力。我认为这个下一个阶段不仅仅是庆祝超大规模的参与者，而是谁能真正将他们的规模转化为大规模影响，每个企业都正在成为一个 AI 企业。
Because I feel like we’re in this phase still of celebrating AI breakthrough. I do that myself, too. If you think about it, Microsoft, I’m so proud of our achievements in human patterning speech or object recognition, or machine greeting and comprehension. These are big breakthroughs. But to me, what is going to define our business success is going to be our ability to translate that into a set of platforms and tools that are actually commoditized.
因为我觉得我们仍然处于庆祝人工智能突破的阶段。我自己也会这样做。如果你想想，微软，我为我们在人类模式语音或物体识别，或机器问候和理解方面的成就感到自豪。这些都是重大突破。但对我来说，定义我们业务成功的将是我们将其转化为一套实际上被商品化的平台和工具的能力。
Fortt: Commoditized? 福特：商品化？
Nadella: That means it should be possible for any developer out there in any company, at Maersk, at Bühler, any of the companies we work with, to be able to become an AI developer.
纳德拉：这意味着任何公司的任何开发人员，无论是在马士基、比勒还是我们合作的任何公司，都有可能成为人工智能开发人员。
Fortt: OK. Fortt：好的。
Nadella: Because unless and until we achieve that, at least for Microsoft’s business model, and our identity, just saying I have speech recognition that’s world-record-breaking is no good. I’ve got to give it to Xiaomi, so that they can, for every Chinese traveler, build a machine translation device, or a speech translation device. That’s breakthrough, and that’s what we’re focused on.
纳德拉：因为除非我们实现了这一点，至少对于微软的商业模式和我们的身份来说，仅仅说我有世界纪录的语音识别是没有用的。我必须把它交给小米，这样他们就可以为每个中国旅行者打造一个机器翻译设备或语音翻译设备。这是突破，也是我们专注的方向。
Fortt: So at another developer conference back in the fall, Amazon’s, they also were unveiling some AI related tools … Are we going to end up with these developer tools around artificial intelligence with walled gardens?
福特：所以在去年秋天的另一次开发者大会上，亚马逊也发布了一些与人工智能相关的工具...我们最终会得到这些围绕人工智能的开发者工具吗？
Nadella: In fact, if you look at Amazon and us, if there’s one real common ground we have between us is that we believe in our personal digital assistants, whether it’s Alexa and Cortana, in fact, working with each other. This is speaking to your walled gardens point, which is, I think that sometimes walled garden strategies can work for some of the time, but not all of the time. I think at least in our case, when it comes to Azure, we are building it out as an open ecosystem. A distributed ecosystem that addresses the world’s needs, and we’ll have strong competition.
纳德拉：事实上，如果你看看亚马逊和我们，我们之间真正的共同点之一就是我们相信我们的个人数字助手，无论是 Alexa 和 Cortana，事实上，彼此合作。这涉及到你提到的封闭生态系统，我认为有时候封闭生态系统的策略可能在某些时候有效，但并非总是如此。至少在我们的情况下，当涉及到 Azure 时，我们正在将其打造成一个开放的生态系统。一个分布式生态系统，满足世界的需求，我们将面临激烈的竞争。
In some sense, there will be some scale players that will always be competing. I’m not a believer in all these winner-take-all type of dynamics. I feel like you have to sort of compete each day to make progress.
在某种意义上，总会有一些规模的参与者会一直在竞争。我不相信所有这些赢者通吃的动态。我觉得你必须每天都努力竞争才能取得进步。
活在当下的哲学思想。
Fortt: I want to talk to you about data ethics, because I know that’s something that’s going to be a theme at Build, as well. Have you considered rethinking Microsoft’s business model around data? I mean, there’s been this idea in the industry that in exchange for free services, you basically allow certain companies to follow you around digitally. Yes, you have the opportunity to opt out using certain browsers or certain browser settings but generally speaking, the trade-off is you get to use this for free, we get to follow and target. Is there the possibility that that bargain is not going to work anymore?
福特：我想和你谈谈数据伦理，因为我知道这将是 Build 大会的一个主题。你有没有考虑过围绕数据重新思考微软的商业模式？我的意思是，业界有这样一个观念，即为了获得免费服务，你基本上允许某些公司在数字世界中跟踪你。是的，你有机会通过使用某些浏览器或特定的浏览器设置来选择退出，但一般来说，这种权衡是你可以免费使用这项服务，而我们可以跟踪和定位。这种交易可能不再奏效的可能性存在吗？
Nadella: That is a great question. In fact, if anything, I feel at Microsoft we’ve done a lot to make sure that our business model is fundamentally aligned with our customers, and their preference. What I mean by that is we do have some ad-supported businesses but we have subscriptions.
纳德拉：这是一个很好的问题。事实上，我认为在微软，我们已经做了很多工作，确保我们的商业模式与客户及其偏好基本一致。我的意思是，我们确实有一些广告支持的业务，但我们也有订阅服务。
Whether it’s for individuals, or for organizations. And the predominant business model at this company is all about making sure that the data, and any surplus that gets created out of data, like AI, is to benefit the user, not us. So we want to be a pure software company that, through subscriptions, helps every organization and every individual get more out of their data, more out of their time. That, to me, I think is going where the world is going. I think people are going to put more value on their data. Even individual consumers are going to wake up to the fact that there’s nothing free. And so, it’s a choice. It’s not to say that there isn’t room for someone to say, “Yeah, this is a good trade, where I’m using a free service in exchange for some data.” But there’s nothing free about it.
无论是针对个人还是组织。而这家公司主要的商业模式是确保数据以及由数据产生的任何剩余价值，如人工智能，都是为了使用户受益，而不是我们自己。因此，我们希望成为一家纯粹的软件公司，通过订阅帮助每个组织和个人更好地利用他们的数据，更好地利用他们的时间。对我来说，我认为这是世界发展的方向。我认为人们会更加重视他们的数据价值。即使是个人消费者也会意识到没有什么是免费的。因此，这是一个选择。并不是说没有人可以选择“是的，这是一个好的交易，我使用免费服务来换取一些数据”。但这并不是免费的。
订阅不等于不被跟踪，隐私理论本身就是瞎扯，做不到也不符合自然规律，有些人如果不分享自己的信息会活活憋死。
Fortt: So is there a Plan B for Bing, for Outlook.com, et cetera, that says, you know what? If we get to the point where tracking is something that there’s a backlash against, we have a plan for that.
福特：那么对于必应、Outlook.com 等，是否有备用计划，即，如果追踪成为引起强烈反对的事项，我们有相应计划。
Nadella: Absolutely. I mean, in fact, in a lot of these things, in Search, in particular, we have taken great pains that it’s only ads that are being driven on intent, which is part of the results page. We don’t take that data, use it elsewhere. We don’t have any targeting business that is at large. We are very, very conscious of those choices that we have made, in terms of making sure that the products that we create are all about users’ interests, as the first and foremost.
纳德拉：绝对。实际上，在很多方面，特别是在搜索方面，我们非常努力确保只有广告是基于意图推动的，这是结果页面的一部分。我们不会拿这些数据去其他地方使用。我们没有大规模的定向业务。我们非常非常注意我们所做的选择，确保我们创建的产品首先是关乎用户利益的。
Fortt: On cloud, you said when we sat down four years ago, “If you’re not already spending a lot of capital on the order of $4 or $5 billion each year to grow your…”
福特：关于云计算，四年前我们坐下来时你说，“如果你还没有每年花费 40 亿或 50 亿美元的资本来发展你的…”
Nadella: Which has increased.
纳德拉：已增加。
Fortt: Which has increased. It doesn’t go down, right? “Probably it’s a little too late to enter the market.” You went on to say, “There are at least two players like that, Amazon and Google, in particular, but we are one of the three in that category.” Update me. How does the competitive field look? Is it still the three? Would you tweak your definition of what it takes to really be...
福特：哪个增加了。不会下降，对吧？“可能现在进入市场有点太晚了。” 你接着说，“至少有两家像亚马逊和谷歌这样的玩家，但我们是这个类别中的三家之一。” 更新一下。竞争环境如何？还是三家吗？你会调整对真正成功所需条件的定义吗？
Nadella: Capital investment is one part of it. And clearly, I think Amazon and us, when it comes to broad cloud platform, are number one and number two. And that game’s on, and each quarter you all track us on that progress. And Google’s also in there and obviously has a lot of money and a lot of capital and is investing a ton.
纳德拉：资本投资是其中的一部分。显然，我认为在广泛的云平台方面，亚马逊和我们分别排名第一和第二。这场比赛正在进行，每个季度你们都在追踪我们的进展。谷歌也在其中，显然拥有大量资金和资本，并且正在大量投资。
Fortt: $2 billion, I think they recently announced? They’re starting to show some numbers.
福特：我想他们最近宣布了 20 亿美元？他们开始展示一些数字。
Nadella: And so, to me, what I think is going to be important here is increasingly trust. What I mean by that is it’s not just about capital. Let’s say among the three of us if you think about talking to a CEO of an industrial company, a CEO of a health care company, a financial services company…
纳德拉：对我来说，我认为在这里变得越来越重要的是信任。我的意思是，这不仅仅是资本的问题。比如说，在我们三个人中间，如果你考虑和一家工业公司的首席执行官、一家医疗保健公司的首席执行官、一家金融服务公司的首席执行官交谈…
Fortt: A grocery company.
Fortt：一家食品公司。
Nadella: Yeah. Grocery company, good example. I think it’s going to come down to trust. Trust not just in the technology, the ethics around AI, privacy, security — all that also matters — [but] trust in business model, where that alignment of your interests as a customer and the interests of the provider are fully aligned. I sort of say one of the currencies is what you think, what you say, and what you do have to be in alignment.
纳德拉：是的。杂货公司，是个很好的例子。我认为关键在于信任。不仅是对技术的信任，还有关于人工智能的伦理、隐私、安全等方面的信任——所有这些也很重要——对商业模式的信任，即你作为客户的利益与提供者的利益完全一致。我常说，其中一种货币就是你的想法、言论和行动必须保持一致。
一致性=现实=自我更新，看来段永平对微软的评价是有出处的。
Fortt: Now, I’m reading between the lines here. I hear stories about retailers coming to Microsoft because hey, Amazon’s all in grocery now, with Whole Foods. Retailers are looking over their shoulder wondering, Amazon’s got a good platform, but at the same time, are they going to come at the core of my business model?
福特：现在，我在字里行间揣测。我听说有零售商前来找微软，因为嘿，亚马逊现在全面进军食品杂货，拥有全食超市。零售商正在左顾右盼，想知道，亚马逊拥有一个强大的平台，但同时，他们会不会直接冲击我的核心商业模式？
Nadella: Yeah, it’s not even just Amazon, by the way. You’ve got to remember, Amazon and Google both are fantastic at being able to rig transactions. It’s not that, you know, Google is somehow more friendly to retailers.
纳德拉：是的，甚至不仅仅是亚马逊。你必须记住，亚马逊和谷歌都非常擅长操纵交易。并不是说，你知道，谷歌对零售商更友好。
They have a nice two-sided market that they can subsidize one to advantage [the other] and also, by the way, the advertising business is just so funky, which is sort of second priced auction. I’ve never seen business models where [when] there’s more demand, there are higher prices.
他们拥有一个不错的双边市场，可以通过补贴一方来获益，而且顺便说一句，广告业务非常独特，采用的是第二高价拍卖。我从未见过像这样的商业模式，需求增加时价格也会上涨。
So I feel like any customer who is essentially subsidizing their own tax increase should think through exactly how that’s going to work out in the long run. So that’s where I feel like long-run business model trust is going to be so important.
所以我觉得任何实质上在补贴自己的税收增加的客户都应该仔细考虑这将在长期内如何运作。这就是我认为长期商业模式信任如此重要的地方。
这个说法很奇怪，微软如果有相同的能力会有不一样的做法？
Fortt: How do you structure your workforce to, I guess, best embrace that interest in trust that the customer has? Is there a different approach in sales, in messaging? What are you telling people?
福特：您是如何构建您的团队，以最好地拥抱客户对信任的兴趣呢？在销售和信息传递方面是否有不同的方法？您会告诉团队什么？
Nadella: In fact, that’s where you’re getting every part of your organization aligned, starting with your sense of purpose and mission. That’s why when I say we want to empower people in organizations all over the planet it’s got to be more than a set of words.
纳德拉：事实上，这就是你让组织的每个部分保持一致的地方，从你的目标和使命开始。这就是为什么当我说我们想要赋予全球各地组织中的人力量时，这必须不仅仅是一组词语。
Our success is based on our customers’ success. Second is then create that business model. Take subscriptions. If you don’t use it, they will churn out. That means you only get paid when they’re using it and driving value. Consumption business model, so getting fully aligned on the business model. And then shaping the culture, whether it’s the person in the field, we now have these new roles in the field called customer success. That’s all about making sure that the customers are able to do what they want to do with technology to impact their business. And to me, that type of transformation and consistency, it can’t be like I’m doing something here, but something else somewhere else.
我们的成功建立在客户的成功之上。其次是创建商业模式。采取订阅制。如果您不使用它，他们就会流失。这意味着只有在他们使用并创造价值时才会付费。消费业务模式，因此在商业模式上完全保持一致。然后塑造文化，无论是现场的人员，我们现在在现场有这些称为客户成功的新角色。这一切都是为了确保客户能够利用技术影响他们的业务。对我来说，这种转变和一致性，不能是我在这里做一些事情，而在其他地方做另一些事情。
订阅制就能够保持一致？数据库或者CRM，从A换到B的成本巨大，大部分客户都没有话语权。
Fortt: How do you compensate customer success?
福特：你如何补偿客户的成功？
Nadella: Just by how customers are rating you. NPS is a good one.
纳德拉：仅凭客户对你的评价。NPS 是一个很好的指标。
Fortt: Net Promoter Scores.
Fortt：净推荐值。
Nadella: Net Promoter Scores is a good one. Are they consuming? For example, have they activated all the capabilities? So we have what we describe as leading indicators of success of our customers. And in fact compensate our folks, not on revenue, not on margin, but on those metrics.
纳德拉：净推荐分数是一个很好的指标。他们是否在使用我们的产品？例如，他们是否激活了所有的功能？因此，我们有一些被描述为客户成功的领先指标。实际上，我们的员工的报酬不是基于收入，也不是基于利润，而是基于这些指标。
这个描述就有些扯淡了，简单问题复杂化。
Fortt: Interesting. I think we’ve already established you were right about a lot of things over the past four-plus years. What were you wrong about?
福特：有趣。我认为我们已经确定在过去四年多的时间里，您在很多事情上是正确的。您错在哪里？
Nadella: I think the thing that has caught me most by surprise is how multi-constituent… Even when I started out four years ago, I thought I understood it’s about customers. It’s about our employees. It’s about our shareholders.
纳德拉：我认为最让我感到意外的是多元构成... 即使在四年前开始时，我以为我明白了这是关于客户。这是关于我们的员工。这是关于我们的股东。
But it’s not just that. It is about recognizing that in every community that we operate in and serve, there are multiple constituents that all have to be in harmony with your interests. That is probably the place where I’ve learned a lot.
但不仅仅是这样。这是关于认识到在我们运营和服务的每个社区中，有多个利益相关者，所有这些利益相关者都必须与您的利益保持和谐。这可能是我学到很多东西的地方。
Fortt: Starbucks just got a lesson in that, if I’m reading you the right way. Somebody who’s in your store, you’ve made a certain brand promise, they haven’t bought anything necessarily, but they can have a big impact on the perception of your brand.
福特：星巴克刚刚领教到这一点，如果我理解你的意思没错的话。有人在你的店里，你给出了某种品牌承诺，他们不一定买了什么东西，但他们对你品牌的认知可能会产生重大影响。
Nadella: Yeah, by the way, I’m on the board of Starbucks, and I think that Starbucks and Kevin [Johnson] and team responded to something that was a brand promise, and what the expectation was, very well. And I feel like they’ve set the bar, in fact, of how it’s not about sort of being perfect, it’s about being able to learn from things that happen and to be able to improve and change the culture of your organization. That’s what we’re doing, as well.
纳德拉：是的，顺便说一下，我是星巴克的董事会成员，我认为星巴克和凯文[约翰逊]及团队对品牌承诺以及预期做出了非常好的回应。我觉得他们确实树立了标杆，事实上，这不是要追求完美，而是要能够从发生的事情中学习，改进并改变组织文化。这也是我们正在做的事情。
Fortt: So what drove that home for you? You said that was an area that caught you off guard a bit, the multi-constituent nature of your job. Was there a moment where you realized…
福特：那是什么让你深有体会？你说这是一个让你有点措手不及的领域，你的工作具有多方面的特性。有没有一个时刻让你意识到…
Nadella: Yeah, I’ll tell you. In fact, one of my biggest moments was, we got a letter probably my first year in from the association of the blind in the United States about saying, “Hey, look, you guys have to take software, work you do, very seriously for accessibility, especially for people with visual impairment.” And I’ve always, in fact, championed — long before I was CEO, I used to be the one who internally championed our accessibility work. But that’s when it struck me as, this can’t be a checkbox. This requires us to integrate into the mainstream, and, you know, universal design needs to become something that is much more culturally ingrained in everything we do.
纳德拉：是的，我会告诉你。事实上，我最大的时刻之一是，在我大概第一年的时候，我们收到了来自美国盲人协会的一封信，内容是“嘿，你们必须认真对待软件，尤其是对视觉障碍者的辅助功能。” 事实上，早在我成为 CEO 之前，我就一直是内部推动我们的辅助功能工作的人。但那时让我感到震惊的是，这不能只是一个勾选框。这需要我们将其整合到主流中，通用设计需要成为我们所做的一切中更加文化融入的东西。
And it’s been phenomenal. I mean, to me, [it’s] some of the most exciting impact of AI, whether it’s gaze technology, and what it can do for someone with ALS, or some machine reading technology, and what it can do with someone with dyslexia. That’s now been an awakening for us.
这是非常了不起的。我是说，对我来说，人工智能的一些最激动人心的影响，无论是凝视技术，以及它对患有 ALS 的人能做些什么，还是一些机器阅读技术，以及它对患有阅读障碍的人能做些什么。这对我们来说现在是一种觉醒。
And that’s when it caught me in saying that, you know, that particular advocacy group sending me a letter was a bit of a wake-up call for me to sort of recognize that we will only be a company that we, you know, want to be, if we take all constituents, and but yet approach with that universality in our products.
那时候，当那个特定的倡导团体给我寄来一封信时，我意识到这是一个对我的警示，让我意识到只有当我们把所有利益相关者都考虑在内，并且在产品中体现普遍性时，我们才能成为我们想要成为的公司。
跟乔布斯还有很大的差距，“if you do the right things on the top line, the bottom line will follow.”，只管往前走，盯着底线是不能解决问题的，事实上，这类问题在chatGPT出来后才有好的方案，如果把时间、精力放在这里肯定不是效率最高的做法。
Fortt: I think you can expect some more letters from advocacy groups now. What do you have new around that specifically, accessibility at Build?
福特：我认为现在你可以期待一些来自倡导团体的信件。在这方面，具体来说，在 Build 方面有什么新动向？
Nadella: Yeah, so one of the things that we did last year was something called “AI for Earth.” The idea is not just build technology and advances in AI, but to use it to fund organizations’ research that are going to really turn, in that case, AI for things like tackling climate change or creating an early warning system for Zika, or what have you.
纳德拉：是的，去年我们做的一件事叫做“AI 为地球”。这个想法不仅仅是建立技术和推进人工智能，而是利用它来资助那些真正会将 AI 用于应对气候变化或创建寨卡病毒早期预警系统等事务的组织研究。
And so we’re now going to take that same approach for AI for accessibility. So we are putting a $25 million grant, which is going be available to research institutions and other nonprofits to be able to take advantage of, and use AI tech to solve some of the accessibility challenges out there.
因此，我们现在将采取同样的方法来推动 AI 可访问性。因此，我们将提供 2500 万美元的资助，这笔资金将提供给研究机构和其他非营利组织，以便利用 AI 技术来解决一些可访问性挑战。
Fortt: I think the last time I sat down with you, [former GE CEO] Jeff Immelt was next to you. And you were talking about ways that Azure and Predix, GE’s platform for industrial software, were going to work together. GE is announcing that they are cutting their digital unit by more than 25 percent this year, but the industrial internet moves on. Are you going to do anything within Microsoft to pick up the slack for what companies like GE might cut back? Different partnerships?
福特：我记得上次和你坐在一起时，[前 GE 首席执行官]杰夫·伊梅尔特就坐在你旁边。你们当时在讨论 Azure 和 Predix，GE 的工业软件平台，将如何合作。GE 宣布他们今年将削减数字部门超过 25％，但工业互联网仍在发展。在微软内部，你会采取任何行动来填补像 GE 这样的公司可能削减的空缺吗？会有不同的合作伙伴关系吗？
Nadella: In fact, we just were coming back from Hanover, where the biggest industrial conference happened. And it’s stunning to see — you know, Microsoft would go to Hanover in the past and we had an embedded business. But this has now become a main show for us, if you look at the number of announcements coming out with this fundamental fact that Azure, along with Azure Edge, is becoming built-in to every modern factory. I mean, one of the things I even talked about in our earnings last quarter was turning to material handling. Literally, they’re taking the material handling in a particular modern factory that they’re building, a digital factory, using drones to fly through to optimize the pallet routing and optimize the entire supply chain efficiency.
纳德拉：事实上，我们刚从汉诺威回来，那里举办了最大的工业会议。令人惊讶的是——你知道，微软过去会去汉诺威，我们有一个嵌入式业务。但现在这已经成为我们的主要展示，如果你看看随着这一基本事实而出现的各种公告数量，Azure 和 Azure Edge 正被内置到每个现代工厂中。我的意思是，我甚至在上个季度的收益报告中谈到了转向物料处理。实际上，他们正在进行特定现代工厂的物料处理，建立数字工厂，使用无人机飞行来优化托盘路由并优化整个供应链效率。
Or Bühler, in fact, that’s another company, that most of the corn in the world goes through their machines. And it turns out that if you really want to protect the food production of the world as it relates to corn, you want to detect any toxin early on. They’re using computer vision at the Edge to be able to in their, you know, machines.
奥尔·比勒，事实上，这是另一家公司，世界上大部分玉米都经过他们的机器。事实证明，如果您真的想保护与玉米相关的世界食品生产，您希望尽早检测任何毒素。他们正在利用边缘计算机视觉技术来在他们的机器中实现这一目标。
Fortt: Already they’re doing that.
福特：他们已经在这样做了。
Nadella: Already. And we’re working with them. So to me, being able to sort of translate what I think of as our AI promise, or our cloud and its Edge, into these industrial applications, those are the killer apps. That’s what I celebrate.
纳德拉：已经。我们正在与他们合作。对我来说，能够将我认为的人工智能承诺，或者我们的云和边缘计算，转化为这些工业应用，这些就是杀手级应用。这就是我所庆祝的。
Fortt: Closer to home, there’s this tension between big tech and the communities around big tech. Not just in Seattle area, also seen in Silicon Valley, in particular. But in Seattle right now, Seattle proper, there’s this proposal for a head tax. Basically, I think it’s $500 for every worker just for big companies and to pay for homeless services.
福特：更接近家门口，大科技公司与周围社区之间存在紧张关系。不仅在西雅图地区，硅谷也出现了这种情况，尤其是在西雅图市内。目前在西雅图，有一项提议要征收一项头号税。基本上，我认为是每名员工 500 美元，仅适用于大公司，用于支付无家可归者服务。
My gut says this isn’t really so much about homeless services as perhaps it’s this tension between, boy, these big tech companies are raising the standard, making it more expensive, gentrifying, and it’s good for some people, but not good for everybody. We need them to give something back. Is that your view on what this is really about? And what does a company like Microsoft, any big tech company do to perhaps better this, change the narrative, move the debate forward?
我的直觉告诉我，这并不仅仅是关于无家可归者服务的问题，也许更多是关于这种紧张关系，这些大科技公司正在提高标准，使生活更昂贵，推动了新兴市区化，这对一些人是有利的，但并不利于所有人。我们需要他们回馈社会。这是你对这个问题的看法吗？像微软这样的公司，或者任何一家大型科技公司，可以做些什么来改善这种情况，改变叙事，推动辩论向前发展？
Nadella: I think it’s the right dialogue for us to have, first of all. Because in some sense, I’ve always believed that if just a few multinational companies are the only companies that are getting bigger and more profitable than the rest of the economy, is not showing the same vibrancy in employing people and in general, inequality increases in society, that’s not stable. That’s not stable for any liberal democracy.
纳德拉：我认为首先进行这种对话是正确的。因为在某种意义上，我一直相信，如果只有少数跨国公司在变得更大更有利可图，而其他经济体并没有展现同样的活力来雇佣人员，总体上，社会的不平等加剧，这是不稳定的。对于任何自由民主国家来说，这都是不稳定的。
Fortt: So is the tax a good idea? Is it the answer?
福特：这个税收是个好主意吗？它是答案吗？
Nadella: I don’t know whether that particular tax is a good idea, because you’ve got to make sure, basically — because all taxes, you know, can create unintended consequences for economic growth. So you’ve got to think it through. It’s a system. But that said, though, should every community think about how to make sure that the people in the community, across all parts of the economic strata, are able to live there, thrive there? Absolutely. If there is what you call gentrification and the housing expenses are just going up, that’s no solution. Our own employees will not want to live in a non-diverse community over time, so we will have to have responsibility, quite frankly, in every community. Not just in Seattle, not just in Redmond, but in every country we operate in. That’s why I think of us as a multinational company.
纳德拉：我不知道那种特定的税收是否是一个好主意，因为你必须确保，基本上——因为所有的税收，你知道，都可能对经济增长产生意想不到的后果。所以你必须仔细考虑。这是一个系统。但话虽如此，每个社区都应该考虑如何确保社区内的人们，无论经济阶层如何，都能在那里生活、茁壮成长？绝对是的。如果所谓的新兴阶层化导致住房开支不断上涨，那不是解决方案。我们自己的员工最终不会想住在一个缺乏多样性的社区，因此我们必须负责，坦率地说，在每个社区。不仅仅是在西雅图，不仅仅是在雷德蒙德，而是在我们经营的每个国家。这就是为什么我认为我们是一家跨国公司。
Every time I go into any capital or any city or any community inside the United States, I always ask myself how many people are around Microsoft — how many partners, who do they employ, what are their median salaries, what is the opportunity? Without that, I don’t think Microsoft continues to thrive.
每次我进入美国的任何首都、城市或社区，我总是问自己微软周围有多少人——有多少合作伙伴，他们雇佣了多少人，他们的中位工资是多少，机会在哪里？没有这些，我认为微软就无法继续蓬勃发展。
Fortt: But what do you do differently to get a different resolution? I remember 15 years ago living in Silicon Valley, sitting down, having this conversation with the Silicon Valley Leadership Group. Boy, it’s really expensive, it’s hard to recruit workers into Silicon Valley. But housing prices there are up at least 2.5x, since then.
福特：但你们有什么不同的做法来获得不同的解决方案？我记得 15 年前住在硅谷，坐下来与硅谷领导集团进行这种对话。哎呀，真的很贵，很难吸引员工来硅谷。但自那时以来，那里的房价至少上涨了 2.5 倍。
Nadella: I think on this particular one, there are some solutions. I think we should first of all collect the data and say, wow, there is ways to create lower, you know, I would say low cost housing and accessibility to low-cost housing in these urban centers so that we don’t have just runaway costs of housing. I think some of these things — whether it’s runaway costs of our health care, runaway costs of our education, or runaway costs of housing — these are challenges that I think have to be faced and market forces should work to solve those problems.
纳德拉：我认为在这个特定问题上，有一些解决方案。我认为我们首先应该收集数据并说，哇，有办法创造更低成本的住房，以及提高这些城市中低成本住房的可及性，这样我们就不会只是住房成本失控。我认为其中一些问题——无论是医疗保健成本失控、教育成本失控，还是住房成本失控——这些都是我认为必须面对的挑战，市场力量应该努力解决这些问题。
Fortt: There’s a U.S. trade delegation in China right now trying to work some things out. What’s the best case scenario out of that, as far as what gets brought back?
福特：目前有一支美国贸易代表团正在中国努力解决一些问题。在那方面，最好的情况是什么，他们能带回什么？
Nadella: Here’s my simple view: I think the next 10 years, next 20 years, next 30 years, whatever your time horizon, is going to be defined by these two countries — China and the United States — creating more interdependence, not less.
纳德拉：这是我的简单观点：我认为未来 10 年、20 年、30 年，无论你的时间跨度是多少，将由这两个国家——中国和美国——创造更多相互依存，而非相互独立来定义。
That’s what’s going to be good for the two countries. That’s what’s going to be good for the world. So my hope is that any dialogue that happens in any capital, in any venue, is all about sort of breaking through. I think there are legitimate issues that need to be discussed. But you need to come up with solutions, because interdependence is probably good for economic growth and stability for the world.
这对两国都是有利的。这对世界也是有利的。因此，我希望在任何首都、任何场合发生的对话都是为了突破障碍。我认为有一些合法的问题需要讨论。但你需要提出解决方案，因为相互依存可能有利于世界经济增长和稳定。
Fortt: Any third rails you see?
福特：你看到任何第三轨了吗？
Nadella: When you say third rail, what do you mean?
纳德拉：当你说第三轨时，你是什么意思？
Fortt: Things that they shouldn’t touch, or push, or…
福特：他们不应该触碰、推动或者……
Nadella: I think that anything that sort of creates uncertainty is just not good. Whom does it serve? I think that the more we recognize that it’s true, that globalization, or free trade, as it was conceived, has not created equitable growth in all parts. Like, that’s the issue that I think is being debated. So that means you’ve got to go back, though, to the real principles of free trade and make sure that they are, in fact, implemented fairly.
纳德拉：我认为任何制造不确定性的事情都不好。它为谁服务？我认为我们越是认识到这一点是真实的，全球化或自由贸易，如其最初构想的那样，并没有在所有地方创造公平增长。这就是我认为正在被辩论的问题。这意味着你必须回到自由贸易的真正原则，并确保它们实际上被公平实施。
Fortt: I want to talk about something that we’ve talked about before, which is gender diversity, women at Microsoft. About a month ago, the Seattle Times did a big story on Microsoft’s culture. It said, “The culture is still male dominant. There’s casual sexism and change comes slowly.” Did you think it was fair?
福特：我想谈谈我们之前谈过的一个话题，即性别多样性，微软公司的女性员工。大约一个月前，西雅图时报对微软公司的文化做了一篇重要报道。报道称，“文化仍然以男性为主导。存在着随意的性别歧视，变革来得缓慢。”你认为这样说公平吗？
Nadella: I think that, you know, this is an issue that is front and center for me, and for my leadership team, because in some sense, yes, change happens slowly, but we have to push every day and make progress every day. And that’s where I have to hold myself accountable.
纳德拉：我认为，你知道，这对我和我的领导团队来说是一个核心问题，因为在某种意义上，是的，变革发生得很慢，但我们必须每天努力推动并取得进展。这就是我必须对自己负责的地方。
In fact, it starts with culture. When I think about the amount of time I and my leadership team now spend on making sure that we have that everyday inclusive culture. At every meeting, we’re able to make sure that the people, the diverse group we have — gender, ethnic — are all able to participate. So I think it starts with culture, and taking it as first class. Second, it just cannot be just words. It also has to be a set of metrics. So, for example, my own compensation and my leadership team’s compensation is now tied to a set of metrics where we have to make progress year-over-year. So I think you’ve got to go to work on this, whether it’s on the culture or the metrics that really promote diversity and inclusion. And it’s the right thing for us to focus on. And not be satisfied with whatever we have.
事实上，这始于文化。当我考虑到我和我的领导团队现在花在确保我们拥有每天包容性文化上的时间时。在每次会议上，我们都能确保我们的员工，我们拥有的多元化群体——性别、种族——都能参与其中。所以我认为这始于文化，并将其视为第一要务。其次，这不能仅仅是空话。它还必须是一套指标。例如，我的薪酬和我的领导团队的薪酬现在与一套指标挂钩，我们必须实现年度进展。所以我认为你必须着手解决这个问题，无论是文化还是真正促进多样性和包容性的指标。这是我们应该关注的正确事情。不要对我们现有的情况感到满足。
Fortt: Is that a new thing, on tying compensation to diversity metrics? I remember, you know, Brian Krzanich, [CEO] at Intel, is doing something where by job category, he wants, you know, the target to be, let’s reach the available population, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. So if electrical engineers are 35 percent women, then that’s our target. Not 50-50, but 35 percent because — that used to be called quotas, and it was a dirty word. How does it factor in now that we’re at the place we are in diversity?
福特：将薪酬与多样性指标挂钩是一种新趋势吗？我记得，你知道，英特尔的 CEO 布赖恩·克兰齐奇正在做一些工作，按职位类别，他希望，你知道，目标是，让我们根据劳工统计局的数据达到可用人口。因此，如果电气工程师中有 35%是女性，那么这就是我们的目标。不是 50-50，而是 35%，因为这曾经被称为配额，是一个贬义词。在我们现在的多样性处于何种地步时，这如何起作用呢？
Nadella: I think, first of all, we’ve got to start by saying this: Don’t think of this as a quota. This is, in fact again, necessary for business success. I mean, think about what a diverse team can do in a multi-constituent world. I mean, if you go back to the question you asked me, “What has surprised you?”
纳德拉：我认为，首先，我们必须从这样说起：不要把这看作是一个配额。事实上，这对于业务成功来说是必要的。我的意思是，想想一个多元化团队在多元化的世界中能做些什么。我是说，如果你回到你问我的那个问题，“什么让你感到惊讶？”
What’s surprised me is, wow, as a company, we have to serve many constituents and their interests, their unmet and articulated needs. So every product group, every sales team, every marketing team will be better served by having diversity.
令我惊讶的是，哇，作为一家公司，我们必须服务许多利益相关者及其利益，他们未满足和明确表达的需求。因此，每个产品组、每个销售团队、每个营销团队都将通过拥有多样性而得到更好的服务。
And so to me, having representation reflect the world we want to serve is the best thing that we can do for our long-term business. And so that’s what inspires, you know, drives us. And even there, having some metrics on progress. For example, take women and woman representation. Over the last 18 months, we’ve had a 50 percent increase in the number of corporate vice presidents at Microsoft. That’s fantastic to see. Is it sufficient? Absolutely not. But is it a move in the right direction? I think so.
对我来说，让代表团队反映我们想要服务的世界是我们为长期业务所能做的最好的事情。这就是激励我们的动力。即使在这方面，也有一些关于进展的指标。例如，以女性和女性代表为例。在过去的 18 个月里，微软公司的企业副总裁人数增加了 50％。看到这一点真是太棒了。这足够了吗？绝对不够。但是这是朝着正确方向迈出的一步吗？我认为是的。
对现实的准确表达，Intel这么搞只能说明不可救药了。
Fortt: What are you reading now? As we as we start to wrap up?
福特：你现在在读什么？当我们开始总结的时候？
Nadella: I’m reading a book, God I forget the thing, it’s The Multiple Literacies of Leadership. It’s a fascinating book, which sort of speaks, in some sense, to this intellectual pursuit now I have around saying, it’s not just one stroke you can have. You’ve got to think about the complexity, the ambiguity that exists, the uncertainty that exists in the world. You need to be able to then turn that into understanding and clarity. And you can’t be excellent in just one thing, even as a leader and the way you lead. Somebody sort of said this very beautifully to me which is, for example, clarity — I talk a lot about what leaders fundamentally do is about bringing clarity. But it’s about clarity of where you need to get to, but not be too dogmatic about the means and being able to even have that distinction.
纳德拉：我正在读一本书，天哪，我忘了，它叫《领导的多重能力》。这是一本引人入胜的书，在某种程度上谈到了我现在对这种智力追求的看法，这不仅仅是一种能力。你必须考虑到存在的复杂性、模糊性和世界上存在的不确定性。然后你需要能够将这些转化为理解和清晰度。即使作为领导者，你也不能只擅长一件事。有人曾经非常美妙地对我说过，比如，清晰度——我经常谈论的是领导者的基本工作是带来清晰度。但这是关于你需要达到何处的清晰度，而不是对手段过于教条化，甚至能够做出这种区分。
So I’ve lately gone back to leadership and another book that I recently read, which I loved, which is just something that I think about a lot, is Forged in Crisis. And that’s a great book of some people, like, you know [Abraham] Lincoln, in particular and how he came through his two terms to change history, has been a real imprint on me.
最近我又回到了领导力方面，最近读的另一本我很喜欢的书是《危机锻造》。这本书讲述了一些人，比如林肯，尤其是他如何在两个任期中改变历史，对我产生了深远的影响。
都是卷入自我消耗的书。
Fortt: Finally, Satya Nadella before work. What’s your routine? Is there something that you do before you’re in the door, you’re on? I mean, a lot of us start work really before we get to work, of course. But before you even get into that mode, is there a certain preparation that you feel works for you?
福特：最后，萨蒂亚·纳德拉上班前。你的日常是什么？在你进入工作状态之前，你会做些什么？我是说，当然很多人在到达工作岗位之前就开始工作了。但在你进入工作模式之前，你会做一些特定的准备吗？
Nadella: I think my ritual is, however short on time or sleep or whatever, I somehow figure out or manage to get my 30 minutes of a run every day, wherever I am. And that, I must say, is perhaps what gives me all the energy and more.
纳德拉：我认为我的日常习惯是，无论时间多么紧张或睡眠不足，我总能在每天找到 30 分钟去跑步，无论身在何处。我必须说，这或许是给予我所有精力和更多的原因。
Fortt: Keeps you trim, too.
福特：也让你保持苗条。
Nadella: I hope so. 纳德拉：希望如此。
Fortt: Yeah, the camera doesn’t lie, it does. Satya, thanks.
福特：是的，相机不会撒谎。萨蒂亚，谢谢。
Nadella: Thank you so much, Jon.
纳德拉：非常感谢，乔恩。
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