2020-08-19 Glenn M. Renwick.Going full circle - Growing fintechs & mental health

Refer To：《Glenn Renwick | Segment 5: Going full circle - Growing fintechs & mental health》。

Speaker 1:

This is our fifth and final part of my interview with Glenn Renwick. I'm Bindi from JRNY and for this final segment we'll be talking about going full circle and working with fintechs and startup companies.

这是我与Glenn Renwick访谈的第五个也是最后一个部分。我是JRNY的Bindi，在这最后一部分中，我们将讨论如何回归本源，与金融科技和初创企业合作。

Obviously you have extensive experience in large corporate enterprises but you also have experience in dealing with fintech companies like being on the board of Fiserv for 19 years and as chairman for the last few before stepping down recently in June.

显然，您在大型企业中拥有丰富的经验，同时您也有与金融科技公司打交道的经历，比如您曾在Fiserv董事会任职19年，并在最近6月卸任前担任主席。

Are you able to give us a bit more background about some of these experiences?

您能否为我们详细介绍一下这些经历的背景？

Glenn Renwick:

Yeah, we'll start with Fiserv, because it's relevant to your questions, but when I joined Fiserv, it was actually something that was far from sort of what we would call fintech,

是的，我们先从Fiserv说起，因为这与您的问题相关，但当我加入Fiserv时，它实际上还远未达到我们今天所称的金融科技范畴，

that we would use that definition today, we did check processing. So it's a great example of evolving through, you know, it had its basis in the banking industry, and how did the banking industry evolve, and more importantly,

按照今天的定义来说，我们那时主要是做支票处理。所以这是一个通过演进展示自身变化的绝佳例子——它起源于银行业，银行业如何演变，以及更重要的是，

How did Fiserv play a role in that evolution?

Fiserv在这一演变中扮演了什么角色？

And that was what it was intriguing to me and I always joined the board partly so I would be a better CEO to see things from the board perspective and then go back with my board so that was one of my motivations.

这正是让我着迷的地方，我加入董事会部分原因在于希望从董事会的角度看问题，从而成为一个更好的CEO，然后再与我的董事会沟通，这也是我的动机之一。

But one of the things I got from Fiserv was much more of an acquisition focused because it's very hard to do everything yourself. You don't Easily envision all the opportunities.

而我从Fiserv学到的一点是，更多地关注收购，因为独自完成一切非常困难，你不可能轻易预见到所有的机会。

And this is where the ecosystem of fintechs really comes, I think, together from my perspective, that we acquired a lot of very, very good companies. But became the integrator of them so that the end customers, the bank and their customers,

我认为这正是金融科技生态系统开始聚合的时候，我们收购了很多非常优秀的公司，并成为它们的整合者，使得最终的客户——银行及其客户，

were able to see a much bigger product suite than perhaps any one of the startup or smaller companies would have been able to make available. But on the other hand,

能够获得比任何初创或小公司单独能提供的更大产品组合。但另一方面，

Fiserv benefited from being able to take advantage of technologies and companies that weren't as constrained as a bigger company gets to be and then focus on how do you integrate that into your distribution channel and into your value proposition.

Fiserv则受益于能够利用那些不像大公司那样受限的技术和公司，并专注于如何将这些整合到其分销渠道和价值主张中。

So it was a great example of seeing a highly acquisitive company Relative to Progressive where we were sort of developing almost everything internally and seeing how those acquisitions were able to be integrated both from a business perspective and a culture perspective and some of the issues that come along for the ride with those types of things.

所以这很好地展示了与Progressive相比，一家极具收购意向的公司如何运作，而我们那时几乎内部开发一切，看到了这些收购如何在业务和文化层面上整合，以及随之而来的一些问题。

I wouldn't have gotten any other direct way And I hope along the way my perspective was able to help Fiserv continue to become, to be a great company, but to become an even greater company and lead a significant acquisition.

我本不会以其他方式获得这些经验，我希望我的视角能帮助Fiserv持续成长，不仅成为一家伟大的公司，更成为一家更卓越的公司，并主导重大收购。

I hope we'll be a really, really big positive for all the banking system in the United States.

我希望这能为整个美国银行系统带来非常非常大的正面影响。

Speaker 1:

So you touched on this just now. What were some specific things you learned from being on the board at Fiserv that you then were able to bring into your role as CEO?

您刚才提到了这一点。您在Fiserv董事会中学到了哪些具体内容，随后又如何将这些内容运用到您作为CEO的角色中？

Glenn Renwick:

Oh, I think that when you go through a lot of acquisitions, you learn. If you go through one or two, you may not learn as much. And you learn, perhaps you start off thinking price is one of the most important things.

哦，我认为经历大量收购会让你学到很多。如果只经历一两个，你可能学不到那么多。你可能一开始就认为价格是最重要的因素之一。

No one's going to minimize price in acquisition. But terms, And understandings, especially post-acquisition and culture. Are you going to have to be sort of fighting cultures or are the cultures going to reasonably integrate?

在收购中，没有人会忽视价格。但交易条款，以及特别是收购后的理解和文化——你是否需要对抗文化冲突，还是这些文化能够合理整合？

And very few are going to seamlessly integrate. And those are things that when missed up front, regardless of the product, I tend to end up not working out as well.

而且极少能够无缝整合。如果这些前期没处理好，无论产品如何，最终结果往往不理想。

If you get good product and a good cultural match, then that is sort of the sweet spot. So terms and what I mean by terms rather than just price. What is the post-sale kind of earn out for perhaps owners or smaller owners?

如果你能获得优秀的产品和良好的文化契合，那就是理想状态。所以，我所说的条款，不仅仅是价格，还包括售后业绩兑现机制，可能适用于创始人或小股东？

Because if you don't structure that correctly, then someone will be like, well, I maximize by doing this. Whereas the buyer might say, but I had this in mind.

因为如果你没有正确设计这些结构，就会出现这样的问题：卖方可能会说，“我这样做能最大化利益”，而买方则可能有不同的预期。

Those kind of terms, whether it's governance, whether it's lots of things, they tend to be more important. The price is clearly important. Once paid, done, the terms stay with you for a lot longer.

这些条款，无论是治理结构还是其他很多方面，往往更为重要。价格固然重要，但一旦支付完毕，条款会伴随你更长时间。

Speaker 1:

And now you've joined the board of Mentemia, which is a Kiwi mental health non-profit named after the Italian word for my mind. Can you give us a quick elevator pitch?

现在您又加入了Mentemia的董事会，这是一家以意大利语中“我的心智”为名的新西兰心理健康非营利组织。您能给我们做个简短的介绍吗？

Glenn Renwick:

Sure. Kiwis, I think, and this is true for others as well around the world, are very focused on their physical fitness and health and well-being. That's fantastic.

当然。我认为新西兰人，以及世界各地的人，都非常关注他们的身体健康和福祉，这非常棒。

I'm not sure that we, or for that matter necessarily anyone else, think quite the same way about mental fitness or mental health. And count me in that group because that was not something that I had Any real background in,

但我不确定我们，或者说其他人，是否同样重视心理健康。而我也曾不在这个群体中，因为那并非我真正擅长的领域，

but the fact is life is coming at you pretty fast these days and I can see it and I certainly saw it in my last years at Progressive.

但事实是，如今生活节奏非常快，我能感受到，我在Progressive的最后几年也确实看到了这一点。

I'll say younger people, but I don't think it's really age-bound, are dealing with lots of social pressures, whether they sort of feel the need, obligation, guilt, whatever, of checking three or four social sites every day,

我想说，年轻人，但我认为这并不局限于年龄，他们正面临着很多社会压力，无论是感觉到需要、义务或内疚，每天要查看三四个社交网站，

balancing their family life, perhaps children having other issues with the school or social bullying, whatever it might be. Life really is coming at us pretty fast. I don't think anyone has the solution to that,

平衡家庭生活，可能孩子在学校面临问题或社交欺凌，等等。生活确实以惊人的速度向我们袭来，我不认为有人能解决这一切，

but there may be something that we can just spend a little bit more time and trying to make, and I'll say one, but it could be all of us being that one.

但也许我们可以花更多时间去尝试改善，我认为每个人都可能成为那个改变者。

Regardless of where we start from, one person's better every day from just dealing with life and a few techniques that just make things a little better.

无论我们从哪里开始，只要有些技巧能让每个人每天都比昨天好一点，那就是进步。

I know John Kirwan has clearly been a face of mental health in New Zealand and has a very vested interest in this and there are partners that he's I met up with and started to develop a little business and I'm excited to be along for the ride on that one and hopefully can share some values that at the end of the day people just perhaps feel like getting through life day to day.

我知道John Kirwan在新西兰一直是心理健康的代表，对此有着极大的兴趣，我也与他的一些合作伙伴见过面，并开始共同开发一个小项目，我很高兴能参与其中，并希望能传递一些价值观，让人们每天在生活中感到更容易坚持下去。

It's just a little easier.

生活会变得稍微容易一些。

Speaker 1:

Great. What else have you learned or do you hope to learn from working with smaller startup companies?

很好。您还从与较小的初创公司合作中学到了什么，或者希望学到什么？

Glenn Renwick:

I think the issues are the same, the magnitude and the prioritization is a little different. I didn't worry about running out of cash as much at Progressive.

我认为问题是一样的，只是在规模和优先级上有所不同。在Progressive，我不那么担心资金短缺的问题。

Small business people have to worry about cash and making sure they make good decisions of prioritization specifically on how to invest that and staying on topic, making sure they've got deliverables so that they can stay in business.

而小企业家则必须担心现金流，并确保他们在如何投资、如何确定优先事项以及保持专注方面做出明智决策，确保他们能够交付成果，从而维持业务运营。

We've talked a lot about culture in this conversation. Well, cultures sort of evolve and develop over time, but you can't wait till you're an established business to develop it.

我们在这次对话中讨论了很多关于文化的问题。文化会随着时间演变和发展，但你不能等到企业成熟后才去培养文化。

In fact, it may be many of those values are really important at the startup phase. And I think being clear about what you want to be when you grow up. Are you going to be the next, we use the classic Googles and Amazons,

事实上，许多这些价值观在初创阶段就非常重要。我认为要明确自己长大后想成为什么样的企业。你是要成为下一个，我们常说的Google或Amazon，

or are you going to develop a product that can be extraordinarily useful to companies who have distribution and business models that surround a lot of excellent products, and maybe you fit into that at some stage of your maturity.

还是你要开发一种产品，这种产品对于那些拥有完善分销和商业模式、支撑众多优秀产品的公司来说极为有用，也许在你成长的某个阶段你正好适合这种定位。

Getting clear about that, maybe not from day one, but along the way will allow you to focus on making the right decisions, and I expect I will learn even more, but I really think that people who start things from scratch,

明确这一点，可能并非从一开始就做到，但随着过程的推进会让你专注于做出正确的决策，我预期自己将会学到更多，但我真的认为那些从零开始创业的人，

it's very hard to take a big Ocean liner and turn it and that's running a big company but it's also hard to get it to start in the first place and I think that while the skills are similar there's a different emphasis at different times and I'm really looking forward to sort of learning how those skills adapt a little bit more to startups.

将一艘庞大的远洋班轮转向航行非常困难，这就是经营大公司的原因，但起步也非常艰难，我认为虽然所需技能相似，但在不同阶段会有不同侧重，我非常期待学习这些技能如何更好地适应初创公司的环境。

Speaker 1:

It's a great analogy that you gave and has it changed your perception of innovation in any way?

您给出的这个比喻很棒，它是否在某种程度上改变了您对创新的看法？

Glenn Renwick:

I don't think it's changed my perception of innovation other than startups are just less constrained. Which I love. And that's why I say that it shouldn't necessarily be, and it's not the right end game for every company.

我认为这并没有改变我对创新的看法，只不过初创公司受到的限制更少，而我正喜欢这一点。这就是为什么我说这并不一定适用于每个公司的最终目标。

That's far from the case. But in Fiserv's case, I'm not sure we could have developed some of the products that we ultimately bought and integrated nearly as well and certainly not as quickly.

情况远非如此。但就Fiserv而言，我不确定我们是否能像通过收购那样迅速且高效地开发出我们最终整合的那些产品。

As a group that was a little less constrained, it's almost like having internal incubators and that model can really advance your bigger business model very well if you're on the receiving end.

作为一个受限较少的集团，这几乎就像拥有内部孵化器，如果你处于接受这一模式的一方，它可以非常有效地推进你更大的商业模式。

But if you're one of the more incubator type environments and that's what you want to see as the trajectory, And you can develop with an endgame in mind and that's fun as well.

但如果你是那种更注重孵化的环境，并且这正是你希望看到的发展轨迹，而且你可以心中有数地开发产品，那也会很有趣。

So but just the the lack of constraint a little bit more a little less regulatory kind of oversight of something that's new to the marketplace.

所以，初创公司缺乏较多的限制，也较少受到新进入市场事物的监管约束，

Not being wed necessarily to integration, backward integration to things that have been done before. If you join a company then that becomes their problem to integrate. But just speed. Speed and market relevance and using contemporary models.

不必固守对既有事物的向后整合，如果你加入一家公司，那就成为他们需要整合的问题。而是要注重速度、市场相关性以及采用当代模式。

Updating the technology sometimes for companies, you know, we all like to talk about legacy systems and so on and so forth, but very hard to sit and rationalize why you would recode a legacy system.

更新技术对于公司来说有时非常重要，我们都喜欢谈论遗留系统等等，但很难坐下来合理解释为什么要重写一个遗留系统。

A lot of times what you do is surround it by newer technologies and make it a core that can support those newer technologies. All those things are just the benefits of smaller startups.

很多时候，你所做的是用新技术包围它，并使之成为支持这些新技术的核心。这些都是小型初创公司的优势所在。

Speaker 1:

You touched just now on incubators and more insurers are now partnering with insurtech companies in various forms. What are some common mistakes that you've seen insurtechs or insurers making when partnering?

刚才您提到了孵化器，现在越来越多的保险公司以各种形式与保险科技公司合作。您见过保险科技公司或保险公司在合作时常犯的错误有哪些？

Glenn Renwick:

I think there's probably others that have more experience on that. But from my experience, what larger companies that we're partnering with a smaller insurtech tend to do is take it and say, this is pretty good. Now let's get it modified.

我认为可能还有其他人对此经验更丰富。但根据我的经验，大公司在与小型保险科技公司合作时往往会拿来就说，“这很不错，现在让我们修改一下。”

To our way of thinking. And I have very specific examples where that is just an expensive and failed model. To think that if you do more and better due diligence up front to say,

按照我们的思路来说，我有非常具体的例子表明那只是一种昂贵且失败的模式。如果你能在前期做更多更好的尽职调查，

you know, this may be, it may not be exactly how I would have done it, or maybe based on your knowledge, but it's good. Let's take it and try to take it in its close to its current form rather than changing it.

你会发现，“这可能不是我会那样做的，也许根据你的认知，但这已经很好了。让我们保持其接近当前的形式，而不是去改变它。”

I think it's that battle to change and integrate that generally is unfulfilling for both sides because One,

我认为这种改变和整合的争斗通常对双方都不满足，因为首先，

the developer is not seeing it in its truest form or how they've envisioned it and the company that's trying to integrate it generally goes through extraordinary pains to integrate things and to modify and change and customize and so on and so forth.

开发者看不到它的真实面貌或他们所设想的样子，而试图整合的公司通常需要付出巨大的努力来整合、修改、改变和定制等等。

I just think customization can be the kiss of death. For these types of integrations the product was great. I never customized it and integrated the way it should have been done and it falls by the wayside.

我认为定制化可能是致命的。这类整合中，产品本身很棒，但我从未进行过不必要的定制，而是按应有的方式整合，否则就会半途而废。

My advice would be don't buy it if you don't think you want to use it largely the way it was designed.

我的建议是，如果你认为你不大可能按照其设计初衷来使用，就不要购买。

有洞察力的见解，已经成形的产品无论对错都已经走了很长的路。

Speaker 1:

Going back to acquisitions then, you remain on the board at United Healthcare, the world's largest healthcare health insurance company. United also acquires a lot of technology companies. Why do you think that is?

回到收购的话题，您仍在全球最大的医疗健康保险公司United Healthcare的董事会任职。United还收购了许多科技公司。您认为这是为什么？

Glenn Renwick:

Oh, I think it's very similar to the answers I've given. United Health has 325,000 employees.

哦，我认为这与我之前的回答非常相似。United Health拥有325,000名员工。

They're all busy and they're terrific and they do some incredible things internally including in the technology area but there are always startups that are looking at the market just a little bit differently.

他们都非常忙碌，非常出色，内部做了很多令人难以置信的事情，包括在技术领域，但总有一些初创公司以略微不同的视角观察市场。

That 30 degree turn of curiosity that we talked about or 90 degree turn of curiosity sometimes doesn't come from within the big company.

我们谈到的那种30度甚至90度的好奇转变，有时并不是来自大公司内部。

It may or may not be sort of something they can envision But it's hard to prioritize relative to the other activities. And it may very well be better to actually buy.

可能并非他们能够预见的东西，但相对于其他活动，很难把它排上优先级。而实际上购买可能会更好。

...and integrate than be a development arm for yourself for every single thing. Certainly there has to be a lot of internal development. No question about that.

……并进行整合，而不是让自己为每一项事情都单独开发。当然，内部开发也必须存在，这毫无疑问。

They have great knowledge, a great understanding of the marketplaces, so on and so forth. But there are opportunities that come along and they come along pretty readily where someone has done something and you go, That's great.

他们拥有丰富的知识，对市场有深刻理解，等等。但总有一些机会出现，而且非常容易出现，当有人做了某件事时，你会觉得，“这真棒。”

That is, A, if we set out to do that or something similar, it would cost a lot of money, time, and the question is, is that where you want to spend that money and time?

也就是说，如果我们着手做那样的事情或类似的事情，会花费大量金钱和时间，问题是，这是否值得花费这些钱和时间？

It's not whether or not you could do it slightly cheaper than the acquisition price. It's, is that the best use of limited resources?

关键不在于你是否能比收购价格稍微便宜地做到，而在于这是否是有限资源的最佳利用方式？

So really, people who actually develop new Variants of business models or attacks small pieces of the marketplace can be extraordinarily valuable to an integrator that wants to attack a bigger part of the marketplace.

所以，实际上，那些开发出新型商业模式或占据市场小部分的公司，对于希望切入更大市场份额的整合者来说，可能极具价值。

I think that's true for United Health.

我认为这对United Health来说同样适用。

Speaker 1:

Do you have any advice for insurance executives when it comes to working with fintech startups, technology companies in general?

对于保险高管来说，在与金融科技初创公司或科技公司合作时，您有什么建议吗？

Glenn Renwick:

I just go back to my advice. If you're going to work with them, don't try to change them. Try to see how your model and their model can integrate reasonably well.

我还是回到我的建议。如果你要与他们合作，不要试图改变他们。试着看看你的模式和他们的模式如何能够合理地整合在一起。

If it feels like it's got a lot of friction for whatever reason, not necessarily bad reasons, you're probably going to pay a multiple more than you're currently thinking when you're excited about the first look at the model.

如果感觉到双方之间存在很多摩擦，无论原因如何（不一定是坏原因），你可能最终会为此支付比最初预期高好几倍的成本。

Speaker 1:

So although you've now retired from Progressive, you're clearly still very busy with many hats on, on boards and advisory roles and teaching as well as I've learnt today. What are your goals for the future?

虽然您已经从Progressive退休，但显然您仍然非常忙碌，身兼多职，在董事会、顾问角色和教学中都有涉猎，就像我今天学到的那样。您对未来有什么目标？

Glenn Renwick:

Yeah, I still, you know, it was the right thing for me after my tenure at Progressive to hand over to someone that I had developed for another 20 years. It was a lady and so it was good and healthy, I think, for everybody.

是的，我仍然……在我结束Progressive任期后，将权力交给我培养了20多年的接班人是正确的做法。那位女士接任了，我认为这对每个人来说都是好事，健康的发展。

Not to say that you sort of ever think you get the timing right. I could have stayed longer, whatever. But I want to try. I've been very lucky. I've had people that have helped me along the way.

这并不是说你总觉得时机把握得完美。我本可以待得更久，但我希望能尝试。我非常幸运，在这一路上得到了很多人的帮助。

I've had everything from academic help to business help. So now I actually want to give back in any way that I can.

我从学术到商业各方面都得到了帮助，所以现在我真的希望能以任何方式回馈。

So I do teach a little bit at the University of Florida Engineering School and I just did a little something with an entrepreneurial entity at the University of Canterbury and hope to continue to have relationships there and the boards.

因此，我在佛罗里达大学工程学院教了一点课，也刚刚在坎特伯雷大学与一家创业实体合作了一些项目，并希望能继续在那里以及在董事会中保持联系。

And I think adding, and you've mentioned Mentemia,

而且我认为，正如你提到的Mentemia，

adding small businesses may be a very interesting opportunity to have a different point of view from sort of large-scale And seeing how that matches with small scale and knowing you don't have all the answers,

增加小型企业的参与可能为我们提供一个与大规模公司截然不同的视角，看看它如何与小规模相契合，同时认识到你并非拥有所有答案，

but you may have some that would help people gain some knowledge earlier in the development lifecycle of a business. I think we've all probably said, gee, I wish I knew then what I know now.

但你可能拥有一些可以帮助人们在企业发展生命周期早期获得知识的经验。我想我们都曾说过，“天啊，我希望当时就知道现在所知道的。”

In some sense, I'm trying to sort of see if I can play a role in advancing that a few years.

在某种意义上，我正在努力看是否能在未来几年中为这一进程发挥作用。

Speaker 1:

So that rounds off the interview. Thank you so much Glenn for taking the time and letting me pick your brain and having us into your beautiful Wanaka home.

这就结束了我们的访谈。非常感谢Glenn抽出时间，让我得以向您请教，并欢迎我们来到您美丽的Wanaka家中。

I really enjoyed that and I'm sure there are some fantastic gems of advice and interesting commentary for our viewers. Thank you.

我真心享受了这次访谈，我相信对我们的观众来说，里面有许多精彩的建议和有趣的评论。谢谢。

2020-08-19 Glenn M. Renwick.Going full circle - Growing fintechs & mental health

2020-08-19 Glenn M. Renwick.Going full circle - Growing fintechs & mental health

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