2022-06-17 Sundar Pichai.GOOG.“Reward Effort, Not Outcomes”

“You have to encourage innovation. Companies become more conservative in decision making as you grow… be okay with failure and reward effort, not outcomes.”

“你必须鼓励创新。随着公司的发展，决策变得更加保守……要接受失败，并奖励努力，而不是结果。”

In this episode of View From The Top, the podcast, CEO of Google and Alphabet, Sundar Pichai, speaks to Archana Sohmshetty, MBA ’22, about the impact of access to technology and humanity’s challenge to harness it. “When you see the appetite and the desire for people to make their lives better by gaining access to technology, that is what compels me to go beyond.” says Pichai.

在这一集《鸟瞰顶峰》播客中，Google 和Alphabet的首席执行官桑达尔·皮查（Sundar Pichai）与 MBA’22 的 Archana Sohmshetty 探讨了科技获取的影响以及人类在利用科技方面面临的挑战。“当你看到人们渴望通过获取科技来改善生活时，这正是促使我不断前行的动力。” 皮查说道。

Full Transcript 完整记录

Sundar Pichai: The desire for people to make their lives better by gaining access to technology is what couples me to go beyond.

桑达尔·皮查伊：人们希望通过获取科技来改善生活的愿望，正是激励我超越的动力。

乔布斯：Some people say, “Give the customers what they want.” But that’s not my approach，为自己做而不是为别人，这是Google的问题也是Sundar Pichai的问题。

Archana Sohmshetty: Welcome to View From The Top, The Podcast. That was Sundar Pichai, CEO of Google and Alphabet. Sundar visited Stanford Graduate School of Business as part of View From The Top, a speaker series where students, like me, sit down to interview business leaders from around the world.

阿尔恰娜·索姆谢蒂：欢迎收听《鸟瞰全局》播客节目。这是谷歌首席执行官桑达尔·皮查伊。桑达尔访问了斯坦福大学商学院，作为《鸟瞰全局》的一部分，这是一个演讲系列，学生们像我一样，坐下来采访来自世界各地的商业领袖。

I’m Archana Sohmshetty, an MBA student of the class of 2022. This year I had the pleasure of interviewing Sundar on campus. He shares the importance of rewarding effort, not outcomes; ways to lead with authenticity and putting employees first; and how gaining access to technology makes lives better around the world. You’re listening to View From The Top, The podcast.

我是 2022 年班级的 MBA 学生 Archana Sohmshetty。今年，我很荣幸在校园里采访了 Sundar。他分享了奖励努力而非结果的重要性，以真诚领导并将员工放在首位的方法，以及如何通过获得技术来改善全球生活。您正在收听《顶层视角》播客。

Archana Sohmshetty: Sundar, welcome back to Stanford.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：桑达，欢迎回到斯坦福。

Sundar Pichai: It’s great to be here, and it’s nice to be back physically with people in the room. So it’s terrific.

桑达尔·皮查伊：很高兴能在这里，也很高兴能再次与在场的人们面对面交流。所以感觉棒极了。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. And as you can tell, my classmates and I are so excited that you’re here with us today. And this conversation is extra special for me because your story hits so close to home. Like you, my dad is from south India. He is an alumnus of IIT and immigrated here about 30 years ago with grit and determination. He’s right here in the audience.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。正如你们所看到的，我和我的同学们都对你今天和我们在一起感到非常兴奋。对我来说，这次对话格外特别，因为你的故事让我感同身受。和你一样，我爸爸来自印度南部。他是印度理工学院的校友，大约 30 年前带着毅力和决心移民到这里。他就在观众席里。

Sundar Pichai: [Unintelligible] Nice to see you.

桑达尔·皮查伊：[不可理解] 很高兴见到你。

Archana Sohmshetty: He’s a role model for me, and so are you. So truly, thank you for being here.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：他是我的榜样，你也是。真的，谢谢你来到这里。

Sundar Pichai: Oh, the real pleasure is mine. It’s very nostalgic. I was just telling John I saw a volleyball court outside. Stanford was the end of my fledgling volleyball career coming here and seeing how good people there. But it’s really nice to be back.

桑达尔·皮查伊：哦，真正的快乐是我的。这让我感到非常怀旧。我刚告诉约翰，我看到外面有一个排球场。斯坦福是我初出茅庐的排球生涯的终点，来到这里看到那里的优秀人才。但能回到这里真的很不错。

Archana Sohmshetty: Lots of talent around here. And when you first became the CEO of Google, it created quite a buzz. Your Wikipedia page had over 350 edits just in the week that you became the leader. Have you seen some of these edits?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：这里有很多人才。当您首次成为谷歌的首席执行官时，引起了很大轰动。您成为领导者的那一周，您的维基百科页面就有超过 350 次编辑。您看过这些编辑中的一些吗？

Sundar Pichai: Advice I would have for all of you is don’t read about yourself online.

桑达尔·皮查伊：我给大家的建议是不要在网上阅读关于自己的信息。

Archana Sohmshetty: Well, we thought it would be a good way to start the conversation —

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：嗯，我们认为这是开始对话的好方法 —

Sundar Pichai: Uh-oh. 桑达尔·皮查伊：哦。

Archana Sohmshetty: — by revisiting some of these Wikipedia edits — some of our favorite ones with fact versus fake news, your Wikipedia page edition. First of all, someone claimed that you decided to join IIT at the young age of 8 years old. Fact or fake?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：通过重新审视一些维基百科的编辑，一些我们最喜欢的真相与假新闻，您的维基百科页面编辑。首先，有人声称您在 8 岁时决定加入印度理工学院。事实还是假的？

Sundar Pichai: Uh, I think that was fake. My parents were tired of me. They sent me to school, I think, when I was about 2 and a half to kindergarten. I was pretty young when I came to Stanford. But that is not true.

桑达尔·皮查伊：嗯，我认为那是假的。我父母厌倦了我。我想他们大约在我两岁半左右时把我送去上学幼儿园。我来斯坦福时还很年轻。但那不是真的。

Archana Sohmshetty: At the same time, everyone wanted to claim you from their hometown in high school. So there are quite a few edits to your page on which high school you came from. Where did you go?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：与此同时，每个人都想在高中时代宣称你是他们家乡的人。因此，有很多关于你是哪个高中毕业的编辑。你是哪个高中毕业的？

Sundar Pichai: There are two schools which are right, but the final school is Vana Vani, which is inside the campus where your dad went to college. So that’s where I went to school.

桑达尔·皮查伊：有两所学校是正确的，但最终的学校是瓦纳瓦尼，就在你爸爸上大学的校园里。所以那就是我上学的地方。

Archana Sohmshetty: Wow. Okay. So the person that said you were homeschooled was definitely wrong.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：哇。好的。所以说你是在家自学的那个人肯定是错的。

Sundar Pichai: I don’t think I was homeschooled unless hitting while playing cricket. I wasn’t homeschooled.

桑达尔·皮查伊：我不认为我是在打板球时上学的。我不是在家上学。

Archana Sohmshetty: Well, on that note, were you the captain of your high school cricket team?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：好吧，在这一点上，你是你高中板球队的队长吗？

Sundar Pichai: I would have loved to be, but I was quite far from it. Yeah.

桑达尔·皮查伊：我很想成为那样的人，但我离那还很远。是的。

Archana Sohmshetty: In another life. In another life.

Archana Sohmshetty：在另一个生命中。在另一个生命中。

Sundar Pichai: In another life. Yeah.

桑达尔·皮查伊：在另一个生活中。是的。

Archana Sohmshetty: So now that we have —

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：现在我们已经 -

Sundar Pichai: In the metaverses.

桑达尔·皮查伊：在元宇宙中。

Archana Sohmshetty: You’re speaking my language. So now that we have the fiction out of the way, we can turn to some of the facts. You grew up in India with limited access to technology. And when you discovered technologies, it had a profound impact on you. How did you go from an initial delight in technology to devoting to career to access to technology for all?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：你说的是我的语言。既然我们已经讨论完虚构内容，现在我们可以转向一些事实。你在印度长大，对技术的接触有限。当你发现技术时，它对你产生了深远影响。你是如何从最初对技术的喜悦转变为致力于让所有人都能接触技术的职业道路的呢？

Sundar Pichai: Growing up for me, every technology transition was very vivid, even as a kid because I had to wait a long time for it. We were on a waitlist for a rotary telephone. It took five years to be on the waitlist and get the phone. I would go to get my grandparents’ blood test results, and it would be an hour roundtrip each way. And you would go all the way to the hospital, and they would say it’s not ready today.

桑达尔·皮查伊：对我来说，成长过程中，每一次技术转变都非常清晰，即使在我还是个孩子的时候，因为我不得不等很长时间。我们曾经在旋转电话的等候名单上等了五年才拿到电话。我会去拿我祖父母的血液检测结果，每次都要花一个小时的往返时间。你会一路走到医院，他们会告诉你今天还没准备好。

Come back tomorrow. And then this phone came, and I could call, and they would tell me whether the results were ready or not. And so to me, that was super profound. And people who would come to our house to make calls. I saw how it created a sense of community. So I’ve always had this vivid sense of how technology can make a profound difference. And so a lot of what I’ve tried to do is bring that access to technology.

明天再来。然后这部手机出现了，我可以打电话，他们会告诉我结果是否已经准备好。对我来说，这是非常深刻的。来我们家打电话的人。我看到它是如何创造一种社区感的。所以我一直对技术如何产生深远影响有着生动的感觉。因此，我尝试做的很多事情就是让技术变得更加普及。

What I got, I got a lot more of it when I came to Stanford. Walking the suite all of the time and seeing rows of computers was life-changing for me. And I was very inspired by Negroponte’s One Laptop per Child project. And even today, a lot of what I’m able to do at Google, be it make cheaper phones through Android or bring the next billion people online or Chromebooks and try to make affordable laptops all hit close to that mission. Definitely.

我在斯坦福大学时得到了更多。整天走在走廊上，看到一排排的电脑，对我来说是改变生活的。尼格罗蓬特的“每个孩子一台笔记本电脑”项目让我深受启发。即使在今天，我在谷歌能做的很多事情，比如通过安卓制造更便宜的手机，让下一个十亿人上网，推出 Chromebook 并努力打造价格实惠的笔记本电脑，都与那个使命息息相关。确实。

对比乔布斯：My passion has been to build an enduring company where people were motivated to make great products. ，Sundar Pichai的这个观点看上去对的，实际上是无法自洽的，我们的大脑是所想即所得，想的是便宜就会做一些便宜的工作，想着做伟大的产品就不会想着是不是便宜。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. And I can tell the way that you speak about technology had this impact on you. And it manifested in your studies as well. You got your engineering degree from IIT and then a master’s here at Stanford in engineering and were about to pursue a career in academia and get your PhD. Clearly, that’s not the path you ended up taking. What changed your mind? Why did you decide to leave academia at the time?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。我可以感觉到你谈论技术的方式对你产生了影响。这种影响也体现在你的学业上。你在印度理工学院获得了工程学学士学位，然后在斯坦福大学获得了工程学硕士学位，本来打算在学术界发展并攻读博士学位。显然，你最终没有选择这条道路。是什么改变了你的想法？为什么当时决定离开学术界？

Sundar Pichai: I still, once in a while, have a conversation with my dad. I think I disappointed him a little bit not getting that PhD. But I literally came to Silicon Valley — for me, it was [as] literal. This was the place where semiconductors were built. I came here for the silicon in Silicon Valley. And I was a PhD student in material science. I was studying semiconductor physics and definitely that’s what I thought I would do. A few things — one is I was surrounded by other grad students who had worked on, at the time, what was the rage. It was superconductors — what was called ITC superconductors.

桑达尔·皮查伊：我偶尔还会和我爸爸聊天。我觉得我让他有点失望，没有拿到博士学位。但对我来说，我来到硅谷——对我来说，这是字面意义上的。这是半导体产业的发源地。我来这里是为了硅谷的硅。我是材料科学的博士生。我在研究半导体物理，当时我确实认为我会从事这方面的工作。有几件事——一是我周围都是研究生同学，他们当时在研究的是当时的热门话题。那时是超导体——被称为 ITC 超导体。

And I realized when you have [unintelligible], and it didn’t happen. And so that gave me pause, and I think something you all probably deal with. Being in the valley, there’s so much happening outside. There’s a lot that beckons outside. And so I was definitely interested in that. I had financial reasons to go get a job. And so the combination of all that made me go out and be in industry. And great learning moment — the semiconductor industry is extraordinarily cyclical.

当我意识到当你有[不可理解]时，事情并没有发生。这让我停下来思考，我认为这是你们所有人可能会面对的问题。身处低谷时，外面发生了很多事情。外面有很多事情在召唤。所以我对此很感兴趣。我有财务原因去找工作。所以所有这些因素的结合使我走出去并进入了这个行业。这是一个很好的学习时刻——半导体行业是非常周期性的。

In my first year at the company I worked, we hired 3,000 people, and the next year, we laid off 1,700 people. And so you get out and you go through that life learning. But that was the early days of the Internet, too. And definitely seeing what the promise the Internet had and connecting it back to what I wanted to do was what led me find my way back to Google. And I went to business school along the way — not here but another great school and eventually made it back to the valley.

在我工作的公司的第一年，我们招聘了 3,000 人，第二年，我们裁员了 1,700 人。所以你走出去，经历那种生活学习。但那也是互联网的早期时代。确实看到互联网的潜力，将其与我想做的事情联系起来，这导致我找到了回到谷歌的路。在这过程中，我去了商学院 — 不是这里，而是另一所很棒的学校，最终回到了硅谷。

始终有生存上的危机，但是能够面对现实，采取实用的路径。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. It seems like you saw the rapid change of technology outside of academia.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。看起来你在学术界之外看到了技术的快速变化。

Sundar Pichai: Oh, yeah. Stanford, it serves as a special place. Most faculty here are very — it’s a very symbiotic relationship, which I’ve always thought is unique amongst many places in the world. And so definitely both being in the campus, you get a good sense for what’s happening outside. And going to industry here, you really get the sense for the dynamism. We take it for granted, but as I travel around the world, most people outside are trying to understand how the valley works and how to do better. So it’s an extraordinary place.

桑达尔·皮查伊：哦，是的。斯坦福，它是一个特别的地方。这里的大多数教职员工都非常——这是一种非常共生的关系，我一直认为这在世界上许多地方都是独一无二的。所以在校园里，你确实能感受到外面发生的事情。在这里进入产业，你真的能感受到那种活力。我们认为这是理所当然的，但当我在世界各地旅行时，大多数外界的人都在努力理解硅谷是如何运作的，以及如何做得更好。所以这是一个非凡的地方。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. And many of us here are in a transitory period of our lives, figuring out which industry we want to go and impact. You’ve been at Google for now quite a while — 20 years — and faced several crossroads during your time. Sometimes choosing to leave an industry is as difficult as choosing to stay. What drew you to stay at Google over the past 20 years?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。我们这里的许多人正处于人生的过渡期，正在弄清楚我们想要进入并影响哪个行业。你在谷歌已经待了相当长的一段时间——20 年——在这期间面临过几次十字路口。有时候，选择离开一个行业和选择留下来一样困难。在过去的 20 年里，是什么让你选择留在谷歌？

Sundar Pichai: It’s been very busy. Partly that. And it’s an extraordinary place. I think the breadth of talent you see, the kind of projects you get exposed to — you’re on the cutting edge of everything. I’m not a surfer, but I use this analogy. I don’t know why. But it’s like I’ve tried a couple of times and failed, but it feels like surfing and being on the edge of something all the time. So definitely, I enjoy that, and a big part of it is if you look at our products, search works everywhere around the world.

Sundar Pichai：一直非常忙碌。部分原因是这样。这是一个非凡的地方。我认为你看到的人才广度，你接触到的项目种类——你总是处于一切的最前沿。我不会冲浪，但我用这个类比。我不知道为什么。但感觉就像我尝试过几次并失败了，但感觉就像冲浪，总是处于某种边缘。所以肯定，我喜欢这一点，而其中很大一部分是，如果你看看我们的产品，搜索在全球各地都能运作。

这是停留在表面的感觉，Google缺少自己的文化。

We take pride in providing it and it’s accessible to everyone, as long as they have computing and connectivity. Whether you’re here at Stanford or a kid in rural Indonesia, Google works for you. And that’s the philosophy we bring across our products, be it Gmail, be it Maps, be it YouTube. So we think about scale, being able to reach people and make technology more accessible. And it’s what I wanted to do in my life, and so it’s a privilege to do it.

我们以提供这一点为荣，并且只要他们拥有计算机和连接，每个人都可以访问它。无论您是在斯坦福还是印度尼西亚农村的孩子，Google 都为您提供服务。这是我们在产品中传达的理念，无论是 Gmail、地图还是 YouTube。因此，我们考虑规模，能够触及人们并使技术更易获得。这正是我想在我的生活中做的事情，所以能够这样做是一种特权。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. And there’s no shortage of products to work on.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。而且要处理的产品不少。

Sundar Pichai: No, there’s no shortage. Sometimes too many at Google, but that’s another story.

桑达尔·皮查伊：不，没有短缺。有时在谷歌的人太多了，但那是另一回事。

Archana Sohmshetty: One of the early products that you worked on was Chrome. You led the team and initially, there was some pushback — high development costs, competitors in the space. But you had conviction that the browser was the way to go. Where did the conviction from, and how did you convince skeptics that Chrome was the future?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：你早期参与开发的产品之一是 Chrome。你领导团队，最初遇到了一些阻力——高昂的开发成本，竞争对手众多。但你坚信浏览器是前进的方向。你是如何坚定信念的，又是如何说服怀疑者相信 Chrome 是未来的呢？

Sundar Pichai: At the time, Eric was our CEO — Eric Schmidt. And I remember him being angry once and saying — because we realized we were trying to build a browser. And he was like, do you know what it takes to build a browser? Because he had gone through the browser battles. He definitely didn’t — was hesitant for us to do it. Partly, how did I do it? I didn’t tell people for a while. I just had a small team and worked on it, and only when we had something to show — we had a chance to show the product, and that got people excited.

桑达尔·皮查伊：当时，埃里克是我们的 CEO — 埃里克·施密特。我记得有一次他很生气地说 — 因为我们意识到我们正在尝试构建一个浏览器。他说，你知道构建一个浏览器需要什么吗？因为他经历过浏览器之战。他绝对不希望我们这样做。部分原因是，我是怎么做到的？有一段时间我没有告诉别人。我只有一个小团队在做，并且只有当我们有东西可以展示时 — 我们有机会展示产品，这让人们感到兴奋。

But it is a good lesson, I think. If you have a set of committed people — passionate people — you can achieve. Even I couldn’t have foreseen what it would eventually become. But it shows the power of a small group of committed people and actually not knowing the odds of what you’re working on. So I think both helps.

但我认为这是一个很好的教训。如果你有一群忠诚的人——充满激情的人——你就能取得成功。即使我自己也没有预料到最终会变成什么样子。但这展示了一群忠诚的人的力量，实际上并不知道你所从事的工作的可能性。所以我认为两者都有帮助。

很奇怪没讲到浏览器是个显而易见非常重要又是非常正确的项目。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah And you can obviously see the direction that Chrome grew into as one of the most popular browsers today. And you really have seen Google transition from pre-IPO to the trillion-dollar company it is today. It’s challenging to scale an organization of that size. Over the years, what do you think Google has done well as it’s scaled?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的，显然你可以看到 Chrome 发展的方向，它如今是最受欢迎的浏览器之一。你确实看到了谷歌从 IPO 前到如今的万亿美元公司的转变。要让一个如此庞大的组织实现规模化是具有挑战性的。多年来，你认为谷歌在规模化方面做得如何？

Sundar Pichai: It is a complex thing, scaling a company. I would say things we have gotten right — the first thing that struck me about Google, when I joined the company, it was very different in the sense that it was a very optimistic place. So [unintelligible] place in which if you walked the hallways and you spoke to people and you had ideas, people expanded on them. Most of the times, people try to tell you why things won’t work. I felt the spirit was different. People would tell you, oh, that’s a great idea. You could do it this way, and it would be better.

桑达尔·皮查伊：扩大一家公司是一件复杂的事情。我想说我们做对的事情——当我加入谷歌时，我对谷歌的第一印象是非常不同的，因为它是一个充满乐观主义的地方。所以[无法理解]的地方，如果你走在走廊上，和人们交谈，提出想法，人们会进一步发展。大多数时候，人们会告诉你为什么事情不会奏效。我感觉这种精神是不同的。人们会告诉你，哦，那是一个好主意。你可以这样做，这样会更好。

So that struck me, that optimism — the fact that you can innovate, make things better, solve problems, I think, is a spirit I’ve tried to carry now. And it takes a lot of hard work. You have to encourage innovation. One of the counter-intuitive things is companies become more conservative as they grow. You have a lot more cash. You have a lot more resources. But companies tend to become more conservative in their decision making. And so encouraging the company to take risks and innovate and be okay with failure and reward effort, not outcomes.

所以那让我印象深刻的是，那种乐观主义——你可以创新，改善事物，解决问题，我认为，这是一种精神，我现在试图保持。这需要大量的辛勤工作。你必须鼓励创新。一个反直觉的事情是，随着公司的成长，公司变得更加保守。你有更多的现金。你有更多的资源。但公司在决策上往往变得更加保守。因此，鼓励公司承担风险，创新，接受失败，并奖励努力，而不是结果。

想法正确结果正确，过程正确结果正确，这种奇怪的念头是大脑处于自我消耗的现象。

And that’s very hard to do in an organization. People tend to reward outcomes, which means over time, the organization becomes more conservative. They take safer bets and so on. So a lot of scaling is about making sure you preserve the good things you had in the early days. And that gets harder as the company becomes bigger. You have to work harder at it. But I think a big part of what we try hard to do is to keep that culture of innovating with technology, building products, shipping things. And so that’s one of the many things.

这在一个组织中是非常困难的。人们倾向于奖励结果，这意味着随着时间的推移，组织变得更加保守。他们会选择更安全的赌注等等。因此，很多扩展工作是关于确保您保留了早期拥有的好东西。随着公司规模的扩大，这变得更加困难。您必须更加努力地工作。但我认为我们努力做的一件重要事情是保持以技术创新、产品开发和产品交付为文化。这是其中的众多要点之一。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. And maintaining that culture as the company grows is not easy. It’s a difficult endeavor. What were some of the other kind of growing pains that you’ve seen Google have over the last couple of years?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。随着公司的发展，保持这种文化并不容易。这是一项艰巨的努力。在过去几年中，您看到谷歌遇到的其他成长烦恼有哪些？

Sundar Pichai: Definitely a lot. When you’re a small company — think about the size of the business school. All of you have shared context. You understand better what others are going through, and so you have better context around everything that’s going on. A larger company definitely gets harder. And Google was built on everyone — it’s a very open culture, even today. One of the most common things people tell me when they come from other companies is they’re shocked at how transparent the company is. You have literally access to what’s happening across the company.

桑达尔·皮查伊：绝对很多。当你是一家小公司时——想想商学院的规模。你们所有人都有共享的背景。你更好地理解其他人正在经历的事情，因此你对正在发生的一切有更好的背景。一家更大的公司肯定会变得更难。谷歌建立在每个人之上——这是一个非常开放的文化，即使在今天也是如此。当人们从其他公司来时，他们告诉我的最常见的事情之一是他们对公司的透明度感到震惊。你确实可以访问公司内发生的一切。

But it can be overwhelming, and just because you have transparency doesn’t mean you have context. It’s very different from when organizations are smaller. So that’s been a big part of trying to figure out how to scale up the company. How do you organize more independently? Coordinate only when needed but can have more parts of the company move as smaller units. And that’s a hard balance to get right.

但这可能会让人不知所措，仅仅因为你有透明度并不意味着你有上下文。这与组织规模较小时非常不同。因此，这一直是努力寻找如何扩大公司规模的重要部分。如何更独立地组织？只在需要时协调，但可以让公司的更多部分像较小的单位一样运作。这是一个很难把握正确平衡的问题。

对不受控制有心理上的恐惧，这是因为缺少更接近本质的思想。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. And now you’re at the helm of Google, and you see all of these teams working in different directions. But one thing that you’ve been vocal about and enthusiastic about is AI. You’ve said AI is the most important thing humanity has ever worked on, and many of us will go on to work with AI or advanced computing in some form. How should we be thinking about AI to help humanity versus harm humanity?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。现在你掌舵谷歌，看到所有这些团队朝不同方向努力。但你一直对人工智能充满热情并大声说出来。你说人工智能是人类有史以来最重要的事情，我们中的许多人将继续与人工智能或高级计算以某种形式合作。我们应该如何思考人工智能如何帮助人类而不是伤害人类？

Sundar Pichai: It’s a great question. When I became CEO, one of the biggest directional changes we made is we’re going to approach everything as AI first. And we are applying it across everything we do in the company. It’s a big part of the R&D we spend. And the progress is palpable every year. It’s exciting. There’s a lot of progress. I think we concretely see the evidence of — just when you look at the scale at which translation works — or in search, how we use AI, or in Gmail, when you type, and you give suggestions. It’s applied all our products, and we can see the path by which we are making things better.

桑达尔·皮查伊：这是一个很好的问题。当我成为 CEO 时，我们做出的最大方向性变化之一是我们将以人工智能为先。我们正在将其应用于公司的所有业务。这是我们在研发上投入的重要部分。每年的进展都是明显的。这是令人兴奋的。有很多进步。我认为我们可以明确地看到证据 - 当你看翻译工作的规模时 - 或者在搜索中，我们如何使用人工智能，或者在 Gmail 中，当你输入时，会给出建议。它应用于我们所有的产品，我们可以看到我们正在使事情变得更好的路径。

跟心理状态匹配的行为，有可能是幻觉也有可能是真的，是幻觉的可能性较高。

I think it will profoundly transform pretty much every sector. You see the potential in areas like healthcare. I think it’ll still take a decade for it to fully play out, but we definitely see the potential. I think your question of how do you make sure we develop it in a way — I think the essential struggle of humanity with every technology is harnessing it so that it benefits society. You can see the same debates about the Internet, even before you think about AI.

我认为它将深刻地改变几乎每个领域。你可以看到在医疗保健等领域的潜力。我认为它仍需要十年的时间才能完全发挥作用，但我们确实看到了潜力。我认为你提出的问题是如何确保我们以一种方式发展它 — 我认为人类与每一项技术的基本挑战是利用它使之造福社会。你可以看到关于互联网的相同争论，甚至在考虑人工智能之前。

Has the Internet been a force of good? Obviously. Has it had effects which we didn’t fully anticipate? Yes. And that’s the debate, and we are working about how best to address it. With AI, I think we need to think about it earlier. So part of how we are approaching — we have clearly articulated publicly a set of AI principles and publicly stated it. And we publish a lot of research. We open-source technology. But that’s only part of the problem. I think academic institutions need to play a big role.

互联网是一股善的力量吗？显然是。它是否产生了我们没有完全预料到的影响？是的。这就是争论的焦点，我们正在努力找出最佳解决方案。对于人工智能，我认为我们需要更早地考虑这个问题。因此，我们正在采取的方式之一是，我们已经公开明确表达了一套人工智能原则，并公开宣布了这一点。我们发布了大量研究成果。我们开源技术。但这只是问题的一部分。我认为学术机构需要发挥重要作用。

善恶是相对概念，总是同时出现，比如，这是个大西瓜，这句话的意思是有小一点的西瓜，大小和善恶一样不是事实，是相互比较的结果，处于自我消耗的大脑喜欢这样的想法。

We were a founding member for Stanford’s AI institute — HAI — and proud to be a supporter there. I think they’re doing terrific work. But I think academic institutions, nonprofits, and the public-private partnership — government will end up having a role. There has to be thoughtful regulation about AI. You have to get the balance right so that there is innovation. But I think it’s important to think it through earlier than other technologies. And so doing it and engaging all the stakeholders is the only way I can think of approaching it.

我们是斯坦福人工智能研究所（HAI）的创始成员，很自豪能成为那里的支持者。我认为他们正在做出了了不起的工作。但我认为学术机构、非营利组织和公私合作伙伴关系——政府最终会发挥作用。对人工智能必须进行深思熟虑的监管。你必须找到平衡点，以促进创新。但我认为比其他技术更重要的是提前考虑。因此，与所有利益相关者合作是我能想到的唯一途径。

Archana Sohmshetty: So it seems like it’s a living, breathing framework that evolves as AI also evolves.

Archana Sohmshetty：看起来它就像是一个活生生的框架，随着人工智能的发展而不断演变。

Sundar Pichai: That’s right. And it needs to involve many people from many different institutions to make it work.

桑达尔·皮查伊：是的。这需要许多来自不同机构的人参与才能使其运转。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. I want to touch on your point on being forward about technology and thinking about the benefits and harms as we’re building it. In a post-COVID world, many of us have realized the importance of human connection, and we crave human connection. Yet sometimes technology can breed disconnection. How are you thinking about the future of quality connections with each other as technology becomes a larger part of our lives?

Archana Sohmshetty：是的。我想谈谈你提到的关于技术的前瞻性以及在构建技术时考虑其利弊的观点。在后 COVID 世界，我们许多人意识到人际关系的重要性，渴望人际关系。然而，有时技术可能导致疏远。随着技术在我们生活中变得更加重要，你如何考虑我们之间质量连接的未来？

这个问题提的不错，但回答的质量很一般，目前看到的材料中数张一鸣的理解更接近本质，就是降低噪音，这个世界充满了低质量的信息，绝大部分是噪音。

Sundar Pichai: Technology’s an enabler. Ultimately, it’s people in society — we have to organize around how we use technology. I think you’re raising a very important point and thinking through about how technology is not isolating or immersive in a way in which it prevents you from engaging, I think, generally is a good topic. I think all of us who have kids worry about it and struggle about it. I did like when our son started playing in the middle school band. It’s what you want to see them do more of. But every generation always is very worried about technology of the future.

Sundar Pichai：技术是一种促进因素。最终，社会中的人们——我们必须围绕如何使用技术进行组织。我认为您提出了一个非常重要的观点，并且思考技术如何不是孤立的或沉浸式的，以一种阻止您参与的方式，我认为，总的来说是一个很好的话题。我认为所有有孩子的人都会担心这个问题并为此挣扎。当我们的儿子开始在中学乐队演奏时，我很高兴。这是你希望看到他们做更多的事情。但每一代人都非常担心未来的技术。

It’s always been true when you look back at it. And so I think that’s part of the process. Technology done correctly can enable interactions in the real world. One of the companies we spun out of Google, which was Niantic, did precisely that with Pokémon and got people to move about and do stuff in the real world, which I found inspiring. But I think over time, part of — even if we augmented reality right, today, when you see people on their phones walking on the streets immersed, you see that in some ways technology forces you to engage with it. It hasn’t adapted enough to how humans live life.

这一直是真实的，当你回顾它时。所以我认为这是过程的一部分。正确使用技术可以促进现实世界中的互动。我们从谷歌分拆出来的一家公司，即 Niantic，就是用精准的方式做到了这一点，通过《精灵宝可梦》让人们在现实世界中移动并做事情，这让我感到鼓舞。但我认为随着时间的推移，即使我们今天正确地增强现实，当你看到人们沉浸在手机上走在街上时，你会发现在某种程度上技术迫使你与之互动。它还没有足够适应人类生活的方式。

And so part of solving more natural ways by which you can interact with computing — be it [unintelligible] computing, understanding what you’re looking at — may actually help us do this better. Done wrongly, it can be even more isolating. But done correctly with the right attributes, I think it can help bridge that gap. And so I think’s a potential for AR if done correctly.

因此，通过更自然的方式解决与计算互动的问题的一部分可能会帮助我们更好地做到这一点，无论是处理计算，理解你正在看的东西。如果做错了，可能会导致更大的隔离。但是，如果具备正确的属性，我认为它可以帮助弥合这种差距。因此，我认为如果做得正确，增强现实有潜力。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. So it’s thinking in advance about the implications and then being there as the technology develops.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。因此，这是提前考虑到影响并随着技术的发展而存在。

Sundar Pichai: That’s right.

桑达尔·皮查伊：没错。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. I want to take a step back and look at Google more as a whole. Some of the biases we’ve talked about with AI but more broadly, what goes on with Google’s culture? In 2018, employees staged a walkout for women’s rights. In 2020, Google was accused of mishandling the treatment of minorities on the Ethical AI team. To start us off, as these events were happening, what was going through your head? What was your reaction?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。我想退一步看待谷歌作为一个整体。我们谈到了一些关于人工智能的偏见，但更广泛地说，谷歌的文化是怎样的？2018 年，员工为了妇女权利举行了示威。2020 年，谷歌被指责在道德人工智能团队处理少数族裔问题上出现失误。在这些事件发生时，你当时在想什么？你的反应是什么？

Sundar Pichai: One of the fortunate things I felt — like most companies, from day one, Google has had a strong employee voice. And for me as a CEO running a large company, I always found it helpful because you trust your employees to get it right at scale. So I viewed it as a strength of the company when employees speak up. I think it’s important for us to take it seriously. The walkout was a moment when the company hadn’t gotten something right, and that’s what the walkout was about. So internalizing it, acknowledging it, owning up to it, and committing on making the company better is how you approach those moments.

桑达尔·皮查伊：我感到幸运的一件事是——像大多数公司一样，从一开始，谷歌就拥有强大的员工发声权。作为一家大公司的首席执行官，我总是觉得这很有帮助，因为你相信你的员工能够在规模上做对。所以当员工发声时，我视之为公司的一种优势。我认为我们应该认真对待这一点。抗议活动是公司没有做对某事的时刻，这就是抗议活动的原因。所以内化、承认、担当并致力于使公司变得更好是你应对这些时刻的方式。

And even today, I think employee input is something, as a company, we value deeply. And I would argue they push the company to be better across all the things we do. It is complex, as I said earlier. The context around some of these decisions are always hard, and at scale, not everyone has the full context. But for what it’s worth, I’ve personally always felt one of the strengths of the company — and when it comes to getting AI right or doing things at scale and getting it right — we do it in many countries around the world, and I still today take great comfort in knowing that our employees deeply are guardians of our values. And we’ll do everything to get it right.

即使在今天，我认为员工的意见是我们作为公司深刻重视的事情。我会认为他们推动公司在我们所做的一切事情上变得更好。正如我之前所说，这是复杂的。围绕某些决定的背景总是很困难，并且在规模上，并非每个人都拥有完整的背景。但就价值而言，我个人始终认为公司的优势之一是——当涉及到正确运用人工智能或在规模上做正确的事情时——我们在世界各地做到了这一点，直到今天我仍然对知道我们的员工深深地守护着我们的价值观感到非常安心。我们将尽一切努力做到正确。

价值观足够正确的话就会少一些这样的担心。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. And I guess these past events help inform the future decision making of Google. How are you thinking about promoting DE&I — diversity, equity, and inclusion — at Google moving forward?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。我想这些过去的事件有助于指导谷歌未来的决策。您如何考虑在未来推动谷歌的多样性、公平和包容性（DE&I）？

Sundar Pichai: One of the most important moments as a company we’ve been through — and I think many companies around the world — was the racial equity moment around the murder of George Floyd. As a company, for us, it was a profound moment internally. I’ve never seen anything affect the company that much in the 16 years. We publicly committed to a — I consulted and worked with our Black leadership advisory group in the company. And understanding most of the company wanted to do the right thing, tapping on the moment, and converting it into lasting commitment.

Sundar Pichai：作为一家公司，我们经历过的最重要时刻之一——我认为全球许多公司也是如此——是在乔治·弗洛伊德之死引发的种族平等时刻。对我们公司而言，这是一个深刻的内部时刻。在过去的 16 年里，我从未见过任何事情对公司产生如此大的影响。我们公开承诺——我与公司的黑人领导咨询小组进行了磋商和合作。了解到大多数公司希望做正确的事情，抓住这一时刻，并将其转化为持久的承诺。

Google的AI做的不如chatGPT也是因为这个原因，这种自我消耗的力量会发展到哪种程度？

So we have publicly committed to a set of initiatives, and we are holding ourselves accountable. We give transparency reports on how we are making progress on that. And be it committing to improving our leadership representation from underrepresented groups, be it committing to driving improvements in our products — last year in Pixel — in our camera technology — we launched Real Tone, a more inclusive way to capture pictures to cover all skin tones.

因此，我们已经公开承诺一系列倡议，并且我们正在对自己负责。我们会公布透明度报告，展示我们在这方面取得进展的情况。无论是承诺改善我们领导团队中代表性不足群体的比例，还是致力于改进我们的产品——去年在 Pixel 产品中——在我们的相机技术上——我们推出了 Real Tone，这是一种更具包容性的拍照方式，可以涵盖所有肤色。

These are all examples of how you can use technology to make progress here. Scaling and giving more people access to technology, particularly in underrepresented groups — these are all commitments we have made, and that’s one part of how we work through moments like those.

这些都是您可以利用技术在这里取得进展的示例。扩大规模，让更多人能够接触技术，特别是在代表性不足的群体中——这些都是我们已经做出的承诺，这是我们在处理这类时刻的一部分方式。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. So it seems like you’re taking a technological approach as well as an empathetic approach, listening to your employees, hearing what they have to say. What’s top of mind for employees right now is the future of work. You recently released your future of work plan for Google employees. And I can imagine you’re balancing a lot of perspectives that are competing. How did you integrate competing preferences when crafting your Future of Work plan?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。看起来你采取了技术方法和共情方法，倾听员工的意见。员工目前最关心的是工作的未来。您最近发布了 Google 员工的未来工作计划。我可以想象您在平衡许多相互竞争的观点。在制定未来工作计划时，您是如何整合竞争性偏好的？

Sundar Pichai: For me, for what it’s worth, I am incredibly excited about this next phase of the future of work. And I think 20 years ago, Google was kind of — it’s now done so much around the valley, people take it for granted. But Google did rethink what workspaces could be. They thought workspaces could be fun. We had slides in our offices. We changed workplaces pretty radically. We gave people a lot of agency — our employees had a lot of agency. It felt fun to be in the offices, and we didn’t think that was at odds with being productive. So the sense of creating community, fostering creativity in the workplace, collaboration all makes you a better company.

Sundar Pichai：对我来说，不管价值如何，我对工作未来的下一个阶段感到非常兴奋。我认为 20 年前，谷歌在硅谷周围做了很多事情，人们认为理所当然。但是谷歌重新思考了工作空间可以是什么样子。他们认为工作空间可以很有趣。我们的办公室里有滑梯。我们对工作场所进行了相当彻底的改变。我们赋予员工很大的自主权。在办公室里感觉很有趣，我们认为这并不妨碍工作效率。因此，营造社区、促进工作场所的创造力、协作都会让公司变得更好。

I view giving flexibility to people the same way. To be very clear, I do think we strongly believe in in-person connections. But I think we can achieve that in a more purposeful way and give employees, again, more agency and flexibility. So I think hybrid work is great. We’re going to leverage the scale of the company. We have many locations around the world, so people can move to other places and work.

我对给予人们灵活性的看法也是如此。非常明确地说，我确实认为我们坚决相信面对面的联系。但我认为我们可以以更有目的的方式实现这一点，并再次给予员工更多的自主权和灵活性。因此，我认为混合工作很棒。我们将利用公司的规模。我们在世界各地有许多地点，因此人们可以搬到其他地方工作。

We are starting with a 3-2 hybrid option, but we have encouraged employees to apply to be fully remote as well, and we have supported 85 percent of those applications. So I’m excited. You earlier asked about diversity. One of the best ways we can now approach diversity is actually showing up in places where diverse talent is. More importantly, when we get that talent, them being in communities which have the supporting structure for them.

我们从 3-2 混合选项开始，但我们鼓励员工申请完全远程工作，我们支持了 85％的申请。所以我很兴奋。您之前问到多样性。我们现在可以处理多样性的最佳方式之一实际上是出现在多样化人才所在的地方。更重要的是，当我们获得这些人才时，他们所在的社区具有支持结构。

And so we are now in Atlanta, in Chicago, in D.C. recruiting employees. I think being able to support the participation of women in the workforce — I think the flexibility is going to be a huge asset. So I’m excited by it, and I find when people come back — and people are very excited to come back to the office, by the way. It has to be opened up. We are easily at over 70 percent already back to our pre-pandemic presence in the offices, and it’s growing. But giving people that choice — it always bothered me that the stress around commutes or when people had parent-teacher conferences or doctor appointments — balancing all that, there’s a lot of stress which people are carrying.

所以我们现在在亚特兰大、芝加哥、华盛顿招聘员工。我认为支持妇女参与劳动力市场的能力——我认为灵活性将是一个巨大的优势。所以我对此感到兴奋，我发现当人们回来时——顺便说一句，人们非常兴奋地回到办公室。必须开放。我们已经有超过 70%的员工回到了疫情前的办公室，而且这个比例还在增长。但给人们选择的机会——我一直觉得通勤带来的压力或者当人们需要参加家长会或看医生时——平衡这一切，人们承受了很大的压力。

So I think it gives us a chance to rethink. Also it’s a technology, since we build products like Gmail, Docks, Meet, and so on, it gives a chance to rethink products, too, and make it all work better. I think it’s one of the most exciting things that’s happening in the workforce, and I think you’ll see the benefits of it over time.

所以我认为这给了我们重新思考的机会。而且这是一项技术，因为我们开发像 Gmail、Docks、Meet 等产品，它也给了重新思考产品的机会，并使所有工作更加顺畅。我认为这是工作中最令人兴奋的事情之一，我认为随着时间的推移，你会看到它的好处。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. Absolutely. It seems like you’re emphasizing intentionality and flexibility when it comes to hybrid work. And your plans really do set the stage for other companies in Silicon Valley and beyond. So we’re all looking to you and your leadership for guidance on things like this. You also recently just got back from Warsaw. You were helping out with the Ukraine refugee crisis. When is it appropriate for corporations to step in on public issues like Ukraine/Russia?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。绝对是这样。在混合工作方面，您似乎强调了故意性和灵活性。您的计划确实为硅谷及其他地方的公司树立了榜样。因此，我们都期待您和您的领导在这类事情上给予指导。您最近刚从华沙回来。您正在帮助解决乌克兰难民危机。对于像乌克兰/俄罗斯这样的公共问题，何时适合让企业介入？

Sundar Pichai: Well, first of all, for us, we are directly involved because both — we have employees in Ukraine and Russia. Our products work in these regions. Being an information company, at moments like this, it’s really critical for us to get these moments right. So we approach it a few ways — foremost, the safety of our employees, like every other organization — making sure employees are safe.

桑达尔·皮查伊：首先，对我们来说，我们直接参与其中，因为我们在乌克兰和俄罗斯都有员工。我们的产品在这些地区运作。作为一家信息公司，在这样的时刻，对我们来说非常关键，我们必须做对。因此，我们采取了几种方式——首要是确保员工的安全，就像其他组织一样——确保员工安全。

Second, very critical for us is getting access to information right, tackling misinformation, removing what we felt were propaganda information and raising what we do in search and YouTube — at moments like that is raising higher quality information, including providing information within Russia at moments like this. It’s been a large part of the work we do, launching important things like air raid alerts on Google Maps in Ukraine.

其次，对我们非常关键的是准确获取信息，解决错误信息，清除我们认为是宣传信息的内容，并提升我们在搜索和 YouTube 上的内容——在这样的时刻提升更高质量的信息，包括在俄罗斯国内提供信息。这已经成为我们工作的重要部分，推出像在乌克兰的谷歌地图上发布空袭警报等重要事项。

Being in Warsaw, one of the things that struck me — and it’s true for pretty much everyone there — an average Google employee had two to three refugee families with them. These are mainly women and children. People don’t speak the same language all the time — people using Google Translate on their phones to communicate so we had to do a sprint to get the language translation working right.

在华沙，让我印象深刻的一件事情是——这几乎对每个人都适用——一个普通的谷歌员工会带着两到三个难民家庭。这些主要是妇女和儿童。人们并不总是说同样的语言——他们使用手机上的谷歌翻译来交流，所以我们不得不加快速度确保语言翻译正常运作。

We opened up a portion of our space to NGOs as well as entrepreneurs from Ukraine. And more importantly, we committed to investing in Poland. So we announced a $700 million investment, both in office space and to hire more people in Poland. And we’re commit to investing in central and eastern Europe at this pivotal time. But I think definitely, the war shows how much we have to continue fighting for, and so it’s an important moment to get right.

我们向乌克兰的非政府组织和企业家开放了我们空间的一部分。更重要的是，我们承诺在波兰进行投资。因此，我们宣布了 7 亿美元的投资，既用于办公空间，也用于在波兰雇佣更多人。在这个关键时刻，我们致力于在中欧和东欧进行投资。但我认为，战争确实显示了我们必须继续为之奋斗的事情有多重要，因此现在是一个重要时刻。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. It’s incredible to see corporations like Google committing time, resources, financial investment and technology to causes like this. And I’m personally in awe of how many causes that you are invested in. Apart from Ukraine/Russia, you also have announced plans recently in investment in Africa in things like job skills training for low-to-middle income folks. More broadly, how do you choose which causes you want to invest your time and effort into?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。看到像谷歌这样的公司投入时间、资源、财务投资和技术支持这样的事业，真是令人难以置信。我个人对你们投资的众多事业感到敬畏。除了乌克兰/俄罗斯之外，你们最近还宣布了在非洲投资的计划，例如为低至中等收入人群提供工作技能培训。更广泛地说，你们如何选择要投入时间和精力的事业呢？

Sundar Pichai: It’s a great question. With the company and its scale, there’s a lot of things that come your way. I think you have to be disciplined about where you think Google can make a difference and what is a unique perspective or value proposition you can bring to the table. And over time, we have understood things we can do well, and things other organizations are better at doing. An area, for example, given our focus on information — skilling has been a big focus for us — digital skilling.

桑达尔·皮查伊：这是一个很好的问题。随着公司规模的扩大，会有很多事情涌向你。我认为你必须要有纪律，明确谷歌可以产生影响的领域，以及你能为其带来什么独特的观点或价值主张。随着时间的推移，我们已经了解到我们能做好的事情，以及其他组织更擅长的事情。例如，鉴于我们对信息的关注，技能培训一直是我们的重点——数字技能。

这是关键性的重点，看着跟前面的思想有心理上的冲突。

I think there is no substitute for college but unfortunately, not everyone has access to and can afford to go to college. So skilling people — giving them access to digital skills — has been a big push. In the U.S., we launched a career certificate program. It’s a nine-month program. We’ve done it on four major areas, and we back it up with working with employers to recruit people.

我认为大学是无法替代的，但不幸的是，并非每个人都有机会并且负担得起上大学。因此，培训人才——为他们提供数字技能的机会——已经成为一个重要推动力。在美国，我们推出了职业证书项目。这是一个为期九个月的项目。我们在四个主要领域开展了这项工作，并与雇主合作招募人才。

不是因为大学，有自我能自我更新的没有大学照样学到自己想要学的东西。

And it’s been extraordinarily successful. 75,000 people have gone through it, and almost 50 percent of it is from underrepresented groups. And when I look at the demand there is from people for these things, I think as a society we need to figure out about how we can scale and give access to digital skilling to more people. But that’s an area where we feel Google can strongly contribute. And so we choose and get involved in areas like that — sustainability is another one, so we choose where we think we can add value.

它取得了非凡的成功。已有 75,000 人参与其中，其中近 50％来自代表性不足的群体。当我看到人们对这些事物的需求时，我认为作为一个社会，我们需要想办法扩大规模，让更多人获得数字技能。但这是一个我们认为谷歌可以大力贡献的领域。因此，我们选择并参与这样的领域 - 可持续发展是另一个领域，所以我们选择我们认为可以增加价值的领域。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. So it seems like you look at your strengths and then look at what impact you can make based off of your strengths and pursue those issues.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。看起来你要看自己的优势，然后根据自己的优势考虑可以产生什么影响，然后追求那些问题。

这句话Sundar Pichai的心理状态不相符，看着只能做到表面上的模仿。

Sundar Pichai: That’s right

桑达尔·皮查伊：没错

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. And you touched on this briefly but sustainability — a couple of years ago, you announced this lofty goal of being carbon neutral at Google by 2030. And you have to unify many business units and product lines to achieve this goal. How are you going about getting the whole company to rally behind a goal of sustainability?

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。你稍微提到了这一点，但可持续性——几年前，你宣布了谷歌在 2030 年实现碳中和的宏伟目标。你必须统一许多业务部门和产品线来实现这一目标。你是如何让整个公司团结起来支持可持续性目标的？

Sundar Pichai: One of the important things — and if I could clarify one thing because it’s subtle and people — we’ve been carbon neutral since 2007. So Google has been carbon neutral since 2007 and one of the earliest companies to do so. Sustainability has long been an important goal. What we have now committed is by 2030 to be carbon-free — so not using offsets but actually running our operations 24/7 carbon-free. That is a hard challenge because today we can use offsets.

桑达尔·皮查伊：其中一件重要的事情——如果我可以澄清一件事，因为这是微妙的，人们——我们自 2007 年以来一直是碳中和的。因此，谷歌自 2007 年以来一直是碳中和的，是最早采取这种做法的公司之一。可持续发展长期以来一直是一个重要目标。我们现在承诺到 2030 年实现零碳排放——因此不使用抵消措施，而是实际上让我们的运营 24/7 零碳排放。这是一个艰巨的挑战，因为今天我们可以使用抵消措施。

And that involves investing in developing new technologies beyond wind and solar, be it carbon capture, how do you store energy, and to do it around the world. But it excites us because it’s a lot of R&D again, and you can apply technology. And when we bought some of the earliest wind and solar contracts in 2010, and costs have fallen by 85 percent in the last 10 years. And so, again, looking at these new technologies, we just have a whole data center now up and running with geothermal.

这涉及到投资于开发风能和太阳能之外的新技术，无论是碳捕集，如何储存能源，以及在全球范围内实施。但这让我们兴奋，因为这又是大量的研发，你可以应用技术。当我们在 2010 年购买了一些最早的风能和太阳能合同时，成本在过去 10 年已经下降了 85%。因此，再次看这些新技术，我们现在刚刚建成并运行了一个地热数据中心。

And so tapping into new technologies and we want to bootstrap it and help drive the technology and the cost curve over the next decade so that we can reach there. But it’s a challenge. It stresses us out. But I’m incredibly excited as a technologist, the chance to make progress like that.

因此，利用新技术，我们希望启动它，并帮助推动未来十年的技术和成本曲线，以便我们能够达到那里。但这是一个挑战。这让我们感到有压力。但作为一名技术专家，我对能够取得这样的进展感到非常兴奋。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. None of these big initiatives were asked of you and asked of Google. These are things that you as a company and you as a leader have decided to take on. The theme for our slate of speakers this year is Beyond Expectations. So we’d love to hear what motivates you to go above and beyond what is expected of a business leader.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。这些重大举措都不是要求你或谷歌采取的。这些是你作为一家公司和作为一名领导者决定承担的事情。今年我们演讲嘉宾的主题是超越期望。因此，我们很想听听您是什么激励您超越业务领导者所期望的。

Sundar Pichai: I would tie it back to the first question, at least in the context of the work I do. I travel around the world, and I still today — particularly when you go into emerging markets, it’s a very different view from here. You see how eager people are to get access to technology because they understand how it will make their lives better, so you see it, you feel it when I go to Vietnam or India or Africa. And there’s a lot more work to be done.

桑达尔·皮查伊：我想把它与第一个问题联系起来，至少在我所做的工作背景下。我环游世界，直到今天我仍然——特别是当你进入新兴市场时，这与这里的情况大不相同。你会看到人们是多么渴望获得科技，因为他们明白这将如何改善他们的生活，所以当我去越南、印度或非洲时，你会看到这一点，感受到这一点。还有很多工作要做。

And just in India recently, we are working on a cheaper high-quality smartphone, maybe around the $30 price point. And last week, we just announced in Africa — our product development center in Nairobi hiring engineers, UX designers, and so on. When you see the appetite and the desire for people to make their lives better by gaining access to technology, that’s what compels me to go beyond, and I think it’s very consistent with what our company has set out to do.

最近在印度，我们正在研发一款更便宜的高质量智能手机，可能售价在 30 美元左右。上周，我们刚刚宣布在非洲——内罗毕的产品开发中心正在招聘工程师、用户体验设计师等。当你看到人们渴望通过科技获取更好生活的欲望时，这促使我不断前行，我认为这与我们公司既定的目标非常一致。

Archana Sohmshetty: Yeah. I can tell how much intentionality you have behind all the initiatives within Google and externally, so truly, thank you so much for giving us a framework and ideas behind how you make decisions that we can take away from here. With that, we do have student questions, so we can turn it over.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：是的。我可以感受到你在谷歌内部和外部所有倡议背后的意图有多强烈，所以真的非常感谢你为我们提供了一个决策框架和想法，让我们可以从中获益。有了这个，我们确实有学生提问，所以我们可以开始了。

Melissa Zhang: Hi Sundar. My name is Melissa Zhang, and I was a former Tapestry employee, so great to meet you. My question is going forward to the year 2030, in what capacity do you see Alphabet partnering the most with governments? And this can be from tech access to grids to search. And what will make you most feel proud of getting right?

张梅莉莎：嗨，桑达尔。我叫张梅莉莎，曾是一名 Tapestry 员工，很高兴见到你。我的问题是，展望到 2030 年，您认为 Alphabet 在与政府合作方面将发挥何种作用？这可能涉及技术获取、网格或搜索等方面。您认为做对了什么会让您感到最自豪？

Sundar Pichai: The second part is — I do think sustainability is going to be the defining issue for us to get right in the next decade or so. So we are definitely committing Alphabet seriously. Just to get to a carbon-free goal would involve billions of dollars in incremental investment from us, but we think it’s the right thing to do. It’ll be good for us as a business, I think, over time. But I think that is something I want us to be able to get right, and I think definitely something we’d be proud of if we can get there. The first question — I presume you’re asking by 2030, how do you see us engaging with governments and so on.

桑达尔·皮查伊：第二部分是——我认为可持续性将是我们在未来十年左右要正确处理的关键问题。因此，我们绝对认真地承诺Alphabet。仅仅实现零碳目标就需要我们数十亿美元的增量投资，但我们认为这是正确的做法。我认为，随着时间的推移，这对我们作为企业将是有利的。但我希望我们能够做到这一点，我认为如果我们能够做到这一点，那绝对是我们会为之自豪的事情。第一个问题——我猜你是在问到 2030 年，你认为我们将如何与政府等进行互动。

One of the bigger, more profound changes underway is I think technology is going to be a regulated industry. And part of as a company working at scale is anticipating, working constructively with regulators — because I think at the end of the day, technology affects citizens. And so every country is going to be thinking about this deeply. Take Europe’s GDPR as an example. It’s an important foundational privacy legislation.

正在进行的一项更大、更深刻的变革之一是我认为技术将成为一个受监管的行业。作为一家规模化运营的公司的一部分，我们要预见并与监管机构进行建设性合作，因为我认为，技术最终会影响到公民。因此，每个国家都将深入思考这个问题。以欧洲的《通用数据保护条例》为例。这是一项重要的基础性隐私立法。

And I think we had to anticipate it. We invested almost 18 months of work to get ready for it. And I think it’s given certainty to both European citizens — it gives businesses certainty about how to operate, so that’s one example of legislation working. And so we would expect to be constructively working with governments around the world. Archana mentioned AI, and I think that’s going to be important for us to get right, and I think governments will end up playing a key role in that timeframe.

我认为我们必须预见到这一点。我们投入了将近 18 个月的工作来做好准备。我认为这给了欧洲公民以确定性——它给了企业确定性，让他们知道如何运营，这就是立法发挥作用的一个例子。因此，我们期望与世界各国政府进行建设性合作。Archana 提到了人工智能，我认为这对我们来说非常重要，我认为政府最终将在这个时间框架内发挥关键作用。

Shanice: Hi Sundar. I’m Shanice. Thank you for being here. Yesterday, we had the privilege of having Barack Obama on campus. And he spoke about how changes in the way we communicate and consume information has a massive impact on our democracy. So while Google is not a social media company, I’m curious to know what you see Google’s role in that debate is.

山尼斯：嗨，桑达尔。我是山尼斯。感谢你在这里。昨天，我们有幸邀请到巴拉克·奥巴马来校园演讲。他谈到了我们沟通和获取信息方式的变化对我们的民主产生了巨大影响。虽然谷歌不是社交媒体公司，我很想知道你认为谷歌在这场辩论中扮演的角色是什么。

Sundar Pichai: First of all, I think it was an important speech, and I think it’s something we think about deeply. It’s in our stated mission. And if you think about search, this is what we are trying to do for every query. We are trying to sort what is higher quality information. And so it cuts to the essence of what we do. In YouTube, we brought the same principles. Such a complex topic — maybe I can answer it with an example. It’s actually easier to do this as a company when society agrees on an area. So when there has been society [converges and agree]. You can see that happening in the context of the war — Russia/Ukraine.

桑达尔·皮查伊：首先，我认为这是一次重要的演讲，我认为这是我们深思熟虑的事情。这是我们明确的使命。如果你考虑搜索，这就是我们为每个查询尝试做的事情。我们试图整理出更高质量的信息。因此，这触及了我们所做的事情的本质。在 YouTube 上，我们也应用了相同的原则。这是一个如此复杂的话题——也许我可以用一个例子来回答。当社会在某个领域达成共识时，作为一家公司实际上更容易做到这一点。所以当社会达成共识时。你可以看到这种情况发生在战争的背景下——俄罗斯/乌克兰。

And I think that’s why you see a lot of companies be able to get it right. When society is very divided about where to draw the lines, it inherently gets harder. But the way we approach is generally, on important areas — to use YouTube as an example — we raise what we think of as authoritative information. That’s journalistic content. Or in the case of if it’s health-related maybe from universities or hospitals or public health organizations. So we use those tools, just like we have done in search, to try and think out about what are higher quality sources of information, and we view that as a goal.

我认为这就是为什么你会看到很多公司能够做得正确的原因。当社会在如何划定界限方面存在很大分歧时，这本身就变得更加困难。但我们通常的处理方式是，在重要领域——以 YouTube 为例——我们提出我们认为具有权威性的信息。那就是新闻内容。或者在涉及健康的情况下，可能来自大学、医院或公共卫生组织。因此，我们使用这些工具，就像我们在搜索中所做的那样，试图思考什么是更高质量的信息来源，我们将其视为一个目标。

有可能是Google还值得投资的根本，这是Google的主营业务，如果能给出高质量答案的搜索还是主营业务，那么Google因为缺少本质自我消耗的行为不至于走的太远。

And that’s one way by which we tackle the problem. But it’s an important issue. And I think part of it is if there are better rules, including laws and legislation, I think it will actually make it easier. But you’ll find writing the law and legislation is hard because I think as a society, we are still grappling with we think is the right answer for many of these things.

这是我们解决问题的一种方式。但这是一个重要问题。我认为其中一部分是，如果有更好的规则，包括法律和立法，我认为实际上会更容易。但你会发现制定法律和立法很困难，因为我认为作为一个社会，我们仍在努力找到对许多这些事情的正确答案。

Archana: Hi Sundar. I’m the other Archana at the business school and also from Madras, so it’s really nice to meet you. I used to work for the Gates Foundation, thinking about bringing innovation to emerging markets and underserved people, so everything you say resonates. My question is a more personal one. Doing the work you do, there are many difficulties — difficult moments, highs and lows — do you have any everyday habits or personal mantras that keep you going when things get tough?

阿尔查娜：嗨，桑达尔。我是商学院里的另一个阿尔查娜，也来自马德拉斯，很高兴认识你。我曾在盖茨基金会工作，思考如何将创新带给新兴市场和被忽视的人群，所以你说的每一句话我都深有同感。我的问题更加个人化。在你从事的工作中，会遇到许多困难——困难时刻、起伏不定——你有什么日常习惯或个人座右铭，在困难时保持前行？

Sundar Pichai: It’s a great question. First of all, most decisions — it took me a while to realize when decisions come to you, the higher up you are in the organization, the easy decisions don’t come to you. And by definition, when something has come to you, it’s because others have spent time on it, and they can’t resolve it. So in some ways, I realize that. So two things. One is I think you making that decision is the most important thing you can do. You’re breaking a tie, and it unlocks the organization to move forward. And it’s also an important thing.

桑达尔·皮查伊：这是一个很好的问题。首先，大多数决策——我花了一段时间才意识到，当决策交到你手上时，你在组织中的地位越高，越不会有简单的决策交给你。而且根据定义，当某事交到你手上时，是因为其他人已经花时间处理过，他们无法解决。所以在某种程度上，我意识到了这一点。所以有两件事。一是我认为你做出那个决定是你能做的最重要的事情。你在打破僵局，这将解锁组织向前发展。这也是一件重要的事情。

One of the mentors here, Bill Campbell, taught that to me early. Every week he would see me, he would ask me, what ties did you break this week? And so it’s always struck with me. And so I view making these decision as you’re really helping the company. And so that makes it a bit more fun. The second is with time, you realize most of those decisions are inconsequential. It might appear very tough at the time. It may feel like a lot rides on it. But you look later, and you realize it wasn’t that consequential.

这里的导师之一，比尔·坎贝尔，早期就教给了我这一点。每周他都会见我，问我，这周你打破了哪些关系？这一点一直深深印在我心中。所以我认为做出这些决定实际上是在帮助公司。这让事情变得更有趣一些。第二点是随着时间的推移，你会意识到大多数决定都是无关紧要的。在当时可能看起来很艰难。可能会感觉很多事情取决于此。但过后回头看，你会意识到那并不那么重要。

硅谷的导师系统非常厉害，跟星球大战里的Jedi几乎一模一样。

There are a few consequential decisions and judgment is a big part of leadership, and you don’t always get it right, and you have to learn from it. But I think most decisions aren’t that consequential. So thinking through both helps me think about it as it’s just another normal day in the office, and so you keep going through it

有一些重要的决定，判断是领导力的重要组成部分，你并不总是做出正确的判断，你必须从中吸取教训。但我认为大多数决定并不那么重要。因此，仔细思考这两者有助于我将其视为办公室里的又一平常日子，因此你继续前行。

事实是显而易见的，大部分困难的思考都只是自己的幻觉，觉得困难的时候说明已经处于深度幻觉，Sundar Pichai的回答只是模仿，听了很多高手都是这么讲的，不见得能理解，这种不理解是生理性的。

Archana Sohmshetty: I think we have time for one more question, right back there.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：我想我们还有时间再问一个问题，就在那边。

Nick Bashour: Hi Sundar. My name is Nick Bashour, and in Syria, 20 million people don’t have access to all of the products that Google produces. That’s because of regulations that are put in place by countries like the United States and certain countries in the European Union. So on top of being under dictatorship, 20 million Syrians don’t have access to the financial world, don’t have access to basic technology products. And the gap between the developed and developing world is really just increasing. You’re one of the most important leaders in the world. What are you doing to advocate on behalf of these people and give truly universal access to technology products? Thank you.

尼克·巴舒尔：嗨，桑达尔。我叫尼克·巴舒尔，在叙利亚，有两千万人无法获得谷歌生产的所有产品。这是因为美国和欧盟某些国家制定的法规。所以，在受到独裁统治的同时，两千万叙利亚人无法接触金融世界，无法获得基本技术产品。发达国家和发展中国家之间的差距正在不断扩大。您是世界上最重要的领导人之一。您为这些人发声，为他们提供真正的技术产品普遍使用权做了什么？谢谢。

Sundar Pichai: That’s a great question. As a company, our mission is to provide universal access to information, and any time we are not able to do that for a set of reasons, we struggle with it. We feel compelled to try to find a way. We do have to comply with laws as a company. And in areas like Syria, the ways we have contributed — a) we have been involved in the refugee work around Syrian refugees for a long time.

桑达尔·皮查伊：这是一个很好的问题。作为一家公司，我们的使命是为信息提供普遍访问权，每当由于一系列原因我们无法做到这一点时，我们都会感到困扰。我们感到有义务尝试找到一种方法。作为一家公司，我们必须遵守法律。在叙利亚等领域，我们的贡献方式包括：a）长期参与叙利亚难民工作。

We build access to open-source technologies in many of these cases and support things. Android is open source. Things do make their way into these countries, so we work at an open-source level in areas where we are not fully able to directly work. But I think it’s important question. I don’t have all the answers here, but thanks for asking it. And I’ll think about it more.

在许多情况下，我们构建对开源技术的访问并支持事物。Android 是开源的。事物确实进入这些国家，因此我们在无法直接工作的领域以开源水平进行工作。但我认为这是一个重要问题。我并没有所有答案，但感谢你提出这个问题。我会再考虑一下。

Archana Sohmshetty: Awesome. We typically conclude our conversations with a lightning round. I will start a sentence and you will finish it, so it’s a fill-in-the-blank. First of all, something that inspires me is…

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：太棒了。我们通常会以闪电回合结束我们的对话。我会开始一个句子，然后你来完成它，就像填空题一样。首先，激励我的是…

Sundar Pichai: Watching the next generation blossom. And I think society always worries that the next generation isn’t as good as they are. That is not true. And the next generation ends up making the world even better. That inspires me.

桑达尔·皮查伊：看着下一代蓬勃发展。我认为社会总是担心下一代不如他们。这不是真的。下一代最终会让世界变得更好。这激励着我。

类似的幻觉还有很多，是不是真的以为这是幻觉？

Archana Sohmshetty: I am the most proud of…

Archana Sohmshetty：我最自豪的是..

Sundar Pichai: Trying my best to do the right thing by the people I am involved with, both obviously personally and professionally — people I work with.

桑达尔·皮查伊：尽我所能为我所涉及的人做正确的事情，无论是在个人还是专业方面——与我一起工作的人。

Archana Sohmshetty: During my time at Stanford, I loved…

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：在斯坦福的时光里，我喜欢…

Sundar Pichai: I used to love just being out in the quad and sitting and grabbing lunch with friends. Driving today reminded me of that, for sure.

桑达尔·皮查伊：我过去喜欢在校园里待着，和朋友们一起吃午餐。今天开车让我想起了那段时光。

Archana Sohmshetty: I am the happiest when…

Archana Sohmshetty：当……时，我是最快乐的

Sundar Pichai: Many things. But being around people building products and solving problems makes me very happy.

桑达尔·皮查伊：很多事情。但是和那些构建产品、解决问题的人在一起让我非常快乐。

Archana Sohmshetty: And finally, the best piece of leadership advice I’ve received is…

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：最后，我收到的最好的领导建议是..

Sundar Pichai: Be authentic to yourself and be the best leader you can be. I think there’s one right template, and don’t try to be in someone else’s mold.

桑达尔·皮查伊：做真实的自己，成为你能成为的最好的领导者。我认为没有一个正确的模板，不要试图成为别人的模子。

Archana Sohmshetty: That’s wonderful. Sundar, thank you so much. It’s been such a pleasure.

阿尔查娜·索姆谢蒂：太棒了。桑达，非常感谢你。这真是一段愉快的时光。

Sundar Pichai: Thank you.

桑达尔·皮查伊：谢谢。

2022-06-17 Sundar Pichai.GOOG.“Reward Effort, Not Outcomes”

2022-06-17 Sundar Pichai.GOOG.“Reward Effort, Not Outcomes”

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