Unknown Analyst
So really pleased to introduce our next speaker, Thomas Peterffy, Founder and Chairman of Interactive Brokers. Thomas has a really storied history within the equities and brokerage business, one of the first individuals to utilize computer models in option pricing, a pioneer in automating equity options and futures market making. And his firm is a global leader amongst all the technology-driven brokers.
未知分析师
非常高兴地介绍我们今天的下一位演讲嘉宾——Interactive Brokers（盈透证券）的创始人兼董事长托马斯·彼得菲。托马斯在股票和经纪业务领域拥有传奇般的经历，他是最早利用计算机模型进行期权定价的人之一，也是将股权和期货期权做市自动化的先驱。他的公司在所有技术驱动型券商中处于全球领先地位。
And while he certainly has an impressive background, ultimately, when we look at the financials, it's really standout best-in-class margins, best account growth across the space and a really diverse tech stack. So Interactive has really emerged as the premier player within the brokerage space. So I couldn't be happier to have you here with us, Thomas.
尽管他的背景已经十分亮眼，但如果看财务数据，他所实现的利润率是行业顶尖、账户增长速度最快，而且技术栈极其多元。因此，Interactive 已成为经纪行业的领军者。我非常高兴托马斯今天能与我们同在。
Unknown Analyst
Now before maybe delving into your business, you always have interesting perspective on the macro. I was hoping to get your thoughts on the interest rate backdrop, expectations around the stickiness of the higher for longer rates, and anything you'd like to share just on how that's going to impact the financial services and brokerage industry more broadly.
未知分析师
在进一步探讨贵公司的业务之前，您向来对宏观经济有独到的见解。我想听听您对利率环境的看法，尤其是“高利率维持更久”这一预期的黏性，以及这将如何更广泛地影响金融服务和经纪行业。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So I'm not saying anything new, and I tell you that interest rates go with inflation, right? And so as long as inflation stays up there, interest rates will go -- will stay up there. So I doubt that interest rates will dip below 4% because I think that inflation is driven by the 3 Ds, which is deglobalization, number one, over the past 3 or 4 decades. Due to the containerization and the Internet, the production of goods and services was reallocated over the globe to places where it's the cheapest to produce them because it is so cheap to transport them anywhere you want to use them or sell them.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我并没有提出任何新观点；我想说明的是利率与通胀同步。只要通胀高企，利率就会维持在高位。因此，我怀疑利率会跌破4%，因为我认为通胀由“三个D”驱动，其中首要的是过去三四十年的去全球化。由于集装箱化和互联网的普及，商品和服务的生产被重新分配到全球成本最低的地区，因为将其运输到任何使用或销售地的成本都极其低廉。
So as a result, cost of goods have gone down 50% to 90%. In some cases, more than 90%. Now as a result of the geographic tensions, this global -- this globalization is going to reverse now and it is in the process of reversal, and that is going to increase prices. So that's one thing that is driving inflation on the long run in my mind.
因此，商品成本下降了50%至90%，有些情况下甚至超过90%。但如今由于地缘紧张局势，这种全球化正开始逆转，目前已在进行中，这将推高价格。在我看来，这将是长期推动通胀的因素之一。
Secondly, it's the 3 Ds, so deglobalization, demographics. Demographics, if you look around the map, you will see that the mean age of the population in the United States, in Europe, in China and Japan. So anywhere where we see developed economies, the mean age is 40 or higher. When you look at the rest of the globe, the mean age is 30 or lower. Sorry, I don't mean, mean. I mean median, median age.
其次，是“三个D”中的人口结构。如果你看看全球地图，会发现美国、欧洲、中国和日本的人口中位年龄普遍在40岁或以上；凡是发达经济体，中位年龄都在40岁或更高。而在全球其他地区，中位年龄则在30岁或以下。抱歉，我不是指平均年龄，而是中位年龄。
So as a result, the supply of new skilled labor, where we need it, which is in the developed countries is going to become less and less and less. And it is increasing fast, and people are growing up in the undeveloped countries. But there are not -- there is no education that -- the kind of education that we need to continue to produce what we're producing is lacking there. So for that reason, I'm saying that labor prices are going to rise in the developed countries fast.
因此，在发达国家——也正是我们最需要技能劳动力的地方——新的技能劳动力供应将日益减少。而与此同时，欠发达国家人口快速增长，但他们缺乏我们维持现有产能所需的那类教育。因此，我认为发达国家的劳动力成本将迅速上升。
And thirdly, the deficit, right? Deficit is -- looks like it's going to be \$5 trillion in the United States over the next 5 years. Now that -- the interest on that, and that's added to the current \$33 trillion, right, so it will be \$38 trillion. The interest on that is just going to grow higher and higher and higher.
第三，是赤字。未来五年，美国财政赤字看起来将累计达到5万亿美元。这意味着在当前33万亿美元基础上，总债务将增至38万亿美元，相应的利息支出只会不断攀升。
So inflation rate will increase for these 3 factors -- because of these 3 factors. You add ESG next to it on top of it, and then you see where you are, right? On the other hand, we have AI. It's a great promise, but I do not really see how that is going to help us out of here. But maybe, it will. I mean maybe, I'm wrong.
因此，由于这三个因素，通胀率将会上升。如果再叠加ESG要求，你就能看到我们的处境。另一方面，我们还有人工智能，它承载着巨大希望，但我暂时看不出它能如何把我们带离困境。当然，也许我错了，也许它真的能做到。
Unknown Analyst
You opened up the door to that, Thomas, given your background and like deep expertise on the digital and technology side. What are your thoughts around AI broadly? And how are you maybe looking to deploy that at your own firm?
未知分析师
既然您具备数字化和技术方面的深厚专业背景，托马斯，您已谈到这个话题。总体来看，您对人工智能有什么看法？以及您计划如何在自己的公司内部部署 AI？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So at our own firm, we have been trying to use different versions of AI over the last -- we started about 3 years ago for customer service. Namely, we ask our customers -- when a customer calls in, we try to serve with them online, and we try to get them to type in the question, and then we give them an answer. And if they don't like the answer, they can switch to the customer service person.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
在我们公司内部，过去三年我们一直尝试使用不同版本的 AI，最初应用在客户服务上。具体来说，当客户来电时，我们尽量在线服务，让他们把问题输入系统，由系统给出答案；若客户不满意，可切换至人工客服。
And that -- right now, there are about 30% of our answers are correct, which is not bad because we started at something like 2% or 3% 3 years ago. So it's getting better. And that is a demonstration that yes, we can see -- yes, we can say it's simple jobs like customer service. And so as a result, as our number of accounts are growing, we don't really have to add too many new customer service people as that AI gets better.
目前，大约 30% 的回答是正确的，这已经不错了，因为三年前正确率仅约 2% 至 3%。效果持续提升，证明像客户服务这种相对简单的工作确实可以由 AI 处理。随着账户数量增长，AI 的进步意味着我们无需额外增加太多客服人员。
What is more exciting about the AI, of course, is what you all do, namely trying to predict stock prices, right? And there are a number of \[ con ] shops that are working on that. And what we are doing is we're trying to interface their software with our execution software, right, so that they -- because what is going to happen is that as they see the data points changing, they will very quickly will want to act on it.
当然，更令人兴奋的 AI 用途是你们正在做的——预测股价。有不少量化公司在研究这一方向。我们正在把他们的软件与我们的交易执行系统对接，因为一旦数据点发生变化，他们需要迅速采取行动。
But of course, they are all looking at the same data points, right? So it's whoever gets there first is -- again, it's always the fastest speed that's going to win. So it is important to have this immediate ability to trade. As soon as your data changes, you want the orders to execute. So that's it.
但显然，大家关注的数据点都是相同的，所以谁先出手谁就赢——速度永远是决定胜负的关键。因此，具备即时交易能力极为重要，一旦数据变化，订单必须立刻成交。就是这样。
Unknown Analyst
That's great color. You talked about higher for longer being your base case. How are you managing Interactive's balance sheet for this new higher rate paradigm?
未知分析师
非常精彩的分享。您提到“高利率维持更久”是您的基本预期。那么，在这种新的高利率环境下，您如何管理盈透证券的资产负债表？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So we are invested very short term, roughly about a month forward. It is also -- right now, there is a very interesting situation in the -- if you watch the long-term bond market over the last 10 days or so, you saw that long-term interest rates came down by roughly 45 basis points to 4.55% from 5%. Simultaneously, the stock market went up by about 5.5%.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我们的投资期限非常短，大约滚动一个月左右。现在还有一个非常有趣的现象：若观察过去十天左右的长期债券市场，长期利率从 5% 降至约 4.55%，下行约 45 个基点。与此同时，股市上涨约 5.5%。
So what is happening is that it is institutional. I assume these are institutional accounts who are betting on lower rates. So they are buying the long-term bond futures because it's very simple to -- very liquid, very simple to buy. And it's quick to buy, and you don't immediately need a lot of money to express your view. So they are buying these futures on the hedge funds. See, the bond is trading lower than where the futures are, so they buy the bonds and sell the futures.
这主要是机构在押注利率下行。我认为这些是机构账户，他们买入长期国债期货，因为期货流动性好、买卖方便，且无需立即投入大量资金即可表达观点。与此同时，对冲基金看到现券价格低于期货价格，便买入债券、卖出期货进行对冲。
On the other hand, when the futures are going to come due in December, what is going to happen, right? So the institutions that bought the futures will probably not want to take delivery, so they will either roll forward or just sell lot. Now if they sell lot, the futures are going to dip. So the hedge funds that are holding the cash against the futures will buy the futures and will want to sell the cash. But who is going to buy it, right?
另一方面，当这些期货在 12 月到期时会发生什么？买入期货的机构大概率不想实物交割，他们要么展期，要么平仓出售。如果大量平仓，期货价格将下跌。持有现券对冲的对冲基金会买入期货、卖出现券，但问题是，谁来接盘现券？
So I think that come December delivery date, the rates are going to go. And if not this time, then in the March delivery. I mean, I think if you are interested in these issues, watch interest rates around the future delivery. What was your question?
因此，我认为一到 12 月交割日，利率就会上行；如果这次没有，那么就看 3 月交割。我建议，如果你对这些问题感兴趣，可以关注期货交割前后的利率走势。我刚才回答的问题是什么来着？
Unknown Analyst
No, that's honestly -- it's about how you're managing the balance sheet. But honestly, I hadn't heard that perspective in terms of the supply that's going to hit the market and the dynamic with futures.
未知分析师
不，这其实……关键在于你们如何管理资产负债表。不过说真的，我之前从未听过这种有关市场即将面临的供给以及期货动态的视角。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
It's all about supply and demand in everything.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
一切归根结底都是供求关系。
Unknown Analyst
The other piece, just around client engagement. Given this macro backdrop, maybe just speak to what you're seeing in terms of trading volumes but also the utilization of margin, which ticked higher, as well as securities lending.
未知分析师
另一个方面是客户参与度。在当前宏观环境下，请谈谈你们在交易量、越来越高的保证金使用率以及证券借贷方面看到的情况。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So margins, if the market stays where it is or goes slightly up, our margin balance will increase because margin loan balance will increase because we are the lowest provider of margin loans. We charge 0.5% to 1.5% over fed fund rates. We charge 1.5% for very small loans and 0.5% for very large loans. And for in between a month, we are in between. If ever the market goes down, then margin loans generally decrease because people liquidate or some of those who don't liquidate will liquidate them because we are -- our margin procedure is automated so that we never end up holding the bag.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
关于保证金，如果市场维持现状或略有上升，我们的保证金余额会增加，因为我们提供行业最低成本的保证金贷款。我们的收费在联邦基金利率基础上加 0.5% 至 1.5%；小额贷款收 1.5%，大额贷款收 0.5%，中间档则介于两者之间。如果市场下跌，保证金贷款通常会减少，因为客户会平仓，而那些不主动平仓的也会被我们平仓——我们的保证金流程是自动化的，确保我们绝不会被套牢。
Unknown Analyst
And on securities lending, do you have...
未知分析师
至于证券借贷业务，您有什么……
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Securities lending. So securities lending, it largely depends on the number of hard-to-borrow situations. The profits in securities lending are greatly dependent on that. And currently, there aren't a hell of a lot of hard-to-borrow stocks. So -- but that's a fluctuating thing, and I cannot forecast what is going to happen.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
证券借贷业务主要取决于“难以借到”的股票数量，盈利高度依赖这一点。目前市场上“难借股”并不多。因此收益波动很大，我无法预测未来情况。
Unknown Analyst
We hope for an IPO recovery. That should hopefully help. Maybe just shifting to your business specifically. You delivered consistently really best-in-class account growth. I know you've talked about 20% plus being the achievable bogey over the long term. Maybe just speak, Thomas, to the building blocks, how you get to that 20% growth sustainably.
未知分析师
我们希望 IPO 市场复苏，这可能会有所帮助。接下来谈谈贵公司本身：你们的账户增长一直处于行业领先。此前你提到长期实现 20% 以上增长是可达到的目标。托马斯，能否谈谈支撑这一持续 20% 增长的关键要素？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So the account growth for the last 12 months is 22% accounts, 24% equity. The individual accounts have grown by 24% over the last 12 months. Nancy, are you here? Can you give me that, my \[ feet ]?
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
在过去 12 个月里，账户数量增长了 22%，客户资产增长了 24%。个人账户在过去 12 个月里增长了 24%。南希，你在吗？能把那张表给我吗？
Nancy Stuebe Director of Investor Relations
Yes.
南希·史蒂布 投资者关系总监
在的。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Individual accounts are up 24%. So 22% -- well, I don't -- I have to wait for the sheet. I'm sorry.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
个人账户增长了 24%。所以 22%——嗯，我得等那张表，不好意思。
Unknown Analyst
That's okay.
未知分析师
没关系。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
I wrote this all down on my laptop. And what happened was that instead of my Wolfe presentation, I put out my Bank of America presentation. So the answers don't match the question, so that's the problem. Okay.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我把这些都写在了笔记本电脑上。但结果是，本应展示在 Wolfe 会议上的演示文稿却被我错发成了给美国银行准备的演示文稿，因此回答和问题对不上，这就是问题所在。好的。
So individuals are growing about 24%. And drop traders, 21%; IBrokers, 18%; hedge funds, 12%; and financial advisers, 7%. However, the profitability of these segments is quite different per account because hedge funds are highest, drop traders are second, financial advisers are third, individuals are fourth, and IBrokers are the least profitable. But -- so I expect accounts growing at the same rate going forward as they have been growing in the recent past.
个人账户增长约 24%，短线交易者增长 21%，IBrokers 渠道增长 18%，对冲基金增长 12%，理财顾问增长 7%。不过，各细分客户的单户盈利能力差异很大：对冲基金最高，短线交易者第二，理财顾问第三，个人客户第四，IBrokers 最低。因此，我预计未来账户数量将继续保持近期的增长速度。
Unknown Analyst
Well, despite not having my questions in front of you, that was my next question, so good job at least anticipating that. But maybe spending a little bit of time on the introducing broker channel. Can you maybe help frame, Thomas, the market opportunity for the broker dealers that you're targeting? And what's differentiated about your offering that's resonating with that cohort in the marketplace?
未知分析师
虽然您手头并没有我准备的问题，但您刚才已经回答了我接下来的提问，预测得相当好。不过想花点时间谈谈 Introducing Broker 渠道。托马斯，能否请您阐述一下你们瞄准的经纪自营商市场机遇？以及你们的产品有哪些差异化之处，能够吸引这部分群体？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So 80% of the accounts at Interactive Brokers are not U.S.-based, so only 20% of the accounts with us are American accounts. This -- and the growth, the new accounts are outside of the U.S., even more than 80%, something like 84%. So we are basically an international broker because our accounts are coming from all over the world. And that gives us the advantage that we have very, very little competition in places where there is very little equity culture.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
在盈透证券开户的客户中，80% 并非美国账户，美国账户仅占 20%。新增账户中来自美国以外的比例更高，约为 84%。因此我们基本上是一家国际经纪商，因为客户来自世界各地。这让我们在股权文化尚不普及的地区几乎没有竞争对手。
So people who are now coming to a point where they're beginning to have enough money to invest, if they look around, the only advertisements they see for brokers is Interactive Brokers. So they open accounts with us. And that is the reason why our growth rate is faster than our peers.
因此，当这些地区的人们积累了足够资金开始投资时，环顾四周，唯一看到的券商广告就是盈透证券，于是他们就会在我们这里开户。这正是我们的增长率快于同行的原因。
Unknown Analyst
Clearly, the challenges on the regulatory side, Thomas, create a lot of high barriers to entry for some of the other brokers.
未知分析师
显然，托马斯，监管方面的挑战为其他一些券商设置了很高的准入门槛。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
And for us too because I tell you, the AML thing, of course, is extremely complex with accounts from all over the world because a U.S. applicant is very quick to AML online, right? But with foreigners, the online AML is much more difficult, and we have to use people to follow up on these account applicants. And so we have some 400 people now doing nothing but AML.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
这对我们也是如此。我要说的是，反洗钱（AML）非常复杂，因为我们的客户来自全球各地。美国申请人可以很快完成在线反洗钱流程，对吧？但对外国客户而言，在线 AML 要困难得多，我们必须用人工去跟进这些开户申请。目前我们有大约 400 名员工专门负责 AML。
Unknown Analyst
We've had one interesting development is -- I know it's a very different demographic cohort but Robinhood, who serves a very different clientele, is launching in the U.K. They have other ambitions to expand that more broadly internationally. Maybe speak to the competitive landscape and whether you perceive folks like Robinhood or others, that are trying to make a similar push, as meaningful threats in that regard.
未知分析师
出现了一个有趣的动态——虽然服务对象截然不同，但 Robinhood 这家公司准备进军英国市场，并计划进一步在全球扩张。请谈谈当前的竞争格局，以及像 Robinhood 这样尝试类似扩张的公司，是否会构成具有意义的威胁。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
I was asked this question on CNBC 2 nights ago. And I answered saying that I do not understand Robinhood's business model because they have 5x as many accounts as we have and they repeatedly are reporting losses. And we have \$3 billion of profit a year roughly. So I do not understand.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
两晚前我在 CNBC 上被问到同样的问题。我回答说，我不理解 Robinhood 的商业模式；他们的账户数是我们的 5 倍，却持续亏损，而我们一年大约盈利 30 亿美元。我实在想不通。
First, they wanted to grow themselves to profitability hoping that if they have more accounts, their cost will not increase at the same rate. But that didn't happen, so now they are trying to shrink themselves to profitability and trying to get rid of the least profitable accounts. But that doesn't give them profits either. So how will they ever get to profitability is a very interesting question. And I tell you, I'm not going to do them -- do their homework.
起初，他们想通过扩大规模来实现盈利，认为账户越多，成本增速就不会同步攀升。但事情并未如愿，现在他们尝试通过缩减规模来盈利，剔除最不赚钱的账户，可这依然没有带来利润。因此，他们如何才能实现盈利是个很有意思的问题。我可不会替他们做功课。
Unknown Analyst
Fair enough. Well, we have them presenting later today. So...
未知分析师
也说得过去。我们今天稍晚会听他们的发言，所以……
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Really? Ask them that. And I am very much interested in what he's going to say.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
真的？那就问问他们吧。我很想知道他会怎么回答。
Unknown Analyst
And maybe just spending some time on the prime brokerage side. You noted that the hedge fund segment is the most profitable or at least has the highest profitability profile, I should say. What about the offering of Interactive that's really resonating with some of the hedge funds? And are there any capabilities you're adding to maybe attract larger funds onto the platform?
未知分析师
也想花些时间谈谈主经纪业务。您提到对冲基金客户是最盈利、或者说盈利能力最高的细分。Interactive 有哪些服务最能打动这些对冲基金？此外，你们是否在新增功能，以吸引规模更大的基金加入平台？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So we are very lucky with the hedge funds because what happens is that the large primes will not take hedge funds under \$100 million. Or you have to back them and if you have a related fund that's over \$100 million, then they'll take you. Otherwise, they won't. So if you -- and most of the funds we get are under \$100 million.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我们在对冲基金方面非常幸运，因为大型主经纪商不会接纳规模低于 1 亿美元的对冲基金。除非背后还有另一只超过 1 亿美元的关联基金，否则他们不会接纳。而我们接收的大多数基金规模都低于 1 亿美元。
And so if you are in the under \$100 million category, you have to go to a mini prime. And mini primes are -- they don't clear or custody themselves, so they go between the big primes and the hedge funds. And that, of course, adds to the cost, and small funds are very sensitive to cost. Large funds are much less sensitive, and that is our problem because basically, what we have to offer is better executions, more streamlined work and less expense.
因此，如果基金规模不到 1 亿美元，就必须寻求迷你主经纪商服务。迷你主经纪商本身并不负责清算或托管，他们充当大型主经纪商与对冲基金之间的中介，这自然会增加成本；小型基金对成本极为敏感，而大型基金则不那么在意。这正是我们的难点，因为我们的核心卖点是更优执行、更简化流程和更低费用。
So we basically believe that we add 1% to the performance of a hedge fund. And large funds don't care much about 1%. They care more about hedge fund handholding and all the white glove stuff that they get from the major primes. So second, what do we do about it, right? So one of the things -- so we are trying to go after the large prime brokers for part of their business, which is that they can keep their custody wherever at Morgan Stanley or Goldman Sachs.
我们基本认为，使用我们的服务能为对冲基金的业绩提升约 1%。但大型基金并不太在乎区区 1%，他们更看重大型主经纪商提供的贴身服务与“白手套”待遇。那么我们该怎么办？我们的策略之一是争取大型主经纪商部分业务——他们可以继续把托管放在摩根士丹利或高盛，但把部分执行业务交给我们。
But if they give some of their execution business and maybe a little bit of their custody to us, that's great. And then they get access to our short availability, where we are the only prime broker who display all of our short inventory and the rate at which you can borrow it. Now many of the funds look at that and then instead of really doing the business with us, they go back to Goldman and Morgan Stanley and beat them up saying, look, Interactive Brokers lends me this stock at 2%. Why do you want 4%, right? And then they usually get what they say.
如果他们把部分执行、甚至少量托管业务交给我们，就能使用我们的卖空库存可视化功能——我们是唯一一家展示全部可借股票及其借券费率的主经纪商。很多基金看完后，并不真的在我们这里做业务，而是回去找高盛或摩根士丹利砍价：“盈透借这只股票只要 2%，你们怎么要 4%？”结果通常都如他们所愿。
But lately, I have heard that some hedge funds say, Interactive Brokers gives me a 2%. Why don't you match them? And the fact is that we had that stock at 3%, right? And the primes are picking up on the hedge funds lying to them, and they no longer match. So I don't know what will happen.
但最近我听说，有些对冲基金对大型主经纪商说：“盈透给我 2%，你们怎么不匹配？”其实那只股票在我们这里的借券费是 3%。大型主经纪商开始识破这些基金的谎言，不再跟价。我不知道接下来会怎样。
But anyway, we just came out -- we are just coming out with a -- next week, we are coming out with a way to -- from your iPhone, you can enter the stock symbol and see the rate at which we are able to lend you the stock and the range which we pay on the short proceeds and not only in U.S. dollars but also Hong Kong dollars or euros. So depending upon what -- where you are and what currency your account is based in because, as I say, this is basically a global world, and America is only part of these service accounts.
无论如何，我们马上要推出一个新功能——下周起，你可以在 iPhone 上输入股票代码，立即查看我们可提供的借券费率，以及我们对卖空所得现金支付的利率范围，而且不仅限于美元，还有港币和欧元。因为正如我所说，这是一个全球化的世界，美国客户只是我们服务账户的一部分，利率会根据你所处地区和账户基础货币而有所不同。
Unknown Analyst
Well, I know you've been climbing up the prime brokerage ranks. And now that the banks have to grapple with some tougher regulatory and capital burdens, I imagine there'll be a growing TAM, at least at your side.
未知分析师
我知道你们在主经纪业务的排名不断上升。现在各大银行必须应对更严苛的监管和资本负担，我想你们这边的整体可服务市场（TAM）将进一步扩大。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thank you very much.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
非常感谢。
Unknown Analyst
Shifting to the product side, Thomas. You've been an advocate for options trading for decades. The...
未知分析师
换个话题到产品层面，托马斯。数十年来您一直是期权交易的倡导者。……
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
I've been right.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我是正确的。
Unknown Analyst
You have been right. And certainly, the adoption statistics support that. I mean is your expectation that the options utilization continues to grow as a percentage of trading on your platform and maybe even across the broader industry?
未知分析师
的确如此，采用统计数据也印证了这一点。您是否预计期权在贵平台上的交易占比，以及在整个行业中的占比，将继续上升？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Definitely. I mean that's what we've been seeing. I started in the option business 47 years ago, and options have been around for 50 years. The CBOE started in '73. And throughout those 50 years, you see almost straight-line growth with a little bit of a curve upward in the last year or so, last 2 years. And so the fact is that, as I say, where we are, where most of our new accounts come from, is outside of the United States where options utilization is much, much lower.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
绝对如此，这正是我们所观察到的。我在 47 年前就进入期权行业，而期权已经存在 50 年。芝加哥期权交易所（CBOE）始于 1973 年。在这 50 年里，期权交易量几乎呈直线上升，尤其在过去一两年略有加速。如我所说，当前我们的绝大多数新增账户来自美国以外地区，而这些地区的期权使用率仍然非常低。
And there is -- so we are in a very good position to market options. As a matter of fact, we do a lot of joint marketing with the CBOE and the CME at different places around the world. And so we have a very good situation as to where we are marketing. And I expect that this is going to continue to yield good new options accounts.
而且——因此我们在推广期权方面占据了非常有利的位置。事实上，我们与 CBOE 和 CME 在全球多地进行联合推广，所以我们的市场拓展环境非常好。我预计这将继续带来优质的新增期权账户。
Unknown Analyst
And maybe on 0 DTE options specifically, that there's been a significant tailwind to option volumes on your platform and even broadly across the industry. Can you help investors -- help us, at least, to understand why sort of have \[ dated ] options have become so popular? And what's the runway for growth in your mind for that particular product?
未知分析师
具体谈到 0 DTE（0 天到期）期权，这类产品已显著推升了贵平台乃至整个行业的期权交易量。能否为投资者——至少帮我们——解释一下，为什么这种超短期限期权会如此受欢迎？在您看来，这类产品未来的增长空间有多大？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So the reason is very simple. Short-rated options are so popular because the shorter the option is, the cheaper it is. So people like to put up \$100 and see whether they are right or wrong by the end of the day with the 0-day option, and they don't have to worry about managing the position overnight because it's a cash option and it expires at the end of the day. So it's a very, very simple proposition to buy or sell an option.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
原因很简单：期限越短，期权越便宜。许多人愿意投入 100 美元，通过 0 DTE 期权在当日收盘前验证自己的判断，而且无需担心隔夜持仓风险——这是一种现金结算期权，当日即到期。因此买卖这种期权非常直接、简单。
Now most of our customers are trading vertical spreads. Namely, you buy an SPY, you buy Standard & Poor's options, right? You buy a \$3,200, sell a \$3,300 option. So your cost is reduced by the -- if the market is around \$32 something, your cost is much less. And so you are risking basically \$100 or something like that. And at the end of the day, you either have a profit or a loss and it's a lot of fun.
目前，我们的大多数客户交易的是垂直价差。例如交易 SPY，也就是标普期权：买入 3,200 点期权，同时卖出 3,300 点期权。如果标普指数在 3,200 点左右，这样可以大幅降低成本；你的风险大约只有 100 美元左右。到收盘时，要么盈利，要么亏损，而且颇具趣味性。
Also, if you want to trade your way into a portfolio during the day, the market is kind of illiquid. So what people often do is if you want to accumulate a portfolio, you buy an in-the-money there \[ all-day ] call option, which is very liquid. And at the end of the day, you put in the portfolio order to buy on the close because you know that the option expires at the close, right? So when you buy on the close, you get the price that you paid for the option, basically. So that's -- and the same way, liquidating a portfolio, you buy a put option.
此外，若想在盘中逐步建仓，因市场流动性有限，投资者通常先买入一份深度实值、当日到期的看涨期权，流动性极佳。然后在收盘前下达现货买入指令，因为该期权届时到期；实质上，你按期权隐含的价格买入现货。同理，清仓时则买入看跌期权。
Unknown Analyst
Thomas, I think one of the biggest differentiators in terms of your performance relative to the peer group is certainly your margins, which I think last year, when you were here, you said you don't know if there's room for expansion. They have since expanded. They're now in the low to mid-70s type of zone.
未知分析师
托马斯，我认为与你们同行相比，你们最大的优势之一在于利润率。去年您在这里曾表示不确定利润率还能否提升，但后来它们确实提高了，目前已处于 70% 左右的低至中区间。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
73%, to be exact.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
准确来说是 73%。
Unknown Analyst
Okay. That's what. I appreciate the precision, 73%. How should we think about that margin trajectory in a higher-for-longer backdrop, confidence around the sustainability of that?
未知分析师
好的，就是这样。我感谢您提供的精确数据——73%。在“高利率维持更久”的背景下，我们应如何看待这一利润率的走势，以及其可持续性的信心如何？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, we'd like to be able to sustain it over the low 60%. I think it will be 60% to 75% for the next 3, 4 years, and then it's going to go as inflation is going to rise. As I said, it's going to -- I don't think we can go much higher than 75% because the profit margin for the average U.S. corporation, what is it, maybe 10%, right? So it's impossible to imagine that we could go much beyond 75%, right?
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我们希望能将其维持在低于 60% 之上的水平。我认为未来三四年会保持在 60% 到 75% 之间，之后随着通胀上升将有所变化。正如我所说，我不认为我们能突破 75% 太多，因为美国企业的平均利润率大概只有 10% 左右吧？因此很难想象我们能够大幅超过 75%。
Unknown Analyst
I would have said that last year too that you wouldn't gone much beyond the mid-60s, yes. But the expense growth has actually been a big driver of that positive surprise. Even as the account growth has been trending in line with your targets, the -- that 15% growth in fixed expenses, you tended to deliver better than that. Why is the 15% the right benchmark? And can you sustain that even with the inflationary outlook that you just outlined?
未知分析师
去年我也会说你们的利润率不会超过 60% 中段。但实际上，费用增长是利润率意外提升的重要驱动力。即便账户增速符合你们的目标，固定费用增长 15% 这一指标，你们往往做得更好。为什么 15% 是合适的基准？在您刚才描绘的通胀前景下，你们能否继续保持这一水平？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, it no longer is because I think that our expense growth is going to be more like 8% to 9% because the expenses grew very fast because we had to put in broker -- new broker subsidiaries in various countries, which we continue to do, but at a slower rate now.
And second, I mentioned before that we had to very, very substantially boost compliance. The compliance department is becoming almost the most expensive department of the firm. And so now that it's all \[ fat ] and we have put in a lot of compliance software, we can ease up on that expense a little bit, so our expense growth will come down to the 8% to 9%.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
情况已不再如此，我认为我们的费用增速将降至 8% 到 9% 左右。此前费用增长很快，是因为我们在多个国家设立新的经纪子公司，这项工作仍在继续，但速度已放缓。
其次，我之前提到过，我们必须大幅加强合规。合规部门几乎成了公司成本最高的部门。如今人手已足，而且我们部署了大量合规软件，因此可以稍微收紧这部分支出，把费用增速降至 8% 到 9%。
Unknown Analyst
That's great. Well, I know, Thomas, we only have one more minute here. I did want to ask you around M\&A. You did note on the 3Q earnings call that you were looking at 2 potential M\&A targets. I wanted to just better understand your M\&A philosophy. What are the types of companies you're interested in acquiring? Are they smaller broker dealers that you could fold into your current business? Or is it more of a product capability add that you're looking for from an M\&A standpoint?
未知分析师
太好了。托马斯，我知道我们只剩一分钟。我想询问一下并购事宜。你在三季度财报电话会上提到正考虑两个潜在并购目标。我想进一步了解你们的并购理念：你们有兴趣收购什么类型的公司？是可以并入现有业务的小型券商，还是从并购角度看更侧重于补充产品能力？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So as you hear in the news, we haven't done very well on that because there is no news. So we haven't done any M\&A., and the problem is that we don't want to get into the Robinhood situation where we have millions of accounts and not make any money, right? So we don't want to buy any of these small brokers. And the large brokers are more relationship driven, and we are not good at that either. We are good at building technology. So we're kind of stuck here. We would like -- the money we have keeps accumulating. We are now at \$13.6 billion of equity, and we are making about -- after tax, about \$2.4 billion a year. And it just keeps accumulating on the bottom line. We have to spend it somehow or give it back as dividends. But we'll see.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
正如新闻所见，我们在并购方面进展并不顺利，因为没有任何消息——我们至今未完成任何并购。问题在于，我们不想陷入 Robinhood 的境地：拥有数百万账户却赚不到钱。我们不打算收购这些小型券商；而大型券商则更加依赖关系驱动，这也不是我们的长项。我们的强项是打造技术。因此我们有些进退两难。我们的资金不断积累，目前股东权益已达 136 亿美元，税后利润约 24 亿美元，并持续累积在账面上。我们总得想办法花掉这些钱，或者以分红形式返还，但再看吧。
Unknown Analyst
Great way to close. Thomas, thank you so much for being here again. Really appreciate it. And next up, we will have the heads of Pershing. So thank you again.
未知分析师
很好的收尾。托马斯，再次感谢您的到来，真的十分感谢。接下来将由 Pershing 的负责人发言。再次感谢您。