Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Craig Siegenthaler from Bank of America, and it's my pleasure to introduce Thomas Peterffy. Thomas is the Founder and Chairman of Interactive Brokers. He founded the firm 43 years ago and is one of the pioneers of electronic trade...
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
我是来自美国银行的克雷格·西根塔勒,非常荣幸为大家介绍托马斯·彼得菲。托马斯是盈透证券(Interactive Brokers)的创始人兼董事长。他在43年前创办了这家公司,并且是电子交易领域的先驱之一……
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Excuse me, 47.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
不好意思,是47年前。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
47 years ago. Sorry about that, Thomas. Interactive Brokers is a digital investing platform that services its clients across multiple segments. Its offerings target individuals, \[ RAAs ], hedge funds, prop traders, introducing brokers and extends into most major international markets. In our view, IBKR's competitive advantage is its technology R\&D effort, which allows them to offer multiple products in multiple currencies, launching new capabilities quicker and also underpricing its competition.
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
47年前,抱歉托马斯。盈透证券是一家数字化投资平台,服务对象横跨多个客户群体,涵盖个人投资者、注册投资顾问(RAAs)、对冲基金、自营交易员、引介经纪商,并且业务已扩展至多数主要国际市场。在我们看来,盈透证券的竞争优势在于其技术研发能力,这让他们能以更快速度推出多产品、多币种的服务功能,同时价格也优于竞争对手。
Thomas, thank you for joining us.
托马斯,感谢您今天的参与。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thank you very much for having me.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
非常感谢你们的邀请。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So everyone here is interested in your perspective on these topics. We're eager to hear your thoughts. So please feel free to expand on any of them if you wish. So let's just start with the economy. It's been trending stronger than we thought, rates are still high, but the Federal Reserve has indicated that the next move will be rate cuts. Given the uncertain world stage and perspective from your international client base, what do you see evolving on the economic front?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
在座各位都非常期待听听您对这些问题的看法。请您尽可能多分享,如果愿意,也可以自由展开谈谈。我们就从经济话题开始吧。当前经济表现比预期强劲,利率仍处高位,但美联储已经暗示接下来的政策动作将是降息。考虑到当前全球局势的不确定性,以及您接触到的国际客户视角,您如何看待未来的经济形势?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So the situation worldwide is getting more and more difficult. As you know, about all the geopolitical uncertainties, china's economy is going down. Deficits are rising everywhere. But still, the U.S. market keeps climbing to new highs. And when you ask why is that, I think exactly for that reason. Namely, it's a perverse situation that the increasing U.S. absence on the world stage leaves the vacuum and it creates a very uncertain feeling in people all over the world.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
当前全球形势日益严峻。正如你们所知,地缘政治不确定性不断增加,中国经济正在下行,财政赤字在各国都在上升。但尽管如此,美国股市却持续创下新高。当你问为什么会这样,我认为恰恰就是因为这些原因。这是一种“反常”的现象——美国在全球舞台上的影响力相对减弱,造成了权力真空,全球范围内的不确定感随之增强。
So the U.S., in spite of it being in some sense, deteriorating situation politically, financially and even culturally is still relatively the strongest place in the world to bring your money. So that's what people are doing, and that's what we see in our rising account numbers. People from all over the world want to have their money in the United States. So they invest in the U.S.
所以尽管美国在政治、财政甚至文化层面都存在某种程度的衰退,但它仍然是世界上相对最强的资本避风港。这就是为什么大家都把资金转向美国——我们从客户账户数量不断增长中就能看出这一点。来自世界各地的人都希望把钱放在美国,因此他们选择投资美国市场。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So let's talk about organic growth, arguably one of the most important metrics that you guys produce. So just a few years ago, IBKR was enjoying growth of 40%, 50%, actually 60% at some point in terms of account growth. This is when retail engagement was much higher under that COVID perfect storm. But unlike Peloton, IBKR is still growing quickly but not -- still at 50%. So how should we think about the sensitivity of your organic growth to the economic backdrop, really in relation to your 20% to 25% target for account growth?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
我们来谈谈有机增长,这是你们最重要的指标之一。就在几年前,盈透证券的账户增长率达到40%、50%,甚至某个时期曾高达60%,那是在疫情推动下散户高度活跃的背景下。但与Peloton不同的是,盈透至今仍保持着高速增长,虽然没有维持在50%的水平。那么我们该如何理解你们的有机增长对宏观经济环境的敏感性?特别是结合你们设定的20%到25%的长期账户增长目标来看?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, simply put, just as I said, the worse the economic backdrop, the faster our accounts grew. That's why I'm saying it's an upside down situation.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
简单来说,正如我刚才所说,宏观经济环境越糟糕,我们的账户增长反而越快。这就是我说“这是一个颠倒的局面”的原因。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So sticking with the 20%, 25% long-term account growth, what components -- what are the components of you reaching that target? I know you've broken them up before.
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
那我们回到你们设定的20%到25%的长期账户增长目标,构成这个增长的要素有哪些?我记得你之前有做过拆分。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, so these are not exact numbers, but combining account numbers and customer equity and revenues, combining all those 3 things and distributing that into 3 regions, we see the Americas at 43%, Asia at 34% and Europe and the Middle East together at 23%. Yes, good. Please.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
是的,这些数字不是绝对精确的,但如果综合账户数量、客户资产和收入,并将其按地区划分,我们目前的分布是:美洲占43%,亚洲34%,欧洲和中东加在一起占23%。好的,请继续。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So I wanted to talk about macro sensitivity. It looks like rates may be going down here, maybe you disagree with that. But if rates do go down here, how do you see that impacting your account growth?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
我想进一步问一下宏观敏感性的问题。目前看来利率可能会下行,当然你也可能不这么看。但如果利率真的下调,你认为这会如何影响你们的账户增长?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So we currently -- we always pay qualifying cash deposits, 0.5% on their Fed funds. And that is currently 4.83%. And given that our peers pay practically nothing, that is a strong inducement for people to come and open accounts with us. And so that happens. And of course, the higher rates go, the more that -- the more the difference is and the more accounts we get. And conversely, if rates go down, the lesser that difference becomes and maybe we get fewer accounts. Maybe.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我们目前——始终会向符合条件的现金存款支付比联邦基金利率低50个基点的利息,目前这个利率是4.83%。考虑到我们的同行基本上不支付利息,这对客户来说是一个非常强的吸引力,促使他们来我们这里开户。事实确实如此。当然,利率越高,我们与同行之间的差距就越大,带来的账户增长也越多。反之,如果利率下降,这种差距就会缩小,开户增长也可能减少,也许吧。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Thomas, if you do hit your target of 20%, 25% account growth, how do you see that translating into EPS given kind of flattish macro assumptions given also that your operating margin is quite high track?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
托马斯,如果你们真的实现了20%到25%的账户增长,在当前宏观假设大致持平的情况下,再考虑到你们已经非常高的运营利润率,这样的增长会如何反映在每股收益(EPS)上?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So we don't have such a target. You keep referring to the 20% to 25% target. We don't have a target. Our target is always more. Any number you posit, our target is more. Any number we hit, our target is more. We always want more, but there is no point in saying that, well, I want 22%. So if I get 23%, I stopped working or what. So I always want more. And that's how we get more. So -- but I'm sorry, what was your question?
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我们没有那个所谓的目标。你一直提到20%到25%的增长目标,但我们根本没有设定那样的目标。我们的目标永远是“更多”。你说的任何一个数字,我们的目标都是“比那个更多”。我们实现了某个数字,目标还是“更多”。我们永远想要更进一步。所以设一个比如“我要22%”的目标没有意义,如果最后做到了23%,难道我就不努力了?我们始终追求增长,这正是我们能实现增长的原因。对了,刚才你问的问题是什么来着?
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
I was looking for the -- if you have account growth of 20%, 25%, how do you think that translates into EPS growth under normal market conditions just because your margins are already quite high and you don't buy back stock?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
我是想问,如果你们账户增长达到20%到25%,在正常市场环境下你认为这会如何转化为每股收益的增长?因为你们的利润率已经很高了,而且也没有回购股票。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, aside of the 20% to 25%, whatever the account growth rate is, I think, currently, it's almost 30%, right? But so as we grow, it is -- so our original client base, as many of you may know that we started in this business many decades ago as market makers. And so we started 47 years ago, and I was the first employee of the company.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
无论是20%、25%,还是其他数字,我想我们目前的账户增长率差不多已经接近30%了,对吧?但随着我们不断发展,回头看我们最初的客户群——很多人可能知道,我们几十年前是以做市商身份进入这个行业的。47年前我创办了这家公司,当时我是唯一的一名员工。
And so as we started first with fair value sheets in options. And from there, we move to homemade handheld computers. And from there, we moved -- and they were still not connected. And then from that, we moved to connected screens on the exchange floors and -- or driven by a central computer system.
我们最初是从期权定价表开始做起的,然后发展到自制的手持设备,当时这些设备还没联网。接着我们又发展到交易所地面上的联网屏幕,背后由中央计算机系统驱动。
And then from that, we moved to radio waves that people -- our employees were carrying handheld machines that were driven -- connected by radio waves. And that was by -- around the mid-90s. And at that point, in the great capitals of Europe and Asia, there were already electronic exchanges, and we connected to all those so that by the time 2000 -- by the year 2000, where the first electronic exchange opened in Europe, I mean, in the U.S., the ISE, we had this entire worldwide network.
再后来,我们发展到了无线电通信——我们的员工携带的手持终端通过无线电波连接。这是在90年代中期。那时欧洲和亚洲的主要金融中心已经出现了电子交易所,我们接入了所有这些市场。到了2000年,美国第一个电子交易所ISE成立时,我们已经拥有了一个完整的全球网络。
And as our fellow market makers from the floor had to move upstairs, we opened our system up to them as brokers so that they could electronically continue their market-making activities from upstairs. And so they were our basic customers. And from there, we ran in both directions, we tried to reach up to proprietary trading, firms and hedge funds and institutional customers on the one hand and retail and registered investment advisers and introducing brokers on the other.
当其他做市商不得不离开交易大厅、搬到楼上办公时,我们将系统开放给他们,作为他们的经纪平台,让他们可以继续进行电子化的做市业务。他们就是我们最初的客户。从那时起,我们向两个方向扩展:一方面对接自营交易机构、对冲基金和机构客户,另一方面则面向散户、注册投资顾问以及引介经纪商。
So that's how we ended up today as being the electronic broker all over the world for both institutional and retail type of accounts.
这就是我们今天成为全球电子经纪平台,服务机构客户与零售客户的完整发展路径。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Let's move the conversation onto the individual investor segment. So if you look around the world, because your business is very global. Who do you think are your major competitors?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
我们把话题转向个人投资者这个板块。鉴于你们的业务是全球化的,在你看来,目前你们在全球范围内的主要竞争对手是谁?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Major competitors. So correctly -- I think we very correctly positioned ourselves being in between the large investment banks or small investment banks and investment banks in general on the one hand and retail brokers on the other. And so we don't really direct -- we directly in a way, compete with both and neither because we're not exactly like either of them, right? So that's where we are.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
主要竞争对手?我认为我们目前的市场定位非常精准:我们介于大型投行、小型投行及一般意义上的投资银行和零售经纪商之间。某种程度上我们与两者都有竞争关系,但我们并不完全属于这两个阵营中的任何一个。所以我们实际上是两边都不是,但又都可以竞争的存在。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So one of the -- actually, the largest U.S. online broker is going through an integration of an acquisition with its active trader business in a couple of months. Is this an opportunity for you to pick up share in your active trader business?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
美国最大的在线券商之一即将把它的活跃交易业务并入其整体平台,这项整合将在几个月内完成。这对你们来说是否是一个在活跃交易客户方面扩大市场份额的机会?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, of course, every change in the industry is an opportunity. But this specific one may not be because we understand that Schwab aims to retain the TD Ameritrade frequent trader platform that they have. So I don't know if anybody will have to move from there. But if they do, they certainly will move to us.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
当然,行业中的任何变化都可能意味着机会。但就这一特定案例而言,未必如此。因为据我们了解,嘉信(Schwab)打算保留TD Ameritrade的活跃交易平台。因此我不知道是否真的会有客户因此需要迁移。但如果他们真的要换平台,那他们肯定会来找我们。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So big picture question. As you look at the U.S., Europe, Asia, you think about your economic growth kind of forecast in those regions. You think about your penetration, which of those big markets -- I know there's many little countries in there, which are those big markets are you most excited about in terms of long-term growth?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
换个宏观层面的问题来看。当你纵观美国、欧洲和亚洲这些地区,结合它们的经济增长前景和你们目前的渗透率,你对哪些“大市场”的长期增长最为看好?当然我知道每个地区都由很多小国组成,但从大的区域看,你最期待哪些?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So just as we do not have global growth targets, we don't have regional targets either. But we are in a lucky situation where we have customers in every corner in the world because as I said to our employees many years ago, envision a situation where you want to put the world on fire. So you have 2 ways to go about it. You create a fire somewhere and start growing it, right?
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我们就像没有全球增长目标一样,也没有具体的区域增长目标。但我们的幸运之处在于,我们在全球各个角落都有客户。我曾在很多年前对员工说过一个比喻:如果你想“点燃全世界”,那有两种方式。第一种是在某个地方点起一把火,然后让它蔓延开来,对吧?
The other way to do it is to create little points of fire in 200 different places and then slowly start growing them. So the first alternative certainly is much easier and faster at the beginning. But the second is eventually going to start picking up speed. And then it's eventually going to take over the first one. And I think we are now at the point where that is happening. Our growth is now at the point where it is going to get really fast.
另一种方式是:在全球200个地方同时点起小火种,然后慢慢把它们培育成长。第一种方式起步简单且初期增长更快,但第二种方式最终会提速,并在后期超越前者。我认为我们目前正处在这种转折点上——我们的增长即将迎来真正的加速期。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So Thomas, sometimes I hear from users of your platform that the technology can be a little more difficult. Sometimes I hear that client service may be a little more challenging. Also, you don't have brick-and-mortar branches. And what I'm getting at is how do you improve your penetration with U.S. mainstream investors?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
托马斯,我有时会听到一些你们平台用户反馈说你们的技术界面有点复杂,也有说客户服务相对来说不太容易接触到。此外,你们没有实体网点。我的意思是,你们打算如何进一步提高在美国主流投资者群体中的渗透率?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So maybe you folks know that we have -- for over 4 years now, we have a new CEO. And he is very focused on this issue. So as a result, we are about this week or next week, we are releasing our new trader workstation, which has been the mainstay of our platform for the past 3 decades.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
或许你们知道,我们在过去四年中换了新的CEO,他对这个问题非常关注。正因为如此,我们将在本周或下周推出新版的 Trader Workstation——这是我们平台过去30年来的核心工具。
And we are really extremely enthusiastic about this new release. And so I would encourage you all to try and take a look at it. What was the question? Yes. And of course, I think when you heard that our customer service may not be as good as others, that, of course, must have been some years ago now.
我们对这次的新版本非常兴奋。我鼓励你们都去体验一下。你刚才问什么来着?哦,对了,关于客户服务的问题——我认为如果你听说我们的客服不如其他同行,那肯定是好几年前的事了。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Well, I think one challenge though is your client base is so global, you need to help clients...
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
我觉得一个挑战是你们的客户群太全球化了,你们需要去帮助来自各地的客户……
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Yes. So we have 24-hour a day customer service, and we have customer service in something like 15 languages. So it's -- it certainly is a much greater task to maintain this entire system and the customer service and the compliance with all the different rules around the world and the tax rules around the world, I mean it's a very big challenge. And we are continuously automating \[indiscernible] parts of this.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
是的。我们提供全天候24小时的客户服务,并支持大约15种语言的服务。这确实是一个庞大的系统运营任务——要维护整个系统、提供全球范围内的客户支持,同时还要符合各国不同的合规和税务规定,这确实是巨大的挑战。我们正在持续将这其中的各个部分进行自动化处理。
So that once we bring something in, it always -- we either do it or we don't do it. But if we do it, it's automated. So I think this is going very well. And as I said, we are at the point now where we really feel very comfortable about taking up on very large entities.
所以我们的理念是,一旦我们决定做某件事,就要么不做,要么就彻底自动化执行。所以我觉得这方面目前做得很好。正如我之前说的,我们现在已经到了可以自信地承接非常大型客户和机构的阶段。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Thomas, we've seen a very fast ramp over the last 18 months from 0 DTE SPX contracts. And I'm wondering, do you see this more as a Fed and potentially volume shift back to equities? Or do you think this is sort of what we'll see over the long term?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
托马斯,过去18个月我们看到0天到期(0 DTE)的标普500期权合约交易量迅速增长。你认为这是受美联储推动导致资金回流股票市场,还是说这将成为长期趋势?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So no, it's not a Fed because the fact is that options volumes have been increasing for 53 years and the CBOE started 53 years ago, and it is still just not well understood around the world. In the United States, it has not really taken off. But it took 50 years. So now it's beginning in Europe and Asia, and that's going to be really a very, very big deal.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
不,这不是因为美联储。事实上,期权交易量已经持续增长了53年,自芝加哥期权交易所(CBOE)成立以来已有53年了。但即便如此,期权在全球范围内仍未被广泛理解。在美国,它其实也是用了近50年才真正发展起来。而现在,期权交易正在开始在欧洲和亚洲普及,这将会成为非常、非常重要的一件事。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So the Magnificent Seven large-cap stocks have really dominated the index performance. Do you have any thoughts on this trend?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
目前那“七大巨头”大型科技股几乎主导了整个股指的表现。你对这个趋势怎么看?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Sure. So I've been around for many decades. So what I have observed is that when technology develops and grows in spurts. So when there is a sudden growth spurt, then the leadership narrows. And when the growth slows, then it broadens out and more and more companies come to adopt the new technology.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
当然可以。我在这个行业干了几十年了,我的观察是:科技的发展总是呈阶段性爆发。当技术出现一波快速增长时,市场的“领导者”会集中变少。而当技术扩张速度放缓,领导层会重新扩展,越来越多的公司会开始采用这项新技术。
And some companies -- and there are many new companies that are formed directly builds on to this new technology. And the companies that do not adapt, fade away. And then the entire cycle restarts. And we have had this about 2, 3, 4 times in my career.
与此同时,也会有许多全新公司直接基于这些新技术而诞生。而那些无法适应的旧公司则会慢慢淡出。然后整个周期重新开始。在我的职业生涯中,这种情况大概已经经历了两到四次。
So if I were an investor, I would look at what are -- which are those companies that are most likely to be able to adopt these new technologies, which are the companies that are in fields where the new technology is most relevant to, which are those industries where the technology is most relevant to. And among those companies which ones -- which are the ones that have the greatest runway ahead of them. And if I think about it, one company, in particular, comes to mind.
所以如果我是一个投资者,我会关注哪些公司最有可能成功采用这些新技术,哪些公司所处的行业与新技术最为相关,哪些公司面临的技术转型机会最大。在这些公司中,又有哪些拥有最长的“成长跑道”。如果让我选,我脑海中已经浮现出一个特别的公司。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Do you want to share which one that is?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
你愿意透露你指的是哪家公司吗?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Interactive Brokers, of course.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
当然是盈透证券(Interactive Brokers)。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Thomas, let's shift on to the income statement. Given the very short duration of your assets, I know this has benefited you over the last couple of years with the Fed rate hikes, but we may be getting a reverse on that. So how should we think about the impact to EPS from future rate cuts? And please feel free to share, do you think there's any natural hedges in the business?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
托马斯,我们来谈谈损益表。鉴于你们资产久期非常短,这在过去几年美联储加息期间为你们带来了好处,但现在可能即将迎来反转。我们该如何看待未来降息对每股收益(EPS)的影响?另外,如果你认为公司业务中存在任何自然对冲的部分,也欢迎分享。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
As I've said before, it's well known that 1% reduction in interest rates results in a \$300 million diminution in our income. I think that -- so we expect 3 quarter cuts this year and maybe 1 or 2 next year. And I think that our organic growth will outpace that. So we're not worried about it.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
就像我之前说的,大家都知道利率每下降1个百分点,我们的收入大概会减少3亿美元。我们预计今年会有三个季度各减息一次,明年可能还会有一到两次。但我认为我们的有机增长会超过这些影响,所以我们并不担心。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Have you noticed a negative correlation between net interest income and commissions over the year? So could we get an improving activity rate with higher commissions to also offset any declines in net interest income?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
你有没有注意到净利息收入和佣金之间长期是否存在负相关?换句话说,市场活跃度提高,佣金增加,是否能在一定程度上抵消净利息收入的下降?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
I never noticed the correlation between interest rates and commission income. What I do know is that when there is a precipitous decline in the markets, commission income picks up. But then once the market settles down at a much lower level, there is a long period of very slow commissions and commissions contract and that's the time when people like us have the opportunity to really turn away from the day-to-day and just really work on development for the next cycle of the good markets.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我倒是从未注意过利率与佣金收入之间的相关性。我所知道的是,每当市场出现剧烈下跌时,佣金收入就会上升。但一旦市场稳定在一个较低的水平上,佣金收入就会陷入一段长期的低迷。这时候,对于我们这样的公司来说,正是一个放下日常事务、专注于下一轮牛市周期中产品和技术开发的好时机。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Thomas, your balance sheet is pretty simple today. You have \$14 billion of equity. You have 0 debt and \$4 billion of cash. So what do...
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
托马斯,你们当前的资产负债表非常简单:140亿美元的股东权益,没有负债,还有40亿美元的现金。那么你们……
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Wait a minute, so we have \$14 billion, yes, \$14 billion plus, yes. But why do you say 0 cash?
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
等一下,我们的确有140多亿美元没错。但你为什么说我们只有零现金?
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
0 debt.
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
我是说零负债。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
0 debt and \$4 billion of cash. We have \$14 billion of cash.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
是的,我们是零负债,有40亿美元的“可用现金”?不,我们一共有140亿美元的现金。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
\$4 billion of free cash, I thought.
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
我以为你们是有40亿美元的自由现金流(free cash)。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Free, you mean cash that we do not use for -- well, we have some regulatory cash requirement. It's not really \$10 billion, maybe \$6 billion. So we have a lot of cash.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
你说的“自由现金”,是指我们没有拿来用的那部分现金?我们确实有一些监管现金要求,但不是100亿美元,大概是60亿美元。所以我们还是有很多现金的。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Okay. We have a lot of cash. What are your plans for future free cash flow generation and the \$14 billion? What would you like to do with that?
克雷格·西根塔勒 美国银行证券部
明白了,贵公司确实持有大量现金。那么你们未来的自由现金流计划和这140亿美元的资金有何打算?你希望如何使用这些资金?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, we're still not as big as, say, Goldman or Morgan Stanley or UBS, right? So we still have to contend with the idea of not being accepted by hedge funds and institutional investors as even though I think that we are more -- we are less risky to have large assets deposited with mostly because we do not have over-the-counter positions on -- I remember in 2008, the day before the Fed came out and gave everybody \$20 billion to \$25 billion, the day before that. So we went public in 2007. We had \$4 billion of cash in 2008. We had -- still have the \$4 billion plus what we have earned in that period.
托马斯·彼得菲 创始人兼董事长
我们现在还没有高盛、摩根士丹利或瑞银那么大,对吧?所以我们仍然面临一个问题,就是对冲基金和机构投资者还不完全接受我们。尽管我认为我们实际上是更安全的资产托管对象,主要是因为我们没有场外交易头寸。我记得在2008年,在美联储出手、向各大金融机构注资200亿到250亿美元的前一天——我们是在2007年上市的,到了2008年,我们账上有40亿美元现金,而且之后我们还持续盈利。
And on the day when everybody got that cash the day before, we were the largest financial institution of Wall Street because we had all of our cash and we had no obligations whatsoever. And everybody else, of course, they couldn't figure out who them -- how much and who was able to pay and who wasn't. And that is always a problem with this over-the-counter positions.
就在那天,在所有其他机构获得注资之前,我们其实是华尔街上资产最雄厚的金融机构,因为我们手上全是现金,而且完全没有负债。而其他机构的问题在于,没人能搞清楚谁欠谁多少钱、谁能付款、谁不能。而这正是场外交易头寸的老问题。
You never know there are the -- you never know -- they are so interwoven these positions that you never know if there is just one person like in this case was Lehman Brothers, who may not be able to pay and it wasn't able to pay. You don't know how to sort itself out through the system. So it's a problem when your counterparty has over the counter positions and there is a crash, you have a problem.
这些头寸彼此交错得非常复杂,你永远搞不清楚是否有某个对手方,比如在这次就是雷曼兄弟,无法付款而最终违约。你也无法预测这些风险会如何在系统中传导。因此,当你的对手方持有大量场外交易头寸并且市场出现崩盘时,你就会陷入严重麻烦。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So the \$14 billion helps you sleep at night?
所以这140亿美元让您晚上能睡得安稳?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Yes. It also gives us, of course, the opportunity to look at potential acquisitions. And these acquisitions generally emerge at the time when there is a crash.
是的。当然,这也为我们提供了寻找潜在收购机会的条件。而这些收购机会通常是在市场崩盘时出现的。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So you spoke more openly about evaluating acquisitions on the last earnings call. I don't know if anything changed, but you shared with us that you were looking at transactions. I think 2 of them in particular, price was too high, but that might be your close. Was the last deal you did, the Folio Assets...
在上一次财报电话会议上,您谈到正在评估一些收购机会,比以往更为坦率。我不确定现在是否有变化,但您当时提到正在研究几笔交易。我记得其中两笔价格太高,您可能接近成交。您上一次完成的交易,是关于Folio资产的那一笔吗?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Folio, it's a very tiny deal. Yes, yes. It was not anything significant.
Folio,那是一笔非常小的交易。是的,是的。不算什么重大事项。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Okay. So what are the qualities around targets that you're looking for? Like what are you looking to achieve through M\&A?
好的,那您在寻找并购目标时,看重哪些特质?您希望通过并购实现什么样的目标?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, first of all, we would look at companies with a lot of accounts that are similar in profile to the kind of accounts we have. And so companies that have -- whether it's a takeover or a merger, I more would look at mergers because these little companies doesn't make much sense to fool around with. Large companies are often larger than our sales.
首先,我们会寻找那些拥有大量账户,而且这些账户与我们现有客户特征相似的公司。不管是收购还是合并,我更倾向于合并,因为那些小公司不值得我们花精力去折腾。而大公司往往在收入上还超过我们。
So I don't quite know how that would work out. But we don't really need any of these corporate mergers because we could just any large -- so we have -- our profit margin is \[ 72 ] in the low 70s, right? Competitors' profit margins are in the 30s and 40s. So if we would get together with somebody and that other institution, we could raise their profit margin to -- with our technology to anywhere near where we are. That, of course, would make a hell of a difference for the combined company.
所以我也不确定这种事情是否会真的发生。但说实话,我们并不真的需要进行这种企业合并。我们自己的利润率在70%出头,而竞争对手的利润率通常只有30%到40%。如果我们和某家机构合作,利用我们的技术将他们的利润率提升到接近我们的水平,那对合并后的公司自然会带来巨大价值。
But I don't think we need to necessarily merge or do anything like that for that because respectfully, even your firm, would greatly benefit by becoming an introducing broker to us, right? So there's no reason to really merge here, right?
但我认为我们并不需要通过合并来实现这一点。说句实话,就连你们公司如果成为我们的引介经纪人,也会从中获得巨大好处,对吧?所以根本没有必要去合并,对吧?
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So I want to talk about market making. You used to be in this business, you have your SX smart router kind of already there. You have option trading venue. Why isn't this a business that you eventually get back in? I think you talked about this in our earnings call about a year ago. But could you get back into the marketing making business in the future?
我想聊一下做市业务。你们以前就在这个领域,而且你们有SX智能路由器,还有期权交易平台。那为什么不重新进入这个行业呢?我记得大概一年前的财报电话会上您也谈过这个话题。未来有没有可能重新涉足做市业务?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So we have a lot of very attractive things in front of us that we can work on and this would not be one them.
我们面前还有很多非常有吸引力的事情可以去做,而做市业务并不在其中。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So I noticed there was a pickup in insider sales at IB here over the last 6 months. And I know all of your partners and you have a considerable amount of net worth in the IB here stock. And actually, liquidity isn't that bad. I mean the stock actually use more liquidity, so more of my clients could buy the stock. But how does the company handle insider selling?
我注意到过去六个月,IB内部人员的股票出售有所增加。我知道您和您的合伙人们在IB股票上都有大量净资产。其实这个股票的流动性也不算差,说实话,若是流动性再高一点,我的客户还能买得更多。那么公司是如何处理内部人员卖股的?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So we have this, what is it called?
我们有这个机制,叫什么来着?
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
10b-5.
10b5-1计划。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
10b-5. Yes. And whenever somebody -- we still own 74.5% of the firm. And whenever we -- anybody makes a sale, we see the next day after the sale is published, the stock immediately gets hammered. So it's very clear to me that there are some folks who must have some algos that constantly read the news and when there is an insider trade, their algorithm quickly sells their stock. But these algos never work forever.
10b-5,对。我们目前仍持有公司74.5%的股份。每当我们——任何一个人出售股份,第二天交易信息一公开,股价就立刻被打压。所以很明显,有些人一定是设了某种算法,不断读取新闻,一旦发现内部人员交易,他们的程序就迅速抛售股票。但这种算法不可能永远有效。
And I think it's about the time that the last time I saw this happening that's when our stock really bounced up and somebody sold and then suddenly stock \[indiscernible]. So it's not a full proof algorithm. But you want to know about -- what is your next question.
我记得上一次看到这种情况发生时,我们的股价其实强劲反弹了,有人卖出之后股价却突然……所以这算法并不可靠。你接下来想问什么来着?
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So the next question is, so you were selling a little bit. I think you stopped in January, now you're obviously the largest owner. So if you sold, you can really benefit liquidity. Why did you stop?
我接下来的问题是:您之前确实有一些出售,但我记得您从1月开始就停止了。现在您显然还是最大股东,如果您出售,确实可以改善流动性。那您为什么停了呢?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
I guess, so the stock was way too cheap and I didn't want to sell it at that price.
我想,是因为那时候股价太低了,我不想在那个价位卖出。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So I wanted to come back to the hedge fund prime business...
我想回到对冲基金主经纪业务这个话题……
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
But if I may say, so as the stock is getting more -- coming closer to fair value, maybe -- and given these crazy algorithms, if I were to sell something, I'm sure they would \[ thrash ] the stock. So if any one of you has an interest in, say, in a block of 5 million shares or so and the price keeps going a little further, give me a call, maybe you have a receptive ears on the other end of the phone.
如果我可以说一句,随着股价越来越接近公允价值,也许——考虑到这些疯狂的算法,如果我现在出售股份,我敢肯定他们会猛砸股价。所以,如果在座的任何一位对大概500万股的交易感兴趣,而价格又继续上涨一点点,不妨给我打个电话,也许电话那头会有人愿意听听。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So let's move back to the hedge fund prime business. You were talking about gaining share, moving upstream. Is \$14 billion of capital enough to compete with the big banks and move upstream and win larger hedge funds because a lot of your hedge funds, I believe, are quite small?
我们回到对冲基金主经纪业务的话题。您之前提到正在争取市占率、向上游客户拓展。那么您认为140亿美元的资本是否足以与大型银行竞争、向上游发展并争取更大型的对冲基金客户?因为我印象中你们目前的对冲基金客户很多都比较小。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, \$14 billion is certainly enough to win the hedge funds we are winning, but again, larger hedge funds, it's not -- so it's not as much the capital anymore. So we have several advantages because we have -- relative to others. And it's not only the short availability and the better interest rates, but it's also -- we do not trade with a large order or ahead of a large order.
140亿美元当然足以支持我们目前正在赢得的那些对冲基金客户。但对更大的对冲基金而言,资本其实不再是最关键的问题了。我们在多个方面相较其他竞争对手有优势。不仅是借券的可得性和更有竞争力的利率,我们还有一点很重要——我们不会抢先于大订单进行交易,也不会用大订单进行自营交易。
So we really provide a better execution, and we now have the ability to receive a large order and cross it against all of our other orders inside our ATS. So we really can provide a better execution, not only to the 5 million share block whether it will come from me, but any other block. And so...
所以我们能够提供更好的执行效率。我们现在还具备处理大宗订单,并将其与我们ATS系统中其他订单进行撮合的能力。因此,我们确实可以为任何大宗订单——不论是我提到的500万股,还是其他来源——提供更好的执行质量。接着……
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
So at this moment, Thomas, let's see if there's any questions from the audience. So please raise your hand. We have a mic here, so everyone can hear you.
那我们现在看看现场有没有问题要问Thomas的。请举手,我们这里有麦克风,方便大家听到你的问题。
Unknown Analyst
So the breadth of the countries and markets that you offer trading in is extraordinarily wide versus competitors. And I believe you've mentioned before a lot of this has to do with your ability to automate back-office functions like tax and compliance. Why do you think a lot of competitors, especially ones that have scale don't compete or aren't able to compete in those markets?
你们提供交易服务的国家和市场覆盖范围远远超过竞争对手。我记得您以前提到,这主要得益于你们在税务和合规等后台功能上的自动化能力。您怎么看那些有规模的竞争对手为什么不进入这些市场?是不能进入还是不愿进入?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, they are not able to compete because they haven't built out that capacity. Some firms that have built it out are not centralized. So it's like they basically have the same name and the same parent organization, but they are not at all coordinated. So we have experience with some competitors that are really everywhere where we are. But they are not integrated in any sense.
他们之所以无法竞争,是因为他们根本没有建立起这方面的能力。有些公司虽然建立了一些系统,但并不集中化。它们可能用的是同一个名字、同一个母公司,但实际上彼此之间毫无协同。我们有些竞争对手在全球的业务范围和我们差不多,但却毫无整合可言。
So as a result, our technology enabled us to -- enables us to give that provided service as much lower rates and much more efficiently. And that nobody seems to want to undertake so far. And I don't know why nobody is doing what we're doing. If anything, people are moving away from that. And so we have seen a number of companies that -- the day we opened in Singapore was about a week after Schwab closed down in Singapore. So I don't know why they don't do it, but they don't do it, and I don't mind that they don't do it.
因此,我们的技术使得我们能够以更低的成本、更高的效率提供这些服务。而目前为止,似乎没有人愿意去做这样的事情。我不明白为什么没人像我们这样做。事实上,有些公司甚至正在退出这些市场。我们进入新加坡的那天,正好是在嘉信(Schwab)关闭新加坡业务后一周。所以我不知道他们为什么不做,但他们不做,我也不介意他们不做。

明显有市场需求的领域,也确实没什么美国本土券商愿意做这个业务,这对中国的券商是一个机会。
Unknown Analyst
Could you tell me a little bit about how you embed know your customer?
您能谈一谈你们是如何落实“了解你的客户”(KYC)流程的吗?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Sorry.
抱歉,我没听清。
Unknown Analyst
So could you tell me a little bit about how you -- you have clients globally. How do you manage to ensure that you're not transacting for what might be sanctioned individuals. How do you generate the right know your customer procedures in a world in which there are a lot of sanctioned individuals?
就是想问,既然你们拥有全球客户,你们是如何确保不会与受制裁人士进行交易的?在如今这种存在大量受制裁个人的世界里,你们是如何建立并落实合规的KYC流程的?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
So do you understand?
你明白他的问题吗?
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
He said, how do you know your customers around the world, especially maybe of similar sanction?
他说的是,你们如何在全球范围内“了解你的客户”,尤其是如何识别那些可能被制裁的客户?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, that's a very elaborate process. We have over 400 people. We only have 2,900 employees, but we have over 400 of them in the new account department. And so we have, of course, a number of automated systems that look at any new applicants. And then whenever there is any -- whenever there is not sufficient information about a potential customer, then they get conducted by one of our people. And so they do a very, very thorough search on these. And I mean, this is one of the biggest issues now in the business, basically.
这是一个非常复杂的流程。我们一共只有2900名员工,但在新账户部门就有超过400人。当然,我们也有很多自动化系统来审查每一位新客户申请人。一旦系统发现某位潜在客户的信息不够充分,就会由我们的一位员工进行人工联系和审查。他们会做非常、非常彻底的背景调查。老实说,这基本上是当前整个行业最重要的问题之一。
Unknown Analyst
But just to ask some further questions. Are there countries which you rule out doing business in, a; and b, how would you -- if I was a sanctioned individual, and I provided you with a false passport or a different passport, if I was a sanctioned Russian living in Israel, for example, how would you ensure that you were not trading for me?
我再追问两个问题。第一,你们有没有明确禁止与某些国家开展业务?第二,如果我是一个受制裁的个人,向你们提供了假护照或使用了其他国家护照,比如我是一个受制裁的俄罗斯人但住在以色列,你们如何确保不会替我进行交易?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Well, if we can't identify you, we won't open their account. So you would have to take on the \[ personal ] of an actual person that exists, right, who is not you, right? And then we would have to look in the record. We look -- we read thousands of newspapers, not personal, but electronically, right? So we have a very large database of everybody.
如果我们无法识别你,我们就不会为你开户。所以你得冒充另一个真实存在的人,对吧?那个人不是你。然后我们会查阅记录。我们会“阅读”成千上万份报纸,不是人工阅读,而是通过电子方式。所以我们有一个非常庞大的数据库,涵盖了各类人物信息。
So if you are a sanctioned person and you work in as somebody else who -- there is nothing known about and you are coming from a country successfully in a country like the United States, maybe you can get through. I mean, there is nothing that -- if you can take -- steal the identity of somebody who lives in the United States, you can probably get through.
所以,如果你是一个受制裁的人,但冒用了一个没有任何负面记录的他人身份,而且你还来自一个像美国这样的国家,也许你真的能蒙混过关。我的意思是,如果你能够成功盗用一个住在美国的人的身份,你大概确实可能混过去。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Great. We will end it there. So Thomas, thank you very much for your time. On behalf of all of us from Bank of America, we appreciate this.
好的,那我们就到这里结束吧。Thomas,非常感谢您抽时间接受访问。我们代表美国银行全体同仁,向您表示感谢。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thank you.
谢谢。
Craig Siegenthaler BofA Securities
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thank you.
谢谢。