2025-03-18 Visa Inc. (V) Bank of America Electronic Payments Symposium (Transcript)
Call Start: 08:10 January 1, 0000 8:57 AM ET
Visa Inc. (NYSE:V)
Bank of America Electronic Payments Symposium
March 18, 2025 08:10 AM ET
Company Participants
Lisa Ellis - Global Head of Strategy
Conference Call Participants
Jason Kupferberg - Bank of America
Jason Kupferberg
[Call Starts Abruptly] dive right in and I'm happy to welcome Lisa Ellis from Visa. Thank you for being here, Lisa.
【通话突然开始】直接切入，我很高兴欢迎来自Visa的Lisa Ellis。感谢你的到来，Lisa。
Lisa Ellis
Sure. Thank you.
当然。谢谢你。
Jason Kupferberg
We appreciate it. So for those of you who might be a little bit less familiar, Lisa's been at Visa for a little over a year now. She's the Global Head of Strategy, and prior to that she was a sell-side analyst covering the payment space for about 10 years. She was a partner at McKinsey. So not sure how it feels to sit on in that seat instead of this seat, but we're happy to have you here and you've got some really interesting perspective. You've now looked at Visa through multiple lenses over a long period of time. How has your view of Visa evolved?
我们非常感激。对于可能不太熟悉的各位来说，Lisa在Visa工作已有一年多的时间。她现任全球战略主管，此前作为卖方分析师，专注于支付领域约十年，并曾是麦肯锡的合伙人。不知道从坐在这个位置上感觉如何与过去那种角色相比，但我们很高兴你能来到这里，并且你拥有非常有趣的见解。你已经从多个角度、长时间观察过Visa。你对Visa的看法是如何演变的？
Lisa Ellis
Yes, it's a good question and it is, and not quite sure yet if it's harder to sit in this seat or sit in that seat. But as you said, I joined Visa now a little over a year ago to run global strategy, covered Visa as a Wall Street analyst for a decade prior to that, and was a partner at McKinsey prior to that. So I've looked at Visa through a number of lenses over the years.
是的，这是个好问题，而且确实如此，我还不太确定坐在现在这个位置上是否比之前那个位置更困难。但正如你所说，我在一年多前加入Visa负责全球战略，此前作为华尔街分析师研究Visa达十年之久，并且在那之前曾是麦肯锡的合伙人。因此，多年来我从多个角度审视过Visa。
A couple of things and this also speaks to sort of why I made the decision to join Visa. One and it's hard to appreciate this I think until you're inside a Visa, is just the extraordinary scale of Visa and the power that that brings in an industry where there's tremendous network effects and tremendous benefits from scale and reach.
有几点值得说明，这也解释了我为什么决定加入Visa。其中之一——我认为只有置身Visa内部才能真正体会到——就是Visa那非凡的规模以及在一个具有巨大网络效应和规模及覆盖优势的行业中所带来的力量。
You all know the numbers, but I'll repeat them again, over $16 trillion in payment volume in 2024, over $300 billion total transactions, Visa operates across 200 countries and territories. And with that comes an unbelievable amount of data that we can then use to both drive better fraud protection, et cetera, better authorization rates in the payment space, but also leverage that data in a number of different ways.
大家都知道这些数字，但我再重复一遍：到2024年，支付交易量超过16万亿美元，总交易额超过3000亿美元，Visa业务遍及200个国家和地区。由此产生了海量数据，我们既可利用这些数据提升反欺诈等安全防护及授权成功率，也能以多种方式加以利用。
And I think, and we'll talk about this I think a bit more, but the power that scale brings when it comes to enabling our clients across the ecosystem, whether those are banks or fintechs, big tech, et cetera, is really unparalleled in a major differentiator of Visa.
我认为，规模所带来的力量在赋能整个生态系统的客户（无论是银行、金融科技公司还是大型科技企业等）方面，确实是Visa的一大独特优势，我们稍后还会详细讨论这一点。
And then just more on the softer side, I guess I'd say, the culture is again, is something that's hard to appreciate from the outside, but I found joining Visa that the culture was even better than I anticipated. It's extraordinary -- extraordinarily like high performance, but at the same time, very collaborative, very innovative, very flexible, like really does feel like the tech side of a fintech company.
另外，从更柔软的方面来说，我想说的是，企业文化外人难以体会，但我加入Visa后发现，这里的文化比我预期的还要好。它非凡——极具高效表现，同时又十分协作、富有创新性、非常灵活，真有种像金融科技公司技术部门的感觉。
Question-and-Answer Session
问答环节
Jason Kupferberg
Excellent. So maybe just talk to us a little bit about, your day-to-day, your purview, your responsibilities. Because I know, Visa's got a pretty robust strategy organization.
非常好。那么请你谈谈你的日常工作、工作范围以及职责。因为我知道，Visa拥有一个相当强大的战略部门。
Lisa Ellis
Yes, sure. So I run global strategy for Visa. So that means that I have a number of sub-teams that sit underneath me globally, one in each region. So I have teams in each of our major regions around the world, and also a corporate team, that handles a lot of strategic topics on a longer term time horizon. So think 5 to 10 years plus.
当然可以。我负责Visa的全球战略，这意味着我在全球各区域都有下属团队，同时还有一个负责处理长期（5到10年以上）战略议题的企业团队。
The reason or the impetus for me joining Visa, I was part of Ryan McInerney transition to CEO, as he was sort of restructuring his leadership team, wanted to bring in a new head of strategy with a specific purpose to refresh the long-term strategy of Visa. That's a natural thing for new CEOs to do, but also something we at Visa had not done since prior to the pandemic. And you all had the benefit of seeing the first sort of external glimpses of that at Investor Day just a few weeks ago.
我加入Visa的原因或动力，是在Ryan McInerney向CEO过渡时，我参与了他的领导团队重组，他希望引进一位全新的战略主管，专门负责刷新Visa的长期战略。这是新CEO常做的事，但也是Visa自疫情前以来未曾做过的。各位几周前在投资者日上已经初见端倪。
Jason Kupferberg
Yeah, well, that's a good segue, because I think the timing of this chat is appropriate, considering that you did just have the Investor Day, and it was chock full of presentations. If some of you haven't had a chance to hear it or see it, I would recommend having a listen. I mean, there were a lot of strategic messages shared that day, but what would you say, or maybe the two or three that were most critical that you really want to make sure the investment community internalizes?
嗯，这是个很好的过渡，我认为这次对话的时机非常合适，考虑到你们刚刚举办了投资者日，并且展示了大量的演讲内容。如果有些人还没来得及听或看，我建议大家去关注一下。那天传达了许多战略信息，但你认为其中哪两三点最为关键，必须让投资界牢记？
Lisa Ellis
Yeah, I'll hit three. So one, just a reminder that Visa is truly one of the best businesses in the world. We're the number one payments brand. We're the number seven global brand, period. And in an industry that centers around trust and security, brand really matters. We have extraordinary scale, as I just highlighted earlier.
好的，我总结三个。第一，提醒大家Visa确实是世界上最优秀的企业之一。我们是支付领域的头号品牌，也是全球排名第七的品牌。在一个以信任和安全为核心的行业中，品牌至关重要。正如我之前强调的，我们拥有非凡的规模。
And those things come together to deliver very strong consistent sustained financial results, as we've demonstrated over a lengthy period of time. Our strategy at Visa is centered around four major strategic objectives, as we discussed at Investor Day. One is to continue to strengthen and extend our position in card-based consumer payments. This is the core of Visa, and we still see tremendous growth runway around the world in card-based consumer payments.
这些优势共同作用，长期内为我们带来强劲而持续的财务表现。正如我们在投资者日讨论的那样，Visa的战略围绕四个主要目标展开。第一是持续巩固和扩展我们在基于卡的消费者支付领域的地位。这是Visa的核心，我们依然看到全球基于卡的消费者支付有着巨大的增长空间。
Two is to expand and extend our reach also into segments of consumer payments currently served by non-card means. There's tremendous opportunity from areas like ACH-based payments, but also some of the more -- like newer technologies, like RTP or A2A payments, where we see tremendous opportunity.
第二是将我们的触角延伸至当前由非卡支付方式服务的消费者支付领域。从ACH支付等领域乃至更先进的技术，如RTP或A2A支付，我们都看到了巨大的机遇。
Third is centered around expanding our business into commercial payments and global money movement. And fourth, and finally, is to deepen our relationships with our clients by delivering them differentiated value-added services. So really a four-part strategy that we discussed at length at Investor Day.
第三是扩展我们的业务进入商业支付和全球资金流动领域。第四，也是最后一项，是通过提供差异化的增值服务来深化我们与客户的关系。这便是我们在投资者日上详细讨论的四大战略。
And then the last thing I'll just highlight, which we also introduced, was really this concept, and the way we recommend thinking about Visa as a technology business, is really this concept around the Visa Payment Stack. We have, over the last decade or so, been restructuring the technology of Visa around a Visa Payment Stack, with our network assets at the base, a platform layer in the middle where we expose our capabilities to the developer ecosystem, and then starting to build a set of as-a-service style services on top of that.
接下来我要强调最后一点，也是我们提出的概念，即将Visa视作一家科技企业的方式——Visa支付堆栈的概念。过去十多年里，我们一直在围绕Visa支付堆栈重构Visa的技术架构：底层是我们的网络资产，中间是一层向开发者生态系统开放能力的平台层，顶层则开始构建一系列即服务（as-a-service）模式的服务。
We refer to the whole thing as the Visa payments stack, and the concept behind it as really Visa as a service. It's something we've been building toward over the last decade or so, but it's really starting to come to life with a lot of the -- some of the new as-a-service services that we've been starting to bring out to clients. This is things like risk as a service, disputes as a service, A2A, protect as a service, et cetera.
我们将整个体系称为Visa支付堆栈，其背后的理念则是“Visa即服务”。这是我们过去十多年一直在构建的概念，如今通过陆续推出的新型即服务产品开始逐步实现，包括风险即服务、争议即服务、A2A、保护即服务等。
Jason Kupferberg
So I actually wanted to go a little bit deeper into Visa as a service that seems like an interesting concept, and it does make sense. Maybe just talk about how you're rolling that out, I guess, both to issuers and to merchants, and how do you ultimately see that augmenting Visa's top line growth?
那么，我其实想更深入探讨一下“Visa即服务”这一颇具吸引力的概念。能否谈谈你们是如何向发卡机构和商户推出这一服务，并且你如何看待它对Visa营收增长的推动作用？
Lisa Ellis
Yes, it's a good question and it's useful to sort of like roll back a little bit in the history of how this has come to be over the last decade. So back about a little over 10 years ago. So think of this as the sort of era when Charlie Scharf came in as CEO, one of the things, major strategic shifts he made was to say this was just as the sort of fintech ecosystem was evolving, and we were sort of seeing the explosion of a developer-oriented community of companies, startup companies big tech, everything.
是的，这是个好问题，也有助于回顾过去十多年这一概念是如何逐步形成的。大约十年前，当时正值Charlie Scharf担任CEO之际，他做出的一项重大战略转变就是认识到金融科技生态正在演进，我们看到了以开发者为导向的公司、初创企业、大型科技公司等迅速崛起。
And so he really made a strategic decision to open up Visa's network via an API layer to make it readily accessible on a, like -- on a self-directed basis by the developer community. This was a big strategic shift up until then because of the security required around Visa's network, right, we had a much more closed environment and did essentially custom integrations with all of our clients, and but with modern technology, we could open that up and maintain the security of it. It's hard to overstate how transformational that has been for our business, and something I think is underappreciated. I certainly didn't fully appreciate it until joining Visa.
因此，他做出了战略决策，通过API层开放Visa网络，使开发者社区能够自主接入。此前由于Visa网络的安全要求，我们一直处于一个较为封闭的环境，基本上与每个客户进行定制集成。而凭借现代技术，我们既能开放网络，又能确保安全。这一变革对我们业务的影响难以言表，我认为其价值常被低估，直到我加入Visa时我才真正体会到这一点。
We now have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of companies around the world, whether that ranges from big tech to fintech's banks now as they've built out their digital capabilities, crypto companies, you name it that can directly access the capabilities of Visa via hundreds and hundreds of APIs.
如今，我们在全球拥有成百上千的合作公司，无论是大型科技公司、金融科技银行，还是构建了数字化能力的企业，甚至是加密货币公司，都可以通过数百个API直接接入Visa的能力。
The implication of that is that why would they ever do anything else, right, so we start to see the show up in partnerships like our recently announced partnership with X, for example, where it would've been hard to believe 10, 15, 20 years ago, right, where that the company like X would've opted to partner with Visa rather than building payment capabilities internally.
这意味着，他们为什么还要选择其他方案呢？因此，我们开始看到类似与X公司最近宣布的合作伙伴关系——十、十五、二十年前，像X这样的公司几乎无法想象会选择与Visa合作，而不是自行构建支付能力。
But now, it doesn't make sense for them to do otherwise, because through readily accessible APIs, they can get turnkey access to our global scale, 11 billion endpoints, 4.5 payment credentials, all of the payment capabilities that they can just pop right in to whatever offering they're building.
但现在，借助这些易于接入的API，他们可以轻松获得我们全球化规模、110亿个终端、4.5亿支付凭证以及所有支付功能，直接嵌入到他们构建的任何产品中，这已变得毫无悬念。
So that's I always want to pause on that, because I think that power, the stickiness and the reach and the resilience of the Visa business that comes from this ecosystem of hundreds upon hundreds of innovative partners that are building their own capabilities on top of it is often underappreciated.
这一点总让我忍不住停下来思考，因为这种力量、黏性、覆盖面及Visa业务的韧性，正是来自于这个由无数创新伙伴构成的生态系统，他们在此基础上不断构建自身能力，而这一切常常被低估。
Then roll the clock forward five years later, we launched the network of network strategy, which again, leveraging technology allows us to extend the capabilities of Visa, not only to VisaNet, but also integrate with dozens and dozens of other networks, whether those are other ACH networks, RTPs, et cetera.
再往后推五年，我们推出了“网络中的网络”战略，这一战略同样利用技术让Visa的能力不仅局限于VisaNet，还能整合几十个其他网络，无论是其他ACH网络、RTP等。
We are now connected through to more than 100 different types of networks or wallets around the world, dramatically expanding the reach of our network. And that allows us then to take our capabilities and extend them beyond just the VisaNet set of endpoints to a much broader set of endpoints. We terminate right into 11 billion endpoints around the world. That's Visa credentials, four-and-a-half visa credentials, but billions of other endpoints, whether those are accounts of different flavors.
目前，我们已经与全球100多种不同类型的网络或电子钱包实现互联，大幅扩展了我们网络的覆盖范围。这使得我们的能力不仅仅局限于VisaNet终端，而是延伸到更广泛的终端，总计覆盖全球110亿个终端，其中包括Visa凭证（4.5亿个）以及数十亿种其他类型的账户。
Now that's sort of step two, then you think about, okay, now you've got this extended layer on the base that's got the VisaNet and network of networks. You've got a middle layer of the Visa payments stack, that's a developer-oriented layer with hundreds of APIs.
这算是第二步，现在你可以想象，在基础层上增加了扩展层——包括VisaNet及其网络中的网络，同时还拥有一个由数百个API构成、面向开发者的Visa支付堆栈中间层。
But once you've got API capability, what does that allow you to do? That allows you to build services, our own services as well, not just our clients innovating on our stack, but our own business can now expose and build out what we refer to as Visa as a service, which is unbundled or componentized services on a standalone basis that we can then sell into our client base as often as value-added services.
但一旦具备了API能力，这将使你能够做什么呢？这让你可以构建服务，不仅仅是客户在我们的堆栈上进行创新，我们自身的业务现在也可以构建并推出所谓的“Visa即服务”，这是一种独立拆分或模块化的服务，我们可以将其作为增值服务频繁地销售给我们的客户群体。
So this is some of the most notable ones we've launched recently are things like our risk as a service capabilities, or disputes is another great example. We have fantastic internal disputes capabilities, and we can now componentize that and sell disputes on a network agnostic basis through to our clients. A2A Protect and some of our A2A services are other good examples of doing this. And you can imagine we're just beginning to scratch the surface.
我们最近推出的一些最显著的产品包括“风险即服务”等能力，争议服务也是一个很好的例子。我们拥有出色的内部争议处理能力，现在可以将其模块化，以与网络无关的方式销售给客户。A2A保护及其他A2A服务也是类似的成功案例。你可以想象，我们才刚刚触及这一领域的表面。
Jason Kupferberg
No, it's interesting. I mean, I think people always appreciate Visa's scale and brand, like you said, but then sometimes people forget about the innovation piece, right, and clearly you guys have been very busy at that, and it came across very clearly at the Investor Day. And so now I wanted to do is kind of think about the pieces of Visa's business. You've got consumer payments, you've got the new flows, you've got the value-added services. And I actually wanted to start with value-added services.
不，这很有意思。我认为人们总是赞赏Visa的规模和品牌，如你所说，但有时却会忽略其创新部分，很明显你们在这方面非常忙碌，这在投资者日上体现得淋漓尽致。所以我想谈谈Visa业务的各个部分：消费者支付、新业务流以及增值服务。我其实想从增值服务开始。
I mean, the new disclosures you guys gave were extremely helpful, I think, for the Street. And so if we think about the VAS business today, it's almost 25% of your total revenue. And we got some interesting breakdowns on that, right, 40% from issuing, 28% from the acceptance side, 17% risk and security, 15% from advisory and other.
我的意思是，你们最新披露的信息对于华尔街来说极为有用。如果我们看今天的增值服务（VAS）业务，它几乎占到了你们总收入的25%。而且我们还看到了有趣的细分：其中40%来自发卡、28%来自受理、17%涉及风险与安全、15%来自咨询及其他服务。
Mastercard接近40%。
So you've got some nice diversification within the services business. So I guess where you think about it just strategically, what is Visa's value proposition kind of in those different sub-segments of VAS? And at the end of the day, why does Visa win when it comes to VAS?
所以你们在服务业务中实现了良好的多元化。从战略角度看，你认为Visa在这些不同的增值服务子领域中的价值主张是什么？归根结底，为什么在增值服务领域Visa总能获胜？
Lisa Ellis
So you're right. We are extremely excited about our value-added services business. As you highlighted, it's nearly 25% of our revenues as of 2024 and has grown consistently at a clip of over 20% per year. So, in 2024, what that translates into is nearly $9 billion of our revenue now in value-added services. So it's something we've been at for a long time.
你说得对。我们对增值服务业务非常兴奋。正如你所强调的，截至2024年，它几乎占到了我们收入的25%，并且每年以超过20%的速度持续增长。也就是说，2024年这部分收入接近90亿美元，这是一项我们长期深耕的业务。
We win, just to highlight a couple of ways in which we win in this business. Well, one, of course, through our technology, because as I was just describing, a lot of our value-added services are directly using the technologies that we built as part of VisaNet and are now componentizing those and selling them as standalone services to our clients as highly differentiated capabilities in areas, in particular, like in our risk and fraud and advanced authorization type of services, areas where Visa is an undisputed leader. One.
我们能够胜出的原因有几个方面。第一，当然是依靠我们的技术。正如我刚才所说，我们许多增值服务直接利用了作为VisaNet一部分构建的技术，并将这些技术模块化，作为独立服务销售给客户，尤其是在风险、欺诈和高级授权等领域，Visa在这些领域无可争议地处于领先地位。
The second thing I'd highlight is our relationships, right? A lot of the focus of our value-added services business is to deepen and extend the value that we add to our 14,000, 14,500 clients. They ask us for help on different things all the time. And with our increasing portfolio value-added services, we can bring a richer and richer set of services to really deepen and reinforce those relationships.
第二点我要强调的是我们的客户关系。我们的增值服务业务非常注重深化并扩大我们对大约14,000至14,500家客户提供的价值。客户时常向我们寻求各方面的帮助，而随着我们增值服务产品组合的不断丰富，我们可以提供越来越多的服务，从而真正加深和巩固这些关系。
We bring a very steady stream of new products as we've now architected our platform, as I've described, it's increased the agility and the speed at which we can release new products. We brought 30 to market just last year. Of course, our data access and AI is a major differentiator, particularly as we look around the world where issuers really struggle with security, fraud, protection, et cetera.
我们源源不断地推出新产品。正如我所描述的，我们的平台架构大大提高了产品发布的敏捷性和速度，仅去年就有30款产品上市。当然，我们在数据访问和人工智能方面的优势也是一个重要的差异化因素，尤其是在全球范围内，发卡机构在安全、欺诈防护等方面面临巨大挑战。
And then lastly, and I think one that kind of started to really come out at Investor Day in an area that I did not have as an strong of an appreciation for. When I joined Visa until I joined Visa is around the power of our sponsorship assets. You're all familiar with our sponsorship assets, the Olympics, the FIFA World Cup, more recently, Formula 1, the NFL, et cetera.
最后，还有一点，我认为在投资者日上真正凸显出来，而我之前对这一点并未给予足够重视，那就是我们赞助资产的力量。大家都很熟悉我们的赞助资产：奥运会、世界杯，最近还有一级方程式、NFL等等。
Of course, these are important reinforcers and strengtheners of our brand, but they also drive very direct value for our clients, because around the world, many of our clients do not have the scale to bring differentiated rewards to their higher-end clients themselves. And we are able to do that by leveraging our sponsorship assets in very differentiated and unique ways around the world.
这些无疑不仅是强化我们品牌的重要手段，同时也为我们的客户直接创造价值，因为全球许多客户自身无法达到为高端客户提供差异化回馈的规模，而我们则通过全球范围内以独特方式利用我们的赞助资产来实现这一点。
And so, as I think was a disclosure that I know from some of the commentary and discussions that day was sort of a new thing within our, the issuer part of that portfolio, which as Jason highlighted is the largest piece of our value added services. One of the big parts of that actually is all of our marketing and benefits related services that we provide to our clients around the world.
因此，正如那天讨论中透露的信息，在我们这套产品中，与发卡相关的部分——正如Jason所强调的，它是我们增值服务中最大的一块——其中一个重要部分实际上就是我们为全球客户提供的所有市场营销和福利相关服务。
Jason Kupferberg
How should we think about the margin profile of the different VAS sub-segments?
那么，我们应该如何看待增值服务各子领域的利润率结构呢？
Lisa Ellis
Yes, it's a good question. We get that question a lot. Across the VAS portfolio. One, most of the pieces of the value added services portfolio have economics very similar to the rest of our business. They're network linked services. I think, we disclosed at Investor Day that about two thirds of our VAS revenues of our VAS portfolio is transaction linked just like the core business. And so has the same benefits of scale and the same similar comparable unit economics to the base.
是的，这是个好问题，我们经常会遇到。在整个增值服务产品组合中，大部分业务的经济模型与我们其他业务相似，它们都是与网络紧密相连的服务。我们在投资者日披露，大约三分之二的增值服务收入是与交易直接相关的，与核心业务享有相同的规模效应和相似的单元经济效益。
Now some we do acquire companies, so if they're earlier stage in their development, they may not have that margin profile initially, but structurally their margin profile is comparable. The one piece of the value added services business that is, does have structurally different margins is within the fourth one that you highlighted. The smallest piece, which is our advisory and other business, which is about 15% of VAS and that business, a portion of it, not all of it, because it includes many other things like some of our data services and managed services, et cetera.
有些业务我们是通过收购获得的，所以如果它们处于早期阶段，初期可能不具备那样的利润率，但从结构上看，它们的利润率是相当的。增值服务中唯一在结构上具有不同利润率的部分是你提到的第四部分，即最小的那部分——我们的咨询及其他业务，大约占增值服务的15%，其中只有部分业务是以劳动密集型咨询形式存在，而非全部，因为它还包括我们的一些数据服务和托管服务等。
But there is a piece of it that is our advisory business, which is more labor based advisory, which does structurally have lower margins. But we love that business. That business has a very significant flywheel effect on the rest of our business, because these are teams that go in and work with our issuers to drive things like better authorization rates, higher car usage, develop better programs, deploy our advanced technologies.
其中有一部分，即我们的咨询业务，主要是劳动密集型的顾问服务，结构上利润率较低，但我们非常热爱这一业务。因为这些团队会与我们的发卡机构合作，推动更高的授权率、更高的卡片使用率、制定更好的项目以及部署我们的先进技术，从而对其他业务形成显著的正向循环效应。
There's a tremendous flywheel effect and as you've seen from our results, as I highlighted, our VAS business has grown at a 20% clip over the last three years. It's now almost $9 billion of revenue. And you've seen no deterioration in our company wide margins. So we are very comfortable with our ability to continue to build and grow that business without affecting our margins.
这种正向循环效应十分显著，正如你从我们的业绩中看到的，过去三年中增值服务业务以20%的速度增长，目前收入接近90亿美元，而且公司整体利润率并未因此下降。因此，我们对未来在不影响利润率的前提下继续拓展这项业务充满信心。
Jason Kupferberg
The advisory can be kind of tip of the spear. I would imagine in many cases. So, what about the one-third of VAS that's not linked to transactions? How do you price those services?
我认为，咨询服务在很多情况下可以看作是尖刀。那么，那增值服务中有三分之一的部分并非与交易直接挂钩，这部分服务你们如何定价呢？
Lisa Ellis
Yeah, it's a good question. There are a variety of different ways. Some of them, it just depends on the service. I wouldn't say one model. Some of them are more SaaS oriented businesses, so they're priced on what you think of as a SaaS model, so sort of a per-month or per-user basis. And then some, as I was highlighting, are models that are, if they're more in our, like, benefits portfolio, right, they might be more on, like, a per-card, per-card fee type of thing. We may have some that are more project-based in nature. So I wouldn't say there's one failing thing, yeah.
是的，这是个好问题，定价方式多种多样，具体取决于具体服务。我不会说只有一种模式。有些业务更倾向于SaaS模式，因此按月或按用户计费；而有些，正如我所提及的，如果是属于我们福利产品组合的，可能更多地采用按卡收费的模式。也有些项目性质的服务，因此不存在单一的定价模式。
Jason Kupferberg
So it's kind of a mix. Okay. Okay, we've been hearing maybe over the last year or so a little bit more about value-added services being offered as part of client incentives, which are an important tool for Visa, and I think you refer to that as value in kind. So is that become a materially bigger trend? And if so, what's driven that? Do you expect it to continue?
所以，这实际上是一种混合模式。好，过去一年左右，我们听说越来越多的增值服务被作为客户激励的一部分提供，这对Visa来说是一个重要工具，我记得你称之为“实物价值”。这是否已经成为一个显著的趋势？如果是，是什么推动了这种趋势？你预期这种情况会持续吗？
Lisa Ellis
Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah, so definitely that's true. Some of our clients ask in deals or, like, prefer to have a portion of -- they're essentially pre-buying value-added services, that's a way to think about it, as part of their overall deal structure. That's been around for a long time. I think it's kind of come to the -- gotten some attention in the investor community recently, but it's been around for many years.
是的，这是个好问题。确实如此，我们的一些客户在交易中会要求或偏好预先购买部分增值服务，这可以看作是整体交易结构的一部分。这种模式由来已久，虽然最近在投资者界受到更多关注，但实际上已经存在多年。
And it remains a small portion of our overall incentives. Some clients like to do a portion of their incentives, that way some don't. But we like that. I mean, that's a model we are very comfortable with, because in many cases specifically earmarking that portion of their incentives to deploy some new advanced technologies or to run a specific program that they want to run, right? And so meaning, to drive that flywheel that I was describing.
而这在我们整体激励中所占比例依然较小。有的客户选择部分激励方案，有的则不然，但我们对此模式非常满意，因为在许多情况下，他们会专门划出一部分激励资金来部署新型先进技术或实施特定项目，从而推动我之前提到的正向循环效应。
And so they essentially are kind of pre-planning for that in the context of a deal renewal, which then just sort of sets the stage for our value-added services team to go in and help the client perhaps with a technology transition or with running a new program. It has a strong flywheel effect benefit on the business, so we're very comfortable with it. But as I mentioned, it's a small portion of our overall incentives.
因此，他们基本上是在交易续约的过程中预先规划好这一部分，这为我们的增值服务团队进入并协助客户进行技术转型或执行新项目奠定了基础。这对业务有显著的正向循环效应，因此我们对此非常有信心。但正如我所提到的，这仅占我们整体激励的一小部分。
Jason Kupferberg
Let's move over to commercial and money movement, as you guys now call it, CMS. And here, too, we had some new disclosure, and we appreciated that. So unit economics, commercial business with revenue yields of 17 to 19 basis points, right, per transaction. Are there opportunities to potentially increase that over time? And I think at the overall Visa level, you're more in the high 20s.
接下来让我们转向商业及资金流动业务，也就是你们现在所说的CMS。在这方面，我们也看到了新的披露信息，我们对此表示赞赏。商业业务每笔交易的收入收益率为17至19个基点，是否有机会随着时间推移进一步提高？我认为在整体Visa层面，你们的收益率更接近高20多基点。
Lisa Ellis
So certainly, we're always looking for you, but I would just highlight the reason for that is two major drivers. One is simply that our transaction sizes in CMS are significantly higher, like 3x higher on average than our consumer business. And so just when you're looking at it on a basis points basis, it's just sort of math that the resultant yields are going to be lower.
当然，我们一直在努力提升，但我想强调原因主要有两个。第一，CMS业务的交易规模显著高于我们的消费者业务，平均大约高3倍，因此从基点角度来看，结果收益率自然会较低。
And then also just from a comparison perspective, if you're comparing it to all of Visa that includes our value-added services business, whereas the disclosure on CMS did not include the value added services associated with CMS. And so it's not exactly apples-to-apples either. So we're very happy with the yields in the CMS business, like given those two factors.
其次，从比较角度看，如果将其与包含增值服务的整个Visa业务相比，而CMS的披露并未包括其相关的增值服务，那么二者并非完全可比。因此，考虑到这两点，我们对CMS业务的收益率非常满意。
Jason Kupferberg
Okay. So I wanted to hit on Visa Direct. Obviously, that's an important part of CMS. I mean, the transactions there have been growing at north of 40% CAGR, I think, and that's not often insignificant base either. You are $0.09 to $0.10 per transaction from the Investor Day. And if we think about just strategically within Visa Direct, we heard a bit about increasing penetration of cross-border transactions, which I would assume are have some nice rich yields.
好的。那么我想谈谈Visa Direct，显然这是CMS的重要组成部分。Visa Direct的交易量以超过40%的复合年增长率增长，这一基础规模也不容小觑。根据投资者日的数据，每笔交易约为0.09至0.10美元。如果我们从战略角度考虑Visa Direct，我们还听说了关于跨境交易渗透率提升的情况，我认为这部分交易会带来不错的收益率。
So can you talk about some of those initiatives that are driving increased cross-border usage of Visa Direct? And I don't know if you're able to give us a sense of what percent of Visa Direct’s total transactions are currently cross-border.
那么，你能谈谈推动Visa Direct跨境使用率提高的一些举措吗？另外，你能否透露目前Visa Direct交易中跨境交易所占的比例？
Lisa Ellis
So yes, a couple of highlights. One Visa Direct, while still a smaller portion of our business is one of the pieces we're unbelievably excited about the potential for this business, we're just barely scratching the surface of the available opportunity in Visa Direct. And as you highlighted, it has grown now at a 40 per -- we've been growing transactions in that business at a 40% CAGR, at very healthy yields, $0.09 to $0.10 per tran.
是的，我来强调几点。首先，尽管Visa Direct目前仍占业务比例较小，但我们对其潜力非常兴奋，我们仅仅触及了这块市场机会的冰山一角。正如你所提到的，我们的交易增长率为40%，且收益率健康，每笔交易约0.09至0.10美元。
The Visa Direct, let me -- and cross border, as you highlighted, is one of the areas where we see tremendous opportunity. The reason for that, is because Visa Direct, now think of Visa Direct as a major infrastructure build and in payments that takes time, years and years. But we've been at it now for a long time. And we now have by far on a number of measures, the largest my platform globally, period. That's true on a volume basis, number of endpoints, number of transactions.
让我补充，跨境业务正是我们看到巨大机遇的领域之一。原因在于，Visa Direct可以视为支付领域的一项重大基础设施建设，这需要耗时多年才能完成，而我们已经坚持了很长时间。目前，在多个指标上，我们拥有全球最大的资金流转平台，无论是交易量、终端数量还是交易次数，都遥遥领先。
There's still tremendous opportunity and work we need to do to keep building out that platform, but we are now at this scale where we've got by far the biggest money movement platform globally, which then opens up the opportunity to really, really start to penetrate cross border flows. So one immediate area where we've already got into a fair amount of traction, is in P2P, a major use case for Visa Direct is domestic P2P transactions, and we now work with many of the major remitters globally to help them bring global scale to their businesses. And we're starting to see significant growth.
虽然我们仍有大量机会和工作要做以进一步完善这一平台，但目前我们的规模已使我们成为全球最大的资金流转平台，这为大幅渗透跨境资金流提供了契机。举例来说，我们已经在P2P领域取得了一定进展，国内P2P交易是Visa Direct的主要应用场景之一，我们现与全球多家主要汇款机构合作，帮助他们实现全球规模，且我们正见证显著增长。
Our P2P cross-border transactions were up 80% year-on-year in the last fiscal year. So that gives you a sense for once you've got domestic P2P going across multiple geographies, and then you can start to connect those corridors together, you can start to see just tremendous growth in mid cross-border overall cross-border transactions in Visa Direct were up 50% year-on-year above the clip of the overall Visa Direct business, which was up 40% year-to-year.
我们上一个财年中，P2P跨境交易同比增长了80%。这说明，一旦国内P2P业务在多个地区开展，并将各通道互联，就能实现巨大增长。总体来看，Visa Direct的跨境交易同比增长了50%，高于整体Visa Direct业务40%的增速。
So we are seeing now that, some of that benefit of scale really come through and our ability to connect corridors around the world and build out those cross border flows. The other area, I'd highlight another use case. We talk about P2P a lot, because it's a major use case and there's still a lot of opportunity, tremendous opportunity there. But also another big one is disbursements.
因此，我们现在看到规模效应的部分优势显现出来，体现为我们连接全球各通道、构建跨境资金流的能力。另一个我想强调的用例是资金发放。我们经常讨论P2P，因为这是一个主要应用场景，机会依然巨大。但另一个重要领域是款项发放。
So think corporations who are dispersing funds either to their employees or if you're an insurance company out to your insured population. Other forms of sort of disbursements like that. Oftentimes, that's a cross-border transaction and see a lot of growth in that use case.
例如，企业向员工发放资金，或者保险公司向被保险人发放赔付等，这些款项发放通常属于跨境交易，并且在这一用例中增长显著。
And then the last one I'd highlight is actually on the high end, which is our B2B Connect business, which is a very unique asset. This is aimed at large dollar value, cross-border B2B flows between corporations. It's an offering at the high end underneath our Visa Direct umbrella, focused on the large dollar transactions that go kind of bilaterally from corporation to corporation, where we're seeing increased activity as well.
最后我要强调的是，我们的B2B Connect业务，这是一个非常独特的资产，针对企业间大额跨境B2B资金流。作为Visa Direct体系下的高端产品，它专注于企业间双边大额交易，且我们看到这一领域的活动也在增加。
Jason Kupferberg
Great. It sounds like you're pretty busy cross-border Visa Direct. The last one I wanted to ask you on CMS is just thinking about kind of B2B, but specifically the accounts payable and accounts receivable flows. I feel like this has been a really tough nut to crack for the payments industry. A lot of payments companies, including Visa, have talked about it probably for the past decade because it's a massive TAM, right? It's trillions of dollars. So what are Visa's plans to try and drive more revenue in this area over the longer term? What are the strategies supporting that?
很好，听起来你们在跨境Visa Direct方面非常活跃。最后我想问的是关于CMS中的B2B部分，特别是应付账款和应收账款的资金流。支付行业长期以来一直难以攻克这一难题，许多支付公司，包括Visa，在过去十年里都曾讨论过这一点，因为这是一块巨大的总可用市场，涉及数万亿美元。那么Visa计划如何在长期内推动这一领域的收入增长？支持这一战略的具体措施有哪些？
Lisa Ellis
Yeah, it's a good question. You're right. There's huge opportunity in B2B. You guys all know the number is about $145 trillion in total flows in B2B. We are very actively pursuing about $60 trillion of those flows with the existing products and services that we've already talked about. So Visa Direct goes after about $25 trillion of those flows. So think a lot of the cross-border B2B flows, both large dollar value as well as SMB flows that often look like consumer flows.
是的，这是个好问题。你说得对，B2B领域的机会巨大。大家都知道B2B总流量约为145万亿美元。我们正在积极争取其中大约60万亿美元的流量，利用现有的产品和服务来实现这一目标。其中，Visa Direct针对约25万亿美元的流量，因此涉及大量跨境B2B流，无论是大额交易还是中小企业看似类似消费者支付的流量。
And then our Visa Commercial Solutions, which is all of our card-based products, are targeting another $35 trillion out of that $145 trillion. And I want to just pause on that one for a minute because we get a lot of questions about AR and AP, which I'll come back to in one second, but I wouldn't overlook the opportunity in the SMB space and in the card-based space within corporate. So think virtual card, T&E, et cetera, procurement cards, because that $35 trillion, that's not that much smaller than the entire consumer payments opportunity.
另外，我们的Visa Commercial Solutions——即所有基于卡的产品——针对的是145万亿美元中另外35万亿美元的市场。我想在这里稍作停留，因为关于应收应付（AR/AP）的讨论很多，我稍后会再谈，但不能忽视中小企业和企业内部卡支付领域的机会。想想虚拟卡、差旅与费用（T&E）、采购卡等，这35万亿美元的市场规模与整个消费者支付市场相比，并不逊色太多。
But the penetration of card in those flows is much smaller still, particularly when you look around the world. There's huge opportunity just to drive adoption of our already well-developed, well-established card-based products for small businesses, for T&E, for procurement cards, in the virtual card space. These are often vertical-specific solutions. So think, like, fleet and fuel or agriculture, et cetera, travel all over the world.
但在这些流中，卡支付的渗透率依然较低，尤其是放眼全球。推动我们已经成熟、成熟的中小企业、T&E、采购卡及虚拟卡等卡支付产品的采用，本身就是一个巨大的机会。这些往往是垂直领域的解决方案，比如全球的车队及燃料、农业等领域的支付。
But looking beyond those, so if you want to go beyond that $60 trillion, $35 trillion of which is the very card-addressable piece, another $25 trillion is the Visa Direct-addressable piece. In the remaining $85 trillion, which is this sort of like all this kind of core AR/AP flows of businesses, that's an area where we have a lot of initiatives underway to do, to serve.
但如果放眼更广，不仅仅局限于那60万亿美元，其中35万亿美元是卡可覆盖的部分，另外25万亿美元是Visa Direct可覆盖的部分，那么剩下85万亿美元，即企业核心应收应付资金流的领域，我们正开展许多举措来满足这一市场需求。
The payments in that piece of the market are quite different, and a lot of the complexity in them sits around the payment. We're starting to see more fraud in those payments, which is a newer thing, but also there's just a lot of complexity. You have to often do things like, right, there's a lot of invoicing. There's a lot of one to many or many to one type of payments.
这一市场中的支付模式截然不同，其复杂性主要集中在支付环节。我们开始看到这些支付中出现更多欺诈现象，这是新出现的情况，同时也伴随着许多复杂问题，比如大量的发票处理，以及一对多或多对一的支付情形。
And we do have enough offerings in that space, but they're earlier in their development. There are things like Visa spend clarity for Enterprise, which is a CFO-oriented offering that helps CFOs do spend controls and spend management. We've got Visa Commercial Pay, which is an offering towards enabling large corporations to do card issuance -- issuing cards. So meaning things like digital wallets and doing specific limits and stuff that you want with your issuing cards to employees.
在这一领域我们确实已有不少产品，但还处于初期发展阶段。例如，Visa为企业提供的“支出清晰度”服务，这是一项面向首席财务官的产品，帮助其进行支出控制和管理；还有Visa Commercial Pay，旨在帮助大企业进行卡发行——例如数字钱包、设定特定限额等，以便为员工发行支付卡。
And then we've got some earlier-stage things like embedded integrations with some ERP vendors who are looking to embed payment capability directly in their offerings. So a lot of like what I call earlier-stage initiatives in that space, but certainly one that we're focused on over the much longer term.
此外，我们还有一些早期项目，例如与部分ERP供应商的嵌入式集成，他们希望将支付功能直接嵌入到其产品中。这些都是我所说的早期举措，但无疑是我们长期关注的重点。
Jason Kupferberg
Okay. Well, we'll stay tuned there. So consumer pay, we didn't hit that yet. It's the biggest piece of your business. It's 2/3 of revenue. And one of the themes that I think came across loud and clear at Investor Day is that Visa has this ability to continue growing faster than, let's call it, PCE, right, the market. That's true both domestically and outside the U.S., based on the data that you guys presented.
好，我们对此就先关注这块。至于消费者支付，我们还没有讨论，它是你们业务中最大的部分，占收入的2/3。投资者日上一个非常明确的主题是，Visa有能力继续保持高于市场（例如PCE）的增长，无论是在美国国内还是国际市场，从你们展示的数据来看，这都是真实的。
Take us through the strategies that you're employing to achieve that growth. And I talked about at the Investor Day is that, that growth gap could potentially shrink a little bit in the coming years. So discuss the dynamics there, if you will.
请介绍一下你们为实现这种增长所采取的战略。在投资者日上我提到，未来这一增长差距可能会有所缩小。请谈谈其中的动态。
Lisa Ellis
Yes, sure. So just to give the history, yes, so our consumer -- and we talked about the numbers at length at Investor Day as well. The 6-year period between 2018 and 2023, we grew our Consumer Payments volume at an annualized growth rate of 10%. During that same period, the underlying consumer spending growth were is about 4% CAGR. Those are 2 CAGR numbers.
好的，没问题。简单回顾一下历史，我们的消费者支付业务——我们在投资者日上详细讨论过这些数据——在2018年至2023年的六年期间，交易量的年均增长率为10%，而同期基础消费者支出的增长率约为4%。这两个数字说明了明显的增长差距。
So the implication of that is that we outpaced underlying consumer spending by about 6 points on average over that time frame. And those numbers are 5 points for the U.S. and 7 points for outside the U.S. So we had significant growth in excess of underlying consumer spending in both the U.S. as well as around the world. That is -- our outpacing of underlying consumer spending is driven by a lot of the Visa story that you all know and love. We continue to displace cash and check as the world digitizes, and more and more consumer payments digitize.
这意味着，在此期间我们的增长速度平均比基础消费者支出高出约6个百分点，其中美国为5个百分点，海外为7个百分点。无论在美国还是全球，我们的增长均大大超过基础消费者支出。这正是推动我们超越消费者支出的Visa故事：随着世界数字化进程的推进，我们持续替代现金和支票，越来越多的消费者支付实现数字化。
And then we also gain share and displace other forms of digital payment, many of which lack the capabilities of our network. So think domestic schemes in some countries around the world, but also think legacy ACH in some use cases around the world. And so we feel very comfortable, confident, in our ability to continue to outpace underlying consumer spending over the coming years, both in the U.S. and internationally, as we drive preference for Visa and also continue to digitalize cash and check.
此外，我们还通过抢占市场份额替代其他形式的数字支付，而这些支付方式往往缺乏我们网络的能力。无论是全球某些国家的本土支付体系，还是部分传统ACH应用，我们都具备明显优势。因此，我们对未来在美国及国际市场上持续超越消费者支出充满信心，因为我们不断推动消费者对Visa的偏好，同时持续推动现金和支票的数字化。
That said, the math would say, as Jason highlighted, that it's quite likely that, that gap will be narrower than it has in the past, but we continue to be -- we don't know that, we hope it won't be. But just as we continue to grow, it gets harder and harder to keep outpacing consumer spending at the same rate. We do expect it probably to moderate, but still be significantly above consumer spending.
不过，正如Jason所指出的，数学上讲，这一差距可能会比过去变得更小，但我们依然希望情况不会如此。随着我们不断增长，要持续以同样速度超越消费者支出会越来越难。我们预计增速可能会放缓，但仍将显著高于消费者支出。
Jason Kupferberg
Okay. So really a law of large numbers kind of dynamic. Okay. Understood. All right. Are you ready for the AI question? Everyone gets an AI question.
好，实际上这就是大数法则的体现。明白了。那么，准备好回答人工智能的问题了吗？大家都有一个AI问题。
Lisa Ellis
Sure.
当然。
Jason Kupferberg
Okay. Because you guys did talk about it at the Investor Day and agentic commerce, those were themes. Just maybe take us through some use cases. And at the end of the day, I mean, is AI and GenAI, is that more of a revenue opportunity for Visa? Is it a cost and efficiency opportunity?
好的。因为你们在投资者日以及代理式商业中谈到了这些主题。请介绍一些相关的用例。归根结底，我的意思是，人工智能和生成式AI对Visa来说，是更多的收入机会还是成本与效率提升的机会？
Lisa Ellis
Yes, it's a very good question. So just to ground everyone, we have used and been leaders in applying AI in payments for decades. We launched our first AI-based fraud model back in 1993. And then as neural networks started to really emerge and mature about a decade ago, we embedded that technology. Actually did major rewrites of a lot of our fraud and predictive models, leveraging that wave of AI technology about a decade ago.
是的，这是个非常好的问题。首先让大家了解，我们在支付领域应用AI已有数十年的历史，并且一直处于领先地位。早在1993年，我们就推出了首个基于AI的反欺诈模型；而大约十年前，随着神经网络的出现和成熟，我们将这项技术嵌入到系统中，对许多反欺诈和预测模型进行了大规模重写，充分利用了那一波AI技术浪潮。
比Mastercard说法更扯。
Now as we've started to see generative AI really emerge, we are extremely excited about this wave of AI and have been very early in deploying it. We think of it in 3 ways. One, we certainly are leveraging GenAI internally in our own operations. So this is a productivity driver. As you highlighted, we have thousands upon thousands of developers. A very natural use case for AI is to assist our developers in their code development, for example.
现在，随着生成式AI的兴起，我们对这一波AI技术感到无比兴奋，并且抢先部署。我们将其视为三大方向之一：首先，我们在内部运营中大量采用生成式AI作为生产力提升的工具。正如你所提到的，我们拥有成千上万的开发人员，利用AI辅助开发代码是一个非常自然的用例。
Similarly, our customer service and support reps, and then all of us just as employees and our productivity tools. Many, many companies, right, are leveraging GenAI already in those ways, and so we are one of those.
同样，我们的客户服务和支持代表，以及所有员工在使用生产力工具时也在利用生成式AI。许多公司已经在这样做，我们也是其中之一。
Second, we can embed this new AI technology in our risk and fraud and other capabilities. Just as we have other waves of AI in the past, we've already begun to do that. I can give you a couple of examples of some of our advanced authorization products, for example. We've got Visa Deep Authorization, Visa Account Attack Intelligence.
第二，我们可以将这项新AI技术嵌入到我们的风险、欺诈及其他功能中。正如我们过去经历的其他AI浪潮，我们已经开始这样做。举例来说，我们的一些高级授权产品——例如Visa Deep Authorization、Visa Account Attack Intelligence等。
Our decision manager, some of our optimization and risk and compliance products, are already being developed leveraging the latest and greatest AI models as underpinnings of those products. So that is a differentiator and a revenue driver for us, because many of these are sold as value-added services for our clients and they differentiate us in the market.
我们的决策管理系统以及部分优化、风险与合规产品，已经在利用最新最强的AI模型进行开发。这使我们在市场上独树一帜，同时也成为收入增长的推动力，因为这些产品很多都作为增值服务销售给客户。
The last one, which is more of an external, is around agent-based commerce. So this we see as a very early-stage emerging, but potentially very exceeding, transition in the world of commerce more broadly, as we may see emerge, right, just kind of what I think of as the next-generation of e-commerce, as we went through e-commerce to mobile commerce, and now to potentially some agents based commerce, where we may start to see agents engage either more actively where a consumer may purchase from an agent, an agent may purchase on behalf of a consumer or 2 agents may just purchase them each other without a consumer in bulk.
最后一点，更侧重于外部，是关于代理式商业。我们认为这是一种处于非常早期阶段但潜力巨大的商业转型，就像我们从电子商务到移动商务的演变一样，未来可能出现代理式商业，即代理商更积极地参与其中，可能由消费者直接向代理商购买，或者代理商代消费者购买，甚至两个代理商之间进行大宗交易。
It's very early stage. We'll have more to say about this in the coming months. But all I would just say is that what immediately pops out when you look at this space is how important security becomes when you're trying to do agent-based commerce. It's extraordinarily important, as you can imagine, to verify that an agent is actually legitimately operating on behalf of the consumer. And there's many much more services are there. Just like e-commerce brought a tremendous amount of more service area for fraud, agent-based commerce takes that to a whole another level.
这仍处于非常早期的阶段，我们将在未来几个月中进一步讨论。但我想说的是，在这个领域最直观的感受是，安全性变得极为重要，当你尝试进行代理式商业时，验证代理是否真正代表消费者合法运作是至关重要的。而且相关服务也将大幅增加。正如电子商务为欺诈问题带来了更多的服务需求，代理式商业则将这一问题提升到了全新的层面。
So we see a tremendous opportunity for us as Visa to play a major role in enabling the security of these transactions and really allowing them to go through. But I'll stop with that. More to come on that in the coming months.
因此，我们认为Visa在确保这些交易安全顺利进行方面拥有巨大机遇，能够发挥重要作用。这里先说到这里，未来几个月我们还会有更多讨论。
Jason Kupferberg
Yes, personalized shopping experiences, right? So yes, it will be interesting, I'm sure. I wanted to spend a minute on the Visa Flex Prudential. I remember when you guys put that release out and we've seen the affirm card for example, you're partnering with them on that or we showcased at the Investor Day. Maybe for those less familiar, talk about what the Flex Credential is, what the rollout progress has been like? Are we going to see it more broadly here to become material at some point?
是的，个性化购物体验，对吧？这肯定会非常有趣。我想花一点时间谈谈Visa Flex Prudential。我记得你们发布过相关公告，比如与Affirm卡的合作，或者我们在投资者日上展示过。对于不太熟悉的人，请介绍一下Flex Credential是什么，其推广进展如何？未来它是否会更广泛普及，并在某个时点成为重要产品？
Lisa Ellis
Yes. So Flex is one of the innovations where we couldn't be more excited about. It kind of is up there with tokenization and tap to pay or tap to everything on with these kind of landmark technologies that we've rolled out over the last number of years.
是的。Flex是我们最激动人心的创新之一，它与令牌化、触碰支付等标志性技术齐名，是我们过去几年推出的重要技术成果之一。
So if you just roll back in history, right, one of the big foundations of Visa is our innovations around credit products and our -- and the ability for a consumer to use a credit-based product at the time of transaction in a secure way.
回顾历史，Visa的一个重要基石就是我们在信用产品及其相关创新上的成就，以及让消费者在交易时以安全的方式使用信用产品的能力。
One of the major innovations, if you just roll back the clock of a couple of decades, right, was our ability to dual-message, our dual-message technology, which separates the authorization from the clearing and settlement so that you can -- it enables a merchant and a consumer to confidently go ahead and process a transaction. Something like a hotel stay, a car rental, a restaurant bill, et cetera, even though the clearing and settling happens at a different time.
几年前的重大创新之一是我们的双信息技术，它将授权与清算和结算分离，使得商户和消费者能够自信地完成交易，比如酒店住宿、租车、餐厅账单等，即使清算和结算发生在不同时间。
This was -- opened up a huge set of use cases in credit products back in the day. And then with e-commerce, where often you purchase something online, but it doesn't actually ship, right, until days later, opened up another whole set of use cases around this technology. I'm using that as a reference.
这一技术当年开辟了大量信用产品的应用场景。随后随着电子商务的发展——消费者在线购买的商品往往几天后才发货——这一技术又开启了另一系列应用场景。我以此作为参考。
Flex is an innovation sort of at that level when it comes to innovating around credit. Flex is using our token technology, the ability for a consumer to have one master token, master payment credential, off of which hangs many other forms of underline funding method. That could be their debit that could be a traditional revolving credit product, it could be an installment, it could be a secure card or a charge card, right? And you can imagine over time, other types of underlying capabilities that hang off of data-related information, identity information.
Flex在信用创新方面属于同一水平的革新。它利用我们的令牌技术，使消费者拥有一个主令牌或主支付凭证，基于此可以挂载多种不同的资金来源方式——可能是借记卡、传统循环信用、分期付款、也可能是安全卡或记账卡，未来甚至可能衍生出其他基于数据信息或身份信息的支付能力。
We see Flex -- so I just went -- from a time line perspective, we rolled out Flex in 2023 with one of our major clients in Japan. We have over 3 million users on Flex already with that client, and now begun to roll it out around the year -- around the world. More prominently more recently with players like Affirm in the U.S. the client demand for this product is extraordinary, and we are doing everything we can at Visa to accelerate the deployment of Flex around the world.
从时间线上看，我们在2023年与日本的一家重要客户推出了Flex，该客户的Flex用户已超过300万，现在我们正开始在全球推广，最近在美国与Affirm等公司的合作更为显著，对这一产品的客户需求非常旺盛，我们正在全力加速Flex在全球的部署。
I will highlight an important differentiator when it comes to rolling out Flex is our Pismo acquisition, right? We have very modern, cloud-based issuer processing capabilities that we brought in with Pismo which allow us often, that's the limiting factor. Our clients need to be able to handle a Flex credential that runs, right, can swap back and forth between credit and debit rails. And we -- I mean, we just love this product.
我想强调推广Flex的一个重要差异化因素是我们的Pismo收购。通过Pismo，我们获得了非常现代化、基于云的发卡处理能力，这往往是客户推广的限制因素，因为他们需要能够处理在信用和借记之间灵活切换的Flex凭证。我们——可以说，非常热爱这一产品。
We see it as having the potential. It's very early days, but having the potential just be the de facto credential in the future, right? There is no longer a need to have multiple credentials assigned to you independently that you independently use. You just use -- I would just use the Lisa Ellis payment credential and then I choose, in the background, how that is ultimately funded.
我们认为它具有极大潜力。虽然目前还处于早期阶段，但未来有望成为事实上的标准凭证，届时无需再为每种用途分配多个独立凭证。你只需使用——我建议直接使用Lisa Ellis支付凭证，然后在后台选择其最终的资金来源。
Jason Kupferberg
Lighten the weight in our wallets hopefully 1 day, yes. So we're going to end on just a double-click into some of the consumer payment opportunity within certain countries where we actually have seen domestic rails get some traction with consumer point-of-sale payments, like Pix in Brazil, is one that people talk about a lot. You guys were out of your, right, at the Investor Day to say, hey, there's $2 trillion of opportunity there. How are you going after that?
希望有一天能减轻我们钱包的负担，对吧。所以最后我想深入探讨一下某些国家中消费者支付机会的部分，比如巴西广受讨论的Pix，你们在投资者日上提到那里有2万亿美元的机会。你们打算如何开拓这一市场？
Lisa Ellis
Yes. Here's -- the simple way to describe it is we compete, we utilize and we sell VAS. So we go after -- we see this opportunity, tremendous opportunity for us. In many cases, we have terrific offerings, in many cases card-based offerings, that very directly compete with these rails and bring differentiated value, particularly around global acceptance, so cross-border acceptance, and around fraud and risk and security.
是的，简单来说，我们通过竞争、利用和销售增值服务来应对这一市场。我们看到这是一个巨大机遇。在很多情况下，我们拥有出色的产品，许多基于卡的产品能够直接与这些本土支付体系竞争，并提供差异化价值，特别是在全球接受度（跨境接受度）以及欺诈、风险和安全方面。
Two, we also build leverage these rails, right? We have our Tink open banking product, for example, leverage underlying alternative RTP rails and there are a service layer that sits on top of it. So, also where appropriate, we leverage the rails. And then lastly we also sell value-added services directly to alternative networks. So in cases where particularly, it's a strongly government-backed, a payment rail right where the government has a perspective that they are investing heavily behind having like a national network of some form, that's fine.
其次，我们也会利用这些本土支付体系。例如，我们的Tink开放银行产品可以借力于底层的其他RTP体系，并在其上构建服务层。因此，在适当的时候，我们也会利用这些支付体系。最后，我们还直接向其他替代网络销售增值服务。在某些情况下，特别是当某个支付体系得到政府大力支持，致力于打造某种国家级网络时，这种做法非常合适。
Then we partner, right, with those national schemes to provide some of the value-added services that we can bring, like A2A Protect; or the newer product we just recently rolled out, which is an A2A Scheme concept, directly and work directly with those local players to sell that. So sort of a 3-pronged approach.
接着，我们与这些国家级方案合作，提供我们能够带来的部分增值服务，例如A2A保护；或者我们最近推出的新产品——A2A方案概念，直接与当地参与者合作销售。总体来说，这是一种三管齐下的方法。
Jason Kupferberg
Excellent. Well, unfortunately, we have to leave it there. This was great. Really appreciate the time. Thank you.
太好了。遗憾的是，我们只能到此结束。这次交流非常棒，真的非常感谢你的时间。
Lisa Ellis
Terrific. Thanks, Jason.
太棒了。谢谢你，Jason.
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