I.H.90.Mark Zuckerberg.Podcasts
Mark Zuckerberg:
Yeah, it's a new medium. I mean, I'm sure you know the history on this. It's like when people transition from radio to TV,
马克·扎克伯格：
是的，这是一个新媒介。我是说，我确信你了解这方面的历史。这就像人们从广播过渡到电视的过程，
initial TV anchors were the same radio people, but just like being filmed while speaking on the radio.
最初的电视主播是从广播节目里过来的，他们只不过是被拍下来做广播而已。
But it turned out it actually was a completely different type of person that you need because on your radio is just like your voice and your cadence and all that.
但事实证明，你需要的是完全不同类型的人，因为在广播里，你依靠的是声音、语速和节奏之类的东西。
It's like, you know, the whole phrase, it's like you've got a good radio voice, right? It's like, okay, on TV, you need to be telegenic, right? You need to kind of have charisma in that medium.
就像你知道的那句老话，“你有很好的广播声音”，对吧？但在电视上，你需要上镜，对吧？你需要在这种媒介中展现出魅力。
It's like a completely different thing. I think that that's going to be true for the internet too.
这是完全不同的东西。我认为，这对互联网来说也将适用。
It's, you know, it's not as cut. I think part of it is the format, right? The fact that you do these like two, three-hour episodes.
嗯，你知道的，这不像以前那么简单明了了。我认为部分原因在于形式，对吧？比如说你做这些两三个小时的节目。
I hated doing TV because, you know, I basically got started, I started Facebook when I was 19 and I was good at some things, very bad at others.
我讨厌上电视，因为你知道，我基本上是19岁创办Facebook的，我擅长一些事情，但对另一些事情非常糟糕。
I was good at coding and like real bad at kind of like talking to people and explaining what I was doing.
我擅长编程，但在与人交谈和解释自己在做什么方面非常差。
And I just like had these experiences early on where I'd go on TV and it wouldn't go well and they'd cut it down to some random soundbite and I'd look stupid.
早期我有过这样的经历：我上电视节目，效果不好，他们会把内容剪成一些随机的短句，让我看起来很愚蠢。
And then basically I'd get super nervous about going on TV because I knew that they were just going to cut it in some way that I was going to look like a fucking idiot. And so I'm just like, this sucks, right?
然后，我开始对上电视感到非常紧张，因为我知道他们肯定会以某种方式剪辑内容，让我看起来像个混蛋。所以我心想，这太糟糕了，对吧？
It's kind of a funny thing about like, it's like, in some ways, it's like, okay, at the same time, I was, you know, gaining confidence being able to like, build more and more complicated products.
这有点搞笑，同时又有点讽刺。在某些方面，我的自信心在不断增强，因为我能开发越来越复杂的产品。
And it's like, even as an early 20s person, I was like, I could do this. And then on the kind of TV and comms public side, I was like, this is a disaster.
即使我当时才二十出头，我也觉得，“这个我能搞定。”但在电视和公共传播方面，我的感觉是，“这简直就是灾难。”
Every time I go out, it's worse and worse and worse.
每次上节目，效果都一次比一次差。
And it just gets so— But, I mean, it's one of the reasons why I think on the internet, like there's no reason to cut it to a four-minute soundbite conversation.
但我认为，这也是为什么在互联网上，我觉得没必要把对话剪成四分钟的短片。
It's like part of what makes it authentic is like, we can just, I mean, these are complex issues. We can unpack it for hours and probably still have hours more stuff to talk about.
让我觉得互联网更真实的一部分原因是，我们可以花几个小时探讨这些复杂的问题，甚至还能再聊几个小时。
播客变得越来越流行。
It just, it's, I don't know. I think it's just more real.
这只是，我不知道，我觉得互联网就是更真实。
Joe Rogan:
Yeah, it's definitely that. And the other thing about television that's always going to hold it back is the fact that every conversation gets interrupted every X amount of minutes because you have to cut to a commercial,
乔·罗根：
是的，确实是这样。电视节目永远会受限制的另一个原因是，每隔一段时间对话就会被打断，因为必须插播广告，
so you really can't get into depth. Even Bill Maher's show is only an hour. You know, you have all these people talking over each other, then you sit down with one person for a short amount of time.
所以你真的没办法深入探讨。即使像比尔·马赫的节目也只有一个小时。你知道，节目里所有人都在互相插话，然后你可能只和一个人短暂交谈一会儿。
It's just not enough time for important subjects. It's also a lot of them, for whatever reason, want to do it in front of an audience, which is the worst way to get people to talk.
这对重要的话题来说根本不够。而且，不知道出于什么原因，很多节目都想在观众面前录制，这其实是最糟糕的方式。
Like imagine these disasters that you had if there was like 5,000 people staring at you in a TV crowd as well. Yeah.
想象一下，如果你在电视节目中经历的那些糟糕时刻，还有5000人当场盯着你，那会怎样。是的。
There's that added element, which is so not normal and not conducive to having a conversation where you're talking about nuanced things.
这增加了一个额外的因素，这种情况非常不正常，也不利于就微妙的问题进行对话。
Mark Zuckerberg:
Yeah.
马克·扎克伯格：
是的。
Joe Rogan:
Where you have to like think, you have to be able to pause and not concern yourself being entertaining for these fucking people just sitting there staring at you.
乔·罗根：
你需要思考，你需要能够暂停，而不必担心如何取悦那些坐在那里盯着你的观众。
Mark Zuckerberg:
Yeah, and also like when you're having a conversation say it like I don't know it's like when you start talking about something your kind of subconscious kicks in you start thinking about the...
马克·扎克伯格：
是的，而且当你在进行对话时，比如，我不知道，当你开始谈论某件事情时，你的潜意识会启动，你会开始思考……
It's like you might not actually have the thing that you want to say until like five minutes later.
就像，你可能直到五分钟之后，才真正想到你想说的内容。
I mean, it's like when we started this conversation, I think like the first few minutes were just kind of slow. It's like warming up.
我的意思是，比如我们刚开始这段对话时，我觉得前几分钟进展得很慢。这就像是在热身。
Joe Rogan:
Yeah.
乔·罗根：
是的。
Mark Zuckerberg:
Like, okay, kind of like downloading into my memory. Like, how am I going to like, you know, it's like, how am I going to, you know, just explain these different things.
马克·扎克伯格：
就像，好吧，我正在把这些东西下载到我的记忆中。我会怎样解释这些不同的内容。
Yeah, I just think that that's sort of how people work.
是的，我只是觉得这就是人们的工作方式。
Joe Rogan:
It's also like it's conversations are like a dance. You know, one person can't be dancing at another speed and the other person is going slow.
乔·罗根：
这就像一场舞蹈。你知道，一个人不能跳得很快，而另一个人却跳得很慢。
You kind of have to find the rhythm that you're going to talk with and then you have to actually be interested in what you're talking about.
你必须找到你们谈话的节奏，然后你必须真正对你所谈论的内容感兴趣。
That's another thing that they are at a huge disadvantage of in mainstream media.
这也是主流媒体处于巨大劣势的另一个原因。
It's like they're just doing that because that's their job. They probably don't even know a lot about climate change.
他们做这些事情只是因为这是他们的工作。他们可能甚至对气候变化了解不多。
They probably don't really understand too much about what SpaceX is trying to accomplish, but they're just reporting on it.
他们可能也不太明白SpaceX试图完成的目标，但他们只是照本宣科地报道。
Mark Zuckerberg:
Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of the people I've met there, I think are good people. It's just a tough format.
马克·扎克伯格：
是的，我是说，我确信我在那里遇到的很多人都是好人。只是这种形式太难了。
Joe Rogan:
It's a terrible format. Yeah. And the problem is they get locked into that format and no one trusts them.
乔·罗根：
这种形式太糟糕了。是的，问题是他们被困在这种形式中，没有人信任他们。
And then they leave and they go, yeah, but you were just lying to us about this, that and the other thing.
然后当他们离开后，人们会说，“是啊，但你刚才还在这件事、那件事、其他事情上欺骗我们。”
And now I'm supposed to believe you're one of the good guys. You're one of the straight shooters now.
现在我要相信你是个好人，你是个说真话的人了？
Mark Zuckerberg:
Yeah.
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