2025-02-12 AppLovin Corporation (APP) Q4 2024 Earnings Call Transcript
AppLovin Corporation (NASDAQ:APP) Q4 2024 Earnings Conference Call February 12, 2025 5:00 PM ET
Company Participants
David Hsiao - Head, Investor Relations
Adam Foroughi - Co-Founder, Chief Executive Officer & Chairperson
Matt Stumpf - Chief Financial Officer
Conference Call Participants
Clark Lampen - BTIG
Ralph Schackart - William Blair
Jason Bazinet - Citi
Vasily Karasyov - Cannonball
Rob Sanderson - Loop Capital
Jim Callahan - Piper Sandler
James Heaney - Jefferies
Chris Kuntarich - UBS
Omar Dessouky - BofA
Martin Yang - OppCo
Alec Brondolo - Wells Fargo
Arsenije Matovic - Wolfe
Eric Sheridan - Goldman Sachs
Bernie McTernan - Needham & Company
David Hsiao
大卫·萧
Welcome to AppLovin's Earnings Call for the Fourth Quarter and Year ended December 31, 2024. I'm David Hsiao, Head of Investor Relations. Joining me today to discuss our results are Adam Foroughi, our Co-Founder, CEO, and Chairperson; and Matt Stumpf, our CFO.
欢迎参加AppLovin截至2024年12月31日第四季度及全年财报电话会议。我是大卫·萧，投资者关系负责人。今天与我一起讨论公司业绩的还有我们的联合创始人、首席执行官兼董事长Adam Foroughi，以及首席财务官Matt Stumpf。
Please note, our SEC filings to date as well as our shareholder letter, financial update and press release discussing our fourth quarter annual performance are available at investors.applovin.com.
请注意，我们迄今为止提交的所有美国证券交易委员会文件，以及讨论第四季度年度业绩的股东信、财务更新和新闻稿，均可在investors.applovin.com获取。
During today's call, we will be making forward-looking statements including, but not limited to, the future development and reach of our platform, our expected growth opportunities, the result and timing of our strategic transactions, the efficiency of our operations, the expected future financial performance of the company, and other future events. These statements are based on our current assumptions and beliefs. We assume no obligation to update them except as required by law.
在今天的电话会议上，我们将做出前瞻性声明，包括但不限于我们平台的未来发展和覆盖范围、预期的增长机会、战略交易的结果和时间、运营效率、公司预期的未来财务表现以及其他未来事项。这些声明基于我们目前的假设和判断。除非法律要求，否则我们没有义务对其进行更新。
Our actual results may differ materially from the results predicted. We encourage you to review the risk factors at our most recently filed Form 10-Q for the third quarter ended September 30, 2024. Additional information may also be found in our annual report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2024, which will be filed later this month.
我们的实际结果可能与预测结果存在重大差异。我们鼓励您查看我们最近提交的截至2024年9月30日第三季度的Form 10-Q中所列示的风险因素。更多信息也可在我们计划于本月晚些时候提交的2024年12月31日财年Form 10-K年度报告中找到。
We will also be discussing non-GAAP financial measures. These non-GAAP measures are not intended to be superior to or a substitute for our GAAP results. Please be sure to review the GAAP results and the reconciliations of our GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures in our earnings release and financial update, available on our Investor Relations site.
我们还将讨论非GAAP财务指标。这些非GAAP指标并不旨在优于或替代我们的GAAP业绩。请务必查看我们在投资者关系网站上发布的财报和财务更新，其中包含GAAP业绩以及GAAP与非GAAP财务指标的对账表。
This conference call is being recorded and a replay will be available for a period of time on our IR website.
本次电话会议正在录音，重播将在我们的投资者关系网站上保留一段时间。
Now, I'll turn it over to Adam and Matt for some opening remarks, then we'll have the moderator take us through Q&A.
现在，我将把话筒交给Adam和Matt来做一些开场发言，随后由主持人带领我们进入问答环节。
Adam Foroughi
Thank you all for joining us.
谢谢各位的参与。
Q4 was a major milestone, arguably our most foundational period since the AXON upgrade in 2023. For the first time, we captured meaningful holiday shopping advertising dollars and witnessed the impact of an advertising category beyond solely gaming contributing to our growth. I'm sure many of you are curious about how much revenue our ecommerce category contributed. While we're not breaking out revenue by vertical, because that's not how we view our business, I'd like to provide some perspective.
第四季度是一个重要的里程碑，可以说是自2023年AXON升级以来最具基础性的时期。我们首次成功获取了有意义的假日购物广告投入，并见证了除游戏领域之外的广告类别为我们增长带来的贡献。我相信很多人都想知道电商类别的收入规模。虽然我们并不会按垂直领域披露收入，因为我们并不这样看待自己的业务，但我想在此提供一些背景信息。
We've now also validated that our platform success isn't only limited to direct-to-consumer brands. Early pilots have shown positive outcomes for a range of advertisers, suggesting that any business in any vertical can harness the power of our platform. This opens up a massive opportunity as there are over 10 million businesses worldwide who advertise online that could eventually use our platform profitably.
我们还验证了我们的平台成功并不仅限于面向消费者的品牌。早期试点向各类广告客户展示了积极成果，表明任何行业的企业都能利用我们的平台。这为我们带来了巨大的机会，因为全球有超过一千万家在线投放广告的企业，它们最终都可能通过我们的平台获得可观收益。
By delivering incremental value, we position ourselves as an engine for growth. It's a win-win for brands, consumers, and shareholders. These early results solidify our vision of building one of the most influential marketing platforms in the world. Where we once focused on gaming, we're now positioning ourselves to serve the entire global advertising economy.
通过提供增量价值，我们将自己定位为增长引擎。这对于品牌、消费者和股东而言都是双赢。早期取得的成果让我们进一步坚定了成为全球最具影响力的营销平台之一的愿景。我们曾经专注于游戏领域，如今则定位于服务整个全球广告市场。
Demand from advertisers wanting to join our platform is high. Currently, our systems are still being fully developed and lack the full self-service capabilities needed to handle growth at scale. Our priority this year is to develop and roll out more automated tools to allow countless new businesses to tap into our platform. In-line with this expanding focus on advertising, we've been assessing how best to invest our resources to serve the needs of a global client base.
想要加入我们平台的广告主需求非常旺盛。目前，我们的系统仍在不断完善，尚未具备全面的自助服务能力来应对大规模增长。我们今年的首要任务是开发并推广更多自动化工具，使更多新企业能够利用我们的平台。随着广告业务重心的不断扩大，我们也在评估如何最有效地投资资源，以满足全球客户群体的需求。
Seven years ago, we began acquiring gaming studios to help train our earliest machine learning models, an invaluable step in shaping the AI that underpins our AXON platform. However, we've never been a game developer at heart. We have immense respect for the creativity it takes to build games, including from teams in our studios.
七年前，我们开始收购游戏工作室，以帮助训练我们最早的机器学习模型，这对打造支撑AXON平台的AI至关重要。然而，我们的核心始终不是游戏开发。我们非常尊重游戏开发所需的创造力，包括来自我们内部工作室团队的创意。
Today, we're announcing we've signed an exclusive term sheet to sell all of our Apps business. Matt will share further details, but I want to emphasize to our teams. You'll soon be part of a company that specializes in and champions game development. While it's bittersweet to part ways, we're excited for your future and immensely grateful for your role in getting us to where we are today.
今天，我们宣布已签署排他性条款，将出售我们所有的应用业务。Matt会在之后分享更多细节，但我想对我们的团队表示，你们很快就会加入一家专注并支持游戏开发的公司。尽管分离难免让人感到唏嘘，但我们对你们的未来感到兴奋，并对你们帮助我们走到今天这一成就深表感激。
Finally, I'd like to highlight our favorite metric going forward, adjusted EBITDA per employee. As we're transitioning to a pure advertising platform, our focus will be on productivity, automation, and building lean, high-impact teams. In Q4, we had approximately $3 million in run rate adjusted EBITDA per employee in our Advertising business, and we expect that number to rise as we refine processes and scale our business. This metric underscores our commitment to operational excellence.
最后，我想强调一下我们最关注的指标：每位员工的调整后EBITDA。随着我们转型成为纯广告平台，未来的重点将是提升生产力、自动化水平以及建立精简且影响力强的团队。在第四季度，我们广告业务的员工人均调整后EBITDA运行率约为300万美元，我们预计随着流程精细化和业务规模的扩大，这一数字还将提升。该指标凸显了我们对卓越运营的追求。
Thank you for your continued support and partnership as we enter this next phase of growth. I'm more confident than ever that we're building a platform with the potential to transform global marketing.
在我们进入下一个增长阶段之际，感谢各位一直以来的支持与合作。我比以往任何时候都更加确信，我们正在打造一个有潜力改变全球营销格局的平台。
With that, I'll turn it over to Matt for a deeper look at our financials.
接下来，我将把话筒交给Matt，让他更深入地解读我们的财务状况。
Matt Stumpf
马特·斯塔姆夫
Thanks, Adam, and good afternoon.
谢谢你，Adam，大家下午好。
I'm happy to announce we had another strong quarter with total revenue increasing 44% from the same period last year to $1.37 billion and adjusted EBITDA increasing 78% to $848 million, achieving a 62% adjusted EBITDA margin. This represents an 89% flow-through from revenue to adjusted EBITDA.
我很高兴地宣布，我们又度过了一个强劲的季度，总收入较去年同期增长44%，达到13.7亿美元，调整后EBITDA增长78%，达到8.48亿美元，实现了62%的调整后EBITDA利润率。这意味着从收入到调整后EBITDA的转化率达89%。
In the fourth quarter, we generated $695 million in free cash flow, up 105% year-over-year. Quarter-over-quarter, our free cash flow grew 28%, representing 82% flow-through from adjusted EBITDA to free cash flow. Free cash flow grew slightly more than our adjusted EBITDA growth over the same period due to the timing of cash tax payments.
在第四季度，我们创造了6.95亿美元的自由现金流，同比增长105%。与上一季度相比，自由现金流增长了28%，从调整后EBITDA到自由现金流的转化率达82%。由于现金税款支付时点的影响，自由现金流的增长略高于同期调整后EBITDA的增长。
At the end of the fourth quarter, we had $741 million in cash and cash equivalents, and 340 million shares outstanding.
截至第四季度末，我们持有7.41亿美元的现金及等价物，流通股数量为3.4亿股。
During the quarter, our Advertising business continued to drive increased performance for our mobile gaming partners combined with positive early results for ecommerce advertisers during the holiday season. The Advertising business generated $999 million in revenue and $777 million in adjusted EBITDA, achieving a 78% margin.
在本季度，我们的广告业务继续为移动游戏合作伙伴带来更高的成效，同时也在假日季为电商广告客户提供了良好的早期成果。广告业务实现了9.99亿美元的收入和7.77亿美元的调整后EBITDA，利润率达到78%。
Quarter-over-quarter flow-through from revenue to adjusted EBITDA was 75%, which is slightly lower than our normal levels. As I previewed last quarter, this was due to a step function increase in our data center costs. Flow-through will normalize from here as we gain leverage on this increase in GPU costs.
从收入到调整后EBITDA的季度环比转化率为75%，略低于我们的常规水平。正如我在上个季度所预告的，这主要是由于数据中心成本出现了阶梯式增长。随着我们在GPU成本上获得更多杠杆，这种转化率会从目前开始逐步回归正常。
Before we get into the financial performance for our Apps business, as Adam mentioned, we're excited to announce we've signed a term sheet to divest our Apps business. Total estimated consideration is $900 million, including $500 million in cash, with the remainder representing a minority equity stake in the combined private company. Subject to regulatory clearance, we hope to close this transaction in the coming quarter and look forward to seeing the success of this business under new leadership.
在介绍应用业务的财务表现之前，正如Adam所提到的，我们很高兴地宣布我们已签署了出售应用业务的协议条款书。总预估对价为9亿美元，其中包括5亿美元的现金，其余部分将作为合并后私营公司的少数股权。交易需获得监管批准，我们希望能在下个季度完成交易，并期待该业务在新管理层的领导下取得成功。
Our Apps revenue for the quarter was $373 million, a 1% decrease from last year with $71 million in adjusted EBITDA, representing a 19% margin.
我们本季度的应用业务收入为3.73亿美元，较去年下降1%，调整后EBITDA为7100万美元，利润率为19%。
Turning briefly to our annual results. Revenue for the year was $4.7 billion. That's an increase of 43% from last year. Adjusted EBITDA was $2.72 billion. That's an incredible 81% increase from last year at an adjusted EBITDA margin of 58%. Free cash flow for the year was $2.1 billion, representing an impressive 76% flow-through from adjusted EBITDA of $2.72 billion.
再简单看一下年度业绩。全年收入为47亿美元，比去年增长43%。调整后EBITDA为27.2亿美元，较去年大幅增长81%，调整后EBITDA利润率达58%。全年自由现金流为21亿美元，占27.2亿美元调整后EBITDA的76%，表现相当亮眼。
This quarter, we withheld a total of 1.6 million shares for a total cost of $508 million. For the full year, we repurchased or withheld a total of 25.7 million shares for a total cost of $2.1 billion. I want to pause here to emphasize this point. During the year, we had $2.1 billion of free cash flow and spent $2.1 billion on our shares at a weighted average price of approximately $83 per share, illustrating the commitment we've communicated to drive shareholder value through prudent capital allocation and an investment in our own shares.
本季度，我们回购或预留了160万股，成本总计5.08亿美元。全年，我们共回购或预留了2570万股，成本总计21亿美元。我想在这里稍作停顿以强调这一点：今年我们创造了21亿美元的自由现金流，并以每股约83美元的加权平均价格耗资21亿美元购买了自家股票，这充分证明了我们通过审慎的资本配置和投资自家股票来提升股东价值的承诺。
差不多20倍的PE。
Finally, turning to our financial guidance for next quarter. In light of the transaction we highlighted here and the continued focus on the advertising business, we will provide guidance for each of our segments separately.
最后，我们来看看下个季度的财务指引。鉴于我们在这里所提到的这笔交易以及我们对广告业务的持续关注，我们将分别为各业务板块提供预期指引。
In the first quarter of 2025, for the Advertising business, we anticipate to deliver between $1.030 billion and $1.050 billion in revenue, with adjusted EBITDA between $805 million and $825 million, targeting an adjusted EBITDA margin of 78% to 79%.
在2025年第一季度，广告业务预计将实现收入在10.30亿至10.50亿美元之间，调整后EBITDA在8.05亿至8.25亿美元之间，目标调整后EBITDA利润率为78%至79%。
We expect Apps revenue to be between $325 million and $335 million at an adjusted EBITDA of between $50 million and $60 million.
我们预计应用业务的收入将在3.25亿至3.35亿美元之间，调整后EBITDA将在5000万至6000万美元之间。
Now, with that, let's move to Q&A.
现在，就让我们进入问答环节吧。
Question-and-Answer Session
问答环节
Operator
主持人
Thanks so much, Matt. And, again, as Matt mentioned, we will now begin the question-and-answer session. [Operator Instructions] And our first question will come from Clark Lampen with BTIG.
非常感谢你，Matt。同样，正如Matt所提到的，我们现在将进入问答环节。[操作员提示] 我们的第一个问题来自BTIG的Clark Lampen。
Clark Lampen
克拉克·兰彭
Hey, guys. Good morning. Hopefully, you can hear me okay.
各位好，早上好。希望你们能听到我的声音。
Adam Foroughi
亚当·福鲁吉
Yeah, Clark.
能听到，Clark。
Clark Lampen
克拉克·兰彭
Curious, Adam, a lot to dive into, I think, around commerce, but I want to make sure that I understood, I think, one point that you made in your prepared remarks, which is you're seeing early benefits for a range of different brands in a variety of verticals beyond just sort of DTC marketers. Does that suggest that as you scale sort of your non-gaming business over the course of the year that as we move into self-serve as we're addressing more global audiences, it's not going to be just DTC marketers? Or is that an opportunity that you sort of identified as one that works, but maybe we're not necessarily capitalizing on that near-term?
Adam，我觉得关于电商领域有很多值得深入探讨的内容，但我想先确认一点，你在准备好的发言中提到，你们在很多领域（而不仅仅是直接面向消费者的营销商）看到了早期的积极效益。是否意味着，随着你们在今年加速非游戏业务，并逐步转向自助服务模式、面向更多全球受众时，客户群并不仅仅会局限在直接面向消费者的营销商？还是说你们确定了这一领域确实可行，但也许短期内并不会立即把重点放在这里？
Adam Foroughi
亚当·福鲁吉
Thanks, Clark. You basically answered it for me. But when we put the platform together, we really strategically made a choice to go after DTC commerce, but what we knew is that if the tech works there, it's going to work on everything. And so, sort of privately and quietly as we've gotten onboarding from clients in other categories across a wide range of categories, we've been seeing that the models are working there. And what I was announcing just a couple of minutes ago is that we're seeing success across any category that comes onto the platform, which gives us a lot of confidence that as we go through the year, we release more tools and really go into more of a self-service and open state. We're going to be in a position to go after the very, very large set of advertisers that are in the 10 million-plus range in the world over the next coming quarters, years and decade-plus.
谢谢你，Clark。其实你基本上已经替我回答了。我们在搭建平台时，确实出于策略选择，最先针对DTC电商入手，但我们非常清楚，如果这项技术在DTC领域能奏效，那么它就能适用于所有领域。事实上，随着我们悄悄为不同类别的大范围客户提供服务，我们发现模型在这些类别也能正常工作。正如我刚刚提到的，目前我们看到平台上的各种垂直领域都取得了成功，这让我们对今年及未来数个季度、几年，乃至十年中，不断推出新工具并真正走向自助化和开放模式非常有信心。我们能够面向全球超过一千万家的庞大广告主群体，为他们提供可行的解决方案。
This is something that we aspire to do, and we're going to take our time on, because I do want to caveat it with an important point that ties back to our culture. We're spending quite a lot of time trying to build tools to automate the entire system so that we're not looking at a massive revenue opportunity in front of us and suggesting that we have to go hire people to go after it. We're going to continue to stay diligent and lean, and we're going to use tools and AI and automation to deliver the same type of solution and success for advertisers that come onboard in the future, but make sure they come onboard into a platform that hasn't changed anything from the cultural values that have gotten us to this point.
这是我们的目标，但我们会花时间去实现，也想给出一个和企业文化相关的重要提示。我们正在投入大量精力来构建自动化工具，使得我们面对如此巨大的营收机会时，不需要额外雇用一大批人来应对。我们会继续保持专注和精简的模式，充分利用工具、AI和自动化，为未来加入平台的广告主提供同样高水准的解决方案和成功路径，同时确保在这一过程中不会背离我们一直以来的文化价值。
Clark Lampen
克拉克·兰彭
Okay. Within that same list that you just sort of talked about with the dashboard automation, at the bottom of it was CTV advertising. And, I don't want to do a full audit of sort of the Wurl deal, but I'm curious, if you could give us a synopsis of sorts of maybe what happened last time around that proved to be a little bit different relative to that initial thesis, and now maybe what's changed lately that at this point in time has prompted you to, I guess, shift focus or maybe focus more on that supply opportunity? Thanks.
好的。在你刚才提到的仪表板自动化那个清单里，列表底部还提到了CTV（联网电视）广告。虽然我不想对Wurl的交易进行全面回顾，但我想听听你的简要概括：过去你们有什么尝试，最后结果和最初的想法有所差异？现在又发生了哪些变化，让你们在这个阶段有意愿去调整重点或更关注这部分流量供应？谢谢。
Adam Foroughi
亚当·福鲁吉
Yeah. So, I'll say we haven't really focused on it yet at all. When we bought Wurl, the idea was that they're connected to the media companies, and we wanted to get supply online, not too dissimilar from the MAX auction so that we have the access to supply. Our core business and the vast majority of revenue comes from the DSP side, so advertisers coming to us and us helping them place ads. But we need supply.
是的，我先说一下，我们目前还没真正把主要精力放在这上面。当初收购Wurl时，我们的想法是：他们与媒体公司有连接，我们想把供应端上网，这与MAX拍卖有些类似，从而获得广告库存。我们最核心的业务以及绝大部分收入都来自DSP，也就是广告主找到我们，我们帮助他们投放广告。但这也要求我们必须有供应。
Wurl has brought a ton of supply online. And last year, what we had available to us to show into the ad slot were gaming ads. That part of the platform is live. But if you think about a gaming ad on a full screen television asking user to go download a game on the phone, it's just not that compelling a full screen TV ad. We didn't see a single gaming ad on the Super Bowl, right?
Wurl帮我们带来了大量的线上供应。去年，我们能够投放到广告位上的内容主要是游戏广告，这方面的平台已上线。但如果你想想，大屏电视上播放一个手游下载的广告，这并不是一个很有吸引力的大屏电视广告。看超级碗转播时，你也没见过任何游戏广告，对吧？
What we can expect though is that consumer ads in D2C commerce and then across a wide range of categories like fintech, automotive, et cetera, as these come onto our platform, extending that type of creative onto the big screen could be quite compelling.
但我们可以预期的是，如果平台上承载的是D2C电商类的消费广告，或者金融科技、汽车等更多领域的广告，那么将这些内容延伸到大屏上就会相当有吸引力。
Now, it's not without its challenges. There are attribution problems. There is a lack of a call to action. So, there are difficulties to make this work, which is why we're not saying, "hey, this is a layup." It's a challenge. If we are able to do it and do it successfully, it'll open up another massive channel of performance advertising on the big screen probably for the first time in history. And that's why I keep mentioning it because it is a huge opportunity and one that we're going to be going after building into this year.
当然，这也不是毫无难度。我们会面临归因问题，也没有一个直接的行动召唤（call to action），要让广告发挥作用并不容易。这也是为什么我们不会说“这事儿很简单”。如果我们能做到并取得成功，可能会首次在大屏电视上开辟一个规模庞大的效果广告渠道。这就是我反复强调它的原因，因为这是一项巨大的机会，我们也打算在今年进一步探索和开发。
Clark Lampen
克拉克·兰彭
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Operator
And our next question will come from Ralph Schackart with William Blair.
主持人
接下来提问的是来自William Blair的Ralph Schackart。
Ralph Schackart
Hey. Good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking the question. First question is, just on model enhancements. Adam, I know each quarter could be volatile and unpredictable, but can you just maybe give a sense this quarter what you saw in terms of model enhancements and how much that may have been an additive to the growth? And then, I have a follow-up.
拉尔夫·沙克特
嗨，各位，下午好。谢谢你们回答我的问题。我的第一个问题是关于模型改进。Adam，我知道每个季度的情况都可能会有波动且难以预测，但你能不能谈一下本季度你们在模型改进方面看到了什么，以及这种改进对增长的贡献大概是多少？然后我还有一个后续问题。
Adam Foroughi
Yeah. Hey, Ralph. So, we've sort of broken down the growth vectors across a couple of different facets. One is just ongoing learning where the model is just improving itself. That we expect to capture every single quarter. We haven't seen a slowdown there. That contributed to growth in the quarter.
亚当·福鲁吉
好的，Ralph。我们把增长来源分成了几个不同方面。其中之一就是持续学习，模型在自我改进。这是我们每个季度都能观察到的现象，而且到目前为止还没看到减缓的迹象，这对本季度的增长有所贡献。
There's then another facet, which is iterative and incremental improvements on our pre-existing model. That sort of happens along the way as we go. We don't break those out. Those are, again, unpredictable and not huge, but those are not those step functions that you've seen in past quarters. We had some of that in the quarter as well. Then, you've got these big incremental lifts to a new model. So, analogy I've drawn is to a ChatGPT4, 4.o1, et cetera.
然后还有一个方面是对已有模型的迭代和渐进改进。这些改进会在我们日常运营中逐步发生。我们并不会单独披露这些，因为它们同样是不可预测且规模不大，也并非过去某些季度里那种跃升式变化。本季度也有一些这类改进。再往后就是对新模型的大幅提升，就像我说的，可以比作从ChatGPT4到4.o1之类的版本迭代。
And so, as their models increment, the model gets more complex and smarter. We have the same thing. This quarter, we did not have one of those. So then, you see this outsized growth, and then the question is, "Okay, where did it come from?" And I touched on this in my talk track. We've got seasonality in Q4, which traditionally we've never been able to take advantage of, and that's built around shopping and shopping behavior. And that this quarter, we were able to take some advantage of because we're starting to see the ecommerce product really take off.
The other part of it is that in Q4, you also have people having more time to spend on mobile devices, especially during the holidays. And during that time, people are more likely to consume and transact in mobile games. So, naturally, every single year, Q4 is a very good healthy quarter for marketing mobile games.
随着模型不断迭代升级，它会变得更复杂也更智能。我们同样也在做这样的事。不过本季度我们并没有出现那种大版本升级。而当你看到超预期增长，就会问“这些增长从哪里来的呢？”我在刚才的说明中提到过，第四季度存在季节性因素，通常我们没有充分利用这一点，而它主要围绕购物和购物行为。本季度，我们开始看到电商产品在这个季节性需求中表现良好，并从中受益。 另一个方面是，第四季度人们在假日期间会有更多时间花在移动设备上，这时候他们更倾向于在手游上进行消费和交易。所以，每年第四季度都会是游戏行业营销的旺季。
So, it was a combination of the baseline, which is just our models are continuously getting smarter on their own, some team effort on incremental improvements on the models, and then seasonality across both our existing games business and our new up and coming ecommerce business.
因此，这主要是几个因素的综合作用：我们的模型基础层面在不断自我优化、团队对模型做了一些增量改进，再加上无论是现有的游戏业务还是新兴的电商业务都受到了季节性需求的推动。
Ralph Schackart
Great. Just maybe a follow-up. I'm not sure if it's for you or Matt, but just in terms of ecommerce, obviously, a lot of excitement here and things seem to be going really well. Do you still -- I think before you've talked about it contributing to be a material contribution in 2025. Just curious if you still think that's true, A. And then, B, can you just give us a sense of just the potential for incremental growth or how you might frame the opportunity as we're sort of thinking about our models for '25? Thank you.
拉尔夫·沙克特
好的。还有一个后续问题，我不确定这是问你还是问Matt。就是关于电商业务方面，很显然大家都很关注这一块，而且它的发展势头似乎也不错。你们之前提到过，电商业务在2025年会作出实质性贡献。我想问一下，这个观点还成立吗？以及你们是否能就未来增量增长的潜力提供一些见解，或者帮助我们在展望2025年时更好地思考这一机会？谢谢。
Matt Stumpf
Yeah. We still feel very confident, Ralph, in the ability for us to contribute a material portion of revenue from the ecommerce opportunity in 2025. But, again, it's very difficult to predict when and how much that growth is going to come in during the period in 2025. So, I think we'll all see it when it comes, and then we'll provide more details then.
马特·斯塔姆夫
好的，Ralph，我们仍然对电商业务在2025年能带来可观的营收份额充满信心。但同样地，要预测具体在哪个时点、以何种规模出现增长非常困难。所以我想等到实际的增长到来之后，我们会再提供更多细节。
Adam Foroughi
And then, what I've given consistently is, look, our business predictably has got 20% year-over-year growth in it, and that's from just the baseline of operating within the category that we've always traditionally operated in. Then, you've got these things that can drive material upside that's really exciting for us. They're unpredictable. And when things are unpredictable, a lot of times people assume they're going to be unpredictably bad.
亚当·福鲁吉
此外，我一直以来都在强调一件事：在我们传统所熟悉的游戏领域，业务每年都能保持约20%的稳定增长。除此之外，还有一些会带来可观潜力的因素，这部分是不可预测的，但对我们来说有很大吸引力。通常人们一听到“不可预测”就会倾向于认为可能会朝坏的方向发展。
Well, in our business, we've got two things that could be unpredictably really good. One is these model enhancements. We're really, really early still in AI development and research both inside our company and then obviously externally too. This is not a field that's mature. It's early in its existence. It's only going to get better. And when our models get better, we've all seen the impact to revenue.
然而，在我们的业务里，有两点可能带来不可预测的好处。一方面是模型的改进。我们公司内部和行业整体在AI的研发层面都还处于非常早期的阶段，远未成熟，只会越来越好。当模型能力提升，我们都见证过这对收入的拉动。
And the other piece is we've always been a closed-managed platform specifically for mobile games. We now have a lot of proof of life in ecommerce, you've seen it on Twitter, a lot of the noise from customers that are in, but we have not let a lot of customers onto the platform yet as we've been on pilot. As we go more and more open and start attracting thousands and tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of customers to come on over the coming quarters and years, the business is going to continue to show compelling growth.
另一方面是，我们一直以来都是一个主要服务移动游戏领域的封闭式管理平台。现在我们在电商领域也已经有了很多成功案例，你们可能在Twitter上已经看到很多关于客户的声音。不过到目前为止，我们还没让太多客户上平台，大多数还处于试点阶段。随着我们逐步开放，让数千、数万、乃至数十万客户在接下来的几个季度和几年里加入平台，业务会持续呈现出令人信服的增长。
We look at it as one single business and better monetizing the 1 billion-plus daily actives that we see. We don't think about it as revenue from each category matters.
我们把所有业务都视为一个整体，目标是更好地从每天超过10亿的活跃用户中获利。我们并不关注每个垂直领域分别贡献多少收入。
Ralph Schackart
Understood. Thanks, Adam. Thanks, Matt.
拉尔夫·沙克特
明白了。谢谢你，Adam，谢谢你，Matt。
Operator
Moving on to Jason Bazinet with Citi.
运营方
我们现在请花旗银行的Jason Bazinet发言。
Jason Bazinet
Thanks. Would it be possible to share how many people are on your pilot now for ecommerce?
杰森·巴兹尼特
谢谢。能否告知目前有多少人在参与你们电商业务的试点？
Adam Foroughi
We've not broken it out. I mean, if you do industry checks, look at Twitter, there's enough noise where you can assume it's not in the tens. It's certainly not in the thousands. We're limited by core team. It would surprise you how small we maintain our teams. I mean, I do talk about this EBITDA by employee number. We really do take that seriously. We've got around 1,000 people on the entire advertising business, including all the segments of it, Adjust, Wurl and the AppLovin businesses. The ecommerce go-to-market team is roughly 20 people. So, to give you a sense of how lean and automated we run, that should give you a sense, but that team is not going to be able to manually onboard a lot of advertisers in a short amount of time.
亚当·福鲁吉
我们没有具体披露这个数字。你要是去行业里打听或者看一下Twitter，就能发现声音不少，所以可以推断数量肯定不止几个人，但也绝对没达到成千上万。我们的主要限制在于核心团队规模。你大概会惊讶我们团队维持得多么精简。我经常提到员工人均EBITDA这个数字，我们非常重视。我们的广告业务（包括Adjust、Wurl和AppLovin所有业务部分）加起来大约有1000人。电商市场推广团队大概有20人左右。这样可以给你一个直观印象，知道我们是如何精简且自动化地运营的，不过这也意味着该团队无法在短期内手动接入大量广告主。
Jason Bazinet
Great. And this goes back to your self-serve comment that you made, right? That's really what's going to open up the aperture to onboard more clients.
杰森·巴兹尼特
明白。这也回到你先前提到的自助服务模式对吗？这才是真正能敞开大门接纳更多客户的方式。
Adam Foroughi
Self-serve and automated tools are going to be really, really helpful. And so, if you look at just the numbers, what gets us really excited is, in a limited pilot of a few customers on the platform, we're driving actually interesting revenue from this category. So, as we start opening up, we think it's going to be really impactful to the businesses of our clients. It's also very, very impactful for the publishers that we work with. All this inventory is mobile games, and it adds variety to the advertising that the customer is getting on a mobile game. It also removes constantly the customer getting an ad on a gaming publisher for a competitor of that publisher.
亚当·福鲁吉
自助服务和自动化工具真的非常关键。看数据就知道，我们在平台上只为少数客户做了有限试点，却已经从这个品类中带来了相当可观的收入。所以随着我们逐步开放，我们认为这对客户的业务会产生非常重大的影响。对与我们合作的游戏发行商同样也很重要。所有的广告位都在手游上，这会让玩家在游戏内看到更丰富的广告内容，也能避免玩家在某个游戏里不断看到该游戏竞争对手的广告。
So that's really, really valuable because as you think about the growth vectors that we've got just embedded into the business, better monetizing the inventory that we have, but also bringing on more supply, a lot of gaming publishers, the biggest ones have traditionally been fearful of bringing on supply because they do not want to show their competition's ads in their games. Well, now that we're able to show that we have expertise marketing to any category, that's going to open up a ton more supply to come online, especially into our MAX platform over the coming years as well.
这非常宝贵，因为如果你考虑我们业务中内置的增长动力，一方面是更好地实现对现有广告资源的变现，另一方面是引入更多供应。很多大型游戏发行商往往担心接入过多广告资源，因为他们不希望在自己的游戏中展示竞争对手的广告。但现在我们已经能够证明我们在面向任意领域的广告都有经验，这将使更多的广告位上线，尤其是在未来几年为MAX平台带来大幅增量。
Jason Bazinet
Thank you.
杰森·巴兹尼特
谢谢。
Operator
主持人
Our next question will come from Vasily Karasyov with Cannonball.
我们下一个问题将来自Cannonball的Vasily Karasyov。
Vasily Karasyov
Vasily Karasyov
Thank you. Good afternoon. Congratulations. Adam, wanted to ask you this bigger picture question. As you are rolling out your ecommerce solution offering, are you seeing already any kind of response from the incumbent competitors? Because, if I were one of them, I would look at your success in gaming, right, and would probably think I need to do something about it. So, I was wondering how, what you're seeing. Are you prepared for this? And in general, once you roll it out to full scale, what do you think the industry will look like? How will it be different from what it is today?
谢谢。下午好。祝贺你们。Adam，我想问你一个更宏观的问题。你们在推出电商解决方案时，有没有看到现有竞争对手已经有任何反应？因为如果我是他们之一，我会看看你们在游戏领域的成功，对吧，可能会觉得自己需要采取一些措施。所以我想知道你们现在观察到什么。你们对此准备好了吗？总体而言，当你们全面推广这项业务后，你认为行业会是什么样子？它与今天会有何不同？
Adam Foroughi
Yeah. So, I mean, look, we don't look at competition all that much. What I will say is that we're not a platform that's taking the same dollars away from someone else. So, let's compare it to social. If you've got a mattress manufacturer advertising on social today and driving a certain amount of business and they come on to our platform, what they're seeing are new transactions from customers that they wouldn't have otherwise gotten to respond to their ads. Whether those customers were on social or not might be an issue, but, certainly, there's a lot of overlap. But a lot of customers just won't notice ads in one environment. Now, in our environment, we have a full-screen video ad that captures attention, and they come on to our platform and they're driving incremental sales.
是的。所以，我的意思是，我们并没有过多地关注竞争。我要说的是，我们并不是一个从别人那里抢夺相同广告资金的平台。那么，让我们把它与社交媒体作对比。如果你有一家床垫制造商今天在社交平台上投放广告并获得了一定程度的业务，然后他们来到我们的平台，他们所看到的是从原本不会响应他们广告的客户那里获得的新交易。那些客户是否使用社交平台或许是个问题，但显然，这两者有相当的重叠。不过，很多客户在一个环境里可能根本不会注意到广告。而在我们的环境中，我们有全屏视频广告来吸引注意力，他们来到我们的平台并获得了增量销售。
So, what does that mean? That means that if they were spending $5,000 a day on social, they're not going to come to us and say we're going to spend $5,000 a day on you in a performance manner and take the $5,000 over here down to zero. They're now going to be spending $10,000 a day. And this is what I keep talking about and referring to as we're expanding the economy, because it's incremental and entirely performance based. The advertisers are getting measurable profits from the marketing. That's going to expand their business. They're going to then have to go get more inventory. They're going to then be able to sell more product, and the whole economy will expand without causing any detrimental harm to competitors in the ecosystem.
那么这意味着什么？这意味着如果他们之前在社交平台上每天花费5,000美元，他们并不会转而对我们说：“我们打算每天在你这里花5,000美元，以绩效为导向，并把那边的5,000美元降为零。”他们现在会每天花费10,000美元。这就是我一直所说的，我们正在扩大经济，因为这是一种增量且完全基于绩效的模式。广告商能从营销中获得可衡量的利润，这将推动他们的业务扩张。他们随后需要获取更多库存，从而能够销售更多产品，并且整个经济将随之扩张，同时不会对生态系统中的其他竞争对手造成任何负面影响。
Vasily Karasyov
All right. Thank you very much.
好的，非常感谢。
Operator
主持人
Loop Capital's Rob Sanderson has the next question.
Loop Capital的Rob Sanderson将提出下一个问题。
Rob Sanderson
Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. I wanted to ask a question on your go-to-market for the ecommerce and now new verticals. Like, the playbook seems really simple, and I guess that's part of the strategy. Can you kind of discuss how the strategy may have evolved a little since the pilot to now kind of going through holiday season? Any key learnings or pivots? Obviously, self-serve is going to be a big unlock. But just how are you thinking about going to market? And then, anything you can share on priority areas for demand generation in 2025? And then, I have a follow-up.
谢谢。大家下午好。我想问一个关于你们在电商和新垂直领域的市场推广问题。感觉你们的策略手册非常简单，我想这也是策略的一部分。你能谈谈自从试点到现在，在经历假日季后，你们的策略是否有一些演变吗？有没有什么关键的经验或转变？显然，自助服务会是一个很大的突破。但是你们是如何考虑市场推广的？然后，能否分享一下关于2025年需求生成方面的重点领域？最后我还有一个跟进问题。
Adam Foroughi
Yeah. We've been really exclusively focused on sort of mid-market D2C. I call that somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 million to $250 million of GMV. These are companies that tend to move fast, and they don't need a big team on the other side to bring them onboard. And the legal process is much, much shorter. We haven't gone after the very large brands, so no one in this pilot are companies that are incredibly large. And then, we're not focused on the very, very small while we have to manually go after these folks.
是的。我们一直非常专注于中端市场的D2C企业。我将其定义为GMV大约在1,000万到2.5亿美元之间的企业。这些企业往往行动迅速，不需要我们这边配备大型团队来对接，而法律流程也会短得多。我们还没有去针对非常大型的品牌，所以这次试点里没有特别大的企业。而对于非常小的企业，我们也没有重点关注，因为我们还需要人工去对接这些企业。
In the middle, because of the social noise and the feedback loop, the really positive results the customers are getting early in the pilot, we've got just customers coming to us. So, there's a long, long line out the door, which means we're onboarding as we can onboard. Nothing has changed through the holidays. The team's just bombarded with work. They had to work a ton during Black Friday. But other than just the really the sheer volume that we're trying to process on helping clients get onto the platform and see that positive result, there's nothing else that's changed or will change until we get the tools out the door that will allow any customer to come in and in a self-service manner be able to unlock the same type of result that the folks right now are getting with our managed support.
在这个中间市场，由于社交媒体上的各种讨论和反馈循环，试点早期客户所获得的正面效果非常明显，所以客户都主动找上门来。目前可以说我们的门口排起了很长的队，这意味着我们会在能力范围内尽可能地让他们上线。假日期间情况也没什么变化。团队的工作量非常大，黑色星期五期间尤其忙。但是除了我们要处理的大量客户请求，帮助他们上线并获得积极结果之外，没有其他任何变化，也不会有什么改变。直到我们推出能够让任何客户以自助服务方式进入并解锁当前托管支持用户所获得的同类型成果的工具之前，情况都会是这样。
Rob Sanderson
Okay. Thanks for that. And then, question, how much category-specific optimization is required to move sort of these non-DTC adjacencies? Like, does AXON kind of figure this out on its own? You start driving conversions, and it's -- the model starts to figure it out, and maybe the team can steer it with vertical-specific tweaks or whatever, or how much product work is required to just sort of keep expanding for these non-DTC categories?
好的，谢谢。然后，有一个问题，针对非DTC相关领域，需要进行多少类别特定的优化？AXON是否可以自主完成？当你们开始推动转化时，模型就会开始逐步优化，也许团队可以通过一些特定行业的微调或其他方式进行引导。还是说，为了在这些非DTC领域继续扩张，需要投入多少产品研发工作？
Adam Foroughi
Yeah. I referenced it because it works out of the box. So, we don't have the resources to be building custom models for every single vertical, at least today. The goal is to continue to build a more complex model that's smart enough to figure out how to market any product on the other side. That's what we're seeing where these companies in other categories across a wide range are just plugging in and it works.
是的，我提到它是开箱即用的，因为我们今天还没有足够的资源为每一个垂直领域开发定制化模型。我们的目标是继续构建一个更复杂且足够智能的模型，来了解如何营销任何产品。目前我们看到的情况是，各个领域的公司接入之后都能获得良好效果。
Rob Sanderson
So, the challenge is really just go-to-market and creating awareness of those types of advertisers and whatnot?
那么，难点其实只是如何去进行市场推广，并让这些类型的广告商知道你们的产品之类的吗？
Adam Foroughi
100%. We'll have a challenge of get the tools out so that we can bring more and more companies on, and then we'll always have this challenge that we're trying to sell a product where they're able to advertise and do it profitably and have it be incremental and have all of that be measurable. So long as that is the result across every single advertiser relationship with our platform, there'll be a lot of positive noise out there about the platform and the offering, which will continue to bring us customers in an organic manner.
完全正确。我们的挑战是如何尽快推出这些工具，以便让越来越多的公司能够加入。而且我们始终面临这样的挑战：我们所提供的产品要能够帮助他们投放广告并获得盈利，实现增量，且一切都可衡量。只要在我们平台上的每一家广告主都能获得这样的结果，那么外界关于我们平台和产品的正面反馈就会越来越多，这也会继续带来源源不断的自然客户。
Rob Sanderson
All right. Thank you, Adam.
好的，谢谢你，Adam。
Operator
And we'll now hear from Jim Callahan with Piper Sandler.
主持人
接下来由Piper Sandler的Jim Callahan提问。
Jim Callahan
Thanks, guys. Congrats on the nice report. So, we've been getting some questions on how you're servicing some of the extra ecommerce demand. Can you talk about maybe, like, what kind of inventory is converting best, and if perhaps this is different from the inventory that converts better for gaming?
Jim Callahan
谢谢，各位。祝贺你们的好成绩。我们收到了一些关于你们如何应对额外电商需求的问题。能否谈一下哪种广告库存的转化效果最好，以及这是否与那些对游戏转化更好的库存有所不同？
Adam Foroughi
It's all the same inventory. It's full-screen video ad that sits on top of the 1 billion-plus daily active users playing games, but we don't have access to differentiated inventory. It's a unified auction. Sometimes an ad for a mattress will be the one that's selected. Sometimes an ad for Candy Crush will be the one that's selected. It all depends on what the model does, but the end user and the end supply is all the same across all categories.
Adam Foroughi
是同样的广告库存。这些全屏视频广告会投放给超过10亿的游戏日活用户，但我们并没有不同类别的广告库存可供选择，而是统一竞价。有时会投放床垫广告，有时投放《Candy Crush》的广告，具体取决于模型的判断。但对最终用户以及最终广告资源而言，各个品类都是一样的。
Jim Callahan
Got it. Okay. That is helpful. And apologies if you talked about this in the beginning. I was having some audio issues. Looks like you're rolling out 28-day models. Has there been any sort of early feedback here on the gaming side? And could that drive kind of incremental spend this year?
Jim Callahan
明白了。好的，这很有帮助。如果你一开始已经谈到这一点，我在此表示抱歉，我当时的音频有点问题。看起来你们在推出28天模型。在游戏领域有没有得到任何早期反馈？这是否会在今年带来一些额外的投放量增长？
Adam Foroughi
Those have been out for, I think, a couple of quarters now. And, obviously, I think if you talk to game developers across the border, models tend to work really in a compelling way for all of them. The longer models are the most highly -- most-performant models that we deliver. And so, they have driven up the ability for the mobile customer to spend more profitably on our platform over the last couple of quarters.
Adam Foroughi
我想已经推出了几个季度。显然，如果你跟各地的游戏开发者交谈，他们会说这些模型确实效果非常好。时长更长的模型往往是我们表现最强劲的模型。因此，在过去的几个季度里，它们提高了手游客户在我们平台上以盈利方式进行投放的能力。
Jim Callahan
Got it. Thank you.
Jim Callahan
好的。谢谢。
Operator
Sorry about that, everyone. And we'll now hear from James Heaney with Jefferies.
Operator
抱歉，刚才出现了一些问题。现在让我们请Jefferies的James Heaney提问。
James Heaney
Great. Thanks, guys, for the question. One of the big questions that we've been getting from investors is just around the take rate dynamics between gaming and ecommerce. Understand that you don't charge a fixed rate like other ad tech platforms, but just would be curious how to think about, just the overall mix of the business as you go more towards ecom. Does that have any impact on the take rate? And then, I had a follow-up.
James Heaney
好的，谢谢各位让我提问。投资者向我们提出的一个主要问题是关于游戏和电商之间的抽成比率动态。我们知道你们不像其他广告技术平台那样收取固定费率，但我想了解一下，随着业务更多地向电商方向发展，整体业务结构是否会对抽成比率产生任何影响？另外，我还有一个后续问题。
Adam Foroughi
Yeah. Look, like, as we get better in monetizing the inventory that we buy, the take rate naturally goes up. On the flip side, we don't optimize the take rate. We never have. So, the system is willing to buy a user at 1% or 99%. It really doesn't matter. It's going out and buying users that it thinks it can out-monetize from what it has to pay regardless of what the end result is. But it is important to understand that there's a market. We're paying the highest price the publisher can get from anywhere. And the better and better that we get, the stronger our business is going to get, because that take rate can expand.
Adam Foroughi
是的。看，当我们越来越擅长利用所购买的广告库存来盈利时，抽成比率自然会上升。另一方面，我们并不刻意优化抽成比率，从来没有这么做过。所以系统在购买用户时，无论抽成比率是1%还是99%，都无所谓。它会根据自身判断去购买那些能够带来更高回报的用户，而不考虑最终结果。但需要理解的是，市场就在那里。我们为出版商支付的价格是它们能从任何地方获得的最高价。随着我们的能力不断提升，我们的业务也会越来越强，因为抽成比率可能会不断扩大。
James Heaney
Yeah. That's helpful. And, Matt, now that ecommerce is, obviously, becoming a much bigger percentage of your business, can you just talk about the seasonality, and how we should be thinking about that going forward as it relates to both the revenue growth and the expense profile? Thank you.
James Heaney
好的，这很有帮助。Matt，既然电商已经明显成为你们业务中越来越大的一部分，能否谈一下季节性因素，以及我们未来在考虑收入增长和支出结构时应该如何看待这些因素？谢谢。
Matt Stumpf
Yeah. On the expense side, it shouldn't affect us much whatsoever. Obviously, the expenses are primarily data center costs and payroll. So, those are -- those costs are more driven by usage rate, and we've kind of communicated in the past that as we grow revenue, that we're expecting roughly 10% on an annual basis, is that drag from incremental data center costs as we grow revenue. So, there shouldn't be much fluctuation there.
Matt Stumpf
好的。从支出方面来看，这对我们几乎不会造成太大影响。显然，支出主要是数据中心成本和薪酬。这些成本更多地受到使用率的影响，我们过去也曾说过，随着收入增长，每年我们大概会有10%左右的额外成本来自数据中心的增量支出，因此支出方面不会出现太大波动。
And then, on the ecommerce side of the business, as we grow and ecommerce becomes a larger portion of the overall pie, and as we start to move towards it being a material portion of the overall revenue, obviously, we'll be subject then to ecommerce seasonality and everything we've talked about in the past. Obviously, Black Friday and the holiday periods will see slightly larger periods of revenue.
然后，在电商业务这边，随着我们业务增长，电商占总体业务的比重会越来越大，当电商逐渐成为整体收入的重要部分时，我们必然会受到电商季节性以及我们过去讨论过的各种因素的影响。显然，黑色星期五以及假期期间的收入会相对更高一些。
James Heaney
Great. Thank you.
James Heaney
好的，谢谢。
Matt Stump
Welcome.
Matt Stump
不客气。
Operator
主持人
Chris Kuntarich with UBS. Please go ahead with your question.
来自UBS的Chris Kuntarich。请开始您的提问。
Chris Kuntarich
Great. Thanks for taking the question. Can you just talk a little bit more about the 1Q sequential growth drivers of the ecommerce business? Is this -- should we be thinking about this more same advertiser spend or more driven so by new incremental advertisers?
很好。谢谢你们回答我的问题。能不能再谈谈第一季度电商业务环比增长的主要驱动因素？我们应该更多地把它看作是来自现有广告商的持续投放，还是更多来自新的增量广告商？
Adam Foroughi
Well, we haven't broken out ecommerce, right? But 1Q -- in a traditional advertising business, typically, 1Q steps down. You have two less days, and you've got seasonality effect in the fourth quarter. So, we would have that for sure in the ecommerce category across the current advertiser base. If we didn't add a single new advertiser, then by definition, that category couldn't expand in Q1 versus Q4.
嗯，我们并没有单独披露电商的数据，对吧？但在传统广告业务中，第一季度通常会环比下降。因为第一季度少了两天，再加上第四季度的季节性因素。所以，在当前的广告商群体中，电商业务也不可避免地会受到这种影响。如果我们一个新广告商都不增加，那么从定义上来说，这一类别的收入在第一季度相比第四季度就不会增长。
But as a whole, we're guiding to expansion in the business even in Q1 against Q4. And, frankly, that's just because our business is growing really quickly right now. And we're guiding that way, implying that I think it was a 4% quarter-over-quarter guide up with two less days. So, you have 2% less days, because we're confident that just as a baseline level, regardless of seasonality or any bump that we had in Q4, you're going to have continued growth into Q1.
不过，总体来看，我们对于第一季度业务依然给出了环比第四季度增长的指引。坦白说，这是因为我们的业务目前增长得非常快。我们之所以这么指引，大概是因为我们预期，即便少了两天，环比增幅也能达到4%左右。换句话说，少了2%的天数，但我们对业务有信心，认为不管季节性因素或第四季度出现的任何波动，业务在第一季度依然会继续增长。
Chris Kuntarich
Got it. And just one quick follow-up. As you think about the cohort of ecommerce advertisers that have been on -- been engaging with you for a longer period of time versus some of your newer ones, what are you seeing from the willingness to spend into higher daily spend thresholds?
明白了。我再问一个简单的后续问题。当你们对比那些在你们平台上合作时间更长的电商广告商与新加入的广告商时，你们看到他们在提升日投放上限方面的意愿有何差异？
Adam Foroughi
I mean, it's volatile only because we got into the category right into Q4. So, a lot of these ecommerce companies go bonkers going into Black Friday and going into the holidays. And then just -- we're even learning the business model right now. As you go into Christmas time, they're sort of out of inventory, and they got to go replenish inventory. And so, they'll spike, they'll drop, they'll come back. But, ultimately, we're performance marketing business. And so, as they get inventory replenished and they get into Q1, they ramp back up.
是这样的，之所以波动性大，主要是因为我们是在第四季度才开始涉足电商这个领域。许多电商公司在黑色星期五和假日期间会疯狂投放，然后——我们现在其实也在学习他们的商业模式。到了圣诞节，他们的库存基本告罄，需要去补货。投放额可能会大幅拉升、然后回落，接着再反弹。但从根本上说，我们是一个效果营销平台。所以当他们补足库存并进入第一季度后，投放又会重新加速。
And so, we see volatility just due to the nature of the business, but they see great result on the platform. So that means over time, as you go normalize for that seasonality, there'll just be consistent lines of revenue for us that should be growing, not only should be growing because of their success on our platform, helping their businesses become larger, in which case, they'll reinvest more into marketing, but also because we're really early on this. It's only been a matter of a few months so far. We're still in one of the earliest versions of our model. That model in this category is a couple of years behind on the evolution of a model to the gaming model.
因此，我们之所以看到波动性，是由于行业本身的特点。不过，他们在我们平台上能获得非常好的效果。这意味着，随着时间推移，假设撇开季节性因素，最终我们还是会有持续增长的收益。之所以能增长，一方面是因为他们在我们平台上的成功帮助他们企业规模变得更大，他们会投入更多资金来做营销；另一方面也是因为我们现在才刚刚起步，才几个月时间而已。目前我们使用的还是最早期的模型版本，而这一模型在电商这一领域的成熟度，跟游戏领域已经发展的模型相比，落后了几年。
So, we've got a long runway of -- a long roadmap of things to do to improve the gaming side, and the gaming models are years ahead of now the ecommerce model. And so, we're playing catchup to the efficacy of that gaming model. So, our platform is only going to get better and better as we go on and go forward from here.
所以，我们在游戏模型这方面有很长的升级路线要走，而游戏模型比电商模型要领先好几年。现在我们正在努力让电商模型追上游戏模型的效率。随着我们不断前进和改进，我们的平台只会越来越强大。
Chris Kuntarich
Thank you.
谢谢。
Operator
主持人
The next question comes from Omar Dessouky with BofA. Omar, you're currently muted.
接下来是来自美国银行的Omar Dessouky的提问。Omar，你目前处于静音状态。
Omar Dessouky
Great. Thank you. Okay. So, I'm intrigued by this notion that your technology works for many different types of advertisers. It seems that everyone is calling the non-gaming ecommerce. And within ecommerce, there are different types of, I guess, categories, some products, some subscriptions, things like that. You put out the AXON Pixel. So, ecommerce, merchants have that on their website now to help you attribute. Is that enough to access all of these different types of ecommerce advertisers? That's the first question. So, really, the question is, is your technology -- is all of your technology deployed, at least on the attribution side, to access that 10 million advertisers in the world? Okay. That's the first question.
很好。谢谢。我对你们的技术可适用于众多不同类型广告主这一点非常感兴趣。似乎大家都把非游戏类广告称作电商业务。而在电商领域，又包含了各种类型，比如商品、订阅服务等等。你们推出了AXON Pixel，因此电商商家现在可以在自己的网站上安装它来帮助你们进行归因。这是否足以覆盖所有这些不同类型的电商广告主？这是我的第一个问题。其实，我想问的是，你们的技术——至少在归因这一端——是否已经全部部署完毕，可以触及全球那一千万家广告主？好的，这是第一个问题。
And then, given that your AI has shown such efficacy, is it now going to start working for in-app install for non-gaming categories? This would be like non-gaming apps. Is that now a growth segment at '25? Because I think to date, that's been a very, very small part of your business, and I'm wondering if that's about to inflect as well.
另外，鉴于你们的AI表现如此出色，它现在是否也会开始应用于非游戏类别的应用内安装？也就是说，非游戏类的App投放。这是否会成为你们在2025年的一个增长点？因为到目前为止，这块似乎在你们业务中占比极小，我想知道它是否也即将迎来转折。
Adam Foroughi
Yeah. So, it's a great question. So, the first one, I think you said is that, have we deployed all of our technology for attribution and being able to bring on customers on the platform, we certainly have Pixel integration. That's going to be consistent for any website to be able to advertise on our platform. But I wouldn't say that in any aspect of this business that we're at maturity and all the technology that we can release, you can always do more to get to more attribution that's accurate with advertisers. And so, we're working on continuously adding tools to that.
是的，这是个很好的问题。关于你所说的第一个问题，即我们是否已全面部署了归因技术并具备让客户在平台上投放的能力——我们确实已经推出了Pixel集成，任何网站都可以通过Pixel来在我们的平台上投放广告。但我不会说我们在业务的任何层面都已完全成熟，也不会说我们所有可能的技术都已经发布。实际上，我们仍然可以进一步优化，为广告主提供更精准的归因。所以，我们也在持续开发更多工具来完善这一部分。
So, I will say, though, it obviously works. It works in a category of websites and ecommerce. We're seeing it work in broader than that other categories of non-gaming on the web. And so, any type of customer, once we're self-service, will be able to come into the platform and advertise as long as they have a website.
但我必须说，现在它确实已经在各类网站和电商领域发挥作用了，我们也看到它在更广泛的非游戏类网络广告上同样有效。因此，一旦我们上线自助服务模式，任何拥有网站的客户都可以自行接入平台投放广告。
Then, you've got other types of advertisers. You've got game advertisers, and you've got non-gaming app advertisers, and then you've got websites who also have an app. Those last two, we have to do work to bring online, but it's work that we'll be doing throughout this year. So, it's not something where, I think you said, we'll inflect in '25. It's not something that is a '25 thing. It's just something that's in our roadmap that we're actively working on, and we do expect that then opens up even new categories as we go into later through this year and then next year and beyond.
然后，还有其他类型的广告主，比如游戏广告主、非游戏App广告主，以及既有网站又有App的广告主。后面这两类都还需要我们再做一些工作才能完全支持，这些工作我们会在今年持续推进。你提到的是不是要到2025年才开始有转折？其实并不是一个必须等到2025年的项目，它正处于我们的产品规划中，我们也在积极开发。我们预计，随着今年后期以及明年、乃至更远的时间点逐步展开，这将为我们打开更多新的业务类别。
Google本来就有的模式。
Omar Dessouky
Thank you.
谢谢。
Operator
主持人
Moving on to Martin Yang with OppCo.
现在请OppCo的Martin Yang发言。
Martin Yang
Thank you for taking my question. First question just for Adam. Since you took oversight of the HR function last quarter, what are the changes you can talk about on recruiting, streamlining the operation? Anything worth highlighting to us?
谢谢你们接受我的提问。第一个问题是给Adam的。自从你在上个季度开始负责HR工作以来，你能谈谈在招聘和精简运营方面做出了哪些变化吗？有没有什么值得向我们重点说明的？
Adam Foroughi
Look, I mean, my focus has been on streamlining the team and processes and getting really focused. And we did announce that Apps sale that we're working on as well in our talk script. And really, this is all about just we see a lot of opportunity in front of us. We have a long roadmap, a lot of things to do. And when you have that organic opportunity, you got to get everyone focused on it. And so, it's really been around streamlining.
是的，我的重点一直是精简团队和流程，并让大家更加专注。我们在发言稿里也提到了我们正在进行的Apps出售事宜。其实，这主要是因为我们在面前看到了许多机遇，我们还有很长的规划，还有很多事情要做。当面临这样的自然机遇时，就需要让所有人都专注在上面。所以，我们的做法主要是精简工作。
I mean, we're one of the most financially lucrative businesses to be constantly announcing layoffs. Now, we don't want to constantly be doing that, but since I took over HR, my job was to go, where are areas of the business that are not perfectly aligned with these organic opportunities, and let's start shedding those so that we can really narrow in and focus on what's in front of us. And so, we're really getting to that place. And once we get there, I think it's going to be even more exciting times here.
我的意思是，我们是一家利润非常可观的企业，但却在不断宣布裁员。我们并不想持续地做这件事，但自从我负责HR以来，我的工作就是去寻找在哪些业务领域与这些自然机遇没有完全对齐，然后逐步剥离那些领域，以便我们可以更加聚焦目前的核心方向。我们现在正在往那个方向推进，一旦达成，我认为这里会迎来更加令人振奋的时刻。
Martin Yang
Thank you. My -- another question is about, you talked about non-gaming helping with the supply. So, do you expect market share gain on mediation? And how will the additional supply over time help the gaming business?
谢谢。我还有一个问题，你刚才提到，非游戏广告主可以帮助拓展供给。那么，你们是否预期会在聚合业务上获得更多的市场份额？随着时间推移，这些新增的广告库存将如何帮助游戏业务呢？
Adam Foroughi
Look, our market share is really high, okay? So let's -- setting aside market share, let's just talk about sheer inventory. We're getting new game publishers all the time that run game ads. We're the best at monetizing it at this point. And so that aspect of the business growth in gaming supply is there. Now, that's just sort of organic and natural, but it's not some step function opportunity.
是这样的，我们的市场份额已经相当高了，对吧？先不谈市场份额，我们来聊一下纯粹的广告库存。我们一直在不断获取新的游戏发行商投放游戏广告。就目前而言，我们是最擅长将其变现的。所以，在游戏供给方面，业务一直有自然增长。但这并不是一个会突然大幅跃升的机会。
What I was referring to is, if you look at the in-app purchasing apps, most of them where a lot of consumer time is spent on gaming don't actually run ads. They don't run ads because if they can monetize a user at really effective rates with in-app purchasing, why would they run ads to their competition? And King was a perfect example of this, and they used to report underneath Activision when they were public pre-acquisition, they launched ads with non-gaming advertisers and created a lot of incremental revenue doing so.
我所说的是，如果你看看那些通过应用内购买变现的应用，其中许多用户的主要使用时间在游戏上面，但他们实际上并不投放广告。因为如果他们能够通过应用内购买非常有效地实现用户变现，那为什么还要向竞争对手的游戏投放广告呢？King就是一个很好的例子，他们在被动视收购之前作为一家上市公司时，就曾经在其游戏中投放了来自非游戏类广告商的广告，从而创造了不少增量收入。
Traditionally, in the mobile gaming mediation market, vast, vast majority of the ads were for games that were competitive to the publisher game. As we execute on bringing on more and more advertisers in non-gaming categories, we think that it's going to be pretty reasonable to sell the MAX product and our DSP platform to these gaming publishers who are monetizing predominantly or exclusively with in-app purchasing, bring on that supply, and that will create another expansion vector.
传统上，在移动游戏聚合广告市场里，绝大多数广告都是互相竞争的游戏广告。而当我们在非游戏领域吸引越来越多的广告主后，我们认为向那些主要或完全依靠应用内购买变现的游戏发行商推介我们的MAX产品和DSP平台就会变得非常合理，可以争取到他们的广告库存，这将带来另一个扩张方向。
Martin Yang
Thank you.
谢谢。
Operator
主持人
Alec Brondolo with Wells Fargo has the next question.
来自富国银行的Alec Brondolo将提下一个问题。
Alec Brondolo
Hey, guys. Thanks so much for the question. I think you're describing a situation where the business is rapidly transitioning from demand constrained and supply constrained as you kind of expand the aperture of categories that you service. I guess acknowledging that some games could increase their ad load and that could increase available supply, how do you think about kind of the amount of spend growth the current supply base that kind of the mobile game environment or ecosystem has today could absorb? Like, could the inventory be twice as valuable, 3 times as valuable? Do you think that's kind of the constraint on growth going forward?
大家好，谢谢你们回答我的问题。看起来随着你们逐步扩充所服务的广告类别，业务正迅速从“需求受限”转向“供给受限”。当然，我承认有些游戏可能会增加广告加载量，从而提升可用库存。你们是如何看待当前移动游戏生态系统能够吸收的投放增长空间？这些库存的价值是否可以提升到2倍或3倍？你们认为这是未来增长的限制因素吗？
Adam Foroughi
Yeah, I don't think we're saying that's a constraint. I mean, in the last year, supply has been pretty constant, and I think we grew 80%, 90%. We're pretty early on both sides. On the demand side, we're just getting into areas that are going to help us much better monetize our inventory. And we've given out examples in terms of just ARPDAU that some of the largest social properties are able to monetize that, being significantly higher than the ARPDAU that we monetize this audience in today, and yet our ad unit is a full-screen video. It requires some amount of engagement and viewing with the video, and it's really high impact.
是的，我不认为这会成为限制因素。过去一年里，广告库存大致保持不变，而我想我们在这一年增长了80%到90%。现在来看，我们在供给和需求两端都还处于早期阶段。在需求端，我们才刚刚涉足能够帮助我们更好地变现广告库存的领域。我们也给出了一些示例，比如在ARPU（每用户平均收入）或ARPU/DAU层面，一些最大的社交平台对同样用户的变现水平明显高于我们现在的水平，而我们使用的广告形式还是全屏视频，需要用户真正参与观看，并且影响力非常大。
The only reason we're not better monetizing today where we would say maybe we're supply constrained is because we don't have every type of advertiser across the world on our platform yet. Over the coming quarters, years, decade plus, as we onboard more and more advertisers, and we're talking in the millions-plus, that's going to allow us to have a lot more demand density. Our algorithms are only going to get stronger. Our data footprint is only going to get stronger. And forget supply increase, same exact supply, 1 billion-plus daily actives are just going to be better monetized. There's a long runway of growth there.
我们之所以还未达到更高的变现水平，而会给人一种“供给受限”的感觉，唯一的原因是因为我们尚未让全球所有类型的广告主都接入到我们的平台。接下来的几个季度、几年，甚至十年里，随着我们不断增加更多广告主（数量可达数百万甚至更多），我们将拥有更高的需求密度。我们的算法会变得越来越强大，我们的数据覆盖范围也会越来越广。哪怕供应完全不变——依然是10亿以上的日活用户——我们也能够获得更高的变现水平，这其中有很长的成长跑道。
The supply side is just gravy on top. It's really just an extra area that we think is just going to be given to us for free that's going to come. We certainly don't think it's going to be anywhere near as impactful as that demand expansion that's going to drive our growth.
供给层面的增长只是额外的好处。我们认为这部分将会自然到来，但不会像需求扩张那样成为推动我们增长的主要动力。
Alec Brondolo
Thank you so much.
非常感谢。
Operator
主持人
Moving on to Arsenije Matovic with Wolfe.
现在请Wolfe的Arsenije Matovic发言。
Arsenije Matovic
Hey. Thanks for taking the question. I guess, what is the thought process you guys have on bringing Audience+ out of pilots and into self-serve? I guess, what have you learned with the pilots that will help you improve or make changes to the solution before making it self-serve? And I guess, what's a good point to look at in 2025 on when we should expect it to go self-service? And then, just one brief follow-up.
你好。谢谢你们回答我的问题。我想问的是，你们目前对于把Audience+从试点阶段转向自助服务所持的思路是什么？在试点过程中，你们学到了哪些可以帮助改进或调整该解决方案的经验，以便在推出自助服务之前进行完善？另外，在2025年有哪些关键时间节点可以用来判断何时能推出自助服务？我还有一个简短的后续问题。
Adam Foroughi
I mean, we'll launch self-service, I think, when we're ready for it. The most important keys there are, one, we're going to have tools that automate every step of the process, including AI agents that are helping the advertisers get onboard and get going. They really help them through the process so that they feel like they're engaging with human beings, but they're engaging with bots and they're getting going.
我想我们会在充分准备好后再推出自助服务。其中最重要的关键点有两个：第一，我们会拥有能够自动化所有流程的工具，包括用AI代理来帮助广告主上线并开始投放。这些AI代理会在整个流程中给予他们真正的帮助，让他们感觉像在与真人互动，实际上却是在与机器人交互，并快速开始投放。
The other key piece is you have to build a lot of tools and content moderation controls when you open up a platform as big as ours. And at this point, I mean, in the advertising realm, you've got Facebook, you've got Google. We're now the next really big platform out there. We opened that up. And we would get a lot of fraud that came onboard if we didn't have a lot of tools written to prevent that. So, we're going to take it really seriously. We'll be conservative.
另一个关键点是，当你要开放像我们这样规模庞大的平台时，就必须搭建大量的工具和内容审查机制。现在，如果我们看广告领域，有Facebook，也有Google，而我们是下一个真正大型的平台。一旦我们开放平台，如果没有专门的工具来防范，就会吸引大量欺诈投放。所以我们必须非常谨慎，并保持保守的态度。
I don't know that we have any need to accelerate growth right now. We're growing really, really quickly as it is and controlling the pace, but we're developing all these tools in the background. And once we're ready, we'll bring it out. We'll let you all know, and we think it will be very impactful, not just for a moment in time, but that will compound over quarters, years and decade plus.
我不认为我们当前有必要去加速增长。我们的增长已经非常快了，也在控制这个节奏。与此同时，我们也在后台开发所有这些工具，一旦准备就绪，我们就会推出来，并告知大家。我们认为它不仅会带来一时的冲击力，还会在未来的数个季度、数年甚至十年里持续产生复合效应。
Arsenije Matovic
Got it. And thanks for providing the segmented guidance. I just wanted to understand with the Apps sales, is it going to be tranched out where you're going to roll off a few studios over time throughout the year? Or is it once it closes, all 10 studios are off, no more Apps revenue, and that's kind of the way the mechanism will be? And that would happen, when would that be? At the end of the quarter or -- trying to understand the timing dynamic for Apps revenue modeling for this year.
明白了。谢谢你们提供了分类指引。我想了解一下关于Apps业务的出售，是会分批次在这一年里逐步出售几家工作室，还是在交易完成后所有10家工作室一次性全部剥离，不再有Apps业务收入？会在何时发生？是季度末吗？我想知道今年Apps业务收入在模型中如何确定时间节点。
Matt Stumpf
Yes. So, we're going to be selling the entirety of the Apps business, Arsenije. So that would all come off of the P&L and the balance sheet all at once. And then timing, as I mentioned, I think, in my talk track that we're targeting for that to close within Q2. Obviously, we may be subject to regulatory approval, so that timing may change slightly, but that's kind of where we're targeting, is within Q2.
是的，Arsenije，我们将出售整个Apps业务。也就是说，一旦完成，这部分就会同时从损益表和资产负债表上剔除。至于时间，如我在讲话中提到的，我们的目标是在第二季度完成。当然，我们还可能会受到监管审批的影响，所以具体时间可能略有变化，但大体目标还是在第二季度完成。
Arsenije Matovic
Got it. thank you.
明白了，谢谢。
Operator
主持人
Next question will come from Eric Sheridan with Goldman Sachs.
接下来由高盛的Eric Sheridan提问。
Eric Sheridan
Thanks so much for taking the question. Guys, I wanted to go back to one of the five initiatives you talked about for 2025, personalizing ad experiences. How much of that initiative can be done with what's already been built today versus incremental investments you need to make against the goals of personalization over the medium- to long-term? And from the outside looking in, what should we be watching in terms of how you might implement that and how it might be rolled out in the business more broadly in the years ahead? Thanks so much.
非常感谢你们回答我的问题。我想回到你们提到的2025年五大举措之一，即广告体验个性化。有多少相关工作可以基于现有成果完成？又需要在中长期做哪些额外投入才能实现个性化目标？从外部观察来看，我们应该关注哪些方面，以了解你们会如何实施这一策略，以及它未来可能如何在更广泛的业务中推广？非常感谢。
Adam Foroughi
Yeah. Thanks, Eric. This is -- look, this is all research and development right now. And just to break down what it means, today, if you've got a game -- let's use Candy Crush again as an example. A human being is uploading 20 ads. The end user that sees ads for the Candy Crush campaign run through us sees one of those 20 ads. In the middle, the AI will determine which one of those 20 to place. Now that's not very personalized. It's very static, and the users are seeing the exact same sort of format of ad and the exact same type of video as all the other users who are seeing that campaign.
是的，谢谢你，Eric。现在这一切都还处于研发阶段。简单来说，如果你有一款游戏——再以Candy Crush为例——是由人工上传20个广告素材。通过我们平台投放Candy Crush广告的最终用户看到的只是在这20个素材当中的一个。过程中由AI决定使用这20个素材中的哪一个。这样做的个性化程度并不高，比较静态，所有看到这个广告活动的用户基本看到同样的广告格式、同样的视频类型。
Now, with generative AI and these large language models, you can imagine you can run those top creatives through a model and create many variations. Facebook and Google are talking about this, too, generative AI-enabled ads. It's something that we're working on. We think it will be very impactful in driving consumer response to the ad unit. It's trickier than a text ad because we've got a full-screen video experience. Plus, a lot of times, we've got HTML in the gaming realm. We've got even a mini game inside the HTML.
而现在，有了生成式AI和大型语言模型，你可以想象把这些优质素材投入模型，通过生成式方法得到许多不同的变体。Facebook和Google也在讨论生成式AI驱动的广告，这正是我们正在研究的方向。我们认为，这对于提升用户对广告单元的响应会非常有效。它比文字广告更复杂，因为我们用的是全屏视频。另外，很多时候在游戏领域，我们还会使用HTML广告，甚至会在HTML里放一个迷你游戏。
技术是一样的，但游戏用户是一个特定的用户群体。
So, there's a lot of work to do to personalize that experience. And then, there's a lot of work to do to build a model that can do it, do it automatically and then be able to process it within the constraint of the GPUs that we have. But it's something that we're working on and we think will be impactful when it rolls out, and it's something that's in focus for us this year.
因此，要实现这种体验的个性化，还有很多工作要做。我们需要打造一个能够自动完成此过程的模型，而且还要在现有GPU资源的限制之下进行。但这是我们目前正在积极研究的方向，一旦正式推出后，相信会带来很大的影响，也是我们今年关注的重点之一。
Eric Sheridan
Thank you.
谢谢
Operator
Adam and Matt, we have time for one more question. It will come from Bernie McTernan with Needham & Company.
主持人
Adam和Matt，我们还有时间再接最后一个问题。这个问题来自Needham & Company的Bernie McTernan。
Bernie McTernan
Great. Thanks for taking the question. Maybe just a follow-up on Eric's question on personalization. From some of the checks that we've done, it seems that e-commerce brands are largely using social ads within mobile gaming. Is that an opportunity for you guys that you can help actually make games -- or ads that look more like mobile gaming ads for e-commerce and other verticals?
Bernie McTernan
好的。谢谢你们回答我的问题。也许我想跟进一下Eric关于个性化的提问。根据我们进行的一些调查，似乎电商品牌在手游中主要使用社交广告。对你们来说，这是否是一个机会，可以帮助电商和其他垂直领域的广告看起来更像手游广告，或者甚至将其做成类似游戏的广告形式？
Adam Foroughi
Yeah, possibly. I mean, look, we hope not to be the ones deciding that. We hope the AI and the machines are the ones deciding that. And the beauty is once you're in a machine-created realm, you're going to be able to create way more variations than a human being can. So, whether it's an e-commerce product somehow gamified in the advertisement or something that we can't imagine right now, in theory, the machine is going to be able to do that, and the advertiser and the consumer will gain the benefit of all those new ad variations that will be outputted out of our system.
Adam Foroughi
是的，有可能。我是说，我们并不希望由我们来决定这一点，而是希望由AI和机器来做这个决策。好处在于，一旦进入机器生成的范畴，就可以创造比人类更多的广告变体。无论是把某个电商产品以某种方式“游戏化”地呈现在广告里，还是做一些我们目前想象不到的形式，从理论上来说，机器都可以做到。广告商和用户也能从这些全新的、多样化的广告创意中受益。
Bernie McTernan
Got it. And then just one last one for me. Any feedback that you're hearing from the gaming companies as you're moving into e-commerce and other verticals?
Bernie McTernan
明白了。接着是我最后一个问题。当你们进军电商和其他垂直领域时，你们有没有从游戏公司那里听到什么反馈？
Adam Foroughi
I mean, look, the gaming companies are seeing better performance on our platform every single quarter. So, they're obviously happy. We're a catalyst for their growth and really a requirement for their growth at this point. The publishers themselves, there's been some social commentary on this. When they start seeing more and more of their impressions shifting to e-commerce, they absolutely love it. If you're a game publisher, your worst nightmare would have been, I'm going to monetize my game with all of my competition's ads. That just sucks as an end product, but that's all they had. And so, we allow all of our MAX publishers to see the advertising list run. Some of those publishers have commented about the number of impressions that are shifting to non-gaming categories. When you see that commentary, they're absolutely excited about it.
Adam Foroughi
是这样的，游戏公司在我们平台上的投放每个季度都表现得越来越好，所以他们当然很满意。我们在一定程度上是他们增长的催化剂，而且在当下更像是他们增长所需的必备条件。至于发行商本身，社交媒体上也有一些相应的评论。当他们发现越来越多的广告展示正在转向电商领域时，他们都非常高兴。如果你是一家游戏发行商，最糟糕的情况就是只能通过与自己竞争的游戏广告来变现，这在最终体验上并不理想，但过去他们也只能这么做。现在我们让所有使用MAX的发行商都可以看到广告投放的列表，一些发行商指出，转向非游戏类别的广告展示数量正在不断增加。当你看到他们的这种反馈时，就会发现他们对此感到非常兴奋。
Bernie McTernan
Thank you.
Bernie McTernan
谢谢。
Operator
And again, this concludes the question-and-answer session and the webinar for this quarter. We thank you all for joining us and look forward to seeing you again next quarter. Take care until then.
主持人
好的，本季度的问答环节和网络研讨会到此结束。非常感谢各位的参与，我们期待在下个季度再次见到各位。祝一切顺利。
Adam Foroughi
Thanks, everyone.
Adam Foroughi
谢谢大家。
Matt Stumpf
Thank you.
Matt Stumpf
谢谢。
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