2025-04-21 W. R. Berkley Corporation (WRB) Q1 2025 Earnings Call Transcript
W. R. Berkley Corporation (NYSE:WRB) Q1 2025 Earnings Conference Call April 21, 2025 5:00 PM ET
Company Participants
Rob Berkley - President and CEO
Rich Baio - EVP and CFO
Bill Berkley - Executive Chairman
Conference Call Participants
Andrew Kligerman - TD Securities
Elyse Greenspan - Wells Fargo
Rob Cox - Goldman Sachs
Mike Zaremski - BMO
Josh Shanker - Bank of America
David Motemaden - Evercore ISI
Mark Hughes - Truist Securities
Andrew Anderson - Jefferies
Brian Meredith - UBS
Wes Carmichael - Autonomous Research
Meyer Shields - KBW
Operator
主持人
Good day, and welcome to W. R. Berkley Corporation's First Quarter 2025 Earnings Conference Call. Today's conference call is being recorded.
大家好，欢迎参加W. R. Berkley公司2025年第一季度财报电话会议。今天的电话会议将被录音。
The speakers’ remarks may contain forward-looking statements. Some of the forward-looking statements can be identified by the use of forward-looking words, including without limitation, believes, expects or estimates. We caution you that such forward-looking statements should not be regarded as a representation by us that the future plans, estimates, or expectations contemplated by us will in fact be achieved. Please refer to our annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31st, 2024 and our other filings made with the SEC for a description of the business environment in which we operate and the important factors that may materially affect our results. W. R. Berkley Corporation is not under any obligation and expressly disclaims any such obligation to update or alter its forward-looking statements whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise.
发言内容中可能包含前瞻性声明。其中一些前瞻性声明可通过前瞻性词汇识别，例如“相信”、“预期”或“估计”等。我们提醒您，不应将这些前瞻性声明视为公司未来计划、估算或期望必定会实现的保证。有关我们经营环境的描述以及可能对业绩产生重大影响的重要因素，请参阅截至2024年12月31日的年度报告Form 10-K及我们向美国证监会（SEC）提交的其他文件。W. R. Berkley公司不承担更新或更改前瞻性声明的义务，并明确表示不对此承担任何责任，无论是由于新信息、未来事件或其他原因所引起。
I would now like to call -- like to turn the call over to Mr. Rob Berkley. Please go ahead.
接下来我将电话交给Rob Berkley先生，请发言。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Christa, thank you very much, and good afternoon, good evening all. Thanks for dialing in. And let me echo Christa's warm welcome to our Q1 call. So in addition to me on this end of the phone, you also have Executive Chairman, Bill Berkley, as well as Principal Financial Officer, Rich Baio. We're going to follow our typical agenda where momentarily, I'll be handing it over to Rich. He is going to run you all through some of the highlights from the quarter. I will follow behind him with a couple of additional observations, and then we'll be very pleased to open it up for Q&A.
谢谢你，Christa。大家下午好、晚上好，感谢各位拨打电话参加会议。我也想呼应Christa对大家的热烈欢迎。今天除了我本人外，电话线上还有我们的执行董事长比尔·伯克利，以及首席财务官里奇·拜奥。我们将按照惯例的议程进行，马上我会把话筒交给里奇，他将向大家介绍本季度的一些重点内容。随后我会再补充一些观察，然后我们将进入问答环节，乐意回答大家的问题。
Before I hand it over to Rich, maybe just a sound bite or two from me, perhaps stating the obvious or not perhaps actually stating the obvious. I think the world is chock-a-block full of volatility these days, these weeks, these months and perhaps this year and maybe beyond, seems to be presenting itself in a variety of different ways, political, social, economic and certainly natural catastrophes as well.
在我把话筒交给里奇之前，我想先说几句，也许是显而易见的话，也许并不那么显而易见。我认为当前的世界充满了不确定性——这些天、这些星期、这些月份，甚至可能贯穿整个今年，甚至更久。这种不确定性以各种形式呈现出来，包括政治、社会、经济，当然还有自然灾害。
But it is without a doubt a moment where the realities of risk-adjusted return come into very sharp focus. And from our perspective, it applies to both of the business activities that we participate in, that being underwriting and investing. The resilience of our business model was once again demonstrated over the first quarter and we feel as though it is another example of how this organization is not just built to perform well during moments where there is a tailwind or smooth seas, but in fact, it is built to continue to excel or succeed during more challenging environment circumstances.
但毫无疑问，这是一个需要高度关注风险调整后回报的时刻。对我们而言，这不仅适用于我们参与的两项主要业务活动——承保和投资，也再次印证了我们的业务模型具备强大的韧性。在第一季度中，我们的韧性再次得到了体现，我们相信这再次说明：本公司不仅仅在顺风顺水时能表现优异，而且在面对复杂、具有挑战性的环境下也能持续出色地运作和成功。
From our perspective, it's very important to not lose sight of the goal of the exercise. The goal is to create value. And in our opinion, it's not just about the steps forward you take, it's also about the steps backwards that you avoid. So as we talk about the quarter, there is going to be no but for, there is going to be no lipstick on the pig or any other analogy, we're going to talk about what the results were with cat activity and with a variety of other events and how we managed to navigate through it. It is the reality again that when it comes to value-creation and the power of compounding and what that means for value-creation, avoiding steps backwards is very consequential.
从我们的角度来看，不应忽视行动的最终目标，那就是创造价值。在我们看来，价值不仅体现在你迈出的步伐，也体现在你避免倒退的能力上。因此，在我们讨论这一季度的时候，我们不会用“如果不是……就会如何”的说法，也不会粉饰太平或用任何修辞包装事实。我们将如实说明我们的业绩情况，包括受灾损影响的内容，以及我们是如何应对各种情况的。我们坚信，在价值创造和复利威力的问题上，“避免倒退”具有极其重大的意义。
So, with that, I will hand it over to Rich. Rich, if you want to run us through the highlights, please. And I apologize every now and then if you hear a cough or a sneeze. Here in the Northeast, it is very much peak allergy season. Rich, over to you.
说到这里，我就将话筒交给里奇。里奇，请为我们介绍本季度的重点数据。如果您听到我咳嗽或打喷嚏，提前表示歉意。我们东北部正值过敏高发季节。里奇，交给你了。
Rich Baio
里奇·拜奥
Great. Thanks, Rob. Appreciate it, and good evening, everyone. As you saw, the company started 2025 with a strong first quarter, reporting net income of $418 million or $1.04 per share and an annualized return on beginning of year equity of 19.9%. Despite significant industry-wide catastrophic activity, led by the California wildfires, we continue to demonstrate stability in underwriting earnings and continued growth in net investment income.
谢谢你，Rob。我很感激。大家晚上好。正如大家所看到的，公司在2025年开局强劲，第一季度实现净利润4.18亿美元，每股收益1.04美元，年化净资产收益率达19.9%。尽管行业整体遭受了加州野火主导的重大灾损事件，我们仍展现出承保盈利的稳定性和净投资收益的持续增长。
Operating earnings were $405 million or $1.01 per share, yielding an annualized return on beginning of year equity of 19.3%. The calendar year combined ratio was 90.9% and the current accident year combined ratio excluding cat losses was 87.2%. The driver for this difference was cat losses of 3.7 loss ratio points or $111 million, representing an above-average cat quarter primarily attributable to the California wildfires. Prior year development was favorable in the current quarter by approximately $1 million with small offsets between segments. Accordingly, the current accident year loss ratio excluding cats was 59.4%, representing a 30 basis point increase over the prior year, largely due to business mix.
营业利润为4.05亿美元，每股收益1.01美元，年化净资产收益率为19.3%。本年度合并赔付率为90.9%，若剔除灾损，本事故年度的合并赔付率为87.2%。两者的差异主要来自灾损带来的3.7个百分点损失率，合计1.11亿美元，这反映出灾损水平高于平均季度，主要归因于加州野火。上一年度准备金释放对本季度影响为正，约100万美元，在不同业务板块之间略有抵消。因此，本事故年度在剔除灾损后，其赔付率为59.4%，比去年同期上升30个基点，主要由于业务组合结构的变化。
The expense ratio of 27.8% continues to benefit from the growth in net premiums earned, which grew to a record $3 billion. In addition, the 80 basis point improvement over the prior year quarter includes a non-recurring compensation-related benefit of approximately half of this amount. We believe the expense ratio should be comfortably below 30% for the full year as we continue to invest in our newer operating units and make investments in our infrastructure.
费用率为27.8%，受益于已赚保费的增长，后者创下新高，达到30亿美元。此外，费用率同比改善80个基点，其中约一半来自一次性薪酬相关利好。我们认为全年费用率有望稳定保持在30%以下，即便我们持续投资于新业务单位以及基础设施建设。
有点高，远高于PGR、GEICO。
As it relates to premium production, the company grew net premiums written to a record of more than $3.1 billion. The Insurance segment grew 10.2% to our second-best quarter of $2.7 billion, with growth in all lines of business. The Reinsurance & Monoline Excess segment grew 8.2% to a record quarter of $439 million with growth in property and excess workers' compensation, partially offset by a small decrease in casualty.
在保费生产方面，公司实现创纪录的净承保保费收入，超过31亿美元。其中，保险业务板块增长10.2%，达到27亿美元，为历史第二高季度水平，所有险种均实现增长。再保险与单一责任险板块增长8.2%，达4.39亿美元，创下季度新高，增长主要来自财产险和工伤超额赔偿险，部分被意外伤害险的小幅下降所抵消。
Turning to investments. Net investment income increased 12.6% to $360 million. The improvement is primarily attributable to two items. First, our record net invested assets of $30.7 billion and higher new money rates on our growing fixed maturity portfolio, along with strong operating cash flows in the quarter of $744 million. And second, higher investment fund income arising from transportation and financial services-related sectors. As a reminder, we report investment funds on a one-quarter lag. And with the recent volatility seen in the equity markets, you may expect some correlation between public and private-equity markets. Accordingly, we anticipate investment fund income may be at the lower end of our quarterly range of $10 million to $20 million in the next quarter.
转向投资方面。净投资收益增长12.6%，达3.6亿美元。增长主要来自两方面：第一，我们的净投资资产创下新高，达到307亿美元，同时新资金的固定收益投资利率上升，加之本季度经营现金流强劲，达7.44亿美元；第二，来自交通运输和金融服务相关领域的投资基金收入有所上升。需要提醒的是，我们的投资基金收入按季度滞后一季入账。考虑到近期股市波动，公私募市场之间可能出现一定联动。因此，我们预计下季度投资基金收入可能处于1000万美元至2000万美元的季度区间下限。
The credit quality of our portfolio remains very strong at AA minus with a duration on our fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash equivalents, increasing from the fourth quarter of 2.6 years to the current quarter of 2.7 years. Foreign currency losses in the quarter of $19 million related to the weakening US dollar relative to most other currencies. Offsetting this income statement loss is an improvement in the currency translation loss and stockholders' equity of $24 million. The effective tax rate was 22.5% in the quarter and we continue to expect 2025 will be 23% plus or minus.
我们的投资组合信用质量依然非常强劲，评级为AA-，固定收益投资（包括现金及等价物）的久期从上季度的2.6年上升至本季度的2.7年。本季度产生外汇损失1900万美元，主要由于美元相对于大多数其他货币贬值。然而，这一损失在损益表中被汇率折算损失回转所抵消，对股东权益的影响为正2400万美元。本季度有效税率为22.5%，我们预计2025年全年税率仍将维持在23%上下。
Stockholders' equity increased by more than $500 million or 6.2% over the beginning of year to a record $8.9 billion. Book value per share before dividends and share repurchases grew 7.1% in the quarter and our balance sheet remains strong with cash and cash equivalents of more than $1.9 billion and financial leverage of 24.2%, the lowest level in decades with no debt maturities until 2037.
股东权益较年初增长超过5亿美元，增幅达6.2%，达到创纪录的89亿美元。每股账面价值（不含股息和回购影响）本季度增长7.1%。资产负债表保持稳健，现金及等价物超过19亿美元，财务杠杆为24.2%，为数十年来的最低水平，且公司在2037年前无到期债务。
Rob, with that, I'll turn it back to you.
Rob，现在我把话筒交还给你。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Great. Rich, thank you very much. That was great. Let me offer a couple of additional comments just to piggyback on what Rich just shared. As far as the top-line goes, we came in where we were up about 10% or to be more specific, if I were a CPA, I would call it 9.9%. But we were pretty pleased with that. Obviously, rate contributed to that, ex-comp coming in at 8.3%. In addition to that, the renewal retention ratio continues to hang around 80%. I mean, it's like bowels to the ship. It just doesn't move around very much. But I think it's a relevant data point because it tells you as we continue to push for rate and making sure that we're getting paid, but we need to get paid, we are not turning the book.
太好了，谢谢你，Rich。刚才的内容非常精彩。我来补充几点，呼应一下Rich提到的内容。首先，从总保费（top-line）来看，我们的增长大约是10%，更精确地说，如果我是一位注册会计师，会告诉你是9.9%。我们对这个结果感到非常满意。显然，费率上调是推动因素之一，去除工伤险之后的保费增长为8.3%。此外，保单续保留存率仍维持在80%左右。就像船的压舱物一样，这个数据基本保持不变。我认为这个数据非常关键，它说明我们虽然持续推动保费上调，确保收取合理价格，但我们并没有“洗掉”整本保单业务。
Drilling down a little bit more on the insurance front, particularly as it relates to market conditions, and I would tell you that professional liability has become particularly competitive. We've been talking to you all about the D&O market for some period of time, I would add cyber as well as far as competitive and at the risk of being a little bit rude, which I apologize for in advance. I think transactional liability as far as the marketplace probably gets the stupid award.
更深入谈谈保险板块，尤其是市场环境方面。我要说的是，职业责任险市场的竞争现在特别激烈。我们之前也和大家谈过一段时间关于董事与高管责任险（D&O）的情况，现在网络保险（Cyber）也很卷。请允许我有点直白，事前先道个歉——我觉得就市场定价水平而言，交易责任险大概可以获得“最不理性”的称号。
As far as -- maybe one other data point, we've chatted with you all about some of our reservations around workers' compensation and medical trends. And you might look at our numbers in the release and some of the exhibits and say, well, how does that reconcile with the growth that they're seeing? And let me again, similar to last quarter, flag for you that the growth that we are seeing is really driven by specialty comp. And what do I mean by that? Typically, it's a little higher hazard in nature. There is less competition and you're not seeing both regional and in particular national carriers trying to play the game and leverage the multi-line offering to get the comp. So that continues to be a good opportunity from our perspective.
再补充一个数据点——我们之前也聊过关于工伤险和医疗趋势方面的一些担忧。你可能会看我们的财报和附表数据，会问：“既然你们有顾虑，那为何还能实现增长？”就像上个季度我提醒大家的，我们目前的增长主要来自“特种工伤险”（specialty comp）。这是什么意思？就是这类业务本身风险更高一些，竞争相对更少，而且我们没有看到那些区域性甚至全国性的大型保险公司在这个领域卷起来，用多险种捆绑销售去争抢这块市场。所以从我们的角度来看，这依然是一个不错的机会。
Switching over to the other segment that being Reinsurance & Excess, I would call out here, I don't think we break out all this detail, but it will be in the queue. And that is professional liability. It is a component of casualty. So our professional liability book as it relates to reinsurance was down a little over 25%. That is really just a reflection of market conditions. And quite frankly, our colleagues have the discipline and the courage to do the right thing. So we'll have to see. I've commented in the past how it seems like the reinsurance market, just as it was some number of years ago, sluggish to respond to property, particularly cat, it seems as though yet again we're seeing something similar just in the casualty lines and in particular professional. So we will stay tuned and see how that unfolds.
再来说说另一个板块——再保与超额责任险。我要特别指出，我们并没有在公开材料中披露所有细节，不过将在后续季报中呈现。这里我想说的是职业责任险，它属于意外险类目。在再保业务中，我们的职业责任险承保量同比下降了25%以上，这完全是市场环境所致。坦白讲，我们的同事展现了纪律性和做正确事情的勇气。过去我曾说过，再保市场在应对财产险，尤其是灾损业务方面，总是反应缓慢。现在我们似乎又在意外险、特别是职业责任险上看到相似的情况。我们会持续关注事态发展。
Rich covered the loss ratio earlier as far as the ex-cat accident year and how it ticked up about 30 basis points. As he mentioned, that's really due to mix. The only other comment I would make is we are paying close attention, as you would expect, to the tariffs and it is a very fluid situation as everyone has an appreciation. So trying to unpack that and figure out what it means for loss costs, that's something that we are working on actively. And again, as that comes into sharper focus, that may be instructive to us as to how we think about both loss ratio as well as rate need.
刚才Rich提到，在排除灾损后，本事故年度的赔付率上升了大约30个基点，这主要是业务结构造成的。我想再补充一点，正如大家所料，我们非常关注“关税”这一变量，现在的形势非常不确定。我们正在努力分析关税对损失成本的潜在影响。随着事态更加明朗，这可能会指导我们对赔付率和费率需求的重新评估。
对外部环境的评价只能说明自身不够强壮。
As far as the expense piece goes, I would echo Rich's comment about comfortably under $30 million. The only other comment I would make, yes, he did flag that we had a bit of a benefit from an over-accrual from last year. So maybe that skewed it a little bit in the quarter, but arguably, it also meant that we overstated our expense ratio a little bit as it turns out last year. So it was actually a little bit better last year than we had reported.
关于费用方面，我认同Rich的看法，我们的费用支出应能轻松控制在3,000万美元以下。他也提到，我们这季度的费用率受到去年多计提部分回转的正面影响，可能对本季度数据造成一定偏差。但换个角度来看，这也意味着我们去年实际的费用率其实比当时报出来的要更低一些，表现略好。
Flipping over to the investment components. So really things are firing on all cylinders. Not that there aren't challenges, but we're really pleased with the portfolio, how it's managed, how it's been positioned. Rich commented on the duration ticked out to 2.7 years and continue to maintain that very strong quality at a strong AA minus. I think one of the important punchlines here is the opportunity or the upside that we see both on the underwriting side and now specifically in the investment side. So we have a book yield on the domestic portfolio of approximately 4.7%. We got what's rolling off the portfolio is something below that. So we're going to see some lift from that. And in addition to that, we have a new money rate that's probably give or take around 5.2%.
关于投资部分，可以说一切运转良好。虽然也有挑战，但我们对投资组合的管理和布局都非常满意。Rich提到我们投资组合的久期已上升至2.7年，并持续保持AA-的优质评级。这里有个重要结论：我们在承保端和投资端都看到了增长潜力和收益提升空间。目前我们美国本土投资组合的账面收益率约为4.7%，而到期资产的利率低于此水平，所以这会带来一定的收益提升。此外，我们新投资的资产收益率大约在5.2%左右。
You got a $30 billion investment portfolio, call it $27 billion or so is interest sensitive/fixed income, cash, et cetera. So if you take, call it 50 plus basis points and you apply that to $27 billion, that gives you a sense of where the earnings power is going. It's certainly possible that at some point, you could see the interest rates at the shorter end of the curve come down, but from our perspective, the intermediate and longer-term end, we don't see that backing off if anything, it could tick up from here.
我们目前总投资组合大约是300亿美元，其中约270亿美元为利率敏感型资产（如固定收益、现金等）。如果以50个基点的增量收益来计算，套用到这270亿美元上，就能大致感受到我们未来的收益提升空间。虽然短期利率未来可能下降，但从我们角度看，中长期利率可能不会下降，甚至还有上行的空间。
80岁老人。
So long story short, the business had a very good quarter to say the least, flirting with a 20% return in an environment such as this where we saw exceptional cat activity, I think is a very strong outcome. What is, in my opinion, even more encouraging is the rate adequacy that we continue to maintain while growing the business and in addition to that, what we've been able to do with the investment portfolio. So as rosy as the picture is here and it's not that there aren't headwinds and challenges, I think it's pretty evident that not only did we have a good quarter, but the balance of '25 is looking very encouraging and the foundation that we're beginning to pour for '26 appears to be quite solid as well.
总而言之，我们在这个季度的表现非常出色，尽管灾损异常严重，我们仍实现了接近20%的收益率，这非常令人满意。在我看来，更值得鼓舞的是，我们在实现业务增长的同时，依旧保持了足够的费率水平，以及我们在投资组合上取得的成果。虽然挑战依然存在，但总体来说，我们不仅迎来了一个好季度，而且2025年剩余时间也非常值得期待，我们为2026年打下的基础也显得相当扎实。
So why don't -- did you guys have anything else you want to add at this time? Okay. Then, Christa, why don't we take a pause there and we're very pleased to open it up to any Q&A that folks would like to have.
那么——你们还有什么想补充的吗？好的，那Christa，我们就先到这里，现在很高兴进入问答环节，欢迎大家提问。
Question-and-Answer Session
问答环节
Operator
主持人
[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Andrew Kligerman with TD Securities. Please go ahead.
【操作指引省略】第一位提问者是TD证券的Andrew Kligerman，请提问。
Andrew Kligerman
安德鲁·克利格曼
Close enough. Hey, good evening. I was particularly interested in the short tail lines, up 13%, Rob. What areas did you get excited about? Because as I'm thinking about the property subset and you called out rates being up 8.3% ex property, meaning like…
差不多没错。你好，晚上好，Rob。我特别注意到短尾险种增长了13%。你们是在哪些领域看到了机会？因为我看到你提到除了财产险以外，费率上涨了8.3%。所以你是指……
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Excuse me, Andrew, I beg your pardon, it's 8.3% ex comp. I'm sorry if I missed that. So 8.3% excluding workers' comp.
不好意思，Andrew，我要更正一下，是8.3%的增长是剔除工伤险之后的数据，不是财产险。对刚才表达不清我表示抱歉，是不含工伤险。
Andrew Kligerman
安德鲁·克利格曼
Thank you for that. Okay.
谢谢澄清，明白了。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
And as far as the growth goes, we're seeing -- we're continuing to see opportunity on the property lines. And in addition to that, we are seeing opportunity in the A&H space as well. And those are probably the big drivers as far as the short-tail.
就增长而言，我们在财产险方面持续看到机会。此外，在意外与健康险（A&H）领域也有不错的机会。这两个板块大概就是短尾险种增长的主要驱动。
Andrew Kligerman
安德鲁·克利格曼
I see. A&H and property. And within the property component, I mean, I guess property pricing is -- there's so many sublines. But I'm hearing kind of down mid-single-digit. Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on that? Like, what property lines do you like? And what are you seeing in rate in property?
明白了，是A&H和财产险。那么就财产险部分而言，我知道这下面有很多子类目。据我了解，某些子类的定价有中个位数的下行。你能详细讲讲吗？你们偏好哪些财产险子类？现在在财产险定价方面的趋势是怎样的？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
So as far as the insurance market space with regards to property and obviously, it's a pretty broad space, we continue to see opportunity to push rate at a pretty healthy pace on the risk front. On the cat front, certainly, there's a bit more competition, particularly coming out of the likes of Lloyd's both directly as well as through binding authorities that they seem to, for some reason, be empowering.
财产险是个范围很广的市场。在非灾损风险这方面，我们仍然看到有相当不错的提价空间。在灾损方面，竞争确实激烈了一些，尤其是来自劳合社（Lloyd's），无论是直接还是通过他们授权的绑定代理机构，后者似乎现在被给予了相当多的放权。
In addition to that, Berkley One, our private client high net worth personal lines business continues to be able to demonstrate their considerable value proposition to the marketplace and grow their footprint while simultaneously taking very healthy rate. And then lastly, our A&H business, which has a rich history of performing at a very high level, continues to be able to capitalize on market conditions.
此外，我们的高净值个人业务品牌 Berkley One 继续展现其卓越的市场价值定位，不仅扩大了客户覆盖，还能维持不错的费率水平。最后，在意外与健康险（A&H）方面，我们的业务一直有很好的历史表现，目前也能很好地利用当前的市场机会。
Andrew Kligerman
安德鲁·克利格曼
Got it. And in the reinsurance segment, I mean, again, you put up another fabulous combined ratio. I guess you did an 85.4 and that's even with 10.9 points of cat, should we be thinking about that as a stable kind of run rate for reinsurance, I mean?
明白了。那么在再保险板块，你们又交出了一份非常亮眼的合并赔付率成绩单。我看到你们是85.4%，而且还包含了10.9个百分点的灾损。那我们是否可以将这个视为再保险业务的一个稳定水平？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Well, I don't -- I think that we are very pleased with the performance of the business and how our colleagues have very effectively positioned it. I don't think any of us know what tomorrow will bring with certainty. That having been said, I think the portfolio and how it has been created and put together has put us on very firm ground both where we are today and how we're positioned to capitalize tomorrow. So, I think that we again remain very encouraged with that business and how it's positioned.
嗯，我不会做绝对预测——不过我们确实对该业务的表现感到非常满意，也非常认可同事们在这一块的布局策略。当然，没人能百分百预测明天会发生什么。但就目前来看，我们的再保险投资组合已经被构建得相当稳固，不仅应对当前市场没问题，也为未来抓住机会打好了基础。所以我们依然对这个板块的表现和布局非常有信心。
Andrew Kligerman
安德鲁·克利格曼
Awesome. Thank you.
太好了，谢谢你。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Thanks for the questions. Have a good afternoon.
感谢你的提问，祝你下午愉快。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of Elyse Greenspan with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是来自富国银行的Elyse Greenspan，请提问。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Hi, Elyse, good afternoon.
你好，Elyse，下午好。
Elyse Greenspan
伊丽丝·格林斯潘
Hi, thanks. My first question, I know I think in the prepared remarks, you guys said, you pointed out the $1 million of development in the quarter. And I think said it seems like nothing to call out in the segments. Would you be willing to give us just if it's immaterial numbers, just how much reserves in the quarter moved in both insurance and reinsurance?
你好，谢谢。我第一个问题是——在你们的开场陈述中提到，本季度准备金释放为100万美元左右，而且你们也提到各业务板块里并没有特别值得说明的变化。那你们能否进一步披露保险和再保险两个板块中，准备金的具体变动金额，哪怕是非重大水平？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Yeah. Richard, do you, I don't have it. Rich, do you have each segment because it was -- again, I think people look at and they combine and they kind of grasp their head, but we got a lot of moving pieces that come out to this and the loss. So what were the reasons?
好的。Richard，我这边没有具体数据。Rich，你是否有每个板块的数据？因为我觉得大家看总数时可能会有点摸不着头脑，毕竟这里面涉及很多细节因素。能否解释一下这些变化的原因？
Rich Baio
里奇·拜奥
So, for the Insurance segment, it was $11 million unfavorable prior year development. And in the Reinsurance & Monoline Excess, it was favorable by $12 million.
保险业务板块方面，去年准备金发展带来1,100万美元的不利影响。而在再保险与单一责任险板块，则带来了1,200万美元的有利影响。
Elyse Greenspan
伊丽丝·格林斯潘
Thanks. And then my second question was on the underlying loss ratio. I think you guys said mix, right, in the prior question, right, hit on reinsurance, which had a strong improvement in the quarter. We did see some year-over-year deterioration in insurance in the Q1. Can you just -- I'm assuming maybe mix was also attributed to that segment. Can you just walk us through what was going on within the underlying loss ratio in insurance in the Q1?
谢谢。第二个问题关于基础赔付率。在前一个问题中，你们提到业务组合是影响因素，对吧？尤其是在再保险板块，本季度表现非常好。但我们也注意到保险板块在第一季度的基础赔付率同比有所恶化。我的猜测是这也跟业务组合有关。能否详细讲讲保险板块Q1中基础赔付率变动的具体情况？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Go ahead, Rich.
Rich，你来说。
Rich Baio
里奇·拜奥
So as you pointed out, Elyse, yes, it is business mix. Obviously, one of the elements that plays into that is also our outward reinsurance purchasing that we do and you might recall, we purchase reinsurance both at the group level, but we also purchase it at the operating unit level and we've got 58 plus operating units across the group. So theoretically, if some businesses are growing, others are shrinking, perhaps the level of reinsurance plays into that because of the impact on the ceding commissions on the quota share arrangements, et cetera. So that's really in large part what drives that 30-basis point swing from the prior quarter.
正如你指出的，Elyse，是的，这确实主要由业务组合结构所致。显而易见的另一个因素是我们的分出再保险安排。你或许还记得，我们既在集团层面购买再保，也在具体业务单元层面操作——我们全集团有超过58个运营单位。所以理论上，如果某些业务增长、而其他业务收缩，那么再保险的使用比例就会不同，从而影响比例分保下的分出佣金等财务项目。这些合在一起，基本上就是本季度赔付率相比上季度上升30个基点的主要原因。
这个回答没有清晰的目标。
Elyse Greenspan
伊丽丝·格林斯潘
Thanks. And then my last one, obviously, you guys recently announced that Mitsui Sumitomo was going to take, right, the 15% stake in the company. I know in the presentation that was put out, it pointed to them starting in May. I'm not sure if this is a question for you or them, but is there an update on the regulatory process? And is that May timeframe still intact?
谢谢。最后一个问题是关于你们最近宣布的消息：三井住友保险将入股你们15%的股份。在发布的材料中指出，相关交易预计在5月启动。我不确定这个问题应该问你们还是他们，但请问监管审批进程是否有更新？5月份的时间表是否依然有效？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
So they are going through the process that they need to go through and we try to be helpful as we would with any shareholder. But I think as you pointed out, Elyse, it's more of a question for them than for us. We are not in the all of the details and won't be in the details because we are not going to be precluded from being able to repurchase stock in the ordinary course as we have in the past.
他们正在进行他们需要完成的审批流程，我们当然也会像对待其他股东一样提供力所能及的协助。但正如你说的，Elyse，这个问题其实更适合去问他们，而不是我们。我们并不会参与所有细节，也不会因此影响我们未来在正常情况下进行股份回购的能力，我们仍将照常推进。
Elyse Greenspan
伊丽丝·格林斯潘
Got it. Thank you.
明白了，谢谢你。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of Rob Cox with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是高盛的Rob Cox，请提问。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Hi, Rob, good afternoon.
你好，Rob，下午好。
Rob Cox
罗布·考克斯
Hi, good afternoon. Hey, I wanted to zone back in on the tariffs impact. I know you guys are still assessing, but maybe specifically on the property lines of business and the high net worth homeowners, how are you thinking about what the impact of tariffs might be?
你好，下午好。我想再聚焦一下你们之前提到的“关税影响”问题。我知道你们还在评估当中，但能否具体谈谈财产险，特别是高净值家庭房主险这块，你们怎么看关税可能产生的影响？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Well, as you'd expect, Rob, we're particularly focused on the shorter tail lines, both auto, particularly around the physical damage as well as property. But I think it would be a mistake for one to discount other lines as well. So for example, workers' compensation and what the impact could be around pharma, a lot of drugs are manufactured outside of the United States.
如你所料，Rob，我们确实特别关注短尾险种，包括车险（尤其是物理损失险）和财产险。但我认为，如果因此忽视其他险种，那也是不妥的。比如工伤险，就有可能受到医药供应链的影响——毕竟很多药品是在美国境外生产的。
So it's something that we're very focused on. The whole tariff situation, again, as mentioned earlier and I know you and others appreciate is very fluid. We are doing our best to try and read the tea leaves and we are actively doing a variety of different analyses to try and figure out what this means for loss picks and how that would instruct rate need.
所以这个问题是我们当前高度关注的。正如我之前提到的，我知道你和其他人一样也明白，当前的关税形势非常不确定。我们正尽力研判未来走势，并积极开展各种分析，试图判断这对损失预估意味着什么，以及它将如何影响我们的费率需求。
So yes, does it have an impact on property? Yeah. Potentially, it would. Would that include personal lines and homeowners? Without a doubt. And certainly another obvious one is auto physical damage. But while those may be the two more significant spots, I would encourage folks not to underestimate or completely ignore other product lines as well.
所以，关税是否会影响财产险？是的，很可能会。这是否包括个人险和房主险？毫无疑问是的。另一个显而易见的受影响领域就是车险中的物理损失部分。但虽然这两个领域影响较大，我还是建议大家不要低估或忽视其他险种可能受影响的程度。
Rob Cox
罗布·考克斯
Got it. Thank you. That's very helpful. And then maybe just as a follow-up on the pricing, it sounds like it accelerated 60 basis points or so in the quarter. What are you seeing in terms of outliers by line of business? Is that any different from recent quarters? And what kind of drove the acceleration?
明白了，谢谢，信息非常有帮助。再追问一下关于费率的问题：听起来你们这个季度的提价幅度加快了，大约提升了60个基点。你们是否看到某些险种表现比较突出？和前几个季度比有什么不同吗？提价加速的原因是什么？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Yeah. I think it's pretty consistent with what we've seen in the past and some product lines that we've talked about in the past, like auto liability as an example, where we are very focused on loss cost trends, social inflation and doing what we need to do to keep up with that and other liability lines as well.
我们认为这与之前的趋势基本一致。就像我们之前反复提到的，像汽车责任险这一类产品，我们非常关注损失成本的变化趋势、社会通胀的影响，并采取必要措施以跟上这些变化。其他责任险种也类似。
But as we've called out in the past, auto liability and particularly umbrella and how the auto liability feeds the umbrella exposure are areas that we continue to push pretty hard on.
就像我们过去所强调的，我们在汽车责任险，尤其是综合责任险（umbrella liability）方面，持续发力，因为汽车险的赔付趋势会直接影响到后者的风险敞口。
But I also would suggest that I wouldn't get overly preoccupied with 60 basis points one way or the other. I would suggest in my mind, the takeaway is that the company remains very focused on rate adequacy and keeping up with trend. And I think that is evidenced both in what we've delivered this quarter as well as what we've delivered for the past many quarters.
但我也建议不要过于关注这60个基点的涨跌。在我看来，更重要的信息是，公司始终高度重视费率的合理性，并努力跟上市场趋势。这不仅体现在我们本季度的表现中，也体现在过去多个季度的持续执行中。
Rob Cox
罗布·考克斯
Thanks a lot.
非常感谢。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of Mike Zaremski with BMO. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是来自BMO的Mike Zaremski，请提问。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Hey, Mike, good afternoon.
你好，Mike，下午好。
Mike Zaremski
麦克·扎雷姆斯基
Hey, good afternoon. I guess, going back to the macro and pushing that with the tariffs, there's lots of uncertainty. But maybe curious if you can kind of talk high-level about your view on work comp profitability under a recession scenario? I know you just kind of typically said keeping an eye on tariffs' impact on pharma costs. But I'm, I guess, curious more specifically, as higher than historical wage inflation levels, has that been a material tailwind in recent years that we should be thinking about to under a recession scenario or just any kind of high-level thoughts given that this line-of-business continues to be just highly profitable and we're getting a lot of recession questions? Thanks.
好的，下午好。我想再回到宏观层面，结合当前的关税不确定性——你们之前提到会关注关税对药品成本的影响。但我更具体想问的是：在经济衰退情景下，你们如何看待工伤险的盈利能力？特别是过去几年工资通胀一直高于历史水平，这对你们是否构成了实质性的利好？在经济下行时我们该如何思考这个因素？毕竟工伤险仍是一个高度盈利的业务线，而且我们收到不少投资者在问相关问题。谢谢。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
So I think the answer is yes. I think coming out of COVID, when we saw significant wage inflation that comfortably outpaced much of the medical inflation equation, that created a bit more tailwind or wiggle room for the industry. Obviously, that can cut both ways. And medical costs are a little bit of more than 50% of every claims dollar. So one should not, in our opinion, underestimate the significance around that.
我认为答案是“是的”。疫情之后，我们确实看到工资通胀明显跑赢了医疗通胀，这确实为整个行业带来了一些顺风或缓冲空间。当然，这也可能是“双刃剑”。因为在每一美元的理赔成本中，医疗费用占比超过50%。所以我们认为，绝不能低估这一因素的重要性。
So long story short, to your point, Mike, I think it does cut both ways and one will need to see how it unfolds. But -- again as far as the growth that we're seeing in comp, it partly has been to due to wage inflation, but even more so as we flagged earlier today as well as I think in the prior call, we see opportunity in some of the comp market that is less commoditized and is more specialty in nature. So yeah, I think to get to your specific question, I think wage inflation was a plus, but that can cut both ways and to your point, I think people need to be very conscious of that.
所以简单说，Mike，你提到的问题确实两面性很强，后续还要看事态怎么演变。就我们所看到的工伤险增长而言，部分来自工资通胀，但更大部分其实来自我们之前也提过的——一些较少被商品化、更加专业化的工伤险细分市场机会。因此，针对你提出的核心问题，我认为工资通胀确实带来了积极影响，但它的效果并非单向，而且大家确实需要对此保持清醒。
Mike Zaremski
麦克·扎雷姆斯基
Okay. That's very helpful. Maybe switching gears a bit to lawsuit/social inflation. If – thinking, kind of looking at Berkley's debt disclosure and just the industry as well, other liability occurrence continues to be, I know you said no analogies, but, right, kind of pig through the python. Do you feel pricing levels for other liability occurrence? I know that it works its way through different lines, but do you feel that pricing is at kind of a level where directionally Berkley can start playing offense or do we really need to see a -- continue to see a material increase in pricing there to really feel like the coast is clear.
明白了，信息非常有用。换个话题——谈谈诉讼风险/社会通胀问题。你们在债务披露中提到“其他责任事故险”仍处在高风险期，我知道你说过不想打比方，但这就像蛇吞猪一样漫长。你觉得现在其他责任险的定价水平是否已经足以让Berkley采取主动？还是说我们还需要看到该类业务明显提价，才可以真正判断风险已经释放、可以放心推进？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
I think that we've done a pretty good job keeping up with it. And the question really is how the balance of the market will behave and we are encouraged by what we saw quite frankly, more recently with additional discipline coming into the market in certain product lines.
我认为我们在这方面应对得相当不错。关键的问题在于整个市场的其余部分将如何反应。坦率说，我们最近在部分险种上看到了一些新增的定价纪律性，这让我们感到鼓舞。
That having been said, we don't know necessarily what tomorrow will bring. So will there be an opportunity for us to accelerate the growth? We'll have to see with time, Mike. But again, one of the things and I think you're in some ways flagging it right now is how different the market is and how product lines have decoupled.
话虽如此，我们也无法预测未来是否就此明朗。所以我们是否会加速增长？这还需观察。但你现在提到的其实也非常重要——市场已经变得高度分化，各个险种间的表现已开始“脱钩”。
And one of the benefits that we as an organization are enjoying is the breadth of our offering. So there are parts of the marketplace that we participate in where we are maintaining very much of a defensive posture and there are other parts of the marketplace where we're finding opportunity to lean in.
而我们公司目前的优势在于产品线广泛。这意味着我们在某些市场板块采取的是防守姿态，而在另一些板块则能积极介入、把握机会。
250亿美元的市值，注意力不集中，缺少勇气的表现。
Other liability occurrence, we'll have to see how it unfolds. Clearly, there are many folks that have taken some bumps and bruises, particularly on the excess and umbrella. And historically, that would suggest that will lead to opportunity. And if that is the case, we look forward to participating.
关于“其他责任事故险”，我们还需继续观察其演变趋势。显然，已经有不少参与者在这方面受到了冲击，特别是在超额险和综合责任险上。而历史表明，这种受挫往往会带来市场修复与新机会。如果真的出现了这样的机会，我们当然乐于参与其中。
Mike Zaremski
麦克·扎雷姆斯基
Okay, got it. Got it. I'll sneak in just a follow-up question to Rob Cox's question and your answer about tariffs impacting more than just the auto line. I probably just need to do more homework myself, but is there -- have you been willing to quantify just directionally commercial property with tariffs under their current form potentially impact the loss ratio by like just I don't know if you have a corridor like very low single-digits?
明白了。我想再补一个问题，呼应一下你刚才对Rob Cox关于关税的回应。你提到关税影响不只是车险。我可能还要做更多功课，但你们是否愿意大致量化一下——就目前已知的关税结构而言，对商业财产险的赔付率大概可能产生多大影响？有没有一个比如低单位数百分比的范围可供参考？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
So, Mike, the answer is that the tariff discussion coming out of Washington, particularly led by the administration, I think, is still a bit of a moving target. So for us to put a number down right now, that's -- I'm hoping that that's something we can do, give or take 90 days from now for you and others.
Mike，这个问题的答案是：当前华盛顿方面，尤其是白宫主导的关税政策讨论仍在变化中。因此现在给出一个具体数字还为时过早。我希望大概90天之后，我们可以为你和其他人提供更明确的估算。
But right now, I think it would be premature. My message to you is that we are very focused on it and making sure that we will take the appropriate action from a loss ratio as well as what that -- what those implications are from a pricing perspective as well.
但现阶段给出区间并不合适。我想传达的核心信息是：我们对这个问题非常关注，并确保在赔付率管理和定价策略层面都能做出相应调整。
The short answer is if it comes to be as it's been advertised, yeah, it's going to drive up loss costs. Do I have a number for you? No, not that would be particularly valuable to you or valuable to us shared with anyone at this moment.
简短地说，如果未来落实的关税真如当前讨论所描述的那样，那确实会推高损失成本。至于具体数字？现在还没有一个值得我们对外分享、对你有实际参考价值的区间。
Mike Zaremski
麦克·扎雷姆斯基
Understood. Thank you.
明白了，谢谢。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of Josh Shanker with Bank of America. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是来自美国银行的Josh Shanker，请提问。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Hi, Josh.
你好，Josh。
Josh Shanker
乔什·尚克
Good evening, everyone. How are you all doing?
大家晚上好，最近都怎么样？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
We're doing great. How are you?
一切都很好，你呢？
Josh Shanker
乔什·尚克
Good, good. Thank you. I wanted to dig into some of the comments. You mentioned in your prepared remarks that you have to concentrate on specialty workers comp to understand why Berkley grew in the quarter in a otherwise tepid comp environment. But you always have a specialty as what you're writing. Is there -- were there a few unique opportunities that you saw in 1Q25? And should we expect that workers' comp is going to be a unique area that Berkley is able to grow for the next few quarters while the industry struggles?
很好，谢谢你。我想深入探讨你在开场白中提到的一点。你提到要理解Berkley在整体疲软的工伤险市场中实现增长，需要关注“特种工伤险”板块。但你们本来就是专注于特种业务。那请问2025年第一季度是否出现了几项特别的增长机会？我们是否应该预期，在整个行业陷入困境的情况下，Berkley还能在未来几个季度继续在工伤险上实现差异化增长？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
So I think maybe -- thanks for flagging that, Josh. And let me try and do a better job articulating the thought than I did. You're absolutely right that by and large, all we do is specialty in nature. But some of what we do that is specialty in nature, oftentimes by the standard market is mistakenly not recognized as specialty and that tends to be smaller and mid-sized accounts. So as they are mistakenly coming into that marketplace, that creates more competition and we have no qualms letting that part of the portfolio shrink.
谢谢你指出这个问题，Josh。让我试着更清楚地表达我的意思。你说得没错，我们整体上确实专注于特种险种。但我们所做的一些“特种业务”，往往并不被标准市场识别为“特种”，这通常是一些中小客户。当标准市场误判后进入这些领域时，竞争加剧，我们对于让这些业务板块自然缩减是没有任何顾虑的。
That having been said, what I was attempting to flag was there is a part of the comp market which is perhaps even more specialized. And what I mean by that it's even higher hazard in nature, where the standard market has a greater recognition for the complexity and is less inclined to try and come into that marketplace and cut rates and try and leverage their multi-line offering.
不过我真正想强调的是，有一部分工伤险市场是“更加专业化”的。这类业务通常风险更高、复杂度更高，而标准市场对这类风险的识别是比较清晰的，因此它们不会贸然进入这类市场，也不会通过多险种打包销售来抢占这块业务。
So, apologies if I muddied the waters, but hopefully that adds a bit of clarity.
如果我之前表达得不够清楚，还请见谅，但我希望这次解释能让你更明白我们所说的“特种工伤险”是什么。
Josh Shanker
乔什·尚克
And is there anything we can use by looking at this number to think about the remainder of the year?
那么我们是否可以根据这些数据来预测今年剩下时间的走势？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Well, Josh, both you and I, along with others know that nobody knows exactly what tomorrow will bring. If market conditions in that part of the comp market continue as they have been more recently, then we will look forward to continuing to lean into that opportunity. If that opportunity or window of opportunity were to close, then you will see us do what you would expect us to do and we will have no qualms letting the business move in a different direction or away from us.
Josh，我想你我都明白，没有人能真正预测明天会发生什么。如果我们所说的这部分工伤险市场维持目前的状态，我们当然会继续深入挖掘机会。但如果这个窗口关闭了，我们也会毫不犹豫地调整方向，哪怕是放弃这部分业务。我们该进则进、该退则退。
Josh Shanker
乔什·尚克
So if I could ask the same question, but about a different market, about our commercial auto liability, it's been a tough market for a while, but this is the first time that I've really seen Berkley's premium volume really fade compared to the prior quarters. Has something changed in the last three months?
那我能否用同样的问题问另一个板块？比如商业车险责任险。这一直是个艰难的市场，但这是我第一次看到Berkley在这一块的保费收入与前几个季度相比明显下滑。过去三个月里发生了什么变化吗？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
I think what it is, it's just our commitment to rate accuracy and the rest of the marketplace has been a bit sluggish, particularly earlier in Q1. I would tell you more recently, perhaps there's early signs of a green shoot coming through. Hard to know whether that is green grass or a weed, but we remain hopeful.
我认为，这是因为我们坚持保持费率的准确性，而市场上的其他参与者在第一季度早期反应较慢。最近我们看到了一些“新芽”的迹象——当然，现在还很难说那是绿草还是杂草——但我们保持谨慎乐观。
Josh Shanker
乔什·尚克
Okay. And if I can sneak one other in, Andrew mentioned about the cats. Notably, Berkley has no exposure to California homeowners, which they avoided -- didn't avoid completely, obviously, being avoided the line of business that was most exposed to the biggest cat in the quarter. Yet this was quite a big quarter four catastrophe losses for Berkley. Has the premium footprint changed as you've moved into shorter tail lines and expose yourself more to property such that we should revise our priors and how we think Berkley's cat loss exposure evolves relative to the market more broadly?
好，我再插入一个问题。Andrew刚才提到灾损（cat）。值得注意的是，Berkley并没有参与加州房主险市场——这让你们在本季度最大的一起灾损中避开了最暴露的业务板块，虽然并非完全规避。然而，你们这一季仍录得较大的灾损损失。是不是因为你们加大了对短尾险的参与，特别是财产险，从而扩大了暴露？我们是否应该重新评估Berkley相对于整体市场在灾损方面的风险敞口？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Josh. So the way I would answer that is, no, not really. First off, as far as the homeowners piece, I want to make sure there's no misunderstanding. It wasn't that Berkley One didn't get to expanding to California. A conscious and deliberate decision was made not to enter California.
Josh，我的回答是“不，不完全是”。首先谈到房主险，我想澄清一点，不是说Berkley One还没来得及进军加州，而是我们“明确且有意识地”决定不进入加州市场。
As far as the balance of the loss as it relates to that, it has to do with our commercial lines book. And we have felt as though the property market, as we've talked about in the past, is reasonably well priced and that's why we were prepared to take on a bit more exposure.
至于灾损的其余部分，主要来自我们的商业险组合。正如我们过去所说，我们认为财产险目前的定价总体上还是合理的，因此我们才愿意在这方面适度增加敞口。
I think that view was validated because if you look at the result we delivered, even with having opportunistically modestly expanded our footprint or participation in the property space, we still delivered a 19-plus-percent return.
我认为这一判断已经被验证。即使我们在财产险上“适度机会性地”扩展了参与度，我们依然实现了19%以上的季度收益率。
So long story short, do I think you should come away from this feeling like there's been a sea change in our approach to property and cat-exposed property? No, I think that would be a mistake. Do I -- would I hope that you'll continue to recognize that we are an organization that is opportunistic, and when we see things that are well-priced, we're willing to take on a bit more exposure? Yes, I would hope that that would be the takeaway.
所以，总结来说：我并不认为你应该认为我们在财产险和灾损暴露财产险的策略上发生了根本性的变化——那会是误解。但我确实希望你认识到，我们是一家“机会主义型”的公司，当看到某个市场定价合理时，我们愿意在那个方向上适度加码。
PGR早在几十年前就放弃了“机会主义”的做法。
But no, there is not a sea-change in our appetite for cat, if you will. And that's why arguably a $40 billion to $50 billion event relative to our size, I think by any measure, we are underweighted as far as our cat loss.
但如果你说我们在灾损暴露的偏好上出现了“重大转向”，那是没有的。要知道，这次灾损事件是400亿到500亿美元级别的，而就我们的体量而言，我们的灾损损失仍是明显“低配”的，这点无论怎么衡量都成立。
Josh Shanker
乔什·尚克
Well, thank you for all the answers. Appreciate it.
好的，非常感谢你们的详细回答。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Thanks for calling in.
谢谢你拨打电话参与本次会议。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of David Motemaden with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是Evercore ISI的David Motemaden，请提问。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Hi, David, good afternoon.
你好，David，下午好。
David Motemaden
大卫·莫特马登
Hey, good afternoon, Rob. I had just a follow-up question on the reserve development within the insurance segment, the $11 million. I was hoping to get a little bit more detail in terms of some of the moving pieces there.
你好，Rob。关于保险业务板块中那笔1,100万美元的准备金变动，我想进一步了解一下其中的组成部分，是否可以提供更详细的信息？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
I don't have that in front of me. If you'd like, maybe you could give Karen or Rich a call tomorrow and we can unpack it. I think we have about $17 billion of reserves. So I didn't view $11 million as the be-all and end-all, but we're happy to do our best to unpack that for you.
我现在手边没有具体的数据。如果你愿意，明天可以联系Karen或Rich，他们可以为你详细拆解一下。从整体来看，我们的准备金大约有170亿美元，所以这1,100万美元并不是特别关键的数字，但我们很乐意为你进一步解释。
David Motemaden
大卫·莫特马登
Great. Thanks. And then I was -- I know not a big line for you guys either, but the property reinsurance growth was a pretty nice tailwind this quarter. You ticked up quite a bit. I guess. How should we think about how sustainable growth is in that market within the property cat market?
好的，谢谢。另外我注意到，虽然这不是你们最大的业务板块，但这一季度财产再保险增长非常亮眼，带来了不错的推动力。你们的增长幅度不小。请问对于财产再保，特别是灾损再保市场，这样的增长具有持续性吗？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
I think it depends on what tomorrow holds. Look, when the day is all done, the property market, particularly as it relates to reinsurance, was not as rosy at this 1/1 as it was a year earlier, but we still think that it's well-priced. But as we've demonstrated in the past, whether it's property or any product line, if that opportunity shifts and is less attractive, we're very happy to let it go.
我认为这取决于未来的市场情况。坦白说，尽管今年1月1日的财产再保市场不如去年同期那么“美好”，但我们仍认为当前的市场定价是合理的。正如我们过去所展示的，无论是财产险还是其他险种，如果某项业务的吸引力降低，我们会毫不犹豫地退出。
So what will tomorrow bring? I don't know. But right now, we think that there's still a reasonable risk-adjusted return to be had. That having been said, we all saw a fair amount of erosion at 1/1. So I don't know if there's another year or not in the tank.
至于未来会怎样，我无法预测。但就目前来看，我们认为仍有不错的风险调整后回报。话虽如此，我们也都看到今年1月1日的续约中有不少条件被削弱。所以是否还有一年可抓的机会，现在很难说。
David Motemaden
大卫·莫特马登
Got it. Thanks. And then maybe just lastly, so there's been some efforts at tort reform in Georgia. I know you guys are a decent-sized player in Georgia within GL and commercial auto. I guess, just curious on your thoughts in terms of what that does to sort of address some of the social inflation issues that have been problematic there.
明白了，谢谢。最后一个问题，关于佐治亚州的侵权改革。你们在当地的一般责任险（GL）和商业车险市场都有不错的占比。你们如何看待这项改革？它是否能在一定程度上缓解那里的社会通胀问题？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
I guess the short answer is we're pleased that it's getting the attention. Not sure if it's enough, but it's a step in the right direction.
简短地说，我们很高兴这个问题开始受到关注。至于改革力度是否足够，我们尚不确定，但这至少是朝着正确方向迈出的一步。
David Motemaden
大卫·莫特马登
Great. Thank you.
好的，谢谢你。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of Mark Hughes with Truist Securities. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是来自Truist证券的Mark Hughes，请提问。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Hello, Mark, good afternoon and thank you.
你好，Mark，下午好，谢谢你的提问。
Mark Hughes
马克·休斯
Yeah, thanks. Thank you, Rob. How are you?
谢谢你，Rob。你最近怎么样？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
I’m doing fine. Thanks.
很好，谢谢。
Mark Hughes
马克·休斯
Anything to say on admitted versus E&S and the mix-shift? It seems like it's continued in E&S. How did you see that play out this quarter and any commentary on submission growth would be great.
你能否谈谈标准市场（Admitted）和E&S市场之间的变化？看起来E&S市场仍在持续扩张。本季度你们看到这一趋势如何演变？如果能顺便讲讲投保申请量的变化，那就更好了。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
So, using a pretty broad brush, we are pretty pleased with the continued flow in the E&S market, ever increasing, particularly around some of the liability lines, casualty in particular, and for that matter, excess and umbrella.
从整体来看，我们对E&S市场的持续扩张感到相当满意，尤其是在责任险类业务中，比如意外险、超额责任险和综合责任险（umbrella）方面增长非常明显。
As far as the property piece goes, there's still opportunity there, but probably a bit less than there was yesterday. January was a little bit more challenging, but we were very pleased to see how the balance of the quarter unfolded and found it to be quite encouraging.
至于财产险方面，机会仍然存在，但可能比以前少了一些。1月份确实相对更具挑战，但本季度余下时间的发展让我们感到非常鼓舞。
Mark Hughes
马克·休斯
Thank you for that. And then, Rich, on the reinsurance purchasing that you talked about influencing the mix which influenced the current accident year. Is that an ongoing phenomenon, do you think? Or is that some timing about the purchasing of that reinsurance that might have influenced Q1 more than others?
谢谢你的解读。接下来问Rich一个问题——你之前提到再保险采购对业务结构产生了影响，从而影响了本事故年度的数据。请问这是一个持续性的现象吗？还是说这只是Q1某种采购时点造成的临时性影响？
Rich Baio
里奇·拜奥
I don't think it has to do with the timing of the purchasing. It really is just driven by each of those operations, whether they're growing or shrinking or moving in or out of particular businesses and what the contribution is to the overall.
我认为这和再保险采购的时点无关，更多是由各运营单位自身的业务变化决定的——比如它们是否在增长、收缩，或者退出某些业务，以及它们对整体的贡献度。
So if you have a business as an example that we quota-share some of that out to third-party reinsurers and you don't have as much net premiums written contributing to the overall total net premiums written, it will obviously have an impact one way or the other.
举个例子，如果某个业务板块采用比例再保（quota share），并且该业务净保费相对较低，那它在整体净保费中的占比就会下降，从而带来一定影响。
So no. I think if you look at our session rate, we kind of hover in that high 14% to low 15% rate. So I think that our recession rate is pretty consistent from period to period. It's really just the composition across the 58-plus operating units.
所以不是短期行为。从数据来看，我们的分出率基本维持在14%到15%之间的高位，是比较稳定的。真正造成影响的，是我们超过58个运营单位之间的业务组合变化。
Mark Hughes
马克·休斯
Very good. Thank you.
非常清楚，谢谢你。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of Andrew Anderson with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是来自杰富瑞的Andrew Anderson，请提问。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Hi, Andrew, good afternoon.
你好，Andrew，下午好。
Andrew Anderson
安德鲁·安德森
Hey, good afternoon. Just on casualty reinsurance, you had mentioned the professional liability component. I was just hoping you could touch on kind of the rate and discipline that you're seeing in the market and expectations or thoughts of that maybe improving as we go through the year?
你好，下午好。关于意外险再保，你们刚才提到了其中的职业责任险部分。我想了解一下目前你们在市场中看到的费率和承保纪律是怎样的？你们是否预计这方面会在今年余下时间有所改善？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
So the punchline is a lot of it has to do with -- a fair amount of it has to do with D&O. A fair amount of it has to do with cyber and transactional as well. And to make a long story short, it's not that we're writing the same number of treaties and the rates just getting cut or the underlying is collecting less premium. It's our colleagues drawing a line in the sand and saying this treaty does not make any sense to us any longer. We are not going to do it given the economics, which we very much applaud. Thank you, Kevin.
说到底，很多都与D&O（董事与高管责任险）有关，也涉及到网络险（Cyber）和交易责任险（Transactional Liability）。简单说，我们并不是在维持同样的再保合约数量、然后遭遇费率下调或基础险种保费缩水的问题。实际情况是——我们的同事果断划清界限，明确表示：“这个合约在当前经济条件下对我们不再合理，我们不再参与。”对此我们非常支持，也为他们的判断力点赞。谢谢你，Kevin（注：可能是团队中相关负责人）。
Andrew Anderson
安德鲁·安德森
Got it. So maybe still some non-renewals as we go throughout the year on that line, perhaps?
明白了。那这条业务线今年剩下时间可能还会出现一些不续保的情况，对吗？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Obviously, 1/1 is a big date, but we'll have to see how it unfolds. But again, of course, the stuff -- it comes through throughout the year.
显然，1月1日是个重要的续约节点，但具体情况还要继续观察。不过可以确定的是，这类再保合约在全年都会陆续续签或终止，不仅限于年初。
Andrew Anderson
安德鲁·安德森
Okay. And then just on specialty workers' comp, is the rate there kind of similar to traditional workers' comp or what are you seeing in that market?
好的。再问一下关于特种工伤险（specialty workers’ comp），它的费率是否类似于传统工伤险？你们在这个市场上看到的是什么情况？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
It's a healthier market where we find the rates are higher, we think the rate adequacy is more appropriate.
这是一个更健康的市场，我们发现其费率更高，且我们认为定价的合理性也更好。
Andrew Anderson
安德鲁·安德森
Thank you.
谢谢。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of Brian Meredith with UBS. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是来自瑞银的Brian Meredith，请提问。
Brian Meredith
布莱恩·梅雷迪思
Yeah, thanks. Hey, how are you? Two quick ones here for you. First one, just on the property reinsurance again, were there any kind of reinstatement premiums or anything in there that may have kind of elevated the growth on a year-over-year basis, just given the cat losses?
谢谢。你们好，我这边有两个简短的问题。第一个是关于财产再保险的——考虑到这季度的灾损，请问你们是否有收到任何复效保费（reinstatement premiums）或类似项目，导致同比增长出现一定上浮？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Not material.
没有，影响不大。
Brian Meredith
布莱恩·梅雷迪思
Okay. Excellent. And actually, next one is for Bill. Just curious, Bill, during the 1970s, we had stagflation. Maybe give us -- tell us what that kind of means for the commercial insurance industry and kind of what it was like back then with a stagflationary environment?
好，谢谢。第二个问题是想请教Bill。在1970年代，我们经历了滞涨（stagflation）。能否请你讲讲这对商业保险行业意味着什么？当时行业在那种宏观环境下的表现如何？
Bill Berkley
比尔·伯克利
Well, first of all, that's age discrimination.
首先，我得说你这是“年龄歧视”了（笑）。
I think that stagflation was a problem. But the inflation was somewhat different. It was much more focused and you saw it wasn't quite across the board in the stagnant economy. There were a lot of different moving parts.
我认为当时的确是滞涨期，但那个时代的通胀和现在有点不同。它更有针对性，不像现在这么全面，而且当时的经济虽然停滞，但影响因素非常多样，情况也更复杂。
But I think that the industry, when that happened, went through a tough period of pricing pressures, but it wasn't a disaster by any means. I think the industry was able to move along, raising prices, and keep up with that.
但我认为，当时整个保险行业虽然面临了不小的定价压力，但远称不上“灾难”。行业总体上还是能跟上通胀的步伐，通过提价应对环境。
But there was less growth because the economy really wasn't growing. So less growth. Pricing was okay and the industry lifeblood of new companies and change was diminished. So flexible, modest-sized and larger-sized companies did well. Not a lot of new companies getting started.
当然，经济停滞意味着整体增长放缓。虽然定价还算合理，但行业的“活力”——也就是新公司的出现和业务创新——明显减少了。当时，灵活的中大型保险公司表现不错，但新创公司很少。
It was really when we were just getting into the business and you had lots of issues, including things we faced when we were just getting into the business. So in fact, just looking back at what that was, it opened the doors to really a much-improving period of time, but margins were not what they were although interest rates moved up.
那也是我们刚进入这个行业的时候，问题很多。但回头看，正是那个阶段为随后的发展打开了空间。虽然利率上升了，但利润率仍不如更正常时期那么高。
So we had improving interest rates. That was when interest rates started to move up where they had been settled at 3% to where they became settled at 6%.
当时利率确实在上升，从3%逐渐上升到6%左右，进入了一个新的利率区间。
So it was an okay time for the industry if you paid attention to risk. But overall, bigger companies did better than smaller companies and opportunities existed. So like everything, there's no broad-brush that gives you an answer. Very, very differentiated.
所以对保险行业来说，那段时期还算可以，只要你足够重视风险控制。整体而言，大公司比小公司表现更好。但同时，也确实存在不少机会。总的来说，没有一个笼统的说法能概括当时的情况，一切都非常分化、因公司而异。
Brian Meredith
布莱恩·梅雷迪思
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of Wes Carmichael with Autonomous Research. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是来自Autonomous Research的Wes Carmichael，请提问。
Wes Carmichael
韦斯·卡迈克尔
Hey, good evening. I just wanted to come back quickly to the increase in the underlying loss ratio that was driven by mix. And Rich, I heard your commentary on reinsurance and I don't think it sounds like it, but I just want to confirm, is there any mix standpoint on the expense ratio that you're seeing?
你好，晚上好。我想回到一个问题：本季度基础赔付率因业务组合而上升。Rich，你刚才提到了再保方面的影响，但我想确认一下，从业务组合角度来看，费用率是否也受到了影响？
Rich Baio
里奇·拜奥
There could be as well because as I was alluding to earlier, depending on the contribution from quota shares with ceding commissions, that could also have an impact on the expense ratio. So yes.
确实可能会受到影响，正如我之前提到的，如果某些业务采用比例再保（quota share）并涉及分出佣金（ceding commissions），这会对费用率产生影响。所以答案是肯定的，有可能。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
In this case, that was less [indiscernible] in the quarter.
但就本季度而言，这方面的影响相对较小。
Rich Baio
里奇·拜奥
Yeah. That’s right.
对，是这样的。
Wes Carmichael
韦斯·卡迈克尔
Okay. Understood. Thank you. And then just in the insurance segment, I wondered if you could just unpack growth a bit more. And Rob, you talked a bit about workers' comp for a while. So any more color on the other lines, including other liabilities that you might call out in the quarter going forward?
明白了，谢谢。接着问一下保险业务板块，能否再多拆解一下增长的来源？Rob，你之前聊了不少关于工伤险的内容，那能否补充一下其他业务线的表现，比如这季度或未来会重点关注的其他责任险种？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
I think it's a combination of just making sure we're staying on top of it with the rate and market conditions where we are seeing opportunity to grow and we are making the most of that where the opportunities are.
我认为这取决于我们是否在费率控制和市场条件方面保持主动。当我们看到增长机会时，我们会全力把握住它。
So long story short and some of the product lines, it's rate, rate, rate, all day like auto, as an example.
所以简单来说，对于某些险种，比如车险，就是“费率、费率、还是费率”——这就是全部关键。
There are other product lines where rate adequacy remains very important and market conditions are such that it's allowing us not just to grow through rate, but to grow through exposure.
还有一些险种，虽然费率充足性依然很重要，但市场环境也使我们能够不仅靠提价，还可以通过扩大承保范围来实现增长。
Wes Carmichael
韦斯·卡迈克尔
Great. Thanks so much.
非常好，谢谢你。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Operator
主持人
Your next question comes from the line of Meyer Shields with KBW. Please go ahead.
下一位提问者是来自KBW的Meyer Shields，请提问。
Meyer Shields
迈耶·希尔兹
Thanks. If I can go back to the specialty workers' compensation driving the growth, are the underwriting and claims handling tools different from the prior book of workers' compensation at Berkley?
谢谢。如果我们再谈谈你们提到的“特种工伤险”对增长的驱动作用，想问一下，与Berkley过去几年的传统工伤险业务相比，这部分在承保和理赔工具上是否有所不同？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Sorry, what was the last piece? I beg your pardon, are they different from what?
抱歉，最后一部分能再重复一下吗？你是问和什么相比是否不同？
Meyer Shields
迈耶·希尔兹
So the legacy, in other words, the workers' compensation business that you've beaten over the last few years.
我是说和你们过去几年一直经营的传统工伤险业务相比。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Well, I think the answer is that each one of the businesses is -- businesses are specialized in nature and some of the opportunity as we alluded to earlier with some of the higher hazards creating a meaningful opportunity for us and we are leaning into that.
我认为答案是肯定的。我们每一个业务单元都是专业化运作的，正如我们之前提到的，一些更高风险的领域带来了很具吸引力的机会，我们正积极把握。
And is it -- yes, it has teams of people as you know were set up, a decentralized structure with different businesses with their own focus and expertise to support that area of focus or to go hand-in-hand with that area of focus. So the answer is yes.
而且正如你所知，我们采用的是去中心化结构，每个业务单元都有自己的专属团队、专业能力和专注方向，用以支持其特定市场。因此可以说，是的，我们现在使用的承保和理赔方式是与传统业务不同的。
Meyer Shields
迈耶·希尔兹
Okay. And then completely changing topics. So in the press release, confirming Mitsui Sumitomo, their President and CEO talked about deploying their network to grow the value of their investment, which I think means Berkley. I was hoping you could flesh out what that means in terms of growth potential for Berkley?
好的。换个话题。在关于三井住友入股的新闻稿中，该公司总裁兼CEO提到他们将利用自身网络提升其投资的价值——我理解他指的是Berkley。能否请你们具体说明一下，这对Berkley未来的增长意味着什么？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
We'll have to see over time. Obviously, they are a large organization with a meaningful footprint in different parts of the world. And if there's opportunity for us to partner with them and bring some of our expertise and skills, then if that's something that makes sense for the business, that's something that we're very open to.
这还需要时间来观察。他们显然是一家大型企业，在全球多个地区都有重要布局。如果有机会让我们与他们合作，把我们的专业能力和经验带入其中，并且这对业务有利，那我们当然非常乐意参与。
Meyer Shields
迈耶·希尔兹
Okay, but that's nothing 2025.
明白，也就是说这不会是2025年内的事？
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
We'll have to see.
我们拭目以待吧。
Meyer Shields
迈耶·希尔兹
Okay. Fair enough. Thank you very much.
好，理解了。非常感谢。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Thank you.
谢谢你。
Operator
主持人
And that concludes our question-and-answer session. And I will now turn the call over to Mr. Rob Berkley for closing comments.
以上为今天的问答环节。现在请Rob Berkley先生作总结发言。
Rob Berkley
罗布·伯克利
Christa, thank you very much, and thank you all for dialing in. As suggested earlier, I think by any measure, a very solid quarter, let alone when we had a cat of this size.
谢谢你，Christa，也谢谢大家拨打进来。正如我们之前提到的——以任何标准来看，这都是一个非常稳健的季度，更别说我们还经历了这么大规模的灾损事件。
Additionally, I think it was very encouraging the top line that we were able to enjoy. And of course, that was nicely complemented by the continued benefits on the investment portfolio as well.
此外，我们在总收入上的表现也令人鼓舞，而且投资组合继续带来了良好回报，进一步增强了整体表现。
Thank you all, and we look forward to connecting with you in 90 days or so. Have a good night.
谢谢大家，我们期待在大约90天后再次与各位沟通。祝各位晚安。
Operator
主持人
This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation, and you may now disconnect.
本次电话会议到此结束。感谢您的参与，您现在可以挂断电话了。
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