2025-05-28 Visa Inc. (V) Bernstein's 41st Annual Strategic Decisions Conference (Transcript)

Visa Inc. (NYSE:V) Bernstein's 41st Annual Strategic Decisions Conference May 28, 2025 10:00 AM ET

Company Participants

Chris Suh - Chief Financial Officer

Conference Call Participants

Harshita Rawat - Bernstein

Harshita Rawat

Good morning again, everyone. I am Harshita Rawat, Bernstein's Senior Analyst covering payments, processors and IT services. And I'm delighted to be joined today by Chris Suh, Visa's CFO at Bernstein's 41st Annual Strategic Decisions Conference. Chris, thank you for joining us today.

大家早上好。我是哈希塔·拉瓦特，伯恩斯坦负责支付、处理和 IT 服务领域的高级分析师。很高兴今天在伯恩斯坦第 41 届年度战略决策大会上，与 Visa 首席财务官 Chris Suh 一同出席。Chris，感谢你今天的到来。

Chris Suh

Thank you for having me. This is a really great conference.

感谢邀请。这是一场非常出色的大会。

Harshita Rawat

So let's get the macro question out of the way. Let's talk about the overall spending environment. What are you seeing in terms of current spending trends, both domestically and in cross-border?

那我们先解决宏观层面的问题。我们来谈谈整体消费环境。就国内和跨境支出而言，你们目前看到哪些趋势？

Chris Suh

Yes. Again, thanks for having me. It's good to see everyone. Yes. I mean, there is a lot to process, right? And consumers have been processing that. We could see, like all of you can, there's more uncertainty certainly in the sentiment. It reflects in the consumer sentiment. It certainly reflects in headlines. And so when there is a little bit of noise in the system as we see today, we always do what we always do, which is really rely on facts and data.

是的，再次感谢邀请，见到大家很高兴。确实，现在有很多因素需要消化，消费者也在消化。正如各位所见，市场情绪中确实存在更多不确定性，这体现在消费者信心上，也体现在新闻头条上。因此，当系统中出现一些噪音时，我们一如既往地坚持依靠事实和数据。

And so what are the facts as we see them? The facts as we see them is that employment numbers look pretty good. Wage growth remains relatively stable. Inflation has moderated relatively, and that's translated to a relatively resilient consumer. Those are the facts. The data, as we see it, has also been relatively stable. And this is what we talked about in our earnings calls, so our earnings call was at the end of April, April 29.

那么，我们目前看到的事实是什么？事实是，就业数据相当不错，工资增速保持相对稳定，通胀有所缓和，这些因素共同造就了相对有韧性的消费者。这些都是事实。从数据来看，也保持了相对稳定。这也是我们在收益电话会上讨论的内容，我们的电话会在 4 月 29 日举行。

And as we shared, really through the end of April, payments volume, transactions in the U.S. and abroad, even coming off of a relatively strong quarter that we saw in December had remained relatively stable. And so that was all a good thing and we shared all that on April 29.

正如我们在电话会上分享的，截至 4 月底，美国及海外的支付额和交易量，即便是在 12 月强劲季度之后，依旧保持相对稳定。这是积极信号，我们在 4 月 29 日的电话会上已说明。

Now we're -- what are we, about a month later, I can share a little bit of an update to what we've seen effectively through the month of May, which is in the U.S., payments volume data primarily has remained in line with what we seeing in April, what we saw in the month of April, which means for the quarter, it's actually tracking a little bit better than Q2, again reflecting the resilience in consumer. So that's the U.S.

现在，大约过了一个月，我可以分享一下截至 5 月的最新情况：在美国，支付额基本与 4 月保持一致，这意味着本季度表现略好于第二财季，再次印证消费者的韧性。这是美国市场。

And we're seeing similar trends in most major markets around the world as well. So again, general stability to what we saw in Q2 through the first -- almost 3 weeks, that's actually data through the 21st of May.

在全球多数主要市场，我们也看到类似趋势。因此，整体仍延续第二财季的稳定表现——这里的数据截至 5 月 21 日，约三周时间。

Now cross-border, I want to spend a minute maybe on cross-border and unpack that a little bit. There's been more moving parts, as you know, cross-border pre-COVID, COVID, post-COVID recovery that differed in different parts of the world. We saw, if you go back a couple of quarters, previous to the December quarter, the last 2 quarters of our fiscal year had reached a sort of a stable sort of level. And then we saw an acceleration in the December quarter, particularly in travel cross-border.

接下来谈谈跨境。我想多花一点时间细分。跨境业务在疫情前、疫情期间及疫情后各地区复苏节奏不同。回顾几个季度，在 12 月季度之前，我们上财年的最后两个季度跨境业务已达到某种稳定水平；而在 12 月季度，尤其是跨境旅行领域，我们看到加速增长。

And then we saw it moderate back in our fiscal first quarter, the March quarter, back to the kind of the levels that we had seen in the 2 quarters prior to December. That's kind of the 4-quarter trend that we saw. Now there was some noise in the system, too, that we talked about, the timing of Easter, timing of Ramadan that impacted March and the month of April. And so we tried to distill all that, and there was obviously some currency things happening as well, putting aside sort of sentiment.

随后在我们财政第一季度（3 月季度）出现回落，回到 12 月季度之前那两个季度的水平。这就是过去四个季度的趋势。期间也有一些噪音，例如复活节、斋月的时点影响了 3 月和 4 月数据，加上汇率因素。我们试图剔除这些影响，先不谈情绪面。

We tried to distill all that and we said, okay, what we expect for the rest of the year is to just sort of cut through the noise and say, if you take the average of March and April, which normalizes for some of these timing things, as well as takes into account some of the currency things, that would be what we would expect to see for the rest of the year.

因此，我们采取的方法是：取 3 月和 4 月的平均水平，以抵消节日时点及汇率等因素，并将其作为全年剩余时间的预期基准。

And through the month of March or at least through the 3 weeks of March, the quarter-to-date, it's playing out generally as we had anticipated, which also means that the 3 weeks in May is a little bit below the month of April. That was anticipated, and that's playing out the way that we thought for the quarter.

从 3 月开始（至少前三周），迄今季度表现大体符合预期，也意味着 5 月前三周稍低于 4 月水平，这在预料之中，季度走势符合我们的判断。

If things stay on track, obviously, we're going to finish the quarter a little before -- below Q4 of last year. And so that's -- I know there's a lot of math camp in that. But net-net, it's kind of playing out as anticipated. Obviously, a month still to go. As I said, we're seeing these trends sort of move around a bit but largely as anticipated. And we'll see how the rest of the quarter plays out here in about 1.5 months when we report out.

如果趋势不变，本季度将略低于去年第四财季。虽然其中计算复杂，但总的来说一切如预期推进。当然，离季度结束还有一个月，如我所言，趋势会有波动，但大体符合预期。等到一个半月后我们公布业绩时，再看最终结果。

Q – Harshita Rawat

So Chris, staying on this kind of macro topic for just a bit, so I know you noted on the earnings call that you're quite diversified in your cross-border business and no single corridor is more than 25% of your cross-border volumes. Taking a step back, how should we think about the recession sensitivity on cross-border? I know travel is 60%, e-comm is 40%, arguably, both have a little bit of sensitivity to macro.

Chris，我们再在宏观层面多聊一点。你在财报电话会上提到，Visa 的跨境业务非常多元化，没有任何单一走廊占跨境总量的 25% 以上。往后退一步看，我们应如何看待跨境业务对经济衰退的敏感度？我知道跨境中旅行占 60%，电商占 40%，这两块都多少会受宏观环境影响。

Chris Suh

Yes. It is really one of the great strengths of the Visa business is the diversification that you talked about. It applies broadly across the business. We have more exposure to different spend categories, geographical exposure, everyday spend, discretionary spend, high, low ticket, credit, debit, the breadth of the business. And that applies, as you put it, to our cross-border business.

没错。Visa 的一大优势正是你提到的多元化，这在整个业务中都体现得很充分：我们覆盖的消费类别广泛，地域分布多样；既有日常支出，也有可选消费；既有高客单，也有低客单；既做信用，也做借记——跨境业务同样如此。

The cross-border business, as most of you know, is an important business for us for a bunch of reasons, including it has premium economics attached to it. As I just talked about, cross-border also has been one of the most variable numbers where payment volume and transactions have a consistency that's very -- that's really a great part of the business because of all the -- what's gone on in the world over the last 5 years, we've seen more variability in cross-border.

大家都知道，跨境对我们极其关键，原因之一是它带来更高的经济收益。但正如我刚说的，跨境流量同时也是波动最大的一块；相较于国内支付量的稳定性，过去五年的全球事件让跨境数据更易起伏。

One of the differences is e-commerce is a bigger part of the business, as you talked about. Pre-pandemic, it was lower than it is today. Now it's about 40% of the business. And so when you talk about sort of the diversification and the macro sensitivity to cross-border, there's a couple of things that I'd point out. One is, again, that 40%. E-commerce is more associated with everyday spend than travel, hotels, lodging, et cetera, et cetera. E-commerce has -- cross-border e-commerce has more everyday spend categories in there.

其中一个变化是电商份额变大了，疫情前没那么高，现在大概占 40%。这很重要，因为电商相比旅行、酒店更偏向日常消费，跨境电商里日常支出成分更多。

But not only is it just like e-commerce is only retail type goods. E-commerce, even within the categories of e-commerce, there's quite a bit of diversification. So it is your retail goods. You might be buying a pair of shoes from Europe. You might be buying sunscreen from Asia, for example. But you also might be buying retail services.

而且电商不只是零售实物。即便在电商内部，也非常多元：除了买欧洲的鞋、亚洲的防晒霜，还可能购买零售服务。

You may be moving money cross-border via remittances. You might be paying off a BNPL loan cross-border. There's also B2B in there like advertising, for example. And then there's even like crypto purchases cross-border. So even within the categories of e-commerce, there's a lot of variety and diversification, putting aside the fact that e-commerce itself is more resilient.

还包括跨境汇款、偿还 BNPL 贷款、B2B 支付（例如跨国广告费），甚至跨境购买加密货币。也就是说，电商内部的结构本身就很分散，而电商整体又相对抗周期。

Now none of this means we're immune, of course, to macro sensitivity. But as you pointed out, we have great geo diversification with both issuing. You mentioned the reference to the 25%. None of our -- we have 5 regions that we categorize our business by, and none of those regions, no single region is more than 25%. And that's on the issuing side, both for e-commerce and for travel.

当然，这并不代表我们完全免疫宏观波动。但正如你说的，我们在发行端的地域多元化非常好：公司按 5 大区域管理业务，没有任何一个区域（无论电商还是旅行）占发行端跨境总量的 25% 以上。

And also important to note, even on the acquiring sides, on the inbound travel side, there we have great diversification as well. And I know there's a lot of questions about the U.S.

同样值得一提的是，在收单侧——即跨境入境旅游流量——我们的分布也很分散。我知道外界对美国市场有很多关注。

And the U.S. is actually one of the smaller from an acquired inbound travel volume standpoint as well. And so there's great diversification in the business. That volume diversification also applies on cross-border revenue. And so we have great distribution and diversification on the revenue side of the business. So again, not immune, but there's attributes to the business, natural diversification and things that we've done to drive things like e-commerce that really helps on the sensitivity side.

但就收单端的跨境入境旅行业务量而言，美国的占比其实并不算高。由此可见，我们在交易量和收入上都非常分散。再次强调，我们并非完全不受经济周期影响，但天然的多元化，加上我们持续推动电商等板块的发展，使得跨境业务的景气敏感度得到明显缓冲。

Harshita Rawat

Chris, there's a lot of exciting things happening at Visa. It's been a very busy time for you. We heard from you at the Investor Day, which is great. Since then, you've had a lot of partnership announcements. And a few weeks ago, you had your 2025 Product Drop. And there are a bunch of announcements that came out of it that I want to ask you about.

Chris，Visa 现在有许多令人振奋的新动向，你也一直非常忙碌。我们在投资者日听到了你的分享，这非常棒。自那之后，你们宣布了大量合作伙伴关系。几周前，你们又举行了 2025 产品发布会，并发布了一系列公告，我想就此向你提几个问题。

So starting with the agentic commerce. So you introduced Visa Intelligent Commerce for developers building AI agents payments. You have an impressive, very impressive partner live there. Tell us about how Visa sees the future of commerce and why it will be a preferred way to pay as agents make purchases.

那就先从 agentic commerce 说起。你们推出了 Visa Intelligent Commerce，面向构建 AI 代理支付的开发者。你们还有一位非常令人印象深刻的合作伙伴现场参与。请谈谈 Visa 如何看待未来的商业，以及为什么在代理替用户购物时，它将成为首选的支付方式。

Chris Suh

Yes, we held our first ever Visa Product Drop event. It was on April 30 so it was a terrific event. You heard from Ryan McInerney, our CEO, Jack Forestell, Chief Product Officer. Oliver Jenkyn who runs our global markets, and we had a special guest Sarah Friar from OpenAI attend. It's all available online if you have not had a chance to look at it. It's a compact 90-minute presentation. Please go out and take a look at it. There's some exciting stuff there.

是的，我们首次举办了 Visa Product Drop 活动，时间是 4 月 30 日。这是一场精彩的活动。会上有我们的首席执行官 Ryan McInerney、首席产品官 Jack Forestell，以及负责全球市场的 Oliver Jenkyn 的分享，我们还邀请了 OpenAI 的特邀嘉宾 Sarah Friar 出席。如果你还没来得及观看，全部内容都已上线，是一场精简的 90 分钟演示，欢迎观看，其中有很多令人兴奋的内容。

It was a great event for me for a couple of reasons. One, it really gave us a chance to tell our story around everything that we've been doing in the company, around product innovation and thought leadership. And so it's a great platform for us to go do that. And one of the most exciting advancements is, of course, we talked about, as you called it, agentic AI or what we call Intelligent Commerce.

这次活动之所以精彩，对我有两个原因。首先，它让我们有机会讲述公司在产品创新和思想领导力方面所做的一切；其次，它为我们提供了一个极佳的平台来展示这些成果。其中最令人兴奋的进展之一，就是你所说的 agentic AI，也就是我们称之为 Intelligent Commerce 的项目。

So Visa has been in the AI game for a long, long time. We've talked about it in the context of fraud prevention, detection, scoring. We were one of the first to bring this to market with a number of our services decades ago, using sort of the traditional forms of AI to really provide that broad scoring.

事实上，Visa 在 AI 领域深耕已久。我们一直在欺诈预防、检测和评分等场景中使用 AI。几十年前，我们就率先将多项服务推向市场，采用的是较为传统的 AI 形式，以提供广泛的评分能力。

So the purpose of that generation of AI was really around protecting the consumer. And our vision for the future with generative AI is that we can really bring to bear services and innovation that really empowers the consumer. And so we announced a number of services enabled to -- that enables us to go do that and we're really excited about that. So how do we empower consumers in a world where commerce continues to evolve?

那一代 AI 的主要目标是保护消费者。而在生成式 AI 的未来愿景中，我们希望通过服务与创新真正赋能消费者。为此，我们宣布了多项服务来实现这一目标，我们对此非常激动。那么，在商业不断演进的世界里，我们如何为消费者赋能？

Much like I think that generative AI has the ability to transform commerce, much in the same way that e-commerce transformed the purchasing experience for face-to-face. I mean, we think it's that significant. So we announced, as you called it, Agentic Commerce, as we call it Intelligent Commerce. What is Intelligent Commerce? A set of services that really empowers consumers to be able to buy -- enable an agent to buy on their behalf in a safe and secure way. It's a number of services that allow developers then to provide services that enable that experience as well.

我认为生成式 AI 变革商业的能力，堪比当年电子商务对线下购物体验的颠覆，我们认为这一变革同样重大。因此，我们宣布了你所说的 Agentic Commerce，也就是我们所称的 Intelligent Commerce。什么是 Intelligent Commerce？它是一套服务，使消费者能够让代理以安全可靠的方式代表他们进行购买，也是一组帮助开发者交付这种体验的服务。

A handful of services that we announced that enabled us to go do that. One is -- one are AI cards. And so the cards obviously need to be advanced and evolved in order to support this new experience. And it really takes advantage of tokenization technology, which is the modern credentials. It takes your traditional card credentials, digitizes it in a form that's more safe and secure. And authentication, so your agent has to be able to obviously be granted permission to transact on your behalf, authenticate it securely in that manner.

我们宣布了几项服务来实现这一目标。其中之一是 AI 卡。为了支持这种全新的体验，卡片显然需要升级演进。它充分利用了代币化技术——一种现代化凭据，将传统的卡片信息数字化，使其更加安全可靠。同时还包括身份验证，代理必须获得权限才能代表你交易，并以安全方式完成认证。

Secondly, it's the evolution of our data tokens to have a very personalized experience. And so the AI agent, with your permission, with consent, is enabled to then personalize that experience for you. So at our Product Drop event, you saw Jack give a really great example. And so his example, of course, was he's a traveler that's going to Florida and he has certain likes. And now most travelers, if you just go to a standard search, you might find the beach and you might find things like this, but Jack, maybe Jack likes to hike or maybe he likes to fish.

其次，是我们数据代币的演进，以实现高度个性化的体验。在获得你的许可和同意后，AI 代理便可为你定制这一体验。在我们的 Product Drop 活动上，你看到 Jack 举了一个很好的例子：他是一位前往佛罗里达的旅客，有自己的偏好。大多数旅客如果只是常规搜索，可能只会找到海滩等信息，但 Jack 可能喜欢徒步或钓鱼。

The technology really, the personalization aspect of it really understands who he is and says, "Hey, if I'm planning a trip to Miami, here's the things Jack likes to do. Here's the things that we know well. The types of hotels he likes to stay at, the types of restaurants, the airlines he likes to fly and serves it all up for you." Now where that breaks down, though, in the commerce world is that once you get to that point, even using platforms like OpenAI, what happens next?

这项技术的个性化功能真正了解他是谁，并会说：“嘿，如果我要去迈阿密旅行，以下是 Jack 喜欢做的事情、我们熟知的内容、他喜欢入住的酒店类型、喜欢的餐厅以及偏好的航空公司。”然而在商业世界中，一旦你走到这一步，即使使用 OpenAI 之类的平台，接下来会发生什么呢？

Well, then you say, okay, I want to transact. Well, then it sends you to 5 different websites. You have to enter, you have to authenticate. You have to log in. You have to enter your credit card information. There might be like a thing that gets sent to your phone to authenticate that to make sure it knows who you are. Then you have to enter a shipping address and a billing address and a PIN or a code. I mean, it's a very sort of traditional experience. And so none of that -- there's a lot of friction in that today.

接下来你会说，好吧，我要进行交易。然后系统会把你带到五个不同的网站，你需要输入信息并进行身份验证。你得登录，输入信用卡信息，手机可能会收到验证码用来确认身份；接着还得输入收货地址、账单地址以及 PIN 码或验证码。这是一种非常传统的体验，如今其中存在大量摩擦。

And of course, the vision for Intelligent Commerce is all of that is authenticated in the back end. And so that experience can just continue by saying, the agent could tell you, okay, here is the things that we think you'll like. Would you like to proceed? Hit yes, and then if you hit yes, then it all gets done sort of on your behalf. And so imagine how much friction gets removed in that process.

而 Intelligent Commerce 的愿景是，在后台完成所有认证。这样，体验就可以继续——代理会告诉你：“好的，这是我们认为你会喜欢的选项，你是否要继续？”你按下“是”后，后续操作就会自动为你完成。想象一下，这个过程中的摩擦会减少多少。

And so that's what Intelligent Commerce. It's obviously early days. It will enable that whole process to work. We had great partners, as you pointed out, OpenAI, Perplexity, Anthropic, Mistral, Microsoft, Stripe lined up. They all share this vision. It's going to be super exciting to see how it evolves.

这就是 Intelligent Commerce 的概念。目前显然还处于早期阶段，但它将使整个流程得以实现。正如你所提到的，我们与 OpenAI、Perplexity、Anthropic、Mistral、Microsoft、Stripe 等优秀伙伴合作，他们都认同这一愿景，看到它如何演变将会非常令人兴奋。

可能是一个可行的方案。

Harshita Rawat

Fantastic. And Chris, a couple of weeks ago, you also announced a partnership with Stripe stablecoin infrastructure firm, Bridge. Given that this is a very topical topic, how do you see the path for stablecoin adoption, for example, for cross-border payments and what role can Visa play here?

太棒了。克里斯，几周前你们还宣布与 Stripe 的稳定币基础设施公司 Bridge 建立合作关系。鉴于这是一个备受关注的话题，你如何看待稳定币的采用路径，例如在跨境支付方面？Visa 在其中可以扮演什么角色？

Chris Suh

Yes. We view the advancement of crypto, especially in the form of stablecoin as a really interesting and large opportunity for Visa. We've been in the stable -- or in the crypto business, if you could call it that, for some time in sort of multiple ways. I would categorize it in 3 sorts of categories: cards, settlement and programmable money. Those are the 3 opportunities as we see it.

是的。我们认为加密货币的发展，特别是稳定币形式，对 Visa 来说是一个非常有趣且巨大的机会。可以说，我们在稳定币或更广义的加密领域已深耕多时，并以多种方式参与其中。我把机会分为三大类：卡片、清算以及可编程货币。

We think stablecoins, in particular, are interesting. It can revolutionize or can advance the way money moves around the world, the infrastructure for money movement. And then, of course, unlocking the promise of programmable money, I think, is super interesting. So what have we been doing historically? So historically, we've done a lot in the first 2 of the 3 that I mentioned, which is cards. And so we worked with going back sort of pre-stablecoin even, we worked with Crypto.com and Coinbase to allow Visa-linked cards -- crypto-linked cards to be able to spend their crypto.

我们认为稳定币尤为令人兴奋，因为它可以革新或提升全球资金流动及其基础设施，并进一步释放可编程货币的潜力。那我们过去做了什么？在我提到的三大领域中，我们在前两项——卡片方面投入最多。早在稳定币兴起之前，我们就与 Crypto.com、Coinbase 合作，让 Visa 关联卡——加密卡能够直接消费加密资产。

And since we've launched that several years ago, we've done roughly \$95 billion of volume purchased volume, and we've enabled the cards to be able to spend that, about \$25 billion in spending on those cards. Now most of that volume was actually just buying and selling crypto. And so with stablecoin, obviously creates a whole new set of use cases. We've also been working with it in settlement in our own operations. Settlement hasn't really been modernized for some time. With stablecoin, we have the opportunity to potentially even do 7-day settlement, which I think is really interesting.

自几年前推出以来，我们已处理约 950 亿美元的购买交易额，其中约 250 亿美元通过这些卡完成消费。然而大部分交易量仍集中于加密资产的买卖。稳定币的出现显然带来了全新的使用场景。在清算方面，我们也已着手将稳定币应用于自身运营。清算流程已有多年未见重大革新，而稳定币让我们有机会实现 7×24 小时清算，我认为这非常具有吸引力。

We've done about \$225 million of settlement using stablecoin. And it really was generated by our clients who had asked us, "Gosh, we have -- we operate our business using stablecoin. We have a lot of our clients who like to spend stablecoin. Can we just think of stablecoin as another form of currency that we can then settle in?" Because Visa settles in multiple currencies, dozens of currencies today. And so we said, okay, that seems pretty reasonable. Let's try that out.

截至目前，我们已使用稳定币完成约 2.25 亿美元的清算。这主要源于客户需求，他们表示：“我们业务以稳定币计价，客户也喜欢用稳定币支付，能否把稳定币当作 Visa 清算货币之一？”鉴于 Visa 目前已支持数十种清算货币，我们认为这完全合理，于是开展了试点。

It continues to grow. It's relatively small today, but we think we'll do over \$1 billion in settlement over the next 12 to 18 months. And then the third, of course, is programmable money. So with stablecoin, one of the really interesting things is that it is digital currency, it's digital money. It's going to -- we have -- we would launch a service called Visa Token Asset -- VTAP. I can't remember the exact acronym right off the top of my head. Sorry about that.

该业务仍在增长，目前规模相对较小，但我们预计未来 12 至 18 个月内清算额将超过 10 亿美元。第三大领域当然是可编程货币。稳定币的一个关键特征就是其数字化属性。我们计划推出名为 Visa Token Asset——VTAP（缩写我一时想不起完整称呼，抱歉）的服务。

But there's -- we have a service that allows issuers to burn their own stablecoin. And what's programmable money? Well, programmable money is like code. It turns money into code. And so as code, you can financial -- service -- a financial institution can design and create very specific use cases. So for example, you can create a loan that automatically disburses itself if certain criteria is met, and you could do that within the code of the money itself. And we think it's exciting.

该服务允许发卡机构发行并“销毁”自己的稳定币。那么什么是可编程货币？它就像代码，把货币本身变成代码。金融机构可以基于代码设计极其具体的用例。例如，当满足某些条件时，贷款可自动发放，这一逻辑直接写进货币代码中。我们对此感到非常兴奋。

We think -- there's some early days and a bunch of use cases that are in process. We're launching this summer with BBVA as the first to try out this sort of programmable money opportunity pilot. And so I think it's super interesting. So I do think that there's a bunch of use cases, like I said. You talked about the Bridge-Stripe announcement. I think that's another interesting one. With stablecoin, it's really tapping into the acceptance footprint, right? So 150 million merchant locations around the globe that will be enabled.

该领域仍处早期阶段，但正在孵化众多场景。今年夏天，我们将与 BBVA 合作启动首个可编程货币试点，这非常令人期待。正如你提到的 Bridge-Stripe 的合作，这也是一个新契机。稳定币可以借助 Visa 的全球受理网络——覆盖 1.5 亿个商户受理点——大规模落地。

Bridge will be another one of our partners that enables their customers to be able to tap into that acceptance network. So I think there's a lot of interesting use cases that are -- we're still in early days, but a lot of interesting use cases to come around cards, settlement and programmable money.

Bridge 也将成为我们的合作伙伴之一，使其客户能够接入这一受理网络。因此，我认为在卡片、清算和可编程货币三大领域还有大量有趣的应用场景等待落地，目前依旧只是开始。

Harshita Rawat

It's so interesting because crypto and stablecoins are often perceived as risk to Visa. And here we are kind of talking about the opportunities that it's creating for you.

这很有意思，因为加密货币和稳定币常被视为 Visa 的风险，而我们现在却在讨论它为你们带来的机遇。

Chris Suh

We definitely see it.

我们确实如此看待。

Harshita Rawat

So let's talk about how Visa is changing. So almost a year ago, you announced a number of changes to the Visa Card, including Flex Credentials and Tap to Everything. We talked about the AI-ready cards already. But tell us about how the Visa card is changing and how that's resonating with your partners.

让我们来聊聊 Visa 正在发生的变化。大约一年前，你们宣布对 Visa 卡进行多项调整，包括 Flex Credentials 和 Tap to Everything。我们已经谈到过 AI-ready 卡片。那么，请告诉我们 Visa 卡本身正在发生哪些变化，以及这些变化在合作伙伴中引起了怎样的反响。

Chris Suh

Yes. The Flexible Credential, there's been incredible reception to the Flexible Credential. What is the Flexible Credential? It is a single Visa credential that enables the consumer to basically toggle between funding sources, whether that's credit or -- initially launching a credit, debit, and buy now pay later. We've seen a lot of interesting -- it's only been basically out in the market for like 2 years now. But already, there's a lot of very interesting ideas and innovation that's coming up.

是的，Flexible Credential 受到了热烈反响。那么什么是 Flexible Credential？它是一种单一的 Visa 凭据，允许消费者在多种资金来源之间自由切换——最初支持信用、借记以及“先买后付”。这种产品面市不过两年左右，但已涌现出大量有趣的创意和创新。

We launched initially in early 2023 with SMBC in Japan, something we called Olive. They've grown very rapidly. They have millions of consumers now on their Olive Card, their Flex Credential card. They saw, in 2024, 150%-plus growth in their credential holders for the Flex Credential. And what's even more interesting is that Flexible Credential holders spend more, spend 40% more than other cardholders that don't have the Flex Credential. And so I think we sort of hit a nerve in the industry of companies that are interested.

我们最早于 2023 年初与日本三井住友银行（SMBC）合作推出了名为 Olive 的项目。Olive 发展迅速，目前已有数百万用户持有 Olive 卡，即 Flex Credential 卡。仅 2024 年，他们的持卡人数就增长了逾 150%。更有意思的是，Flex Credential 持卡人的消费额比没有该凭据的持卡人高出 40%。显然，我们击中了行业内众多企业的痛点。

So once we started with SMBC and Olive, it's expanded. So we launched with a firm in the U.S. with their 1.7 million cardholders about 6 months ago. We announced a launch with Liv in the UAE and Liv is the first that's multicurrency. So I talked about debit and credit. And with Liv, you could actually switch between currencies and so that gives users ultimate flexibility. And so there's been sort of an explosion of ideas, not coming from us per se but coming from the industry, which has also been like the super exciting part of it.

在 SMBC 和 Olive 之后，该项目迅速扩张。约 6 个月前，我们在美国与一家机构合作，为其 170 万持卡人推出 Flex Credential。随后又宣布与阿联酋的 Liv 合作，Liv 是首个支持多币种的版本。用户不仅可在借记与信用之间切换，还能在不同货币间转换，为用户提供了极致灵活性。更令人兴奋的是，这些创意大多来自业界而非我们自身，呈现出“百花齐放”的局面。

There's over 200 use cases now that are in pilot for different ways to use Flexible Credentials. We think that we're very, very excited about that. At our Product Drop event, we announced more expansion. Klarna is going to be a new partner for Flex Credential. They're going to be the first to bring it to Europe. That will be exciting. There's a number of processors that are on board as well. FIS and Fiserv are 2 that come to mind.

目前已有 200 多个试点用例在探索 Flexible Credential 的多种玩法，这让我们倍感振奋。在近期的 Product Drop 活动上，我们宣布进一步扩张。Klarna 将成为新的 Flex Credential 合作伙伴，并率先将该产品带到欧洲，这令人期待。同时已有多家处理机构加入，例如 FIS 和 Fiserv。

And so again, sort of early days, initially, like starting 2 years ago with a single client. Expanding, getting people excited, getting participants excited, really leading with our innovation and one that we're excited to see continue to grow.

总的来说，这仍处于早期阶段；两年前我们仅有一个客户，如今已不断扩展并激发了行业与参与者的热情。我们将继续以创新引领，期待该项目持续成长。

Harshita Rawat

I want to go back to your recent Investor Day and revisit the Visa as a service construct. Remind us about what the unbundled Visa capabilities unlock for you in terms of different payment types, for example, account to account? Similar to crypto interestingly, account to account is often kind of viewed as a risk to Visa and Visa as a service kind of turns that into an opportunity.

我想回到你们最近的投资者日，再次探讨 Visa as a Service 的架构。请提醒我们，Visa 将能力解耦后，在不同支付类型（例如账户到账户支付）方面为你们带来了什么新空间？有趣的是，和加密货币类似，账户到账户支付常被视为 Visa 的风险，而 Visa as a Service 似乎将其转化为机遇。

Chris Suh

Yes. This is a good one that we could talk a lot about, Visa as a service and the evolution of our network strategy in A2A. So let's try to tackle both of those. One of the really interesting parts about our industry, of course, that you all know, everyone in this room knows really, really well is that payments at its core is a digital transaction. Always has been, even when digital was much more rudimentary than it is today. Even at our founding, Dee Hock was our Founder, referred to payments as digital, as data moving across the world at the speed of light.

好的，这个话题很值得深入讨论——既谈 Visa as a Service，也谈我们在账户到账户（A2A）领域的网络战略演进。让我们一并回答。众所周知，支付行业的核心始终是数字化交易，即便在数字技术尚不完善的年代也是如此。早在公司创立时，我们的创始人 Dee Hock 就将支付描述为数字化，以光速在全球流动的数据。

And so obviously, that started very small, sort of rudimentary data moving across what banks -- across a single bank. Today, in the number of decades that we've been around, 14,500 financial institutions, 4.8 billion traditional card credentials, 150 million merchants around the world, 10 billion-plus -- 13 billion tokenized credentials out there in the world, all moving data around at the speed of -- in milliseconds around the world every day.

当时，这只是银行内部传递的粗浅数据。如今，在数十年的发展中，我们已连接 14,500 家金融机构、48 亿张传统卡凭据、1.5 亿家商户，以及 100 亿至 130 亿枚代币化凭据，每天以毫秒级速度在全球传递支付数据。

And so like there's the inherent digital nature of the industry makes it ripe for innovation, makes it ripe for all the sort of great ideas from all the participants who can plug-in. And I think that's what makes Visa so special actually is that early on, we viewed ourselves as a very open platform. We were the first to open up this platform. We were the first to open it up for other participants, to other banks 6 decades ago. We were the first to open it up for developers and really become a network of networks.

支付行业与生俱来的数字属性，使其极易孕育创新，也使各方易于接入并施展创意。我认为这正是 Visa 的独特之处：早在几十年前，我们就将自己定位为开放平台。60 年前，我们率先向其他银行开放；随后，又率先向开发者开放，真正成为“网络中的网络”。

And so as a platform, it's always been the source of whether you're a fintech, whether you're a crypto player or wallet today, you know that you can rely on Visa to enable the network, the benefits of the network. And so that's what makes sort of Visa, again, special. It's the network, it's the safety, the security, the reliability but also the advanced features, tokenization, chargeback, fraud dispute, like all those things that sort of take place.

因此，无论是金融科技公司、加密企业还是数字钱包，都能依托 Visa 获得网络效应。这便是 Visa 的特别之处：不仅拥有广泛的网络覆盖，还提供安全、可靠的基础设施，以及代币化、退单、欺诈争议处理等高级功能。

And so what is Visa as a service? So it's really the evolution of that network strategy. It's our open platform. It's our infrastructure layer, it's our developer platform. It's a set of services that are on top of that. That's really been the secret sauce for VisaNet and the success of Visa for so many years was the explosion of players in the ecosystem.

那么，什么是 Visa as a Service？它是上述网络战略的进化版，涵盖开放平台、基础设施层和开发者平台，并在其上提供一系列服务。正是这种让生态参与者蓬勃发展的“秘诀”，成就了 VisaNet 及 Visa 多年来的成功。

What we really recognize also is that there's an opportunity now to unbundle the stack and make the componentized parts of the Visa stack or the Visa as a service stack available to participants of all flavors, whether you're running in the Visa network or you're running outside the Visa network.

我们还意识到，现在有机会将 Visa 的技术栈解耦，并将其中的组件化能力提供给所有类型的参与者，无论其业务是否运行在 Visa 网络之上。

You brought up A2A. I think that's a great example of what's happening with A2A. This question that you posed, is it an opportunity or is it a threat? Well, I think there's elements of so much of our business that -- where we do compete and we do see opportunities to sort of grow alongside of. I think it's also may be helpful just to refresh on A2A. We have sort of a 3-pronged approach. We compete with our card products. We offer A2A type services through Tink and Visa Direct for use cases that make sense. And then third, we'll continue to grow with value-added services on top of A2A.

你提到了 A2A。我认为它很好地说明了 A2A 的现状：它究竟是机遇还是威胁？对 Visa 而言，这两方面都存在。我们的 A2A 策略分三路并进：其一，用卡产品与之竞争；其二，通过 Tink 与 Visa Direct 针对合适场景提供 A2A 服务；其三，在 A2A 基础上持续扩展增值服务。

So what's the -- if I sort of combine the Visa stack strategy with what's happening with A2A, I think there's a really great example. So we have a service called Visa Advanced Authorization. It's been in existence since the '90s. It was sort of the early version of AI. It really took all the payment intelligence that we have across our system and gave our clients the ability to score fraud, assign a score to fraud risk and provide that score to the issuer in sort of milliseconds, and then they could determine whether they want to take that risk or not.

将 Visa 技术栈策略与 A2A 结合，有一个典型案例：Visa Advanced Authorization（VAA）。该服务自 1990 年代起便存在，可谓早期 AI 应用。它整合了我们系统中的支付洞察，在毫秒级时间内为发卡行提供欺诈评分，帮助其决策是否承担风险。

That was uniquely VisaNet. It's been very successful. Over its time, it's stopped. Today, we have great sort of adoption from our clients. We estimate that it stops about \$30 billion of fraud annually. Sort of a 2-step approach to Visa service. One, we said, okay, well, can we benefit from -- can the industry, the ecosystem, even if it's not on a Visa transaction, can it benefit from VAA? And we said, yes, I think that's a logical thing. I think we've added a lot of value.

最初，VAA 仅服务于 VisaNet，并取得显著成效。我们估计其每年可阻止约 300 亿美元的欺诈交易。随后，我们提出两步走：第一，行业和生态系统是否可以在非 Visa 交易中受益于 VAA？答案是肯定的。

And so we -- in 2024, we launched. In 2023, we launched a network-agnostic VAA service. And in 2024, it scored over 250 million transactions already. And so again, great sort of progress. We took that 1 step further with our Visa as a service strategy and said, okay, in the A2A world, we know that A2A is growing in many parts of the world. We also know that fraud is a problem in the A2A world where A2A transactions are very simple one-way transactions that are permanent.

因此，我们在 2023 年推出了与网络无关的 VAA 服务；到 2024 年，它已对 2.5 亿笔交易进行了评分，进展显著。进一步地，基于 Visa as a Service，我们考虑到全球多地 A2A 发展迅速、且其“一次性、不可逆”的特性使欺诈问题尤为突出。

So we said, of course, we think Visa -- we want Visa, we think Visa is the best way to pay and be paid, but we also acknowledge and recognize that there's payments that are happening in A2A networks, and so we think we could add a tremendous amount of value there. And so we launched Visa A2A PROTECT.

我们当然认为 Visa 是最佳支付方式，但也承认 A2A 网络中的支付正在发生，因此我们可以在其中提供巨大价值，于是推出了 Visa A2A PROTECT。

And we're piloting it in the U.K. We're working with 8 banks, I believe, that represent about 50% of the RTP networks there with over a 50% fraud detection rate. In Argentina, now we've scored 8 billion transactions already. And with a 70%-plus fraud protection rate, and we're piloting with 10 other banks now, including a handful in Brazil that represent about 20% of the Pix volume as well.

该方案已在英国试点，与 8 家银行合作，覆盖当地约 50% 的实时支付网络，欺诈检测率超过 50%。在阿根廷，我们已对 80 亿笔交易进行评分，欺诈保护率超过 70%，目前又在与 10 家银行开展试点，其中包括覆盖约 20% 巴西 Pix 交易量的数家机构。

And so again, we could compete with card. We can certainly sell our own A2A services, but I think the vast opportunity across A2A in different markets around the world is an interesting one. And that's a great example of the Visa stack and how we will continue to drive success alongside of other competing networks as well.

因此，除了用卡片业务竞争并销售自有 A2A 服务外，全球各市场广阔的 A2A 机会本身也十分吸引人。这正是 Visa 技术栈如何在与其他网络并存竞争中持续取得成功的又一典范。

Harshita Rawat

Let's switch gears and talk about the core of Visa, consumer payments. So you historically grow several percentage points faster than addressable consumer spend. I know in some markets such as the U.S., that delta relative to consumer spend has narrowed. And I know you've talked about it, some of that is kind of cyclical depending on goods versus services spend. Can you expand upon this? How do you see Visa's consumer volume growth prospects relative to addressable spend growth?

让我们转换话题，谈谈 Visa 的核心业务——消费者支付。历来你们的增速总是比可服务的消费者支出高出几个百分点。我知道在美国等部分市场，你们相对消费者支出的差距已缩小。我也了解到，你们提到其中一部分差异与商品支出和服务支出的周期变化有关。你能详细阐述一下吗？相对于可服务支出的增速，Visa 的消费者支付量增长前景如何？

Chris Suh

So we spent a good time -- amount of time at our Investor Day that you referenced earlier in our conversation. Again, that's all available online as well. Jack Forestell does a much thorougher job that I'm going to do here in the next 90 seconds talking about consumer payments because it is at the heart of Visa's business. It's the business that we built our business on for many decades, as excited as we are about VAS and new flows and CMS growth.

正如你之前提到的投资者日活动，我们在会上对此讨论了相当长的时间，相关内容也都可在网上查看。Jack Forestell 对消费者支付的阐述远比我接下来 90 秒内能做到的详尽，因为这是 Visa 业务的核心，是我们数十年来赖以立身的基石——尽管我们对增值服务（VAS）、新流量及 CMS 业务的增长同样充满激情。

We still think that there's tremendous runway in front of us in our consumer payments business. We sized it, \$23 trillion of volume around the world that moves in less effective means that we think would be better served running on a Visa network. Now comparatively, Visa's consumer payments volume last year was about \$11.5 trillion. And so that's -- the addressable opportunity still in front is more than 2x the size of our business today as successful as we've been.

我们依然认为消费者支付业务前景广阔。经测算，全球仍有约 23 万亿美元的交易量通过效率较低的方式流转，而这些交易若转至 Visa 网络将获得更好服务。相比之下，Visa 去年的消费者支付量约为 11.5 万亿美元，因此即便我们已十分成功，眼前的可服务机会仍超过现有业务规模两倍。

There's lots of ways that we're going after that. That \$23 trillion is comprised of cash and cheque. It's comprised of ACH and other forms of electronic payment that we think are less effective and less modern, volume that runs on domestic schemes around the globe. And so we have a real opportunity to go after that to continue our growth. As you pointed out, we've historically grown a lot faster than underlying PCE. It's about 6 points. If you go back to 2018 to 2023, we grew -- underlying PCE grew about 4%. We grew about 10% in payment volume. So that's a 6-point delta.

我们正通过多种方式争取这部分市场。那 23 万亿美元主要包括现金和支票，也包括 ACH 及其他效率较低、较不现代化的电子支付形式，以及全球各地的本地清算网络交易量。我们有充分机会抓住这些增量，推动持续增长。如你所言，我们的增速历来大幅领先于居民消费支出（PCE）增长，差距约为 6 个百分点。2018 至 2023 年间，PCE 均增约 4%，而我们的支付量增幅约 10%，差距即为 6 个百分点。

That was about 7% outside the U.S., about 5% in the U.S. and so averaging to about 6%. That has shrunk. That gap has shrunk over the last X number of years, as you pointed out. But I'll also point out that revenue growth has been very, very stable through that -- and healthy through that time period as well, reflecting the, again, the strength of our business.

其中，美国以外地区领先约 7%，美国领先约 5%，平均约 6%。正如你指出的，近几年这一差距有所收窄。但与此同时，我们的收入增长一直保持非常稳定且健康，再次体现了业务的韧性和实力。

We spend a lot of time on this, and so let me just sort of dissect that a little bit further. There's a bunch of markets where there's -- the digital penetration is very, very high: Norway, Netherlands, Denmark, New Zealand, Canada, Korea. We continue to grow really healthy in those markets, well above underlying PCE. In places like New Zealand, Netherlands and Norway, we're growing 9 points above underlying addressable spend.

我们对此进行了大量研究，以下再拆解一下。在一些数字化渗透率极高的市场，如挪威、荷兰、丹麦、新西兰、加拿大、韩国，我们依旧保持远高于 PCE 的稳健增速。例如在新西兰、荷兰、挪威，我们的增速比可服务支出高 9 个百分点。

How do we continue to do that? Well, we continue to do that through advancements in our technology like Tap to Pay. Tap to Pay is a phenomenal -- like Tap to Pay, as you all know it, it took -- you all, I'm sure, tap every single day, but the underlying infrastructure and the underlying effort, it actually was a heavy lift to get there because you have to have NFC-enabled cards, which means we have 4.8 billion cards in the world today.

我们如何做到这一点？一大关键是技术进步，例如 Tap to Pay。如今 Tap to Pay 已成为日常习惯，但其背后的基础设施建设十分艰巨，需要全球 48 亿张卡均具备 NFC 功能。

Think about all the issuers having to modernize those cards, replace them with chip-enabled NFC cards or in your phone. You had to -- we have 150 million merchants around the world. You had to get point-of-sale terminals that accept NFC cards. And so that was a heavy lift.

设想所有发卡机构需升级卡片，换成带芯片的 NFC 卡或数字卡；全球 1.5 亿家商户必须配备支持 NFC 的 POS 终端。这是一项巨大的工程。

But once you got there, what happened is that it's become habit. And the great thing about habit, so there are certain habits that are daily like transit. So transit was sort of a Trojan horse into Tap to Pay. As people tapped for transit for the billions of people around the world to take transit, they also then would tap at the grocery store or at the restaurant, and et cetera, et cetera.

一旦基础到位，Tap to Pay 就成了习惯。其中，公共交通起到了“木马”作用——全球数十亿人每天刷卡乘车，也就顺势在杂货店、餐厅等处习惯性刷卡付款。

And the halo effect of all that is that once you start tapping, you actually spend more. And so we find that payment volume is 15% higher for people that tap because of -- not just because of the 1 transaction, but because they tap and there's no friction and it's a smoother, easier process at all the places they shop and conduct commerce at.

这一习惯带来“光环效应”：一旦开始刷卡，人们的消费总额更高。数据显示，Tap 用户的支付量高出 15%，不仅因为多了一次交易，还因全程无摩擦、流程顺畅，使其在各类场景更愿意刷卡消费。

There's more volume, there's 18% more transactions. And so places like Norway, Netherlands, New Zealand, tapping has been a great -- tapping and innovation has been a great leading indicator of success. We're also gaining share from domestic schemes. In many markets, the domestic schemes are -- they serve a purpose. They've been quite successful. We just think that we have a better value proposition, international acceptance, authentication, again, our advancements with our network strategy around fraud detection and AI. We think we have a very -- a good solution there.

总交易量也随之上升，交易笔数增加 18%。因此在挪威、荷兰、新西兰等地，Tap 与创新已成为成功领先指标。我们也在从本地清算网络中争夺份额；这些本地网络虽行之有效，但我们认为 Visa 提供了更优的价值主张——全球受理、可靠认证，以及在欺诈检测和 AI 网络策略上的持续进步。

And we continue to win share against competitors as well. And so again, we'll continue to win even in markets that have high digital penetration or low cash. In our Investor Day presentation, Jack then went through a number of reasons why consumer payments will continue to grow, putting aside even the Norway example here for a second. He actually went through, in detail, 6 of them. A lot of them was based on our technology. We talked about Flex Credential. We talked about A2A as an example. He went through 3 or 4 of these examples, Tap to Everything, which I just talked about is another unlock for that.

我们也在持续赢得竞争对手的份额。因此即便在高数字渗透或低现金的市场，我们仍将取胜。在投资者日上，Jack 详细阐述了消费者支付继续增长的多重原因，共列举 6 大要点，其中很多与技术相关——如 Flex Credential、A2A，以及刚提到的 Tap to Everything 等 3、4 个例子。

We talked about our focus on cross-border and Affluent and A2A. And so there are 6 very distinct strategies that we're going after to continue to win in consumer payments. Add that all up, I know it's a very long answer to a very simple -- what seems like a very simple question. But when you add that all up, it gives us great confidence to say we're going to continue to grow our consumer payments business faster than the underlying spend. Then you add in the great momentum that we have with value-added services and with CMS, and I think you see why we're so confident.

我们还强调了跨境、高净值客户及 A2A 领域的布局。由此形成 6 大明确战略，确保在消费者支付领域继续取胜。综合来看，这个冗长回答源于一个看似简单的问题，但所有因素加总后，我们有充分信心持续实现消费者支付业务增速快于基础支出，再叠加增值服务和 CMS 的卓越动能，你就能理解我们何以如此自信。

Harshita Rawat

And I know some of the stats you gave around share gains versus domestic schemes, for example, in Continental Europe, Germany, France were really, really interesting, and also at the Investor Day.

我知道你提到的一些关于相较各国本地清算网络所获得的份额提升的数据——例如在欧洲大陆、德国、法国的表现——非常有意思，而且在投资者日也提到过。

Chris Suh

Yes. I mean, Europe, for us, if I could just sidebar for a minute on Europe, I mean, Europe is one of our most interesting and exciting opportunities for us. We classify that as a high potential market in sort of our go-to-market approach. And by that, we mean it's got mature, sophisticated digital infrastructure and penetration and still a high level of cash. There's \$2 trillion of available cash in Europe today, which is about 20% of the available cash in the world.

是的。让我稍微谈一下欧洲：对我们来说，欧洲是最有趣、最令人兴奋的机遇之一。在我们的市场策略中，它被归为高潜力市场。这意味着那里拥有成熟、先进的数字基础设施和渗透率，同时现金使用仍然很高。如今欧洲流通的现金约有 2 万亿美元，占全球现金总量约 20%。

So you have this sort of juxtaposition, a really sort of exciting juxtaposition of sophisticated, mature, advanced mature markets, mature economies and high cash. And so we continue to go after that in a significant way as well as that's just the cash part. Then the thing that you just talked about, which is in France, I was just in France last week and how we're competing against the local domestic scheme, very exciting. In Germany, in Italy, there's significant share held by domestic schemes. And again, I just think we have a stronger value proposition, and we're going to continue to win share from them.

这就形成了一个引人注目的对比：高度成熟发达的市场与经济，却仍大量使用现金。因此我们将大力推进这一机会，且不仅仅是针对现金方面。正如你提到的法国——我上周刚在法国考察，我们正与当地本地清算网络竞争，形势非常振奋。在德国和意大利，本地网络占有显著份额，但我认为我们的价值主张更具优势，我们会继续从它们手中赢得份额。

We've invested a ton in Europe. We've, over the last 5 years, we've opened 6 new offices, doubled the amount of employees that we have there. We've added 10 million merchant locations. It's been sort of a fantastic \[indiscernible] share, as you pointed out, the share references. We've taken share from both the domestic schemes and from our global competitors. Europe is an exciting market for us.

我们在欧洲投入巨大。过去五年里，我们新设了六个办公室，员工数量翻倍，新增了一千万个商户受理点。如你所提到，我们在份额方面表现出色：不仅从本地清算网络，也从全球竞争对手处赢得了份额。欧洲对我们而言是一个激动人心的市场。

Harshita Rawat

So Chris, let's switch gears and talk about a growing contributor to Visa's growth algorithm, value-added services. So at the Investor Day, you laid out the addressable market for VAS at \$520 billion. How did you size that? And looking forward, how should we think about the VAS growth algorithm with respect to new services, penetration of existing services and geo expansion?

那么，克里斯，让我们换个话题，讨论一下对 Visa 增长算法贡献越来越大的增值服务（VAS）。在投资者日，你们将 VAS 的可服务市场规模定为 5,200 亿美元。这个数字是如何测算的？展望未来，我们应如何看待 VAS 的增长逻辑，包括新服务、现有服务的渗透率以及地域扩张？

Chris Suh

We're incredibly excited and happy and just pleased with the progress that we've made with our value-added services. The execution, the market momentum, really the commercialization, the professionalization of the business within Visa, I think we're very proud of all of that. Its \$8.8 billion in FY '24, which is about 25% of our business and it grew at 20%. So any time we have 1/4 of our business growing 20%, I think as a CFO, it brings a smile to my face, I will say.

对于我们的增值服务取得的进展，我们感到非常兴奋、满意和自豪——无论是执行力、市场动能，还是在 Visa 内部实现的商业化、专业化。2024 财年，VAS 收入达到 88 亿美元，占公司业务约 25%，并实现 20% 增长。作为 CFO，当看到四分之一的业务保持 20% 增速时，我必须说，这让我笑逐颜开。

One of the things that we did at Investor Day, and we've talked about this business for a while, but one of the things that the feedback we got from yourselves and your colleagues is that, gosh, it's exciting to see that revenue growth, but we don't really understand what it is. You talked about many, many services in there, but can you give us a little bit more disclosure and color about what constitutes value-added services?

在投资者日，我们做了一件重要的事：虽然我们此前已长期谈论 VAS，但你和同行们反馈说，营收增长固然令人振奋，却不太清楚具体包含哪些内容。你们问能否进一步披露并解释 VAS 的构成。

And so that's one of the important things that we did in our February Analyst Day. We decomposed the \$8.8 billion into 4 portfolios. We call them issuing solutions, which is services for our issuer clients; acceptance solutions, services for our acceptance clients; risk and security services, which is a little bit sort of Visa-agnostic security services like VAA that I just talked about; and the fourth being advisory and other, which is consulting, advisory, marketing services and open banking.

因此，在二月份的分析师日上，我们将 88 亿美元拆分为四大组合：发行方解决方案（面向发卡行客户）；受理方解决方案（面向收单及受理客户）；风险与安全服务（包括类似 VAA 的“网络无关”安全服务）；以及咨询及其他业务（涵盖咨询、营销服务和开放银行）。

Not only did we do that, we gave you the revenue sizing. So issuing solutions are the largest at over \$3 billion, growing in the mid-teens. And the smallest is advisory and other at \$1.3 billion, growing 30%-plus. And so again, 4 portfolios, all over \$1 billion each, all growing in the mid-teens or even in some cases, up to the 30s. And so a really sort of diverse business within itself. VAS isn't a single service, clearly.

我们还披露了各组合的收入规模：发行方解决方案超过 30 亿美元，增速中双位数；最小的是咨询及其他业务，13 亿美元，增速超过 30%。也就是说，每个组合都在 10 亿美元以上，增速均在中双位数甚至 30%以上，体现了业务的多元性。显然，VAS 并非单一服务。

And then Antony Cahill, who runs that business certainly ran that business until some announcements this week, will share with you sort of the strategies by which we're going after each of them. And important to that was the addressable opportunity that you started the question with, which is the \$500 billion-plus. In each of those 4 categories, I think the smallest TAM that we see is \$95 billion, and then each of the other 3 portfolios goes after somewhere between \$125 billion to \$150 billion of opportunity.

负责该业务的 Antony Cahill（本周有一些任命变动）也分享了我们针对各组合的策略。你最开始提到的 5,000 多亿美元 TAM 与此密切相关：四大组合中，最小的可服务市场也有 950 亿美元，其他三个各自面向 1,250 亿至 1,500 亿美元的机会。

And so enormous numbers, enormous numbers relative to the -- as big as the \$8.8 billion is, it's an enormous market opportunity. It's the revenue opportunity, right, for all the participants that play across the 200 services that constitutes these 4 portfolios. We're going to compete hard to go after all of those. We're very excited about that.

这些数字十分庞大——相比 88 亿美元的现有规模，市场潜力巨大。这是涵盖 200 项服务、所有参与者共同面临的营收机会。我们将全力以赴争取，并对此感到非常振奋。

We think about -- you asked about the growth algorithm. I think the growth algorithm, aside looking at all the sort of individual products and the TAMs that they participate in and will they -- can we take share? Can we win? Can we execute? Another sort of simplifying construct to think about our growth algorithm is around sort of 3 levers, 3 sort of categories, if you will.

你问到增长算法。除了逐一审视各产品及其 TAM、判断能否夺取份额、能否取胜执行外，我们还有一个更简化的框架，可将增长算法归为三大杠杆或三类驱动因素。

One is around enhancing Visa transactions or Visa payments. And so a significant portion of the business, more than 50%, depending on how you think about it, is close to associated with the Visa transaction, and our ability to sell and consistently sell with that with an ever-expanding geo footprint and ever-expanding sort of product footprint. Two is our ability to sell across all networks, whether it's Visa or other networks. And you think about some of the examples I was giving around fraud detection and network-agnostic fraud detection or A2A.

第一，提升 Visa 交易本身的价值。大约超过 50% 的 VAS 收入与 Visa 交易直接相关，我们通过不断扩大的地域和产品覆盖来提升连带销售能力。第二，跨所有网络销售，无论 Visa 还是其他网络。例如我提到的欺诈检测、网络无关的反欺诈服务或 A2A。

And then the third one, of course, is the value that comes from advisory and marketing services. And we have this great stable of assets around our sponsorships with NFL, with FIFA, with F1, with the Olympics that enable us to curate a very specific set of marketing services as well. We have great intelligence in our advisory business as well that's driven the 30% growth that you've seen in the advisory and other category.

第三，来自咨询和营销服务的价值。凭借 NFL、FIFA、F1、奥运会等赞助资产，我们能提供高度定制化的营销服务。同时，咨询业务的洞察力也推动咨询及其他组合实现 30% 的增速。

And so think about the growth algorithm as tied to those 3 buckets, with the huge TAM in front of us, the innovation cadence, the strong execution. I haven't even really touched on go-to-market and execution, but we've done, I think, a terrific job of really bringing specialized sellers. Antony talked about that at Investor Day as well. We have nearly 500 specialists in our regions now that co-locate work with clients every day to really bring this to life.

因此，将增长算法与这三大驱动相联系；再加上庞大的 TAM、持续的创新节奏和强有力的执行力——我们已经在销售与市场执行方面取得显著成效。Antony 在投资者日也提到，目前我们在各地区拥有近 500 名专业人员，每日与客户并肩工作，将这些服务切实落地。

The purpose of VAS at the end of the day is to help our clients succeed. And when they're successful, that's good for Visa in the -- it's a very virtuous cycle that way. It deepens our engagements. It helps them succeed. It drives more volume. And so that's why value-added services exist. And I'm really, really proud of the team for what we've been able to do.

归根结底，VAS 的目标是帮助客户成功；客户成功对 Visa 也有益，形成良性循环，深化合作、助力客户、带动更多交易量。这就是增值服务的意义所在。我对团队取得的成绩深感自豪。

Harshita Rawat

There is so much to discuss there, Chris.

克里斯，我们有太多话题可以讨论。

Chris Suh

There is a lot. Sorry, you got me all excited.

确实很多。不好意思，你让我太兴奋了。

Harshita Rawat

So in the interest of time, though, I'll switch gears and ask you about commercial cards. This is an area where you've had good growth in revenue, but the growth kind of pales in comparison to the enormous addressable market you have. There's often a perception that cost of acceptance for cards is often a sticking point, hindering the growth of cards and new payment flows. So tell us about your value proposition, the ROI you bring from businesses perspective and the resources you're putting into this business now.

为了节省时间，我想换个话题，向你请教商用卡。虽然这一领域的收入增长不错，但与庞大的可服务市场相比仍显不足。人们常认为接受卡支付的费用是一大障碍，限制了卡及新支付流的增长。请谈谈你们的价值主张、从企业角度带来的投资回报，以及目前在这项业务上投入的资源。

Chris Suh

Yes. An exciting opportunity. Again, it's -- when we talk about our business, it's our consumer payments, it's our value-added services, and then we talk about CMS. Some of you remember that is called \[indiscernible] we rebranded that. It's called Commercial and Money Movement Solutions or CMS when I refer to CMS. And commercial cards is the big -- sort of the biggest portfolio within the CMS business.

是的，这是一个令人兴奋的机会。再强调一次，当我们谈到公司的业务时，包括消费支付、增值服务，以及 CMS。有人可能记得它之前叫\[indiscernible]，后来我们重新命名为 Commercial and Money Movement Solutions，简称 CMS。而商用卡正是 CMS 业务中最大的板块。

I think of it in 2 ways. Certainly, the opportunity is enormous. We've talked about a \$200 trillion payment volume addressable market. A good portion of it is addressable today with the services that we have and a good portion of it will be addressable in the future as we continue to innovate and evolve. You could think about it as both a market element and then what we're doing to sort of outgrow the market. We are the largest player in the commercial card space. We have 40% market share, and we're growing faster than the competitors.

我从两个角度来看待它。机会无疑巨大——我们讨论的是一个 200 万亿美元的可服务支付市场。目前我们已有的服务能够覆盖其中相当部分，随着不断创新，未来可覆盖面还会扩大。既要看市场本身，也要看我们如何实现超越市场的增长。我们是商用卡领域的最大参与者，市场份额 40%，增速也领先竞争对手。

And so from -- on the 1 hand, the market conditions are what they are, and we're continuing to grow faster than the market. And so we feel okay about that. Now -- but still recognizing that we have aspirations for it to grow a lot more.

因此，一方面市场环境如此，我们仍保持高于市场的增长，这让我们感到满意。但我们也意识到，这一业务还有更大的增长潜力。

The commercial card business, in many senses, has elements that are similar to the consumer card business, meaning it's issuance, it's acceptance and it's engagement. So how can we drive all that in partnership with our partners? You could drive more cards and win share with issuers. You could drive more acceptance and then customize forms of acceptance that could drive experiences, whether that's virtual cards or vertical solutions.

在很多方面，商用卡业务与消费卡业务类似，都包含发卡、受理和使用三要素。我们需要与合作伙伴一起推动这些环节：通过更多发卡赢得份额，通过提升受理度和定制化受理方式（如虚拟卡或垂直解决方案）改善体验。

You touched on a very important question that does come up, and it's the cost of acceptance or at least the perceived cost of acceptance, which I think is a mental hurdle out there a little bit. But we can -- we've done some of this, and I think we can do a better job of educating the ecosystem around what the true cost of acceptance is because we've done studies on this.

你提到的一个关键问题是受理成本，或者说人们对受理成本的感知，我认为这在某种程度上是一道心理门槛。对此我们已展开一些工作，并且可以进一步教育整个生态，说明受理的真实成本，因为我们做过相关研究。

While the cost of accepting a card for a merchant might be, a supplier might be, let's say, 3%, the benefit from accepting cards unlocks faster collections, lower default rates, and it actually unlocks more revenue as you give clients or your customers, the merchant's customers, the ability to pay in a way that they want to be paid with in the funding source they want to use.

虽然对商户或供应商而言，接受卡支付的费用可能约为 3%，但受理卡片能够带来更快的回款、更低的违约率，并且在允许客户以其偏好的资金来源进行支付后，还能释放更多收入潜力。

相当高的价格，美国或许可以，美国以外的地方可能很难。

And so the ROI on accepting cards is much more positive than the 3%. We think probably 2x the cost. And so I think we could -- as an industry, I think we can educate a lot more in addition to continuing to advance the innovation and the use cases and the engagement. It's a long play. It's a huge TAM. We're excited about it.

因此，接受卡支付的投资回报远高于 3%，我们估计大约是成本的两倍。除了持续推动创新、拓展用例和提高参与度外，我认为整个行业还需要加大教育力度。这是一场长期战，而且有着巨大的 TAM，我们对此充满期待。

Harshita Rawat

Because we're running out of time, so for my last question for you, Visa Direct, something quite differentiated for Visa. You now have reached to 11 billion endpoints. You've augmented the value proposition with a number of investments over the years. Tell us about the evolving use cases beyond person-to-person and also is cross-border a meaningful portion of Visa Direct today?

由于时间关系，我有最后一个问题：Visa Direct——这是 Visa 非常独特的业务。你们现在已覆盖 110 亿个端点，并在过去几年通过多项投资强化了其价值主张。请介绍一下 P2P 之外正在演进的用例，以及跨境交易目前在 Visa Direct 中是否占据显著份额？

Chris Suh

That's a good question. Great question to end on. Visa Direct has been one of our most exciting growth opportunities. I talk about innovation and the cadence of innovation. It's really something that we were leading the industry on. And as you pointed out, it took a lot of work to get the infrastructure, all the different participants, as you can imagine, to get to over 11 billion endpoints, whether that's cards, wallets, accounts. To be able to move money from any point to any point, I think that's really, really exciting.

好问题，是一个很好的收尾。Visa Direct 一直是我们最令人兴奋的增长机会之一。我经常谈到创新及其节奏，在这一领域我们确实走在行业前列。正如你所说，覆盖 110 亿个端点——无论是卡片、钱包还是账户——需要构建大量基础设施并协调各类参与方。这种可以实现“任何点到任何点”资金流转的能力让人非常振奋。

P2P was sort of the use case that was predominant, and it's still sort of the bulk of the volume, I would say, but we're seeing great growth in other use cases, merchant settlement, social media and sort of gig worker payouts is a really interesting one. We think the Visa Direct could become effectively the payroll engine for gig economy workers. If you think about a lift driver or any sort of other gig economy worker, it allows companies to literally daily move money based on the volume that they drive.

P2P 曾是最主要的用例，现在仍占大部分交易量，但其他场景增长迅猛，例如商户清算、社交媒体支付，以及非常有趣的零工人员即时结算。我们认为 Visa Direct 有望成为零工经济的“薪资引擎”——比如网约车司机之类的从业者，平台可以根据其当天的收入情况实现日结。

And so there's a tremendous amount of use cases. The important thing is we've done all the work to build the infrastructure layer. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of participants, whether that's -- whether you're a domestic scheme or whether you're a global network. All the 11 billion endpoints that we talked about, all the use cases that, 65 of them today and continues to grow. And so it really is an interesting and fast growth opportunity.

这意味着还有大量用例等待挖掘。关键在于，我们已完成基础设施层的搭建；无论是本地清算网络还是全球网络，都有数百家参与者接入。覆盖 110 亿个端点，支持 65 种用例，且还在持续增长，因此这是一个极具吸引力且增长迅速的机会。

We also shared with -- one of -- the metric that we share every quarter, of course, is the transaction growth. We think that's the best metric. We also importantly pointed out at our Investor Day that those transactions come at a pretty healthy yield of \$0.09 to \$0.10 per transaction. And so even though we talked about the transactions, you could be assured that there's good financial sort of economic rationale and reasoning behind the volume growth, continues to see the expansion of use cases. Very excited about it.

我们每个季度都会披露的关键指标之一是交易增速，我们认为这最能反映业务状况。我们在投资者日上还特别强调，每笔 Visa Direct 交易可贡献 0.09 至 0.10 美元的可观收益。因此，在交易量快速增长的同时，也具备良好的经济回报，用例不断扩张，让人倍感振奋。

Harshita Rawat

I really enjoyed the conversation, Chris. This is great. Thank you so much for joining us today.

克里斯，我非常享受这次对话，内容精彩。非常感谢你今天的参与。

Chris Suh

Thank you so much.

非常感谢。

2025-05-28 Visa Inc. (V) Bernstein's 41st Annual Strategic Decisions Conference (Transcript)

2025-05-28 Visa Inc. (V) Bernstein's 41st Annual Strategic Decisions Conference (Transcript)

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