2025-07-18 American Express Company (AXP) Q2 2025 Earnings Call Transcript
American Express Company (NYSE:AXP) Q2 2025 Earnings Conference Call July 18, 2025 8:30 AM ET
Company Participants
Christophe Y. Le Caillec - Chief Financial Officer
Kartik Ramachandran - Corporate Participant
Stephen Joseph Squeri - Chairman & CEO
Conference Call Participants
Brian D. Foran - Truist Securities, Inc., Research Division
Craig Jared Maurer - Unidentified Company
Financial Technology Partners LP - Unidentified Company
Cristopher David Kennedy - William Blair & Company L.L.C., Research Division
Donald James Fandetti - Wells Fargo Securities, LLC, Research Division
Erika Najarian - UBS Investment Bank, Research Division
Jeffrey David Adelson - Morgan Stanley, Research Division
Mark Christian DeVries - Deutsche Bank AG, Research Division
Mihir Bhatia - BofA Securities, Research Division
Moshe Ari Orenbuch - TD Cowen, Research Division
Richard Barry Shane - JPMorgan Chase & Co, Research Division
Ryan Matthew Nash - Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., Research Division
Sanjay Harkishin Sakhrani - Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division
Terry Ma - Barclays Bank PLC, Research Division
Operator
主持人
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome to the American Express Q2 2025 Earnings Call. \[Operator Instructions] As a reminder, today's call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to our host, Head of Investor Relations, Mr. Kartik Ramachandran. Thank you. Please go ahead.
各位女士、先生，感谢耐心等待。欢迎参加 American Express 2025 财年第 2 季度财报电话会议。\[操作员指令] 温馨提示，本次会议正在录音。我现在将会议移交给我们的主持人、投资者关系主管 Kartik Ramachandran 先生。谢谢，请开始。
Kartik Ramachandran
Thank you, Dana, and thank you all for joining today's call. As a reminder, before we begin, today's discussion contains forward-looking statements about the company's future business and financial performance. These are based on management's current expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties. Factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these statements are included in today's presentation slides and in our reports on file with the SEC.
感谢你，Dana，也感谢各位参加今天的电话会议。提醒各位，在我们开始之前，今天的讨论包含关于公司未来业务和财务表现的前瞻性声明。这些声明基于管理层当前的预期，存在风险和不确定性。导致实际结果与这些声明存在重大差异的因素已列于今日的演示文稿以及我们提交给 SEC 的报告中。
The discussion today also contains non-GAAP financial measures. The comparable GAAP financial measures are included in this quarter's earnings materials as well as the earnings materials for the prior periods we discussed. All of these are posted on our website at ir.americanexpress.com. We'll begin today with Steve Squeri, Chairman and CEO, who will start with some remarks about the company's progress and results. And then Christophe Le Caillec, Chief Financial Officer, will provide a more detailed review of our financial performance. After that, we'll move to a Q\&A session on the results with both Steve and Christophe. With that, let me turn it over to Steve.
今天的讨论还包含非 GAAP 财务指标。可比的 GAAP 财务指标已包含在本季度财报材料以及我们讨论过的前期财报材料中。所有这些材料均已发布在我们的网站 ir.americanexpress.com 上。今天我们将先请董事长兼首席执行官 Steve Squeri 发表有关公司进展和业绩的简要讲话，随后由首席财务官 Christophe Le Caillec 对我们的财务表现进行更详细的回顾。之后，我们将进入问答环节，由 Steve 和 Christophe 回答有关业绩的问题。接下来，我把话筒交给 Steve。
Stephen Joseph Squeri
Thank you, Kartik, and good morning, everybody, and thanks for joining us on a beautiful Friday morning here in the summer. So thank you. We had another strong quarter. Revenues reached a record \$17.9 billion, up 9% year-over-year. Earnings per share, \$4.08, up 17%, excluding last year's gain from the sale of Accertify. Total Card Member spending was up 7%, which was consistent with the pattern we've seen this year. While spend in some of the travel categories like airlines and lodging was softer overall, spending was a quarterly record.
感谢你，Kartik，各位早上好，感谢大家在这美好的夏日周五清晨加入我们。谢谢。我们又度过了一个强劲季度：收入创纪录达到 179 亿美元，同比增长 9%。若剔除去年出售 Accertify 所获收益，每股收益为 4.08 美元，同比增长 17%。持卡人总支出增长 7%，与今年以来的趋势一致。尽管航空、住宿等部分旅行类别的消费整体略显疲软，季度总支出仍创历史新高。
Based on our strong performance year-to-date, we are reaffirming our full-year revenue growth and EPS guidance that we provided in January. Last month, we received the results of the Fed's annual CCAR process, which set our preliminary stress capital buffer requirement at the lowest permissible level of 2.5%. The results once again demonstrated that we had the lowest projected credit card loss and highest profitability rates under the Fed stress test among all banks subject to CCAR.
鉴于年初至今的强劲表现，我们重申今年 1 月提供的全年收入增长和每股收益指引。上月，我们收到美联储年度 CCAR 评估结果，将我们的初步压力资本缓冲要求设定在 2.5% 的最低允许水平。评估再次显示，在所有参加 CCAR 的银行中，我们在美联储压力测试下的预计信用卡损失最低、盈利率最高。
These results were a testament to the earnings power of our resilient business model and our strong capital position. Looking ahead, we're very excited about the upcoming refresh of our U.S. Consumer and Business Platinum Cards this fall. The competition for premium customers, while always intense, has been especially heated for over a decade. And it's been a very good thing for our customers, for the category and for us. In fact, the past decade has been one of the very best in terms of growing our premium card portfolios and scaling our Card Member base.
这些结果印证了我们韧性商业模式的盈利实力和稳健的资本状况。展望未来，我们对今秋即将焕新的美国个人及商务白金卡感到十分期待。高端客户竞争历来激烈，过去十余年尤为白热化，这对客户、对行业、对我们都大有裨益。事实上，过去十年是我们扩张高端卡组合、壮大持卡人基础的最佳时期之一。
As the industry leader in premium cards, we benefit from the strong interest in the category. The total addressable market is growing at a healthy rate globally, driven by several factors, including our own value proposition innovations, the investments of competitors and generational shifts in the appeal of premium products. As a result, the basis of competition has shifted, especially among affluent consumers away from cashback and no-fee products and towards partner-added value access, experiences and superior customer service where we do excel.
作为高端卡行业的领导者，我们受益于市场对该品类的浓厚兴趣。在我们自身价值创新、竞争对手投入以及代际消费偏好转向高端产品等多重因素推动下，全球可服务市场正以健康速度扩张。由此，竞争焦点也出现转移，特别是在富裕消费群体中，从现金返还与无年费产品转向合作权益、体验和卓越客户服务——这些正是我们的强项。
We believe we can continue to lead in this space as the category and competitive interest continue to grow, but let me tell you why. To start with, we've led the premium card category for over 40 years. We achieved that position by creating a multifaceted membership-focused business model, which includes a wide range of assets that set us apart and when taken together, are very difficult to replicate. To build on our success, we've increased our focus on the premium space over the last several years, strategically invested in refreshing our products regularly all around the world.
随着该品类和竞争热度的持续提升，我们相信自己能够继续领跑。原因何在？首先，我们已在高端卡领域领先逾 40 年。我们通过构建以会员为中心的多元化商业模式取得领先，该模式整合了众多使我们与众不同的资产，整体上难以复制。为再接再厉，过去数年我们更加聚焦高端领域，在全球范围内战略性地加大产品定期焕新投入。
Our refreshed strategy focuses on enriching our value propositions with more benefits and offerings in areas of our customers -- the areas that our customers value most at a price point that delivers outstanding value.
我们焕新的战略重点是在客户最看重的领域，以能够提供卓越价值的价格，为我们的价值主张增添更多福利和产品。
A key element of this strategy is our ability to attract a growing number of premier partners who fund offerings to gain access to our large-scale high-spending customer base.
这一战略的关键要素之一，是我们能够吸引数量日益增长的顶级合作伙伴，他们出资提供权益，以接触我们规模庞大、消费能力强的客户群。
Beyond the individual product value propositions, we're also constantly evolving our suite of experiences and benefits that set the competitive standard, giving our Card Member access to over 27,000 of the most sought-after restaurants, wineries and other venues through Resy and Tock.
除了各个产品的价值主张之外，我们也在不断完善我们的体验和福利组合，以树立行业竞争标杆，并通过 Resy 和 Tock 为持卡人提供通往 27,000 多家最受欢迎的餐厅、酒庄及其他场所的访问权限。
The largest airport lounge network in the industry, which includes 30 proprietary Centurion lounges today with more on the way as well as access to all Delta lounges, exclusive experiences across sports, fashion and entertainment and a wide range of benefits at over 2,600 premium hotels and resorts worldwide. This strategy has worked especially well for us. For example, in each of the recent refreshes we've done for our U.S. Consumer Gold, Delta and Hilton Cards over the last 2 years, customer demand has increased, driving double-digit account growth.
我们拥有业内最大的机场贵宾室网络，目前包括 30 家自有 Centurion 贵宾室（未来还将增加）以及所有 Delta 贵宾室的使用权限；还提供覆盖体育、时尚和娱乐的独家体验，并在全球 2,600 多家高端酒店和度假村提供广泛福利。该战略成效显著。例如，在过去两年对美国消费者 Gold 卡、Delta 卡和 Hilton 卡进行的每一次焕新，都推动了客户需求增长，带来两位数的账户增长。
Revenue growth in each of the 3 portfolios is up over 30% with card fee revenues up at least 60% and spend retention remains very high at 98%, and we've seen no meaningful change after the refreshes. Additionally, the high credit quality of the new customers we're bringing in has helped us widen the gap between our credit metrics and the rest of the industry. As we look ahead to our U.S. Platinum launches, you can expect to see the same formula, providing the best premium experience to Card Members with more differentiated benefits and more world-class partners joining us to offer Card Members more value that substantially exceeds the annual fee.
这三大组合的收入增长均超过 30%，其中卡费收入增长至少 60%；消费保持率依旧高达 98%，焕新后并未出现显著变化。此外，我们吸纳的新客户信用质量较高，帮助我们进一步扩大了信用指标与行业平均水平之间的差距。展望即将推出的美国白金卡焕新，您可以期待同样的成功模式：为持卡人提供最佳高端体验、更具差异化的权益，并吸引更多世界级合作伙伴，共同为持卡人带来远超年费的价值。
Longer term, when you combine our proven product refresh strategy with our global premium customer base at scale, our network of world-class partners, our lifestyle-orientated membership defined brand and an addressable market that is growing at a healthy annual rate globally, especially in key areas we're focused on the premium sector and younger consumers. These are all the reasons why we believe we have a long runway for growth and can sustain our momentum in our leadership in the premium space going forward.
从长期来看，将我们成熟的产品焕新战略、全球规模化的高端客户基础、世界级合作伙伴网络、以生活方式为导向的会员品牌，以及在全球范围内（尤其是我们聚焦的高端领域和年轻消费者）保持健康年增长率的可服务市场结合在一起，就可看到我们拥有充足的增长跑道，并能够在未来保持在高端领域的领先势头。
I'll now turn it over to Christophe to provide more detail on the second quarter results.
接下来我将把时间交给 Christophe，为大家详细介绍第二季度的业绩。
Christophe Y. Le Caillec
Thanks, Steve, and good morning, everyone. Let me start with the highlights for the quarter on Slide 2. As Steve noted, we reported revenue growth of 9% and earnings per share of \$4.08, up 17%, excluding the gain from Accertify last year. On Slide 2, you'll see a list of several notable developments in the quarter. We've selected these highlights because they are great indicators of the progress we're making towards our long-term strategy across key areas of the business, like technology, partnerships or products.
谢谢你，Steve，大家早上好。让我从第 2 张幻灯片开始回顾本季度的亮点。正如 Steve 提到的，我们报告的收入增长 9%，每股收益为 4.08 美元，若剔除去年出售 Accertify 的收益，同比增长 17%。在第 2 张幻灯片上，您将看到本季度的几项显著进展。这些亮点很好地体现了我们在技术、合作伙伴关系和产品等关键业务领域推进长期战略所取得的成绩。
Before we get into the detail of this quarter's results, let me step back for a moment to reflect on what the trends from this quarter indicate. When you look at our performance across spend, transactions, demand for new cards, retention and credit in the context of the significant macroeconomic and geopolitical developments of the past few months, what you see is remarkable resilience across our customer base.
在深入讨论本季度业绩细节之前，我想先退一步，思考这些趋势所传递的信息。在过去几个月重大宏观经济和地缘政治事件的背景下，观察我们的消费额、交易量、新卡需求、留存率及信贷表现，可以看出我们的客户基础展现出非凡的韧性。
And why there may be a bit of prudence around the edges, this performance indicates the strength of our business model and strategy. Turning to billed business trends. At the overall level, spend was consistent with Q1, up 7% for the quarter. Goods and services spending, which accounts for over 70% of our business continue to grow at a similar pace to Q1. T\&E growth was down a bit versus Q1, driven by softer airline and lodging spend, while restaurant spending continued to be very strong, up 8% FX-adjusted. Our fastest-growing cohorts kept up the momentum.
尽管整体环境略显谨慎，这一表现仍体现了我们商业模式与战略的强大。接下来谈谈账单业务趋势。整体而言，本季度总消费额与第一季度保持一致，同比增长 7%。占业务超过 70% 的商品与服务类消费继续以与 Q1 相似的速度增长。受航空和住宿消费走软影响，差旅娱乐类增长较 Q1 略有放缓；餐饮消费依旧强劲，经汇率调整后增长 8%。我们增速最快的客群继续保持动能。
In the U.S. consumer business, millennial spend was up 10% and Gen Z spend was growing around 40%, though starting from a smaller base. And our international business continued to grow in double digits, up 12% FX-adjusted in the quarter. Transaction growth was up 9% is another indicator of strong customer engagement and is largely consistent with what we've been seeing over the past few quarters. We acquired 3.1 million new cards in Q2 within the range of recent quarters. We sometimes get asked how we can sustain this space.
在美国消费者业务中，千禧一代消费额增长 10%，Z 世代消费额增速约 40%，尽管基数较小。我们的国际业务也保持两位数增长，本季度经汇率调整后增长 12%。交易量增长 9%，再次显示出客户参与度之高，与过去几个季度的表现基本一致。第二季度我们新发卡 310 万张，处于近期季度区间内。有人会问我们如何维持这一速度。
Starting this quarter, we are breaking out the number of cards we acquired by segment. As you can see, we've acquired about 1.5 million new cards per quarter in the U.S. consumer business over the past few quarters. When you compare that to industry-wide new account originations, even among customers with FICO scores above 660, it's a relatively small share, indicating continued runway for growth. Turning to balance growth and credit. Loans and Card Member receivables increased 6% year-over-year FX-adjusted, growing at a similar pace to billed business.
从本季度开始，我们按细分领域披露新发卡数量。如您所见，过去几个季度美国消费者业务每季新发卡约 150 万张。与全行业的新账户开立量相比，即便只看 FICO 评分高于 660 的客户，这一占比仍相对较小，说明仍有可观的增长空间。再看余额增长和信贷情况：贷款及持卡人应收款经汇率调整后同比增长 6%，与账单业务增速相近。
This quarter's results at about a 1 percentage point impact from the held-for-sale portfolios that we previously closed. Our premium products continue to be the primary driver of that growth. with our Pay Over Time and co-brand portfolios driving around 80% of growth in Card Member revolving loans in the quarter. Our growth in premium products over the past few years has further strengthened the credit quality of our portfolio, resulting in very strong credit performance. Q2 delinquency and write-off rates remained low with delinquency rates flat to Q1, while write-off rates declined.
本季度的业绩受到此前已关闭的待售投资组合约 1 个百分点的影响。我们的高端产品继续成为这一增长的主要驱动力，其中 Pay Over Time 和联名卡组合在本季度贡献了约 80% 的持卡人循环贷款增长。过去几年高端产品的增长进一步提升了我们资产组合的信贷质量，带来了非常强劲的信贷表现。第二季度逾期率和冲销率依旧维持低位，逾期率与第一季度持平，冲销率则有所下降。
Our strong credit performance is remarkable across all age groups. In fact, the delinquency rate for our U.S. millennial and Gen Z customers are not only better than the industry average for those age groups, but they are also nearly 40% better than the industry average for older age groups. The strength of our premium model also holds in a stressed environment, as demonstrated by the Fed CCAR results, which show that we have the highest ROA and lowest credit card loss rate across all banks subject to the stress test. Total provision expense was \$1.4 billion for the quarter, which includes a reserve build of \$222 million reflecting growth in loan volume and a worse macroeconomic outlook. As a reminder, there's scenarios used in the reserve model at the end of Q1 did not incorporate the changes in the outlook that we started to see in early April.
我们的优异信贷表现横跨所有年龄层。事实上，美国千禧一代和 Z 世代客户的逾期率不仅优于同龄组的行业平均水平，而且还比年龄更高组别的行业平均水平好近 40%。美联储 CCAR 结果显示，在受压测的所有银行中，我们拥有最高的资产回报率（ROA）和最低的信用卡损失率，证明了我们的高端模式在压力环境下亦同样强劲。本季度总拨备费用为 14 亿美元，其中包括 2.22 亿美元的准备金计提，反映了贷款规模增长和宏观经济前景恶化。提醒一下，第一季度末拨备模型中使用的情景并未纳入我们在 4 月初开始观察到的前景变化。
Turning to revenue on Slide 14. I'll hit on a few of the key points. FX-adjusted revenue growth was 9% both for the quarter as well as for the first 6 months of the year. We continue to see strong momentum in net card fees, which reached record levels and were up 20% FX-adjusted again this quarter. The exceptional growth we've seen in card fees over the past several years averaging 17% per year since 2019 really speaks to our strategy as we've increased our focus on the premium space.
转到第 14 页的收入部分，我要强调几个关键点。本季度以及今年前 6 个月，经汇率调整后的收入增长均为 9%。我们在净卡费收入上继续看到强劲动能，本季度经汇率调整后再次增长 20%，并创下历史新高。自 2019 年以来，卡费收入平均每年增长 17%，这种卓越增长充分说明了随着我们进一步聚焦高端领域，所采取战略的有效性。
This is the result of, first, acquiring new customers onto fee-based products, then driving strong retention of our customer base. And finally, consistently increasing value through product refreshes and pricing accordingly. The result is a net card fee line that has more than doubled since 2019. Taking a look next at our premium lending business. Net interest income grew at a double-digit pace against this quarter. One question we sometimes get is around the drivers of our strong growth in NII over the past several years.
这首先得益于将新客户引入收费产品，然后推动现有客户群保持高留存率，最后通过产品焕新与相应定价不断提升价值。其结果是，净卡费收入自 2019 年以来已增长逾一倍。接下来看看我们的高端信贷业务。本季度净利息收入实现两位数增长。过去几年 NII 强劲增长的驱动因素是我们经常被问到的问题之一。
Starting this quarter, we've aimed to give you a picture of how both volume and margin have led to this growth. The takeaway here is that since 2019, a bit more than half of the increase in NII has come from balance sheet growth. This volume growth has been about the same as growth in Card Member spending. The reason that NII has grown faster than volumes is because we've increased the margin generated on these balances. We have achieved that margin expansion by improving pricing for risk by rolling out more lending features, especially across our historically painful charge card products and by growing our deposit business.
从本季度开始，我们希望向大家展示规模和利差如何共同推动这一增长。要点是，自 2019 年以来，NII 增量中稍超过一半来自资产负债表规模的扩张。这一规模增长与持卡人消费增长大体保持同步。NII 增速快于规模增速，是因为我们提升了这些余额所产生的利差。我们通过更精准的风险定价、推出更多信贷功能（尤其在过去表现欠佳的签账卡产品上），以及扩大存款业务，实现了利差提升。
Most importantly, we've achieved this growth while maintaining very low credit risk. In fact, widening the gap to peers. And looking ahead, we believe we have a long runway for growth in our premium lending business. To sum up our revenue performance, we feel good about the momentum we have halfway through the year with the overall revenue growth tracking in line with our full year guidance.
最重要的是，我们在保持极低信贷风险的同时实现了这一增长，事实上，与同行的差距也在扩大。展望未来，我们相信高端信贷业务仍拥有广阔的增长跑道。总结我们的收入表现，今年已经过半，我们对目前的动能感到满意，总体收入增速与全年指引保持一致。
Let's turn to expense performance on Slide 18. If you think about the way we manage the expense base, we generally expect VCE to grow a bit faster than revenue as a result of the mix shift towards premium products and the investment we make in products to drive acquisition, engagement and strong credit outcomes. At the same time, we look to drive leverage from marketing and OpEx over time as we generate efficiencies and economy of scale. That continues to be how you should think about our expense base for the full year.
现在请看第18页的费用表现。如果考虑我们管理费用基准的方式，由于产品结构向高端产品转移以及我们在产品上进行的投资以推动获客、参与度和稳健的信贷结果，我们通常预期 VCE 增长将略快于收入。同时，随着效率提升和规模经济的实现，我们希望在营销和运营支出方面逐步产生杠杆效应。这仍然是您在全年思考我们费用基准时应采取的方式。
In Q2, VCE expenses grew a bit faster than revenue and marketing grew in the mid-single digits. OpEx excluding Accertify was up 9% in the quarter, a bit higher than our expectation coming into the year. The year-over-year growth is predominantly driven by investment in our enterprise risk management capabilities and technology as the company scales. Looking ahead, for the full year, we expect OpEx growth to be in the mid-single digits versus last year except Accertify, predominantly driven by the weaker dollar.
在第二季度，VCE 费用增速略高于收入，而营销费用增长中个位数。剔除 Accertify 后的运营支出在本季度增长 9%，略高于我们年初的预期。同比增长主要受到我们在企业风险管理能力和技术方面的投资推动，以配合公司的规模扩大。展望全年，除 Accertify 外，我们预计运营支出将同比增长中个位数，主要由美元走弱所推动。
As you think about the ability of our business model to drive expense leverage, I'd note that since 2023, we have driven 4 points of operating leverage with operating expenses as a percentage of revenue down from 25% in 2023 to 21% this quarter.
在评估我们商业模式在控制费用方面的杠杆作用时，请注意，自 2023 年以来，我们已实现了 4 个百分点的经营杠杆，使运营费用占收入的比例从 2023 年的 25% 降至本季度的 21%。
Moving on to capital. Our CET1 ratio was 10.6%, within our 10% to 11% target range. We returned $2 billion of capital to our shareholders, including $0.6 billion of dividends and $1.4 billion of share repurchases. In Q1, we increased our dividend by 17%. Based on the CCAR results, our preliminary stress capital buffer requirement remains at 2.5%.
再来看资本情况。我们的 CET1 比率为 10.6%，处于 10% 至 11% 的目标区间内。本季度我们向股东返还了 20 亿美元资本，其中 6 亿美元为股息，14 亿美元为股票回购。在第一季度，我们将股息提高了 17%。根据 CCAR 结果，我们的初步压力资本缓冲要求仍为 2.5%。
The lowest prescribed level, allowing us to continue executing our disciplined capital management strategy while returning excess capital to our shareholders. Our business continues to generate very strong returns with an ROE of 36% in the quarter, providing us with capital flexibility.
这是规定的最低水平，使我们能够继续执行严格的资本管理策略，同时向股东返还多余资本。本季度我们的业务继续创造强劲回报，股本回报率（ROE）为 36%，为我们提供了充足的资本灵活性。
That brings me to our 2025 guidance. We're now halfway through the year, having delivered 9% FX-adjusted revenue growth and EPS of $7.71. Trends across the business have been largely stable. While there continues to be uncertainty in how the coming quarters will play out, we have increased confidence in our path forward. As a result, we are reaffirming our full year guidance of revenue growth of 8% to 10% and earnings per share between $15 and $15.50.
接下来谈谈我们的 2025 年指引。年已过半，我们实现了经汇率调整后 9% 的收入增长和每股收益 7.71 美元。各项业务趋势整体保持稳定。尽管未来几个季度的情况仍存在不确定性，我们对前景的信心有所增强。因此，我们重申全年收入增长 8% 至 10%、每股收益 15 至 15.50 美元的指引。
With that, I'll turn the call back over to Kartik, and we'll take your questions.
接下来，我把电话交还给 Kartik，我们将回答大家的问题。
Kartik Ramachandran
Thank you, Christophe. Before we open up the lines for Q\&A, I will ask those in the queue to please limit yourself to just one question. Thank you for your cooperation. And with that, the operator will now open up the line for questions. Operator?
谢谢你，Christophe。在我们开始问答环节之前，我请在队列中的各位每人仅提一个问题。感谢您的配合。接下来，请接线员开放问答线路。接线员？
Question-and-Answer Session
问答环节
Operator
\[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from Sanjay Sakhrani of KBW.
\[接线员指令] 我们的第一个问题来自 KBW 的 Sanjay Sakhrani。
Sanjay Harkishin Sakhrani
Steve, Christophe, I know billed business trends have been pretty resilient in the face of this uncertainty on the macro side. I'm just curious how you guys are planning for maybe just the intermediate term on spending trends. I assume it's stable. But what gets things going? I know SMB has been sort of the hardest hit, airline spend as well. And if I could just ask on that same vein on SMB. Maybe you could just address that Amazon portfolio loss and sort of how we should think about how that plays into SMB.
Steve、Christophe，我知道在宏观不确定性的背景下，账单业务趋势表现得相当稳健。我想了解一下你们在中期支出趋势方面的规划。我假设趋势是稳定的，但推动因素是什么？我知道中小企业（SMB）受到的打击最大，航空支出也是如此。如果可以的话，我想在关于 SMB 的话题上再问一下——你们是否可以谈谈与 Amazon 投资组合相关的流失，以及我们应该如何看待这一点对 SMB 的影响？
Stephen Joseph Squeri
So I think -- look, I think the -- we're just planning for it to continue to be consistent as it is. And I don't know what gets it going. I'm not sure anybody really knows what gets it going. We live in uncertain times, but I think people are continuing to live their lives. And what we're seeing right now is very consistent spending. You're seeing a little bit of a slowdown in airline, not necessarily front of the cabin.
所以我认为——我们只是计划让趋势像现在一样保持一致。我不知道是什么会推动它增长，我也不确定有没有人真正知道是什么会推动它增长。我们生活在一个充满不确定性的时代，但人们仍在继续过着自己的生活。目前我们观察到的消费行为非常稳定。航空方面你会看到一些放缓，但不一定是前舱乘客在减少。
You're seeing a little bit of a slowdown in lodging, but again, not necessarily on the high transactions, which are up. But goods and services continue to be resilient, and our Gen-Zs and our millennials continue to be consistent. So -- and obviously, we've said all along, it really had nothing to do with the stock market when the stock market was all the way down, people continue to spend what they're spending now; the stock market is high, people will continue to spend what they are now.
你会看到住宿方面也有些放缓，但高价值交易仍在增长。商品和服务支出仍然具有韧性，我们的 Z 世代和千禧一代用户的消费行为仍然稳定。而且我们之前一直强调，这种趋势与股市没有太大关系——当股市大幅下跌时，人们还是照样消费；而现在股市很高，人们依然维持着现在的消费水平。
So we're just going to ride this out as it is, and I think it's going to continue to be very, very consistent. In terms -- and look, in terms of the Amazon portfolio and other portfolios that happened, Amazon and Lowe's as well, they're both good card accepting merchants, and we're going to continue to do business with them. But sometimes, things just don't work out economically. And I think one of the things that we've seen in this space, unlike in the T\&E space is you've seen portfolios move in retail. I mean it's not an unusual thing to see portfolios move in retail.
所以我们就按目前的节奏继续走下去，我认为趋势会继续保持高度一致。至于 Amazon 的那部分投资组合，还有其他类似的例子，比如 Lowe's，他们都是接受我们信用卡的优质商户，我们会继续与他们保持业务往来。但有时候，在经济层面就是没法达成一致。而且我认为，零售领域跟 T\&E（旅游和娱乐）领域不一样，你经常会看到投资组合更换，这是很常见的事情。
And for us, it just -- it really just wasn't working out and that's just the way it is. I don't think it really is going to have much of an impact from an SMB perspective for us, either one of those portfolios. I think from SMB, I think SMBs are a little bit more circumspect, I think, than the consumers are right now. And so not buying maybe as much inventory and maybe not -- and not spending as much.
而对我们来说，这些组合就是经济上不太可行，也只能如此了。我不认为这些变化会对我们的中小企业业务（SMB）产生什么实质性的影响。就 SMB 而言，我认为他们现在比消费者更谨慎，可能不会囤太多库存，也不会有太多支出。
竞争免不了，要有自己独特的东西。
And so I think they're going to need probably a little bit more assurance from an economic perspective longer term for that to get going. So -- but having said all that, I think from an SMB perspective, while billings are probably not where we want them to be, our revenue from this segment continues to be strong. Our credit metrics continue to be strong and our lending book is strong and our fee- based business here is strong. So overall, we're happy with SMB. We'd like to see more billings.
所以我认为他们可能需要更多长期的经济层面信心，才能重新活跃起来。但话虽如此，从 SMB 的角度来说，尽管账单量可能还没达到我们理想的水平，但该板块的收入依然稳健。我们的信用指标表现良好，贷款资产组合也强劲，基于费用的业务同样表现良好。整体而言，我们对 SMB 业务还是满意的。当然，我们希望看到更高的账单量。
Christophe Y. Le Caillec
Sanjay, just add one thing in terms of the billing and the outlook. One of the things that provides support to our billing growth is the strength of our new account origination. And you certainly saw that we added a little bit more disclosures and details on our new cards acquired and 3.1 million new cards this quarter and 1.5 million in the U.S. consumer. So we see a lot of stability there. And with the upcoming launch of the Platinum Card, that gives us confidence in our ability to originate new cards in the balance of the year and that will certainly support the billing growth.
Sanjay，我再补充一点关于账单增长和前景的内容。支持我们账单增长的一个重要因素是新账户的开卡能力。本季度我们新增了 310 万张新卡，其中 150 万张来自美国消费者，我们也在披露中提供了更多细节。从这些数据看，业务非常稳定。而即将推出的 Platinum Card 也让我们对下半年新增卡的能力充满信心，这无疑将进一步推动账单增长。
Operator
The next question is coming from Ryan Nash of Goldman Sachs.
下一个问题来自高盛的 Ryan Nash。
Ryan Matthew Nash
So Steve, you spent a decent amount of time talking about the refresh of the U.S. Platinum that's coming in the fall. We obviously had a refresh from Chase. Citi is coming out with a new card, obviously, \[ cards ] coming after that part of the market. Now I know that it's always competitive, but how do you think about the risk of too many players going after the same customer, many of them are copying your value proposition? And inevitably, what do you think this means for pricing power over time?
Steve，你刚才花了不少时间讲了即将在秋季推出的美国白金卡新版。我们都知道 Chase 已经做过一次刷新，Citi 也即将推出新卡，显然其他发卡机构也在追逐这个细分市场。我知道竞争一直都存在，但你如何看待太多玩家追逐同一类客户的风险，尤其是许多公司都在复制你们的价值主张？从长期来看，这是否会削弱你们的定价能力？
Stephen Joseph Squeri
May the best company win. That's what I think. Look, I think that it really hasn't -- it's not all that different. I mean remember, Citi took a hiatus for a while. I mean -- when you think about this space over the last 10 years, it's been extremely competitive. And you saw the Chase came out, it was like 10, 11 years ago. And since that time, we've done 3 refreshes, and Citi was in the market and then they popped out, now they're back in.
愿最优秀的公司胜出。这就是我的看法。说实话，情况并没有太大不同。你要记得，Citi 其实中间曾经退出过一段时间。从过去十年来看，这个领域一直都极具竞争性。你看到 Chase 大概是在 10 或 11 年前进入这一市场。自那时以来，我们已经做了三次产品刷新，而 Citi 也曾参与竞争，然后退出，现在又回来了。
So -- and you have Capital One. But I think what's happened is, this focus by the banks in general and us on this premium space has been good for customers. I think it's been good overall for the industry. And if you look at the track record, it's been really good for us. I think since our last refresh, we pretty much doubled our base. I think what the industry has proven is that consumers will pay for value. And as long as you're delivering value, I think you still have that pricing power.
还有 Capital One。但我认为现在这种银行，尤其是我们在高端卡市场的聚焦，其实对消费者是件好事，对整个行业也是好事。从我们的历史表现来看，这对我们也非常有利。自上次产品刷新以来，我们的用户基数几乎翻了一番。行业已经证明，只要能提供真正的价值，消费者是愿意为之付费的。只要你继续提供价值，我认为定价能力仍然存在。
I mean I think it's all about -- I think when you look at who we're all acquiring here and we're acquiring lots of Gen-Zs and lots of millennials with these cards. They are very value conscious, and they look at this, and they basically say, "Look, for whatever the fee may be, I'm getting the value." And if they don't feel they get the value from the Platinum Card, they can look at the Gold Card, and they get that. So I think it's good for the industry. I think pricing power is much more tied to the value you provide.
关键还是要看你能不能让客户觉得物有所值。我们现在新增了很多 Z 世代和千禧一代用户。他们非常注重价值，他们会看这张卡，问自己：“无论年费是多少，我有没有拿到应得的价值？”如果他们觉得 Platinum 卡不合适，还可以选择 Gold 卡。所以从这个角度看，我认为对行业是健康的。定价能力更多是由你能提供的价值决定的。
And I think, as I said before, as long as we continue to do what we're doing, which is, I believe, offer the best product in the industry and leverage the assets that we do have, which some of them I'm -- obviously, I'm not going to go through again, but I mentioned in my opening remarks, I think we're going to be -- continue to be in good shape. I think for anybody in this space, complacency is a death knell, and you can't be complacent, which is why we're on a very regular cycle of refreshing these products. And anybody thinks that we're refreshing the product in response to what our competitors are doing is crazy. We have our own schedule. And I think we'll see what we see in the fall, but we feel really good about what we're going to launch on both products, consumer and small business.
正如我之前说的，只要我们继续坚持我们的战略——也就是持续提供业内最好的产品，并充分发挥我们已经拥有的各种资产（其中一些我在开场时提到过，就不再重复）——我认为我们会继续保持领先。对于这个领域里的任何公司来说，满足现状就是致命的。所以我们会按照既定节奏定期刷新产品。如果有人认为我们是在“对标竞争对手”来刷新产品，那是荒谬的。我们有自己的时间表。我相信等到秋季大家会看到成果，我们对即将推出的两款产品——面向消费者和面向中小企业的——都非常有信心。
Operator
The next question is coming from Mark DeVries of Deutsche Bank.
下一个问题来自德意志银行的 Mark DeVries。
Mark Christian DeVries
I had a related question on the coming Platinum refresh. I know you're not going to preview it now, but I was just wondering if you could just comment kind of qualitatively, should we expect the same type of meaningful step-up in added value relative to the fee that we've seen in past refreshes? And then also, how do you just think about the risk that as you do that, you're kind of asking more of the customer to both kind of track what all those incremental sources of value and engage more deeply to kind of justify the added step-up in the fee?
我有一个关于即将推出的白金卡更新的相关问题。我知道你现在不会提前披露细节，但我想请你从定性角度评论一下：我们是否可以期待与以往刷新一样，在年费提升的同时带来同等程度的显著增值？另外，你们如何看待这样的风险——即随着年费提升，你们其实是在要求客户投入更多，比如去追踪所有新增的价值来源，并在使用上更深度参与，以证明这笔费用是合理的？
Stephen Joseph Squeri
Well, I'll tell you what, if you don't tell anybody, I'll give you a preview. The -- look, I think that -- yes, look, I'm not going to get into ratios here, but what I would say is our strategy has always been to -- if we do raise the fee, it has always been to add incrementally a lot more value. In terms of -- so yes, that's the same playbook. In terms of -- as you think about the consumer, years ago when we used to do these things, we used to try and figure out how the consumer couldn't use the products and services.
这样吧，只要你不告诉别人，我就给你一点预告（笑）。好，说正经的，我不会谈具体比例，但可以说我们的策略始终是：如果我们提高年费，就一定会在价值方面带来更大幅度的提升。所以，是的，我们会延续这一策略。至于消费者的使用体验，过去我们在做类似变更时，还会想消费者会不会无法真正用上某些权益。
But what we find is we make these things really easy for consumers to use now. And we make it such that it's a wide range of value. And so while not every consumer will use 100% of the value, getting back to your second point, we have enough disparity in the price and the value that you don't need to use all the value to get the value out of the product and that's a lot of value words there.
但现在我们发现，我们把这些服务和权益设计得非常容易使用，覆盖的价值范围也很广。因此虽然不是每个客户都会使用到 100% 的权益，但回到你第二个问题，我们在价格和价值之间保持了足够的差距，客户不需要用到全部权益也能物超所值（好像我刚才用了很多“价值”这个词（笑））。
But -- and that's what we'll continue to do. And I think that one of the things that we've done here is we really have expanded over our last refresh, the set of services and benefits and premium partners that are in the product. And not every Card Member uses every benefit. But that's okay because it gives people the opportunity to pick and choose, but they do use enough of the services and the benefits that it more than outweighs whatever fee they're going to pay.
我们会继续这么做。在上一次刷新中，我们已经大幅扩展了所包含的服务、权益和高端合作伙伴范围。当然，不是每位持卡人都会用到所有权益，但这没关系，因为他们可以自由选择适合自己的，而他们实际使用的部分，已经足以抵消所支付的年费。
Christophe Y. Le Caillec
And maybe just to build on the -- how this is going to play out in the financials. The way to think about it, Mark, is that as we launch the new value proposition, you should expect to see a step-up in the cost of Card Member services. And as you know, what we do is just like we wait until the renewal anniversary of the Card Member to increase -- to move the Card Member to the new price point. So -- and then we amortize it over 12 months. So the cost of Card Member services moves kind of like immediately, and it takes maximum 2 years for the card fee benefit to flow through the P\&L. But all of that was kind of like built in our guidance, in our planning and expectations since the very beginning.
我可以补充一下这件事对财务的影响。Mark，你可以这样来看：在我们推出新的价值主张时，卡会员服务成本会出现一次性上升。正如你知道的，我们通常是在客户卡片到期续费时才调整价格点，也就是说客户是在续费周年时才进入新的费率。我们会在账面上将这些成本在 12 个月中摊销。所以卡会员服务的成本几乎是立即反映的，而年费的收入则最多需要 2 年才能完全体现在损益表中。但这些影响我们在一开始就已纳入指引、计划和预期当中。
Operator
The next question is coming from Don Fandetti of Wells Fargo.
下一个问题来自富国银行的 Don Fandetti。
Donald James Fandetti
Steve, can you talk a little bit about international in terms of your acceptance growth and how you're tracking versus your targets? And maybe a bit on the competitive dynamics. I think you generally felt like it's less competitive internationally.
Steve，你能谈谈你们在国际市场的受理网络扩展方面的进展，以及目前与既定目标相比的表现吗？还有一点关于竞争格局的问题，我记得你们通常认为国际市场的竞争相对较弱。
Stephen Joseph Squeri
Well, I don't know about less competitive. I think international has its own set of challenges and own set of regulations. I think sometimes the regulations can make it a little less -- maybe a little less interesting for certain players to get into the market. But overall, we feel really good about international. I mean, look, it's been double-digit growth. I don't know how many -- it take a couple of years after COVID. It's been double-digit growth since international really opened up again.
我不太确定说国际市场竞争更弱是否准确。其实国际市场有它自己的一整套挑战和监管要求。有时候这些监管规定可能会让某些参与者觉得这个市场“没那么有吸引力”。但整体而言，我们对国际业务的表现非常满意。看看数据，自从疫情之后各国重新开放以来，我们的国际业务一直保持着两位数增长。
And for us, we've been focusing on a small set of those. We talk about the 5 big markets that we focus on, and we've been doing really well there. We talk about our Citi strategy, and that's on track from a coverage perspective. And we continue to add millions and millions of merchants internationally, and we will continue to do that. So I think our acceptance gets better day by day. And we feel good about the progress that we've made, and we'll talk about a lot of that, I think, when we have our next Investor Day, but international continues to make great strides.
我们其实专注于其中几个关键市场。我们经常提到的五个主要市场表现都非常出色。我们也提到过与花旗的合作策略，在受理覆盖率方面正在按计划推进。我们持续在全球范围内增加数百万家商户，并将继续这样做。所以我们的受理网络每天都在改善。我们对目前取得的进展感到非常满意，在下一次投资者日活动上我们会有更多分享。总之，国际业务正在持续取得重大进展。
And I think it's ultimately a huge source of growth for us because when you look at the international markets, premium plays really well in a lot of cases, just about every market actually. Our premium products are priced higher than they are in the U.S. And I think when you look at our share internationally, it's very, very low. And the other part of that, when you look at small business, which I think there's a big opportunity for us in small business, it really is a market that's really nascent at this point. So we're very excited about international, and we're getting those growth with coverage that is still improving.
我认为国际市场最终将成为我们的一个重要增长引擎。因为从很多市场来看，高端产品在国际市场表现很好，几乎每个国家都是如此。我们的高端产品在国际上的定价甚至高于美国市场。而且你如果看我们的国际市场份额，其实还非常低。另一个方面是中小企业，这也是我们非常看好的一个机会——目前这个市场在全球范围内还处于早期阶段。因此我们对国际业务的发展感到非常兴奋，增长势头明显，同时覆盖范围也还在持续扩大。
Operator
The next question is coming from Erika Najarian of UBS.
下一个问题来自瑞银的 Erika Najarian。
Erika Najarian
I thought I'd ask the question that I've been getting. And it's that -- it's almost that you've become a victim of your success a little bit. Given your premium valuation and your previous performance, it feels like there's sort of a bearish case out there building on the stock, meaning like you've raised the bar on yourself. So what's next? And I guess the question that I have here is how do you address that? You talked a little bit, Steve, about the spend, a little bit of slowdown in airline spend, a little bit of slowdown in lodging.
我想问一个我最近经常被问到的问题——你们或许有点“成功的受害者”了。考虑到你们的高估值和过往优异表现，市场上似乎开始形成一些看空你们股票的声音，意思是说你们自己把标准抬得太高了。那么接下来怎么办？我想问的是你们如何应对这种情况？你之前提到了一些支出趋势，比如航空和住宿领域的放缓。
But obviously, you also have this Platinum refresh. So as you think about maybe spend not accelerating, how does American Express continue to deliver this 8% to 10% revenue growth, continued consistency in billed businesses, perhaps in an environment where the macro -- the underlying spend is not necessarily accelerating. And like Ryan said, all of a sudden, we have fierce competition, even fiercer competition among your peers for your natural client base?
但你们也有 Platinum 卡的刷新。在支出可能不会加速增长的背景下，American Express 要如何继续实现 8% 到 10% 的营收增长、保持账单业务的稳定性？而且如 Ryan 所说，你们自然的客户群体现在也面临更激烈的竞争了——甚至比以往更激烈？
Stephen Joseph Squeri
Well, I think we've been getting this question for a number of years now, and we've been continuing to deliver against that. But -- and again, I've been around this business a long, long time. And I'm not so sure it's much fiercer of the competition than it was. I think there may be a little bit more noise around it, people may talk about it. But when you're in the trenches, the competition is there. And I think, look, for us, we continue to deliver the EPS we need to deliver, and we continue to deliver within that revenue range.
其实这个问题我们已经被问了很多年了，而我们一直都在兑现承诺。再说一次，我在这个行业里干了很多年了，我并不觉得现在的竞争比过去更加激烈。可能现在媒体上讨论得更多、声音更大，但当你真正身处市场一线，你会发现竞争始终都在。而对我们来说，我们继续实现应有的每股收益，也持续维持在既定的营收增长区间。
And we're a hell of a lot bigger company than we were when we set these targets out. I mean when you look at this, the numbers that we're putting up year-over-year continue to be, if I may say, quite impressive. But I think for us, it all starts with the customer. And I think what people lose sight of is customers are not widgets. Customers are people that you really need to focus on, what their true needs are. You need to provide phenomenal service and you need to be there for them. And to us, customers -- we treat every customer as if it's the only customer we have.
而且我们现在比设定这些目标时已经大了很多。看看我们年复一年的表现，这些数据，说句实话，还是很让人印象深刻的。但对我们来说，一切都始于客户。我觉得人们常常忽略了，客户不是一个个“零件”，而是真正的“人”。你需要真正了解他们的核心需求，提供卓越的服务，真正站在他们身边。对我们来说，我们把每一位客户都当作我们唯一的客户来对待。
And if you ever call into our servicing center, there's quite a difference between how American Express treats their customers and how a lot of our competitors treat their customers. It is a huge difference. I think the other thing that I would say is, when you think about sort of what we're doing with this product refresh strategy, not just Platinum. We've refreshed hundreds of products over the course of the last few years, and we'll continue to refresh hundreds of products around the world.
如果你打过我们的客服热线，你会明显感受到 American Express 对客户的服务，与其他很多竞争对手是有巨大差异的。还有一点我想说的是，我们这几年推进的产品刷新策略，不只是白金卡而已。过去几年我们已经刷新了数百款产品，今后还会继续在全球范围内刷新数百款产品。
And so look, the bearish case can continue to develop, but we will continue to do what we do best, which is focus on our customers, continue to create innovative products and services and continue to make investments that are providing returns to our shareholders. So look, I mean, as I said, I've been around a long time. I think the competitive environment to me hasn't been all that much different than it's been for the last 10 years. I think there's probably a lot more press about it. But we feel it every single day, and I think it makes us a lot better.
所以那些看空的声音可以继续存在，而我们会坚持做我们最擅长的事情：专注客户，不断打造创新的产品和服务，并持续进行能够为股东创造回报的投资。正如我说的，我在这行干了很久，我觉得过去十年的竞争环境其实没有本质变化。现在媒体上报道多了不少，但我们每天都在感受着这种竞争，而且正是这种竞争，让我们变得更强。
Operator
The next question is coming from Rick Shane of JPMorgan.
下一个问题来自摩根大通的 Rick Shane。
Richard Barry Shane
I just want to follow up on Christophe's point about the timing of revenues and expenses associated with the refresh. The revenue explanation was very helpful. Can you talk about the timing of expenses associated with it? Have you pulled some of that forward in anticipation? Or should we see a step function over the next year or 2, consistent with what you're describing on the revenue side?
我想跟进一下 Christophe 刚才提到的产品刷新相关的收入和支出时点问题。你对收入的解释非常清晰。那么关于支出方面的时点安排，你能再讲讲吗？你们有没有提前计提一部分支出？或者说我们是否会在未来一到两年看到一段明显的上升区间，就像你们刚才描述的收入端那样？
Christophe Y. Le Caillec
So we haven't pulled anything either from the very beginning. This was our plan, and we plan accordingly and guided accordingly. So the -- maybe let me kind of like reiterate what I just said previously, right? So what you should expect is an increase in our cost of Card Member services after the launch of the Platinum Card, so most likely -- say in Q4. And the card fee increases will take a little bit more time to filter through the P\&L. And all in all, this will be value accretive for us and for our shareholders.
我们从一开始就没有提前确认任何支出。这些都是我们在最初就已经规划好并据此提供了指引的。所以我来重复一下我刚才说的重点：你可以预期的是，在 Platinum 卡推出之后，我们的卡会员服务成本将会上升，最可能是在第四季度体现。而年费收入的增长将在利润表中反映出来则需要更长时间。整体来看，这项刷新将在价值层面对我们和股东都是增益的。
Stephen Joseph Squeri
Yes. I mean just to say really simplistically, the expenses become -- come before the revenues here, right? Because what happens is once we relaunch, the Card Members have the ability to take advantage of those benefits on day 1. They don't get billed if there's an increase in the fee until they come up to their cycle. And those fees are recognized over a 12-month period. They're not recognized in the month that you get billed, but yet, the benefits. And that's a huge benefit to our cardholders, and it's something that we plan for and its something that we've always done.
是的，我简单说一下，支出确实会先于收入发生。因为当我们重新推出卡产品后，卡会员从第一天开始就可以享受新增的权益。而即便年费有所提高，客户也要等到自己的账单周期更新时才会被收取新费用。而且这些费用在账面上是按 12 个月摊销的，并不是在账单当月一次性确认的。但客户可以立刻开始享受服务。这对我们的卡会员来说是很大的利好，也是我们一直以来都遵循的计划。
Operator
The next question is coming from Jeff Adelson of Morgan Stanley.
下一个问题来自摩根士丹利的 Jeff Adelson。
Jeffrey David Adelson
Just wanted to focus on the airline lounges. Obviously, that's a really important part of the Amex offering. But I guess longer term, as you kind of continue to put up this really robust growth in Card Members, how do you navigate some of the concerns about lounge access and overcrowding? Is that something you'll maybe look to address in the next round of refresh?
我想聚焦一下机场贵宾室的话题。显然这是 Amex 提供的一项非常重要的服务。但随着你们的持卡人数量持续强劲增长，从长期来看，你们打算如何应对关于贵宾室拥挤的担忧？这是你们下一轮产品刷新中会考虑解决的问题吗？
And we've continued seemingly to see a step-up in competition from the likes of Chase and Capital One with their own build-out. And I think there's been more of a focus from the airlines lately to kind of build their own offering or enhance their own offering. So I guess how do you think about navigating that competition longer term and just maybe addressing the concern of overcrowding?
此外，我们确实看到像 Chase 和 Capital One 等竞争对手在建设自己贵宾室方面也有加码。而且现在很多航空公司似乎也更加注重打造或升级自己的贵宾室服务。那你们如何看待这一长期竞争趋势？以及在应对拥挤问题方面会采取哪些措施？
Stephen Joseph Squeri
Yes. I think that, look, what we've tried to do is a couple of things. Number one, we've tried to -- like a lot of the airlines have done, a lot of the other cards have done, we did this probably before people did it, but provide some priority. The other thing is we're built -- we're trying to make the lounges bigger. I think this whole lounge game has been a boom for airport authorities in terms of how many lounges they can put in. And the other thing we get innovated.
是的，我想我们确实采取了几项举措。首先，就像很多航空公司和其他发卡机构做的一样，我们其实比他们更早开始提供优先进入机制。其次，我们也在努力建设更大的贵宾室。整个贵宾室业务对机场管理方来说其实也是个机遇，他们可以在机场设置更多这样的空间。再者，我们也在推动一些创新。
Look, in Vegas, we just did what we call Sidecar, right, which is more of a small kind of -- I don't know, maybe call it a speakeasy kind of lounge where if you just want to go in for a quick drink or grab something quickly, you can do that. And I think we work really closely with our partner, Delta, in those airports where we have -- we don't have a lounge or we do have lounges together to try and move traffic around a little bit. But I think you'll continue to see more innovation here. You'll look at more expansion of existing lounges where we can get space. And you look at a strategy that looks at satellite locations so that we can handle the demand that we get.
举个例子，在拉斯维加斯我们刚推出了一种叫“Sidecar”的新概念——它更像是一种小型的、也许可以称作“微型酒吧式”的贵宾空间。如果你只是想快速进去喝杯饮料或拿点吃的，它就非常适合。我认为在那些我们与 Delta 合作的机场——无论我们有没有自己的贵宾室——我们都和他们密切合作，通过运营调整引导人流分布。此外，未来你会看到我们在这方面有更多创新，也会尽可能扩建现有贵宾室（前提是有可用空间），并推动设立卫星贵宾区，以满足不断增长的需求。
Operator
The next question is coming from Brian Foran of Truist Securities.
下一个问题来自 Truist 证券的 Brian Foran。
Brian D. Foran
So I want to ask about one other pushback I keep getting on the stock lately. And before I do, the slides you're adding like Slide 12 and 9, I think there was 16, kind of addressing key investor issues head on and giving that next level of detail. I really appreciate it, they're great. So I want to give that context to that. I think you guys have been really open and kind of sharing your thought process on these key pushbacks.
我想问一个最近在你们股票上经常听到的质疑。在提问前，我想先说一下，你们新增的那些幻灯片，比如第 12 页、第 9 页，还有第 16 页，这些直接回应投资者关键问题、并提供进一步细节的内容，我非常认可，做得很好。我也想让大家知道我是抱着这个背景来提问的。我认为你们在回应这些质疑方面确实非常开放，也乐于分享你们的思考。
So the other one I get is if you do this walk, spend volume is plus 7%, but then discount is a little lower, plus 5%. And then if you back out rewards to do discount, with rewards as a contra it's like plus 1% to 2%.And then some people are even backing out new account contribution and saying like, well, discount net of rewards, net of new accounts is actually slightly negative. And I know that's like net of 8 things and your actual revenue is growing. But maybe you could just speak to any part of that dynamic for investors who are focused on kind of the discount revenue being a little lower, the discount revenue net of rewards being a little lower still, how would you think about that? Is that a valid concern? Or is that a wrong path to go down?
现在说回问题。另一个我经常听到的质疑是，如果我们分解来看，你们的消费交易额增长了 7%，但折扣收入（discount revenue）只增长了 5%。如果再把奖励（rewards）扣除作为对冲项的话，折扣净收入只有 1% 到 2%。还有人甚至把新账户贡献也扣除掉，说“折扣减奖励、减新账户”之后，增长其实是负的。当然，我知道这其实是净掉了很多因素，你们的实际营收确实是增长的。但对于那些特别关注折扣收入、特别是扣除奖励后的折扣收入仍然偏低的投资者，你们怎么看这个问题？这是一个合理的担忧，还是一种误导性的分析路径？
同样100块的销售额，能赚多少钱可以看最终的经营利润，具体增长多少是很多经营杠杆综合的结果，关注销售额的增长是有道理的，这个增长中有多少是新客户带来的也是有道理的，但是拆解毛折扣没什么道理，毛折扣只是很多经营杠杆中的一个指标。
Stephen Joseph Squeri
Well, Christophe will answer it. But the one thing I would say is, thinking about only one component of revenue associated with rewards is not really how we think about it. We think about overall revenue associated with it, but I'll let Christophe sort of go.
这个问题我先简单回应一下，等会儿 Christophe 会详细解释。我只想说，把奖励只看作是对某一个收入组成部分的对冲，并不是我们思考问题的方式。我们看的是整个与奖励相关的综合收入情况。接下来我让 Christophe 来具体说说。
Christophe Y. Le Caillec
Brian, so the way we think about this and this type of decision and relationships between the expenses and the revenue, and we've been very transparent on it, right, probably more so than many competitors is the VCE ratio to revenue, variable customer engagement expenses as a ratio to revenue, and we've provided a lot of details and transparency on the makeup of this VCE ratio and that has been like pretty stable over the years. And as we've said, this is not an objective function for us.
Brian，我们在思考这类支出与收入之间关系时，其实一直非常透明，可能比很多竞争对手都要坦诚。我们重点关注的一个指标是 VCE（可变客户参与）支出与收入的比率，也就是“Variable Customer Engagement expenses to revenue ratio”。我们提供了大量关于这个 VCE 比率构成的细节说明，并且这个比率多年来一直相对稳定。正如我们所说，这并不是我们刻意追求的目标值。
This is an outcome. We make decisions product by product by product. And there -- here's what you should not do. You should not equate a low VCE ratio to something positive because the higher VCE ratios that we have are on our more premium, more attractive, more value-accretive products, right? Because we get a lot of that investment back in the form of efficiencies on the marketing line, in the form importantly, of credit and positive selection on the credit line.
这是一种自然的结果。我们是在产品层面一项一项地做决策。你不应该将低 VCE 比率视为一种正面信号。因为我们 VCE 比率较高的产品，往往是那些更高端、更具吸引力、能带来更多增值的产品。我们从这些产品上的投资，会通过营销效率、信用质量（包括优质客户筛选）等方面得到回报。
So the overall balance is a -- to your point, is a complicated one. We think we're really good at managing that balance and finding the optimum point to generate value, to generate growth and sustainable value for our shareholders. So I don't quite follow your math, but I think we've got a good control over that expense to revenue ratio component. We are managing it thoughtfully, and every time
所以正如你所说，这其实是一个很复杂的平衡问题。而我们非常擅长管理这个平衡点，找出既能创造价值，又能带来增长和长期回报的最佳位置。你刚才的拆分算法我不是完全认同，但我们对这个“支出与收入的比率”掌握得很牢，管理上也非常审慎，并且每次……
there's a product refresh, that's where we spend a lot of our time in finance to find the right balance. So I think we -- you shouldn't worry too much about where this is going and where it's trending. We feel that we're in a good place there.
每一次产品刷新，我们的财务团队都会投入大量时间去寻找恰当的平衡点。所以我认为你不必太担心这个比率未来会走向哪里、趋势如何。我们目前在这方面的状态非常良好。
Operator
The next question is coming from Moshe Orenbuch of TD Cowen.
下一个问题来自 TD Cowen 的 Moshe Orenbuch。
Moshe Ari Orenbuch
And apologies for going back to the competition kind of issue. But if you put together the questions from a couple of people and Steve, your answers to them, I guess, what strikes me is that this may be the first time that you're doing this U.S. Platinum refresh kind of into the teeth of a competitive environment. And you've got cross currents. Obviously, you have in the past, benefited from some of the advertising and marketing of your competitors.
不好意思我又回到“竞争”这个话题了。但如果把几位提问者的问题和你之前的回答结合起来，我的直觉是，这可能是你们首次在一个竞争环境非常激烈的时点进行美国白金卡的产品刷新。而且现在情况很复杂，一方面你们过去确实受益于一些竞争对手的大规模广告和营销投入。
And at the same time, there is this idea of kind of competing for a limited number of people. So could you -- is there a way to just talk about how you think it's going to play out this time versus others in terms of what you kind of are expecting? Any kind of things that you're thinking about that would differentiate your set of product refreshes from what you've seen from those competitors?
但另一方面，大家都在争夺一个相对有限的目标人群。所以你能不能谈谈这一次产品刷新和以往相比有何不同？你们有哪些预期？以及你们在构思这次产品更新时，是否考虑了什么差异化因素，以应对竞争对手？
Stephen Joseph Squeri
Well, I would disagree with the characterization. It's the first time we're playing into the teeth of it. Actually, we did our first -- the first Platinum refreshable -- one of the Platinum refresh we did 10 years ago, Chase just launched Sapphire with a huge, huge bang. I mean, the amount of money and the amount of press that they got with that and the -- with the intensity they went after our book, we played right into it. And the second one, we were around the same time. So I don't think it's that much different.
我不同意“这是我们首次面对激烈竞争时进行白金卡刷新”的说法。实际上，我们大概十年前做的第一次白金卡更新，当时 Chase 正在高调推出 Sapphire 卡，投入了大量的资金和宣传资源，还非常有针对性地向我们的用户群体发起攻势——那时候的竞争更激烈，我们就是在那种环境下推进的。我们第二次产品更新也是在类似的时点进行的。所以我不认为这次有什么本质不同。
And really, if you think about it right now, Citi hasn't said when. And they're coming off of not having -- not really having a product, and Chase is refreshing their product. So I think it's -- actually, if I look at it, it's probably less intense this time than it was 10 years ago because I think there was so much hype around Chase coming out with this new card versus this just being an upgrade. That's just my opinion. Having said that, I'll just go back to what I said.
再说现在的情况，Citi 并没有明确宣布何时推出产品，他们过去也不是真正有一张可与之抗衡的卡。而 Chase 这次只是做了一次产品刷新。所以从我的角度来看，这次的市场环境其实比十年前还要“温和”一些。十年前 Chase 推出的是一张全新、市场高度关注的卡片，而这次只是升级现有产品。这是我个人的观点。当然，话虽如此，我还是要回到我之前说的重点。
I think we've learned a lot, and we believe that what we're going to come out with will be more than hold its own, be very, very competitive and will continue to be innovative. And we're just going to have to wait and see and you guys are going to have to wait and see because I can't really go into more detail than that contrasting the 2. All I can do is basically say, every time we've done this, it's worked out pretty well for us. And I think it's worked out pretty well for consumers, and it's worked out well for the industry. But I just -- the characterization of this is different. I don't think that's the case at all.
我们在过去的经验中积累了很多，也相信这次我们推出的新产品不仅能应对竞争，还将具有非常强的竞争力，并继续保持创新性。至于具体细节，现在我还不能透露太多，你们得和我们一起拭目以待。我唯一能说的是：每次我们进行产品刷新，它最终的效果对我们都非常正面，对消费者也好，对整个行业也好。所以我并不认同“这次局势不同”这个说法。
Operator
The next question is coming from Mihir Bhatia of Bank of America.
下一个问题来自美国银行的 Mihir Bhatia。
Mihir Bhatia
So it is another question on this, competition in premium card space. But really, what I would like to focus maybe a little bit on is, you've talked about how the customer value propositions have changed and evolved. But how has this impacted the acquisition strategies? Is it becoming more expensive to attract these fee paying customers? Is the acquisition mix changing? And really putting it all together at the end of the day, are returns in the premium card space stable, increasing, decreasing? Because like, yes, value propositions are increasing, but fees are increasing, card usage is increasing. So I'm just trying to get a sense of that.
这个问题还是关于高端卡市场的竞争。但我更想聚焦在客户价值主张演变之后，对获客策略有何影响。吸引愿意付费的客户是否变得更昂贵？获客组合是否发生了变化？从整体来看，高端卡业务的回报率是在稳定、上升，还是下降？因为虽然客户价值在提升，但费用、卡片使用频率也都在上升。我就是想对这个大趋势有一个整体的判断。
Christophe Y. Le Caillec
So I can help you a little bit with that. The way this competition is materializing is that it's expanding the demand for premium products. So it's definitely giving us the opportunity to deploy more marketing dollars at very, very attractive returns. That's the way it's materializing, right? Because there are a lot more consideration now among the prospect population for premium products than there was, say, 10 years ago, where we were the only player in that space.
我可以帮你稍微解释一下。竞争带来的一个实际效果，是扩大了人们对高端产品的需求。这反而给了我们机会，在营销上投入更多资金，并获得非常可观的回报。这就是竞争显化的方式。因为现在有更多潜在客户会考虑高端卡产品，而不像十年前那样，我们是市场上唯一的参与者。
And every time Card Members look at or consider either Platinum Card or premium card, they consider the Platinum Card. It's almost inevitable. And so that opens up an opportunity for us to put an offer in front of them. So the biggest benefit for us here, like it's really
几乎每次当客户考虑白金卡或其他高端卡时，Platinum 卡都是他们考虑的选项之一，这几乎是不可避免的。这就给了我们一个机会，把合适的产品推荐给他们。因此，对我们来说最大的好处是……
hard to compare the ROI 10 years ago to the ROI today, but the level of marketing dollars, the quantity of marketing dollars we're deploying today is much bigger than what we were doing, say, 10 years ago. And I attribute a lot of that to a lot more activity in the marketplace, a lot more competition.
现在的投资回报率（ROI）和十年前相比其实很难一一对比，因为今天我们投放的营销预算规模比十年前要大得多。我认为这很大程度上得益于整个市场更加活跃，竞争也更加充分。
Operator
The next question is coming from Terry Ma of Barclays.
下一个问题来自巴克莱的 Terry Ma。
Terry Ma
I just wanted to ask about net card fee growth. It continues to be strong, coming in at 20% year-over-year this quarter. As we think about the go forward, should the Platinum refresh be kind of additive to that growth or just kind of sustain it as you lap some of the refreshes from last year?
我想问一下关于净卡费收入增长的问题。本季度同比增速依然很强劲，达到了 20%。展望未来，这次白金卡的刷新是否会进一步推动这个增长，还是说更多是用来维持当前水平，因为你们去年已经做过一些产品刷新了？
Christophe Y. Le Caillec
Yes. so it's a complicated dynamic, Terry. But you might remember at the beginning of the year, we said that you should expect the card fee growth rate to kind of like moderate in the balance of the year. We still believe that's going to happen. So you should expect to see that in Q3 and Q4. And given the previous conversations that we had about the timing of the Platinum fee increase, it's only sometimes in the new year in 2026 that you should see that inflection point and a bit more acceleration. But you should still expect some moderation in the back of this year in terms of that card fee growth rates.
是的，这确实是一个相对复杂的动态，Terry。你可能还记得年初我们就提到过，卡费收入的增长率在今年剩余时间里会有所“温和化”，我们目前仍然维持这一预期。所以你可以预期在第三季度和第四季度会看到一些增速放缓的迹象。考虑到我们之前也谈过白金卡年费上调的时点，这个增长的转折点和略微的加速，可能要到 2026 年初才会体现出来。但在今年下半年，你仍应预期卡费收入增速会有所放缓。
Operator
The next question is coming from Craig Maurer of FT Partners.
下一个问题来自 FT Partners 的 Craig Maurer。
Craig Jared Maurer
Financial Technology Partners LP
I wanted to -- competition aside and Amex is right to win aside, I wanted to ask about how perhaps the mix of new acquisition is changing. And the reason why I'm asking is, does the slowdown in travel spend put at risk the fantastic new acquisition channels you have with your co-brand partners like Marriott and Delta. Do we have to think about that at all when it comes to net new card growth?
抛开竞争问题以及“Amex 一定会胜出”不谈，我想问的是你们的新卡获客组合是否发生了一些变化。我之所以这么问，是因为旅行支出的放缓是否会影响你们通过联名合作伙伴（比如 Marriott 和 Delta）所建立的优秀获客渠道？我们在评估你们的净新增发卡量时，是否需要考虑这一点？
And just secondly, just quickly on the EPS guide. You had nice outperformance in EPS. But am I just reading it correctly that the projected increase in VCE spend as a percentage of revenue in the back half of the year, which seems to be related at least in part to the Platinum refresh is what's keeping you from raising the range?
第二个问题，关于 EPS 指引。你们的每股收益表现超出预期。但我想确认一下，是不是你们没有上调全年 EPS 区间，主要是因为预计下半年 VCE 支出占收入的比率会上升，而这部分上升至少部分源自白金卡的产品刷新？
Christophe Y. Le Caillec
Craig, under -- on the acquisition mix, there's been -- there's not been like a big change in terms of our mix over the past few quarters and like almost, I should say, over the past few years, right? And One way we're trying to characterize it for you is just by calling out the percentage of these new cards that are coming on a fee paying product, right, and has been in that 70% range for a few quarters now. And I don't really expect to see a change there. To your second question about the earnings per share and the VCE in the balance of the year. So listen, we're not giving guidance, specifically let alone quarter-by-quarter on the VCE ratio.
Craig，就新卡获客组合而言，过去几个季度乃至过去几年，我们的结构其实没有发生太大变化。我们有一个方式可以帮助你理解这个结构——那就是关注我们新增卡中有多少是收费型产品（fee paying product）。这个比例在过去几个季度都维持在大约 70%，我们也不预期这个比例会有明显变化。关于你第二个问题，也就是每股收益和下半年 VCE 的关系，我们没有对 VCE 比率提供具体指引，更不用说逐季度指引了。
There are just like so many moving parts here, and we're also lapping some product refreshes from the past. So the way I think about that VCE ratio over time, it's not new. It's just -- you should expect that VCE ratio to slightly tick up over time as more and more -- as the mix, not only in terms of acquisition, but in terms of engagement of the portfolio is trending a lot more towards premium product and fee paying product. So that's going to put a little bit of upward pressure on the VCE ratio. But that's as far as I would go in terms of commenting on where this is going to go in the balance of the year.
这个比率受到很多因素影响，而且我们还在对比去年同期的一些产品刷新节奏。从长期趋势来看，VCE 比率小幅上升其实是可以预期的。这不仅与新增卡片的结构有关，也和整个持卡组合的使用行为变化相关——现在更多是倾向高端产品和收费型产品。这自然会给 VCE 比率带来一定的上行压力。但关于下半年的具体走向，我目前也只能说到这个程度了。
Operator
Our final question is coming from Cris Kennedy of William Blair.
最后一个问题来自 William Blair 的 Cris Kennedy。
Cristopher David Kennedy
Just wanted to change the topic a little bit. You have the announcement with Coinbase and Amex Ventures does a lot of investing in the space. Can you just give your latest views on stablecoin and implementing blockchain technology into your tech stack?
我想稍微换个话题。你们最近宣布了与 Coinbase 的合作，同时 Amex Ventures 也在这一领域做了不少投资。你能谈谈你们目前对稳定币（stablecoin）以及将区块链技术整合进你们技术体系的最新看法吗？
Stephen Joseph Squeri
Yes. Well, let me just talk about sort of stablecoin. I think it's been a lot of conversation around stablecoin and cryptocurrencies and what have you. And I think when you start to look at digital currencies, we've got the cryptocurrencies, XRP, Bitcoin, Ethereum and things like that. I think that has sort of proven out that that's not really going to take the place of any fiat currency. It's more of a sort of an investment vehicle at this point. And I think as we've said for a long time now that when you think about digital currencies, you need to think about sort of stablecoins and you need to think about government digital currencies.
当然。我先谈谈稳定币。关于稳定币、加密货币等话题，外界一直讨论很多。数字货币包括像 XRP、比特币、以太坊等等，但这些已经被证明并不能真正取代法定货币，目前更多是一种投资工具。而我们一直以来的观点是：当你在思考数字货币时，应该更多考虑稳定币和央行数字货币（CBDC）。
And it looks like now, while there hasn't really been a lot of progress on government digital currencies, there has been a lot of activity, at least a lot of noise around stablecoins. And I think there is a role in the payment systems for stablecoins. There is a role in the store -- in the value system for cryptocurrencies. And I think when you look at what we did with Coinbase, as we see stablecoins, stablecoins, we believe, will be used for lots of cross-border transactions, small businesses, things like that. But remember, with stablecoins you are trapping that liquidity and you do need off-ramps.
目前央行数字货币的推进速度还不算快，但围绕稳定币的讨论和动作非常活跃。我认为稳定币在支付系统中是有用武之地的；而加密货币更多在价值存储体系中扮演角色。至于我们与 Coinbase 的合作，是基于我们认为稳定币未来将在跨境交易和小型企业支付中发挥作用。但要注意，使用稳定币会锁住一部分流动性，同时也必须有“出金通道”（off-ramp）。
And I think the partnership that we have with Coinbase does two things. Number one, it does provide that off-ramp. But number two, what they've decided to do from a rewards perspective is to allow you to earn digital currency. And obviously, they're one of the largest keepers of digital currencies. And so I think that's a really interesting thing. As we think about stablecoins a little bit into the future here, you could see this as a way for SMBs, large corporations to do cross-border transactions, especially when you are doing lots of cross-border transactions with the same group of people.
我们与 Coinbase 的合作有两个关键点：第一，它提供了这种“出金通道”；第二，在奖励机制方面，他们决定允许用户赚取数字货币作为回报。Coinbase 作为全球最大的数字货币托管机构之一，这一点非常有意义。展望未来，我们认为稳定币可能会成为中小企业甚至大型公司进行跨境支付的一种方式，尤其是在与同一批合作方进行频繁跨境交易的场景中。
You just -- you avoid all the currency conversion, makes it a lot easier to do business, I think, potentially cross-border. That's not a big sort of revenue driver for us, foreign currency exchange and currency revenue for us. But it is an opportunity, and it's one that we are seriously looking at and potentially to figure out how we think about either partnering or how we think about our own foray into stablecoins, especially for small businesses where we do have a large share. So I think there's a lot more to come here. I think the bill will be signed today in terms of overall regulation, and there's more to play out.
你可以省掉所有的货币兑换步骤，我认为这会让跨境业务变得更简单。虽然外汇兑换并不是我们主要的收入来源，但这是一个机遇，我们正在认真研究，包括是要通过合作方式，还是自己探索稳定币，尤其是针对我们占有较大市场份额的小型企业客户。因此，我认为这里还有很多后续发展空间。今天应该会有关于整体监管的法案签署，未来也会有更多动态。
But I think what you will see is companies like American Express, Visa and Mastercard being off-ramps for digital currencies. And I think that's an important part that we play. Will they replace the existing payment rails? No, they are not going to replace the existing payment rails. Are they a good proxy and a good change and a good alternative to ACH and Swift payments and wires and things like that? I think so. And the reason I don't believe they're going to replace what we have today is, what we have today is not broken. It provides lots of other benefits such as rewards.
但我认为你会看到，像 American Express、Visa 和 Mastercard 这样的公司将成为数字货币的“出金通道”，这将是我们在其中扮演的重要角色。它们是否会取代现有的支付网络？不会，它们不会取代当前的支付基础设施。但它们是否是 ACH、SWIFT 汇款等方式的一个良好替代？我认为是的。而我之所以不认为它们会替代我们现有系统，是因为我们现有的系统并没有“坏掉”，而且提供了很多额外优势，比如积分奖励。
It provides contingent liability in terms of lending, and it also provides lots of dispute resolution and things like that and tremendous acceptance. And it's just easy to use. So that's probably all I have to say on that, but it is something that we are working with, and we'll continue to monitor and just figure out what's the right entry point for us. But we felt and we're very happy about our partnership with Coinbase, and I think we're going to be able to do some good things with them.
它还能为信贷提供担保责任，也具备完善的纠纷解决机制，此外接受度极高，使用也非常便捷。所以关于这个话题我就说这些吧。这确实是我们正在参与和持续关注的领域，我们也在寻找适合自己的切入点。我们对与 Coinbase 的合作感到非常满意，并且相信我们能与他们一起做成一些有价值的事情。
Kartik Ramachandran
With that, we will bring the call to an end. Thank you again for joining today's call and for your continued interest in American Express. The IR team will be available for any follow-up questions.
至此我们结束今天的电话会议。再次感谢大家的参与以及对 American Express 的持续关注。如有后续问题，我们的投资者关系团队将随时为您提供支持。
Operator
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the webcast replay will be available on our Investor Relations website at ir.americanexpress.com shortly after the call. You can also access a digital replay of the call at (877) 660-6853 or (201) 612-7415, access code 13754529 after 1:00 p.m. Eastern Time on July 18 through July 25.
谢谢大家。各位嘉宾，本次电话会议的网络回放将在会议结束后不久上传至我们投资者关系网站 ir.americanexpress.com。您也可以在美东时间 7 月 18 日下午 1 点至 7 月 25 日期间，通过拨打 (877) 660-6853 或 (201) 612-7415，输入访问码 13754529 来收听数字回放。
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