2022-11-09 Thomas Peterffy.Wolfe Research Wealth Symposium
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
Good morning, everybody. So really excited for our next session with a man who really needs no introduction, Thomas Peterffy, Founder and Chairman of Interactive Brokers. Thomas is one of the first individuals to utilize computerized models and options pricing, really a pioneer in automated equity options and futures market making.
大家早上好。非常高兴迎来我们下一场环节的嘉宾，他无需过多介绍——Interactive Brokers 的创始人兼董事长 Thomas Peterffy。Thomas 是最早运用计算机模型进行期权定价的人之一，是真正的自动化股票期权和期货做市先驱。
Interactive, it's -- they're global leader amongst the technology-driven brokers. They have best-in-class KPIs, which many in this room are keenly aware of. But it's really a durable business model with a strong track record of success. So could not be more excited to have you here, Thomas.
Interactive 是科技驱动型券商中的全球领导者，拥有行业领先的关键绩效指标，这一点在座许多人都深有体会。它的商业模式极具韧性且成功记录斐然。因此，非常激动能够邀请您到来，Thomas。
And just for those newer to the Interactive's story, maybe just give a quick overview of Interactive, where you fit within both the retail and institutional ecosystem, and how is your value prop differentiated relative to some of the other peers in the space?
为了让初次接触 Interactive 故事的听众更好了解，能否请您简要介绍一下 Interactive 在零售和机构生态系统中的定位，以及贵公司相较同业的差异化价值主张？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
Thank you very much for having me here. It's my first time with you. And so about the company, IBKR is very different than other participants in the electronic brokerage space. This is due to the unique way we came to where we are today. I started this business as a market maker in options on the floor of the American Stock Exchange, 45 years ago.
非常感谢邀请我来到这里，这是我第一次参加贵会议。关于公司，IBKR 与电子经纪领域的其他参与者截然不同，这源于我们走到今天的独特历程。45 年前，我在美国证券交易所的大厅里以期权做市商身份创立了这项业务。
Having been a computer programmer before, I was always looking for ways to make the trading process more efficient with the use of computers. 10 years after having started the business, we were the largest fully automated market makers in the options world.
在此之前，我曾是一名计算机程序员，因此我一直在寻求利用计算机提升交易效率的方法。创办公司 10 年后，我们已成为全球最大的全自动期权做市商。
As electronic exchanges came to fore around the globe, we connected to all of them. And when the U.S. exchanges finally went electronic, around 2000 was the first one, the ISE and the others rapidly followed.
随着全球电子交易所相继出现，我们与所有这些交易所建立了连接。当美国交易所最终在 2000 年左右实现电子化时，ISE 率先上线，其他交易所也迅速跟进。
So after all the exchanges converted to computerized operation, we had a huge global market making system with nearly 20% of the global options volume. Of course, in those days, the global options volume was a fraction of what it is today.
当所有交易所都转入计算机化运营后，我们拥有了一个庞大的全球做市系统，占据近 20% 的全球期权交易量。当然，那时的全球期权交易量只是今天的很小一部分。
So in 1993, we added brokerage capability to our global market making network, which means that for market-making purposes, we are connected to all the electronic exchanges around the world. So we said, well, why not at brokerage?
1993 年，我们在全球做市网络中加入了经纪功能，这意味着就做市而言，我们已连接全球所有电子交易所。于是我们想，既如此，何不开展经纪业务？
Of course, we were not really smart about thinking about what the SEC is going to say about us being a market maker and the broker, but we kept the 2 things completely different except we use the same communication venues and all the memberships or all the exchanges around the world, thinking that the global demand -- the demand for a global broker will be great, but it wasn't, it still is \[ pretty weak ].
当然，我们当时并未深思 SEC 会如何看待我们既做市又做经纪。但除了共用通信渠道和全球各交易所会员资格外，我们把两项业务完全分离。我们曾以为全球经纪需求会非常旺盛，事实并非如此，直到今天需求仍相对低迷。
So market makers came into the -- came in and started buying retail order flow like YourBoss, and we had to make a choice. We had to start trading -- we had to decide whether to trade against our own orders or not to. So we thought the conflict would be too hard to explain, and we decided not to do it.
后来，其他做市商进入市场，开始像 YourBoss 那样购买零售订单流，我们不得不做出选择：是否与自己的订单对盘？我们认为这种冲突难以解释，因此决定不这么做。
So we closed down the market maker. And today, we are a pure brokerage with the distinction that we know all about the math and the plumbing on which markets run and still use many of the same systems we developed for the market maker. But we are using them now for our -- on our customers' behalf. So that's basically the short story.
于是我们关闭了做市业务。如今，我们是一家纯粹的经纪公司，优势在于深谙市场运作的数学原理和底层机制，并仍在使用许多为做市而开发的系统，只不过现在这些系统是为客户服务。简而言之，这就是我们的故事。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
And it's pretty clear, Thomas, based on your remarks that digital technology, clearly embedded in the DNA of the company, how does your tech stack compare with the competition? What are some of the capabilities in your mind that are most differentiated?
Thomas，很显然，从您的发言可以看出数字技术已深深嵌入公司基因。相比竞争对手，贵司的技术栈有何不同？在您看来，哪些能力最具差异化？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
So as I said, I was a computer programmer and then everybody I hired were computer programmers. So basically, still today, the leadership -- all the senior positions in the company are basically computer programmers or at least the background they come through.
如我所说，我曾是一名计算机程序员，后来我雇用的每个人也都是程序员。因此直到今天，公司领导层——所有高级职位——基本上都是程序员出身，或者至少具有相关背景。
And we always viewed ourselves as a software developer focusing on developing applications for trading and brokerage. While our competitors usually come from a sales background. We are strong on tech and relatively weak on sales, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but it is the fact.
我们始终把自己视为软件开发商，专注于开发交易和经纪应用。而我们的竞争对手通常出身销售领域。我们在技术上很强，但在销售方面相对薄弱，说来有些惭愧，但事实如此。
From the beginning, it was our plan to build a platform for the most demanding institutional customers and make it available for everyone who wants to use it since it's automated, the additional cost for an additional customer is negligible. So it costs us very little to have additional folks and that what explains our profit margin of 68%, which is pretty high.
从一开始，我们就计划为最苛刻的机构客户打造一套平台，并向所有有意使用者开放。由于系统自动化，新增客户的边际成本几乎为零。因此，服务更多客户对我们成本极小，也正因如此，我们的利润率高达 68%，相当可观。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
And so as we think about the strength of those margins, and just maybe the competitive landscape and the barriers to entry, you've seen really unparalleled account growth, client growth across the platform. It begs the question, why haven't other competitors stepped in, in a more meaningful way to try to replicate what you've built?
既然利润率如此强劲，再考虑到竞争格局和进入壁垒，贵平台的账户和客户增长无与伦比。问题是，为何其他竞争者没有更有力地介入并复制你们的成果？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
Because they are salesman. So the new competitors did emerge along the way, but I think they are too impatient and want to get rich quickly. So as soon as they get to a profitable operation, they sell themselves to the dominant players too soon to have developed the unique platform.
因为他们是销售型的。确实出现了一些新的竞争者，但我认为他们太急于求成，想快速发财。一旦业务盈利，他们就过早地把公司卖给行业巨头，还来不及打造独特的平台。
I do not expect big changes in this business going forward other than the idea that everybody with a banking or money transmitter license now wants to become broker. But going after the low-hanging fruit, they want to get the simple retail accounts and provide only vanilla services.
展望未来，我不认为行业会有巨大变化，除了如今持有银行或支付牌照的机构都想做经纪。但他们只想摘取低垂果实，争取简单的零售账户，只提供基础服务。
We are just as busy coding as we have always been, but we are now focusing more and more an out-of-the-way corners of the market and developing specialized tools for different type of customers. This and our much lower cost structure is what makes -- what sets us apart.
我们仍然像过去一样忙于编码，只是现在更多聚焦于市场的边缘领域，为不同类型客户开发专用工具。这一点，加上我们远低于同业的成本结构，使我们与众不同。
We keep on building the most versatile and sophisticated platform for the most discerning clients. But since it is all automated, we can make it available to everybody free of charge. So we have no platform fees. If you just want to open an account, put in some money, it doesn't cost you anything. Except we charge commissions. Trading isn't really free. Surprise.
我们会继续打造功能最丰富、最复杂的平台，服务最挑剔的客户。但由于平台完全自动化，人人都能免费使用——我们不收平台费。你只需开户、存入资金即可，完全不用付费。当然，我们收取佣金；交易并非真正免费，意外吧。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
Well said. The other big differentiator, and you touched on this a little bit, Thomas, is your international footprint. We've been following the broker space for a considerable time.
说得好。另一大差异化因素——您稍早也有所提及——是贵司的国际布局。我们长期关注经纪行业。
Many have tried and failed to really expand internationally. What's contributed to the -- your success expanding abroad? And what are some of the newer geographies that you might look to expand into from here?
许多公司在国际扩张方面屡屡受挫。贵司在海外取得成功的关键因素是什么？未来您考虑进入哪些新地区？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
So again, the answer is automation. Different jurisdictions around the world promulgate very special rules and regulations. This drives most brokers crazy because everybody really is trying to do the same thing. Our lives would be a heck of a lot simpler if -- and our customers' expenses would be much, much lower if regulatory requirements are the same all over the world.
再次强调，答案在于自动化。全球各司法辖区都会发布形形色色的专门法规，这让大多数经纪商头疼不已，因为大家本质上都在做同样的事。如果全球监管要求统一，工作会轻松得多，客户成本也会大幅降低。
But no, regulators want power and so they introduce their special wrinkles in the rules so that the order-taking, execution, clearing, settlement and reporting compliance and tax functions and the rules governing them are all slightly different from place to place.
然而事实并非如此——监管机构希望维持自身权力，于是为规则增添“褶皱”，导致接单、成交、清算、结算及合规报送与税务等流程及其规则在各地略有差异。
Since we have this all automated, it's not so difficult for us to tinker with the rules and to modify our programs for each different jurisdiction to comply with those special wrinkles.
由于我们实现了全流程自动化，因此可针对各地特殊要求轻松调整规则并修改程序以确保合规。
While our peers when they want to set up for a different jurisdiction, they have to build a different team who really understands the rules there and then supervising them is not so easy because, of course, the supervisors don't know what the difference in the rules are. So that's the reason.
同行若想进入新司法辖区，必须打造了解当地规则的全新团队，而管理这些团队并不容易，因为管理层往往不了解规则差异所在。这就是原因。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
That's great, Thomas. And I'm keen to unpack the sources of growth, but before then, I just want to take a step back and maybe just talk about the operating environment. Certainly a challenging macro backdrop for many of your clients.
太好了，Thomas。我很想深入探讨增长来源，但在此之前，想先退一步谈谈经营环境。对你们的许多客户来说，目前的宏观背景无疑充满挑战。
How is that impacting activity levels? And given your unique footprint globally, maybe if you can provide some perspective on what you're seeing in the U.S. versus abroad?
这对客户的交易活跃度有何影响？鉴于你们遍布全球的独特布局，可否谈谈你们在美国与海外市场看到的差异？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
So these differences, for us nothing much has changed a lot. We just lying ahead, developing our platform further as our momentum slowly increases. When we have a relatively large accumulation of new accounts, in a geography where we are servicing accounts, but we are not physically present. We are not registered there, we get these accounts via the Internet.
就这些差异而言，对我们来说并没有太大变化。我们只是继续向前，随着动能逐步增强，进一步开发平台。当某个地区出现大量新增账户，而我们虽已为当地客户提供服务却尚未实地设点、未在当地注册时，这些账户往往通过互联网开立。
So -- but then in order to really grow in that geography, we have to offer the local market. And so then we go there and we either become members of the local exchange or we do it through a corresponding relationship. We develop our interface to it at the currency to our repertoire that is currently 24 currencies.
但若想在该地区真正实现增长，就必须提供当地市场接入。因此我们会进入当地，要么成为本地交易所会员，要么通过代理关系接入。我们为此开发接口，并把该地区货币纳入我们目前涵盖 24 种货币的体系。
In other words, you can open account with us in one of 24 currencies and trade in every other currency seamlessly. So such developments are taking place right now in some smaller Far Eastern jurisdictions and to some extent, in the Middle East.
换言之，客户可用 24 种任意一种货币开户，并无缝交易其他所有货币。目前，我们正在一些较小的远东司法辖区，以及在一定程度上的中东地区推进此类布局。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
As we think about the sources of organic growth and account growth, you cited a 30% account growth target. I mean, for context, that's many multiples above, I would say, even what some of your peers aspire to and I was hoping you could speak to what are the building blocks supporting that 30% growth rate in the context of the TAM, different markets, deepening client penetration? Any context would be really helpful.
谈到有机增长和账户增速，你提到过 30% 的账户增长目标。为了让大家有个概念，这一数字甚至是同行所期望水平的数倍。希望你能谈谈，在整体可服务市场规模、不同市场以及加深客户渗透率的背景下，支撑 30% 增长率的关键要素有哪些？任何背景信息都将大有帮助。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
So a natural account growth of 10% to 20% that comes to us via word of mouth when the markets go down, that natural growth is closer to 10%. When it goes up, it's closer to 20%. Now to this, we add our sales force that generates new accounts, and that's about the other 10%. But it's a very, very lumpy growth.
自然账户增长率为 10% 至 20%，主要靠口碑传播。市场下行时，自然增速接近 10%；市场上行时，则接近 20%。在此基础上，我们的销售团队还能带来约 10% 的新增账户，但这一增速非常跳跃。
So it's really hard to -- I mean it's easy to project it way forward because it's about another 10%. But nearby, it can be very, very low or very, very high because when a new, say, introducing broker comes in, it can suddenly be a huge account growth suddenly and then after all the accounts came on to us, it slows down to a trickle, and then we have to get the next one. And so that's how it works.
因此，长期预测相对容易——大约再增 10%——但短期波动很大：比如有新的介绍经纪商加入时，账户数可能瞬间激增；待这些账户全部迁移完毕，增速又会骤降，我们便需再寻下一个机会。这就是实际运作方式。
We believe that under the platform that brings investors and marketplaces together, all over the world, all over the globe, we will have to -- we will optimize the allocation of capital and resources, and it is our job to develop the best tools and capabilities to facilitate that.
我们相信，通过这一连接全球投资者与各交易市场的平台，我们将优化资本与资源配置，而开发最佳工具与能力以促成这一目标，就是我们的使命。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
And one of the benefits that you've touted about your diversified model and your diversified client base, you can pivot, so to speak to where the puck is heading. And you noted that you're currently focusing on customer acquisition efforts within the hedge fund channel, a little bit less sensitive to some of the market volatility admittedly.
正如你所强调的，多元化的业务模式和客户基础使得你们能够迅速转向“冰球将要滑向的方向”。你提到目前正在对冲基金渠道发力获客，这一群体的确对市场波动的敏感度相对较低。
Now how do you see over the long term, Thomas, your client mix evolving over time, just given some of the real momentum that you've seen on the institutional side in particular?
那么从长期来看，Thomas，鉴于你们在机构端尤其展现出的强劲动能，你认为客户结构未来将如何演变？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
Yes. Well, so first, to address the overall population, we believe that 1% to 2% of the population globally is sophisticated financially and has the where we told to have a brokerage account. So we aim at getting 1%, which should be 80 million people, and we hope to get there in the next 15 to 20 years. And we will -- at the rate of 30%, we will get there.
是的。首先从总体人口角度看，我们认为全球大约有 1% 至 2% 的人具备较高的金融素养，也具备开设经纪账户的能力。我们的目标是拿下 1%——约 8,000 万人，并期望在未来 15 至 20 年达到这一规模。按照 30% 的年增速，我们有信心实现这一目标。
这个假设有些简单。
Now as far as institutional accounts, hedge funds, of course, are very important because the 1 hedge fund makes up for -- it's equal in revenues to maybe specifically exactly 67 regular retail accounts. But that's a small hedge fund. The large hedge fund is equal to hundreds or maybe even thousands of retail accounts. So.
至于机构账户，对冲基金显然至关重要；一家对冲基金带来的收入相当于大约 67 个普通零售账户——那还只是小型基金。大型对冲基金的价值可抵数百、甚至上千个零售账户。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
And one of the big drivers, enabling you to sustain that 30% growth rate, even in this challenging market, are your relationships on the introducing broker side. I know you alluded to wins. I think there are 2 larger institutions that you're partnered with or have partnered with quite recently.
在当前充满挑战的市场环境下，支撑你们保持 30% 增速的一大动力，是与介绍经纪商的合作关系。我知道你提到过一些斩获，据我所知，近期你们与两家大型机构达成了合作。
How do these client accounts compare to the typical account that's on the IBKR platform? And how is the pipeline building? Are there any metrics that you can cite supporting the sustained growth within that channel?
这些客户账户与 IBKR 平台上的典型账户相比有何不同？目前的储备管线建设情况如何？能否提供一些数据，以佐证该渠道的持续增长？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
Yes. So Preqin, they have -- they usually measure the penetration of different brokers in the hedge fund space and for the third year in a row, we have added more accounts. I don't know if we added more accounts, but our rate of growth has been higher for 3 years in a row than that of any other prime broker.
是的。Preqin 通常会统计各家券商在对冲基金领域的渗透率，连续三年，我们新增账户数量（至少增速）都高于任何其他主经纪商。
And so that brought us today to the sixth place and fifth place is Credit Suisse, and I'm really sorry to say that they probably will not be a fifth place next year. And the next one is Bank of America, and I don't think they really care enough about this business. So I think that we will be #4 in this current year or the following the year.
因此，目前我们排在第六位，第五位是 Credit Suisse，很遗憾地说，它们明年大概率不会再守住第五。再往上是 Bank of America，我觉得他们对这块业务并不上心。所以我预计，今年或明年我们就能升至第四名。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
It's a space where I think people who cited the fact that you are the #6 prime broker globally in terms of the number of funds that you service. As we think about the gap between #6 and #4, I mean, I know you conveyed it modestly, Thomas, it's a fairly wide gap between you and Bank of America and not unachievable, but...
有人指出，就所服务基金数量而言，你们是全球第六大主经纪商。当我们考虑第六与第四的差距时——Thomas，您说得很谦逊——你们与 Bank of America 之间仍有相当距离，但并非不可逾越……
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
It's not that wide. I think the difference is 300 accounts, 300 hedge funds.
差距并没有那么大。我认为只差 300 个账户，也就是 300 只对冲基金。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
Okay. It's -- fair enough. I guess like, from my perspective, as I think about the gaps and what precludes you from maybe continuing to gain share, and these are things that you've cited as well, it's the absence of OTC trading capabilities, not have...
好的——可以理解。我在思考这些差距以及阻碍你们继续提升市占率的因素，这些也是您提到过的，比如缺乏场外交易能力，无法……
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
Right, right. So there are a number of things that we do not offer. And maybe the biggest amongst them is that we do not offer OTC products. So -- but that cuts 2 ways. The reason we do not offer OTC products is because we do not want to get into the counter-party exposure issue because we have lived through '87, and we have lived through 2008. And I said to myself that after all, it's my money, I'm not going to risk it on that.
没错，没错。确实有一些我们不提供的东西，也许最大的一点就是我们不提供场外交易产品。但这是一把双刃剑。我们不做场外交易的原因，是因为我们不想卷入对手方风险；毕竟我们经历过 1987 年，也经历过 2008 年。我对自己说，归根结底这是我的钱，我不会拿它去冒那个险。
And therefore, I think when the next crisis comes, some hedge funds, we will think where [ I better ] Interactive Brokers has $11 billion of equity and no counter-party exposure.
因此，我认为下一次危机到来时，一些对冲基金会想：“我最好把资金放在 Interactive Brokers，那家公司拥有 110 亿美元自有资金，而且没有对手方风险。”
So if the situation becomes kind of hard to see where the -- where all the dead bodies are buried, then maybe we should have some of our assets with Interactive Brokers instead of Goldman or Morgan Stanley, right?
所以，如果形势变得混乱，难以看清“尸体埋在哪里”，那么也许我们应该把部分资产放在 Interactive Brokers，而不是 Goldman 或 Morgan Stanley，对吧？
So I think that's an important consideration. Other things, the other services is basically these kinds of meetings, analysts. And that we don't do at the moment, but we may consider either building our own capabilities or get into some sort of joint venture.
因此，我认为这是一个重要考量。其他服务方面，比如这种与分析师的会面，目前我们并未提供，但我们可能考虑自行建立能力，或与他人合资。
And what is the other one? It's -- you remember this TV ad that the guy comes up and he says, we have these 3 things: #1, #2, and he doesn't remember the #3. That's just what happened to me.
还有另一个是什么来着？就是……你记得那个电视广告吗？那人上来就说我们有三件事：第一、第二，然后他想不起第三件。我刚才就遇到这种情况。
Unknown Attendee
未知与会者
Cap intro?
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
Cap intro, right. We don't do cap intro. That's not really true. So we have Interactive Brokers marketplace where we display our hedge funds who want to be displayed, and we display their performance, and we display whatever information they want to provide us to display.
是的，Cap intro。我们不做 Cap intro。其实也不完全准确。我们有一个 Interactive Brokers marketplace，愿意展示的对冲基金可以在上面露脸，我们会展示它们的业绩，以及它们希望我们展示的其他信息。
And so our accounts or anybody else can come on to our platform and look through and look at their performance. And if they want to contact them, they can. But we do not really get them into a room together with the hedge funds.
因此，我们的客户或任何其他人都可以登陆平台查看这些基金及其表现，若想联系基金方也可以。但我们并不会把投资者与对冲基金撮合到同一个房间里。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
Well, that's actually a great segue just for -- we've had a number of the RIAs also present at the conference, after all this a Wealth Symposium. Maybe you can speak to your RIA marketplace offering, how is the value prop differentiated there as well?
这倒是个很好的引入——本次财富研讨会上有不少 RIA 也到场。能否介绍一下你们面向 RIA 的 marketplace 产品，它的价值主张有何差异化？
And one topic that's come up is the Schwab Ameritrade clearing conversion, maybe driving some displacement and an opportunity to take market share?
另一个话题是 Schwab 与 Ameritrade 清算系统的整合，或许会带来客户迁移，也给你们争取市占率的机会？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
Yes. So Again, it comes from the automation. So we are much less expensive. First of all, RIAs are the big firms basically get to keep on the average about half of what they produce. With us, they get to keep 100% of what they produce.
没错，本质上还是自动化带来的优势，因此我们的成本更低。首先，大型公司里的 RIA 通常只能留住自己创造收益的大约一半；在我们这里，他们可以保留 100% 的收益。
If independent IRAs come on to our platform, we do not take anything from them. And we have no platform charges. We have no custodial fees. The -- our commission is smaller than what I venture to guess them what their customers have to give up to the market makers when the orders get sold to market makers.
独立 RIA 入驻我们的平台，我们一分钱也不抽取，也没有平台费、托管费。我们的佣金低于他们把订单卖给做市商时客户所付出的隐形成本。
And so they can -- to the extent that they are more nimble advisers and they maybe sell short. We have our short availability displayed online all the time. How many shares we have and what it would cost to borrow and you can borrow it online, you don't have to call us.
因此，那些操作灵活、可能会做空的顾问，可以随时查看我们线上公布的可卖空股票数量及借贷成本，并可直接在线借券，无需电话沟通。
Other firms like it when they -- when the clients have to call them because they basically know from client to client, how much they can really charge because when it's a big client who is very knowledgeable, they charge very little, when it's a small client who maybe it's their first or second time of ever trying to do a short sale, they charge them 5x or 6x as much as they really should.
其他公司喜欢让客户打电话，因为这样他们能因人定价：懂行的大客户收费很低，第一次或第二次尝试做空的小客户则会被收取应有费用的五六倍。
But -- so we don't do any of that. And partly, we don't do it because we don't spend the amount of money that it would take to have that sort of personnel and partly we believe that on the long run, the better break we give to our customers, the more likely they are to be profitable, and we like accounts growing with us. So that's important.
而我们完全不玩这些花样，一方面因为我们不会投入钱去养那样的团队；另一方面我们相信，从长远看，给客户更多实惠，他们更容易盈利，而盈利账户会跟随我们一起成长，这对我们至关重要。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
That's a great perspective. The other piece I wanted to unpack is around the account economics. You alluded earlier to the hedge fund multiplier of 67x relative to your traditional retail client. It might be helpful just to give some perspective on the economics, how they differ across the hedge fund client versus active trader versus traditional retail?
非常好的视角。我还想深入探讨账户经济学这一块。您之前提到，对冲基金客户相当于传统零售客户的 67 倍。如果能说明一下不同客户类型——对冲基金客户、活跃交易者和传统零售客户——在经济效益上的差异，会很有帮助。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
So for us, this is only for us. The hedge fund, as I said before, the average hedge fund on our platform, and there are many accounts that call themselves hedge funds, but they are less than \$1 million in the account. So overall, our average hedge fund has \$5 million. But that includes some very large ones and some very tiny ones.
就我们而言，仅针对我们自身的平台来说：正如我之前所说，平台上自称为对冲基金的账户很多，其中不少账户资产不足 100 万美元。综合计算，我们的平均对冲基金账户规模为 500 万美元，其中既有非常大的账户，也有非常小的账户。
But on the average, an average hedge fund account is worth 67 retail accounts and the average proprietary trading account is worth 10 retail accounts. So that's roughly the comparison and a retail account is -- an introducing broker account is very roughly 0.7 retail accounts. I mean, individual accounts.
平均而言，一个对冲基金账户的价值相当于 67 个零售账户；一个自营交易账户相当于 10 个零售账户。大致对比就是这样；至于介绍经纪商账户，大约等于 0.7 个零售账户——我是指个人账户。
I don't like this word retail because many of the people who have individual accounts have many millions of dollars and they trade very often. And they are really serious professionals. They are basically the core constituency that we started with, the people who were my friends on the floor when I was a market maker, they were market makers and some of them are still alive. And they are still trading.
我并不喜欢“零售”这个词，因为许多个人账户持有人拥有数百万美元资产，交易频繁，都是非常专业的交易者。他们基本上是我们创业时的核心群体——当年我在交易大厅做市时的朋友们，他们本身也是做市商，其中一些人至今仍在世，也仍在交易。
And some -- so some younger people came along with, generally maybe their children or younger brothers or cousins who took over for them, and they are still basically professional traders.
后来，一些年轻人加入进来，通常是他们的子女、弟弟或堂表兄弟接手了这些账户，他们依旧基本上是职业交易者。
Unknown Analyst
匿名分析师
I wish someone had passed down those capabilities to myself. But well, the other piece I wanted to touch on is just the margin loan opportunity. You've had tremendous success growing the margin book.
真希望有人把那些技能传授给我。不过，我还想谈谈保证金贷款的机会。你们在扩大保证金贷款规模方面取得了巨大成功。
Given the robust account growth, the 30% bogey that you've cited, is it reasonable for us to underwrite comparable growth in margin balances, assuming or underwriting a more normalized backdrop? I believe your margin balances have grown at a 20% CAGR over the last 3 years. How should we think about the growth in margin relative to that growth in accounts?
鉴于账户强劲增长，以及你们提到的 30% 目标，在较为正常的环境下，假设进行类似增速的保证金余额预测是否合理？据我了解，过去 3 年你们的保证金余额复合年增长率约为 20%。相较于账户增长，保证金余额的增长应如何理解？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
So we -- our margin rates are 0.5% to 1.5% above Fed fund rates. And they are -- you know we float with Fed funds. And that when Fed funds rates were near 0, then of course, our highest margin rate was 1.5%, while Schwab and Ameritrade and Fidelity were at 4%, 5%, 6%.
我们的保证金利率比联邦基金利率高 0.5% 至 1.5%，并随之浮动。当联邦基金利率接近 0 时，我们的最高保证金利率只有 1.5%，而 Schwab、Ameritrade 和 Fidelity 的利率则在 4%、5%、6%。
So as the Fed fund rates are not rising. So currently, we are at what, 3% and 3.25%. So a 5.25% is our highest margin rate and 4.25% is our lowest. But that is still roughly half of what other folks charge. So we could charge higher, but -- and we are often asked about that why we charge so low if we could charge higher and it will still be the best deal.
如今联邦基金利率有所上升，目前大约在 3% 至 3.25% 之间，因此我们的最高保证金利率为 5.25%，最低为 4.25%。这依旧仅为其他同行收费的大约一半。我们本可以收更高的利率，人们常问为何不这样做，因为即便提高仍是最划算的。
And the answer is that we have to provide a really compelling deal for people to bring people over from other brokers because people really are very -- they don't like to move. So it's a very sticky business. Once you get an account, you keep that account and you really, really have to screw up and make the account angry to -- for them to change.
原因是我们必须提供极具吸引力的方案，才能让客户从其他券商转移过来。客户往往极为黏性，不愿轻易搬家。一旦开设账户，他们通常会长期保留，除非我们严重失误、惹怒客户，他们才会更换券商。
So these low margin rates are basically the way to try to get new accounts. Now as when the market goes down, of course, much of the leverage comes out of the market. And so in the last 6 months, our margin loans have actually decreased by about 15%. The total margin loans went from \$44 billion to maybe \$40 billion.
因此，较低的保证金利率本质上是为了吸引新客户。当然，市场下行时杠杆会大幅收缩。在过去 6 个月里，我们的保证金贷款实际减少了约 15%，总额从 440 亿美元降至约 400 亿美元。
Unknown Analyst
未知分析师
One of the helpful offsets is certainly higher rates. And while you're certainly more generous than most in that regard, Thomas, it might be helpful just to provide some perspective on the overall rate sensitivity of Interactive Brokers?
一个有利的抵消因素当然是更高的利率。虽然在这方面你显然比大多数人都更慷慨，Thomas，但如果你能就 Interactive Brokers 整体对利率的敏感度提供一些看法，那会很有帮助吗？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
So as far as interest on cash, idle cash, we pay 0.5% under Fed funds to clients who have more than \$100,000 of volume in their account and more than \$10,000 of cash. In the -- on the first \$10,000, we pay nothing. If people have, say, \$50,000 we pay them half of Fed funds minus 50.
就现金利息而言，对闲置现金，我们向账户成交量超过 100,000 美元且现金余额超过 10,000 美元的客户支付比联邦基金利率低 50 个基点的利息。首 10,000 美元不计息。如果客户例如有 50,000 美元余额，我们支付其联邦基金利率减 50 个基点的一半。
If they have \$80,000, we pay them 80% of Fed funds minus 50. If they have \$100,000 or more, we pay them half Fed funds minus 50 other than on the first \$10,000, where we pay 0. Well, that's much, much, much better than everybody else pays.
如果他们有 80,000 美元，我们支付联邦基金利率的 80% 减 50 个基点。如果他们有 100,000 美元或更多，我们支付联邦基金利率的一半减 50 个基点，但首 10,000 美元部分利息为 0。嗯，这比其他所有机构支付的都要好得多。
It's better than any bank pays because it's -- as soon as you get the next dollar in your account immediately you get interest on that and other brokers like it to sweep your account into money market funds, but then you have to, of course, before you would use the money, you have to be withdraw it from the money market account.
这比任何银行给的都好，因为——只要你的账户里多出一美元，你马上就能获得利息。而其他券商往往把资金划转到货币市场基金，可在你使用资金前，当然必须先把钱从货币市场基金中取出。
And so eventually, you grow tired of withdrawing and putting it back and withdrawing. And so we basically leave your money idle in your account and you get very little interest.
时间久了，你会厌倦这种取出、再放回、再取出的过程。因此我们基本上让你的资金闲置在账户里，而你获得的利息却微乎其微。
Unknown Analyst
未知分析师
That's great. I mean, I honestly wish we could be chatting even more, Thomas. I have a long list of questions here, but I'm going to have to limit it to just 1 remaining 1 given our time constraints. I really wanted to get your perspective on business threats.
太好了。我真希望我们能多聊一会儿，Thomas。我这儿还有一长串问题，但由于时间关系，我只能再问最后一个。我很想听听你对业务风险的看法。
We had talked earlier about the strength of your pretax margins north of 60%, at 68% to be more precise. What do you see as the greatest threats to the IBKR model, whether it's like fintech disintermediation from new entrants, increasing technology or regulatory burden, you look like you're not losing sleep over anything. You look well rested, but any perspective you can share?
我们之前谈到你们超过 60% 、精确到 68% 的税前利润率。你认为 IBKR 模式面临的最大威胁是什么？是来自新晋金融科技公司的去中介化，还是不断增加的技术或监管负担？看起来你对此毫不担忧，气色很好。有什么看法可以分享吗？
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
I was up much in the elections until \[indiscernible].
在选举期间我熬了很多夜，直到 \[听不清]。
Unknown Analyst
未知分析师
You and me both, sadly.
可悲的是，我也是。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
So to tell you, frankly, I think it's clear sailing. I don't see anything. I mean, I generally worry about systemic issues. But as I said before, given our situation that we have no counter-party credit risk, and our equity keeps growing because we retain all of our earnings, except for the \[indiscernible] dividend we pay.
坦率地说，我认为一切顺风顺水。我看不到什么威胁。我通常担心系统性风险。但正如我之前所说，我们没有对手方信用风险，而且除了我们支付的 \[听不清] 股息外，我们保留了所有盈利，因而股本不断增长。
And so now we have \$11 billion. So I think we -- some people may think -- I certainly think that Interactive Brokers is the safest broker to be with. And even in a crisis, the thing that does worry me is the grid, the electronic grid, if that goes down, we are in big trouble.
现在我们拥有 110 亿美元。所以我认为——也许有人也这么认为——Interactive Brokers 是最安全的券商。即使在危机中，我唯一担心的是电网——如果电网瘫痪，我们就会陷入大麻烦。
Unknown Analyst
未知分析师
Great. Well, a great way to end it. Thomas, thanks so much for being here. Really appreciate it. It was a real pleasure.
太好了，这是个很好的结尾。Thomas，非常感谢你来到这里。真的非常感激，聊得很愉快。
Thomas Peterffy Founder & Chairman
Thomas Peterffy 创始人兼董事长
Thank you very much for having me and for listening today. Thank you.
非常感谢你的邀请，也感谢今天大家的聆听。谢谢。
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