SJ: I actually think there's actually very little distinction between an artist and a scientist or engineer of the highest calibre. I've never had a distinction in my mind between those two types of people. They've just been to me people who pursue different paths but basically kind of headed to the same goal which is to express something of what they perceive to be the truth around them so that others can benefit by it.

SJ：我其实认为，最高水平的艺术家与科学家或工程师之间几乎没有区别。在我看来，我从未将这两类人区分开来。他们只是走着不同的道路，但基本上都朝着同一个目标努力，那就是表达他们所感知到的真理，让别人从中受益。

DM: And the artistry is in the elegance of the solution, like chess playing or mathematics?

DM：那么这种艺术性体现在解决方案的优雅上吗，就像下棋或数学那样？

SJ: No. I think the artistry is in having an insight into what one sees around them. Generally putting things together in a way no one else has before and finding a way to express that to other people who don't have that insight so they can get some of the advantage of that insight that makes them feel a certain way or allows them to do a certain thing. I think that a lot of the folks on the Macintosh team were capable of doing that and did exactly that. If you study these people a little bit more what you'll find is that in this particular time, in the 70's and the 80's the best people in computers would have normally been poets and writers and musicians. Almost all of them were musicians. A lot of them were poets on the side. They went into computers because it was so compelling. It was fresh and new. It was a new medium of expression for their creative talents. The feelings and the passion that people put into it were completely indistinguishable from a poet or a painter. Many of the people were introspective, inward people who expressed how they felt about other people or the rest of humanity in general into their work, work that other people would use. People put a lot of love into these products, and a lot of expression of their appreciation came to these things. It's hard to explain.

SJ：不，我认为艺术性在于对周围事物的深刻洞察。通常是以一种别人从未尝试过的方式把事物组合在一起，并找到一种方法向那些没有这种洞察力的人表达，从而让他们也能获得那种感受或者能够做某件事。我认为Macintosh团队中的许多人正是具备并实现了这种能力。如果你更仔细地研究这些人，你会发现，在70年代和80年代，计算机领域最优秀的人本来往往是诗人、作家和音乐家，几乎全都是音乐家，很多人还兼职写诗。他们进入计算机领域是因为那实在太吸引人，新鲜而独特，是他们展现创意才能的新媒介。人们在其中投入的情感和热情，与诗人或画家完全无异。许多人内省、内向，把自己对他人或整个人类的感受融入到他们的作品中，而这些作品正是供别人使用的。人们对这些产品倾注了大量的爱，而这种感激之情也充分体现出来。这真的难以形容。